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Anarchy Hedge Wars

Ore_Ele
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10/20/2011 7:53:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Some of you may remember the fun we had talking about how a hedge dispute (property line) might be handled in an AnCap society, and it turned into a rather fun discussion about WW3 between security/insurance companies over the hedges, about neither side accepting defeat and pulling out the big guns.

The common response was, "do you really think anyone is going to freakout over the hedges?" to that, I let this video respond.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
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10/20/2011 7:53:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
In short, yes, people will freak out about anything they damn well please.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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10/20/2011 8:04:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Hmmm. Are you honestly claiming that was the general consensus from the ancaps or are you just trolling?
I'm pretty sure about reading something to do with polycentric law and incentives. When you ignore incentives then the conclusion holds true for any system - people can go nuts over anything whether or not there is a government.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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10/20/2011 8:09:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Gould I post any of a plethora of videos concerning police brutality?
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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10/20/2011 8:10:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/20/2011 8:09:38 PM, socialpinko wrote:
Gould I post any of a plethora of videos concerning police brutality?

*should
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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10/20/2011 8:23:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/20/2011 8:09:38 PM, socialpinko wrote:
Gould I post any of a plethora of videos concerning police brutality?

How about the plethora of videos concerning security guard brutality?

Ore_Ele is right, PEOPLE are the problem.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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10/20/2011 8:26:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/20/2011 8:23:13 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/20/2011 8:09:38 PM, socialpinko wrote:
Gould I post any of a plethora of videos concerning police brutality?

How about the plethora of videos concerning security guard brutality?

Ore_Ele is right, PEOPLE are the problem.

Then how has it got anything to do with anarchism?
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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10/20/2011 8:35:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/20/2011 8:26:07 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 10/20/2011 8:23:13 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/20/2011 8:09:38 PM, socialpinko wrote:
Gould I post any of a plethora of videos concerning police brutality?

How about the plethora of videos concerning security guard brutality?

Ore_Ele is right, PEOPLE are the problem.

Then how has it got anything to do with anarchism?

God is Great, beer is good................ and PEOPLE ARE CRAZY.

People are the problem with societies, ANY and all of them. Ore_Ele was showing how crazy people get about stupid things. The same problem will exist in anarchism. Private security forces are claimed as the anarchism solution to police. But they are still humans regardless of the type of or lack of "government".

The main point is greed (the driving force of anarchism) isn't the only human vice. Many times other deadly sins trump greed three fold. Many people throughout history have blown fortunes in destructive vices. I don't trust the businessman to do right by me any more then the local police officer, if I did I would be a fool.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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10/21/2011 1:59:46 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Yea there was quite a lot of intellectual dishonesty in that thread.

So in an an-cap society two neighbours are arguing about a hedge.

Why would people ever argue about Hedges?

Well they do in the real world so erm...

Oh they magically wouldn't in an an-cap society and even if they did both parties would sit down and rationally and peacefully work out because thats how humans are.

But humans are not like that... we can be pretty stupid.

True, in which case they could always have recourse to central Government.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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10/21/2011 2:01:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I was also amused by the whole, so you have privatised all police and military functions, so basically if you want anything down in their stead you hire mercenaries!

Don't call them mercenaries you are strawmanning waaah! Waaaah!!!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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10/21/2011 2:25:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I served jury duty once.

The issue?

Someone cut down some trees that made a hedge.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/21/2011 3:40:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I've said this before, and I'll say this again.

Any experience with the gang culture will have you realize that the state's control over things is greatly exaggerated.

I know people who have robbed banks, trains, sold and consumed an insane amount of drugs, and have straight up murdered people without getting convicted for anything other than being fvcked up on drugs and getting caught for that.

Anarchy is the law of the land, man. The state doesn't have as much power as people think. Many laws that are randomly enforced. Any dipsh!t could rob a store and get away with it, as long as you are intelligent about it.

Now, most people aren't big enough @ssholes to do such a thing, but the fact is, you can do it, and you can get away with it. Might makes right, and you don't always have to have the biggest cock to be mighty. Organized crime is a real and profitable business, and it will be there whether there is a state or not.

I see it all the time, I live this sh!t. I'm not a big enough of an @sshole to take part of it, but I SEE this sh!t happening all the time. The sick thing about it is, the people who do this kind of sh!t do it while fvcked up on heroin, pcp, weed, and all this other stuff. If these people can do this sh!t while fvcked up out of their minds, imagine what someone can do when they are not all doped up!

Fvck, most people who aren't doped up aren't crazy enough to do this kind of sh!t. The ones that aren't doped up run legitimate businesses, I'll tell you that.

I don't usually talk about this sh!t, and I know I'll regret it, but I'm drunk, so I'll post this anyway, fvck it.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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10/21/2011 11:26:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/21/2011 3:40:22 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I've said this before, and I'll say this again.

Any experience with the gang culture will have you realize that the state's control over things is greatly exaggerated.

I know people who have robbed banks, trains, sold and consumed an insane amount of drugs, and have straight up murdered people without getting convicted for anything other than being fvcked up on drugs and getting caught for that.

Anarchy is the law of the land, man. The state doesn't have as much power as people think. Many laws that are randomly enforced. Any dipsh!t could rob a store and get away with it, as long as you are intelligent about it.


You contridict yourself.

Dipshit - "A stupid or undesirable person"

Obviously, a stupid person is not going to be intelligent about it (they might be lucky, but not intelligent by definition). Any system can be outsmarted, no one is arguing that there is one that can't. The object is to make it as difficult as possible to outsmart, and to balance the incentives, to make it so people don't want to even try.

Now, most people aren't big enough @ssholes to do such a thing, but the fact is, you can do it, and you can get away with it. Might makes right, and you don't always have to have the biggest cock to be mighty. Organized crime is a real and profitable business, and it will be there whether there is a state or not.

I see it all the time, I live this sh!t. I'm not a big enough of an @sshole to take part of it, but I SEE this sh!t happening all the time. The sick thing about it is, the people who do this kind of sh!t do it while fvcked up on heroin, pcp, weed, and all this other stuff. If these people can do this sh!t while fvcked up out of their minds, imagine what someone can do when they are not all doped up!

Fvck, most people who aren't doped up aren't crazy enough to do this kind of sh!t. The ones that aren't doped up run legitimate businesses, I'll tell you that.

I don't usually talk about this sh!t, and I know I'll regret it, but I'm drunk, so I'll post this anyway, fvck it.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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10/21/2011 11:28:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/20/2011 8:26:07 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 10/20/2011 8:23:13 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/20/2011 8:09:38 PM, socialpinko wrote:
Gould I post any of a plethora of videos concerning police brutality?

How about the plethora of videos concerning security guard brutality?

Ore_Ele is right, PEOPLE are the problem.

Then how has it got anything to do with anarchism?

As C_N already said, anarchists assumed (at least they did in the past conversations) that security companies will always be logical, fair, and just, when in reality, they are run by people, looking for money. Those people are rarely logical, fair, and just. Heck, it is those people that say "the customer is always right!"
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/21/2011 1:18:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/21/2011 11:26:06 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 10/21/2011 3:40:22 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I've said this before, and I'll say this again.

Any experience with the gang culture will have you realize that the state's control over things is greatly exaggerated.

I know people who have robbed banks, trains, sold and consumed an insane amount of drugs, and have straight up murdered people without getting convicted for anything other than being fvcked up on drugs and getting caught for that.

Anarchy is the law of the land, man. The state doesn't have as much power as people think. Many laws that are randomly enforced. Any dipsh!t could rob a store and get away with it, as long as you are intelligent about it.


You contridict yourself.

Dipshit - "A stupid or undesirable person"

Obviously, a stupid person is not going to be intelligent about it (they might be lucky, but not intelligent by definition). Any system can be outsmarted, no one is arguing that there is one that can't. The object is to make it as difficult as possible to outsmart, and to balance the incentives, to make it so people don't want to even try.



Ghetto smart, man.

Someone who is ghetto smart may constantly be on drugs, not know how to use a computer, or even read, but they'll know how to hot wire a car, avoid the cops when making a deal, or get things for "free".

Most of the difficulty is psychological. Actually doing these things is easy.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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10/21/2011 1:44:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/21/2011 1:18:27 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 10/21/2011 11:26:06 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 10/21/2011 3:40:22 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I've said this before, and I'll say this again.

Any experience with the gang culture will have you realize that the state's control over things is greatly exaggerated.

I know people who have robbed banks, trains, sold and consumed an insane amount of drugs, and have straight up murdered people without getting convicted for anything other than being fvcked up on drugs and getting caught for that.

Anarchy is the law of the land, man. The state doesn't have as much power as people think. Many laws that are randomly enforced. Any dipsh!t could rob a store and get away with it, as long as you are intelligent about it.


You contridict yourself.

Dipshit - "A stupid or undesirable person"

Obviously, a stupid person is not going to be intelligent about it (they might be lucky, but not intelligent by definition). Any system can be outsmarted, no one is arguing that there is one that can't. The object is to make it as difficult as possible to outsmart, and to balance the incentives, to make it so people don't want to even try.



Ghetto smart, man.

Someone who is ghetto smart may constantly be on drugs, not know how to use a computer, or even read, but they'll know how to hot wire a car, avoid the cops when making a deal, or get things for "free".

Most of the difficulty is psychological. Actually doing these things is easy.

The reason that most people in prison are from the "ghettos" is because their "ghetto smarts" are not really smart.

Yes, it is possible to do it. All you need to know is how the police investigations work and how they catch the criminals, to know what to avoid.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/21/2011 2:01:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/21/2011 1:44:59 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:

The reason that most people in prison are from the "ghettos" is because their "ghetto smarts" are not really smart.

Yes, it is possible to do it. All you need to know is how the police investigations work and how they catch the criminals, to know what to avoid.

Now do you see what I was saying?
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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10/21/2011 2:08:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/21/2011 2:01:26 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 10/21/2011 1:44:59 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:

The reason that most people in prison are from the "ghettos" is because their "ghetto smarts" are not really smart.

Yes, it is possible to do it. All you need to know is how the police investigations work and how they catch the criminals, to know what to avoid.

Now do you see what I was saying?

not really.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/21/2011 2:15:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
You know, considering your first reply was basically semantic trolling, I should have seen this coming.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ore_Ele
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10/21/2011 2:40:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/21/2011 2:15:52 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
You know, considering your first reply was basically semantic trolling, I should have seen this coming.

You probably should have. You came on and said that the power of the state is greatly exaggerated and your only evidence is that there are people that break crimes and don't get caught. That doesn't prove an exaggeration, since no one is claiming that the state catches every criminal. Apart from your claims that you know people that have murdered others and got away with it, which I highly suspect is bullsh*t, you offer nothing.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
CosmicAlfonzo
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10/22/2011 2:13:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/21/2011 2:40:03 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 10/21/2011 2:15:52 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
You know, considering your first reply was basically semantic trolling, I should have seen this coming.

You probably should have. You came on and said that the power of the state is greatly exaggerated and your only evidence is that there are people that break crimes and don't get caught. That doesn't prove an exaggeration, since no one is claiming that the state catches every criminal. Apart from your claims that you know people that have murdered others and got away with it, which I highly suspect is bullsh*t, you offer nothing.

I don't need to prove my point, it is obvious. The state only exists in the minds of the people. An an-cap society is not going to be stable among a populace that is susceptible to psychic manipulation, and people will ALWAYS be susceptible to these things.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp