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I apologise in advance if the question is stu

gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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10/15/2011 3:50:48 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
The countries like Somalia, the most corrupt African nation, with borderline anarchy and urgent food crises, well, do these countries request peacekeeping forces from the UN? Or would they see it as an infringement of its sovereignity?
JuiceSqueeze
Posts: 109
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10/15/2011 5:03:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/15/2011 3:50:48 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
The countries like Somalia, the most corrupt African nation, with borderline anarchy and urgent food crises, well, do these countries request peacekeeping forces from the UN? Or would they see it as an infringement of its sovereignity?

somalia does not have a uniform government and is thus incapable of formally requesting peacekeeping forces.

though the UN presence in somalia has been nothing short of disastrous. they sit and do nothing like in lebanon/kosovo/congo/sudan etc.

real problem is the AU "peacekeepers" who come in and kill everyone in their path, then leave and say al-shabaab is toast lalalalalala.

120 killed last week in suicide bombing by islamists.

UN is a joke and so is peacekeeping. US needs to stop footing the bill.
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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10/15/2011 7:25:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/15/2011 5:03:56 AM, JuiceSqueeze wrote:
At 10/15/2011 3:50:48 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
The countries like Somalia, the most corrupt African nation, with borderline anarchy and urgent food crises, well, do these countries request peacekeeping forces from the UN? Or would they see it as an infringement of its sovereignity?

somalia does not have a uniform government and is thus incapable of formally requesting peacekeeping forces.

Though it does have a transitional government, and it optimistic about national elections in 2012, and is present in the UN (probably as an observer state though), if it does say that, suppose. Raises a motion for UN to send peacekeeping forces in order to conduct the elections, well, it is sensible, but would it be considered infringement of sovereignity?

If it helps, I was the delegate of Somalia in a model UN, and was going to raise this demand, But got confused if I would be going against the general policy. Since it shows... Non faith on the present govt. And would be non delegate like for me. Would it have been?

though the UN presence in somalia has been nothing short of disastrous. they sit and do nothing like in lebanon/kosovo/congo/sudan etc.

Yap that's true. But just because something has been unsuccessful in past does not mean it would not be successful ever. The issue just needs to be brought in front, it needs sponsors, in layman terms.

real problem is the AU "peacekeepers" who come in and kill everyone in their path, then leave and say al-shabaab is toast lalalalalala.

120 killed last week in suicide bombing by islamists.

UN is a joke and so is peacekeeping. US needs to stop footing the bill.

US does not send peacekeeping forces to Somalia, not after the unsuccessful UNOSOM 1 where a few American soldiers were killed.
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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10/15/2011 11:32:20 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/15/2011 3:50:48 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
The countries like Somalia, the most corrupt African nation, with borderline anarchy and urgent food crises, well, do these countries request peacekeeping forces from the UN? Or would they see it as an infringement of its sovereignity?

Somalia, with Anarchy, is actually better off than most African Nations...
President of DDO
gerrandesquire
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10/15/2011 12:06:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/15/2011 11:32:20 AM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 10/15/2011 3:50:48 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
The countries like Somalia, the most corrupt African nation, with borderline anarchy and urgent food crises, well, do these countries request peacekeeping forces from the UN? Or would they see it as an infringement of its sovereignity?


Somalia, with Anarchy, is actually better off than most African Nations...

Yeah sure, most corrupt, the poorest one in the entire world, crippled by famines and aid not reaching even half of the people it was intended for, how is it better than other African nations? It has THE worst peace rating.
gerrandesquire
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10/15/2011 12:10:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/15/2011 12:06:27 PM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 10/15/2011 11:32:20 AM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 10/15/2011 3:50:48 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
The countries like Somalia, the most corrupt African nation, with borderline anarchy and urgent food crises, well, do these countries request peacekeeping forces from the UN? Or would they see it as an infringement of its sovereignity?


Somalia, with Anarchy, is actually better off than most African Nations...

Yeah sure, most corrupt, the poorest one in the entire world, crippled by famines and aid not reaching even half of the people it was intended for, how is it better than other African nations? It has THE worst peace rating.

Even though this was not really the topic, someone please do answer the question. I want to know if I should have raised the motion.
JuiceSqueeze
Posts: 109
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10/15/2011 1:37:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Though it does have a transitional government, and it optimistic about national elections in 2012, and is present in the UN (probably as an observer state though), if it does say that, suppose. Raises a motion for UN to send peacekeeping forces in order to conduct the elections, well, it is sensible, but would it be considered infringement of sovereignity? If it helps, I was the delegate of Somalia in a model UN, and was going to raise this demand, But got confused if I would be going against the general policy. Since it shows... Non faith on the present govt. And would be non delegate like for me. Would it have been?
Yap that's true. But just because something has been unsuccessful in past does not mean it would not be successful ever. The issue just needs to be brought in front, it needs sponsors, in layman terms.
US does not send peacekeeping forces to Somalia, not after the unsuccessful UNOSOM 1 where a few American soldiers were killed.


*Somalia cannot formally request UN peacekeepers. And if it weren't to ask, formally, the UN would reject the motion because UN aid programs pulled out of Somalia a year ago because Somalia could not guarantee their safety.

*UN peacekeeping has failed on every possible level, unless there is some new awesome reform that i am unaware of logic says future peacekeeping programs will be just as s***ty as all the other ones.

*US spends about 5 billion annually on peacekeepers that do very little. and the UN has done nothing to stop abuse. the rapes, massacres, pillaging, it's just terrible.
gerrandesquire
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10/16/2011 7:42:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago


*Somalia cannot formally request UN peacekeepers. And if it weren't to ask, formally, the UN would reject the motion because UN aid programs pulled out of Somalia a year ago because Somalia could not guarantee their safety.

That's pretty stupid, dont you think. If they could have guaranteed the safety of their troops, they would have overcome the situation themselves. I thought UN was supposed to intervene in every humanitarian crises, its bound be article 25 and 26 in the UN charter.

*UN peacekeeping has failed on every possible level, unless there is some new awesome reform that i am unaware of logic says future peacekeeping programs will be just as s***ty as all the other ones.

Its just not focussing over there because the last time US focussed over there, 16 US soldiers were killed and owing to increasing public pressure, had to pull out. So no US support. That's a big problem.

*US spends about 5 billion annually on peacekeepers that do very little. and the UN has done nothing to stop abuse. the rapes, massacres, pillaging, it's just terrible.

Ah yes, that I agree with.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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10/16/2011 8:00:11 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Can't we just, I don't know, load lots of civilians in Somalia up in jeeps and transport them over to developed countries?
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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10/16/2011 8:03:24 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/16/2011 8:00:11 AM, Kinesis wrote:
Can't we just, I don't know, load lots of civilians in Somalia up in jeeps and transport them over to developed countries?

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I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

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gerrandesquire
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10/16/2011 9:20:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/16/2011 8:00:11 AM, Kinesis wrote:
Can't we just, I don't know, load lots of civilians in Somalia up in jeeps and transport them over to developed countries?

IMMIGRATION !!! STEALING OUR FOOD! STEALING OUR JOBS! STEALING THE AIR WE BREATHE IN!!!
RoyLatham
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10/16/2011 11:18:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I don't know the answer to whether they would it be considered an infringement of sovereignty.

The broader question is whether the right to sovereignty trumps all other human rights. Someone said, "Afghan men will defend to the death the right to kill their wives and beat their children." I think sovereignty only works up to a point, then man rights prevail. That does not mean anyone is obligated to intervene, only that they are morally justified if they choose do so.
gerrandesquire
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10/16/2011 1:12:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/16/2011 12:42:23 PM, Kinesis wrote:
IMMIGRATION !!! STEALING OUR FOOD! STEALING OUR JOBS! STEALING THE AIR WE BREATHE IN!!!

But they're dying. :/

Its like this, the question will arise as to which country they should be transported to, no country would want the extra burden. Somalia itself cannot and will not propose this, so it wouldn't happen. Remember, we aren't talking about 10 20 people, millions are dying. It would be sensible to send them food aid, and clear the blockage in the path. Easier said than done, of course.

Though what I was proposing was , imposing a ceasefire, starting negotiations, sending peacekeeping troops to conduct the 2012 national elections. Once the government has full control over the country, further progress could be made. Now i think about it, i should have proposed this, at the max I would have been humiliated at the stupidity of the proposal, at least I would have known what was wrong with it. :/
Lordknukle
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10/16/2011 9:12:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/16/2011 1:12:55 PM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 10/16/2011 12:42:23 PM, Kinesis wrote:
IMMIGRATION !!! STEALING OUR FOOD! STEALING OUR JOBS! STEALING THE AIR WE BREATHE IN!!!

But they're dying. :/

Its like this, the question will arise as to which country they should be transported to, no country would want the extra burden. Somalia itself cannot and will not propose this, so it wouldn't happen. Remember, we aren't talking about 10 20 people, millions are dying. It would be sensible to send them food aid, and clear the blockage in the path. Easier said than done, of course.

Though what I was proposing was , imposing a ceasefire, starting negotiations, sending peacekeeping troops to conduct the 2012 national elections. Once the government has full control over the country, further progress could be made. Now i think about it, i should have proposed this, at the max I would have been humiliated at the stupidity of the proposal, at least I would have known what was wrong with it. :/

Its a good idea, but lets say they would be transported to the US.
What would they do? They have virtually no skills that would be beneficial to our society. Except for a few minimum wage jobs, they wouldn't be able to do anything. Also, with our unemployment rate so high, why would we want foreigners taking our jobs?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."