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Capitalism killed more people than socialism?

Lordknukle
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11/4/2011 5:03:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
So I just had a long debate with my teacher about socialism and capitalism.

He/she brought up the fact that capitalism has killed more people than socialism.

I find this to be absurd.
Is there any logical and scientific basis to the claim?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
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11/4/2011 5:09:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 5:07:20 PM, badger wrote:
capitalism = people competing against each other.
socialism = people working together

logical basis?

Socialism- 100 million dead
Capitalism- ????

Competition=/=murder
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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11/4/2011 5:11:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 5:03:28 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
So I just had a long debate with my teacher about socialism and capitalism.

He/she brought up the fact that capitalism has killed more people than socialism.

I find this to be absurd.
Is there any logical and scientific basis to the claim?

Depends how we define capitalism and socialism. In general, the record shows communism causes famines. North Korea, China's great leap forward, Soviet Union.
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Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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11/4/2011 5:14:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 5:11:33 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:03:28 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
So I just had a long debate with my teacher about socialism and capitalism.

He/she brought up the fact that capitalism has killed more people than socialism.

I find this to be absurd.
Is there any logical and scientific basis to the claim?

Depends how we define capitalism and socialism. In general, the record shows communism causes famines. North Korea, China's great leap forward, Soviet Union.

Socialism as in Stalin, Mae ZeDong, and Kim Jong Il rule.

Sure... governments killed people under capitalism:
http://en.wikipedia.org...

But can you compare hundreds or thousands against hundred millions?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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11/4/2011 5:33:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 5:22:26 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
Economic and political theories can;t kill people...

Stop trying to act smarter than you really are.

It is clear what I mean.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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11/4/2011 5:35:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 5:03:28 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
So I just had a long debate with my teacher about socialism and capitalism.

He/she brought up the fact that capitalism has killed more people than socialism.

I find this to be absurd.
Is there any logical and scientific basis to the claim?:

Absurd because capitalism and/or socialism don't kill people... people kill people... and Hippos.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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11/4/2011 5:43:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 5:33:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:22:26 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
Economic and political theories can;t kill people...

Stop trying to act smarter than you really are.

It is clear what I mean.

Its ok, because I actually am as smart as I think I am..
President of DDO
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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11/4/2011 5:52:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 5:35:10 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:03:28 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
So I just had a long debate with my teacher about socialism and capitalism.

He/she brought up the fact that capitalism has killed more people than socialism.

I find this to be absurd.
Is there any logical and scientific basis to the claim?:

Absurd because capitalism and/or socialism don't kill people... people kill people... and Hippos.

Again... its quite clear what I mean.

Stop trying to play a silly semantics game
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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11/4/2011 5:52:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 5:43:54 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:33:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:22:26 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
Economic and political theories can;t kill people...

Stop trying to act smarter than you really are.

It is clear what I mean.

Its ok, because I actually am as smart as I think I am..

I can assure you that you are an idiot.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
badger
Posts: 11,793
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11/4/2011 6:24:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 5:09:03 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:07:20 PM, badger wrote:
capitalism = people competing against each other.
socialism = people working together

logical basis?

Socialism- 100 million dead
Capitalism- ????

Competition=/=murder

say you've a deer and two opposing cavemen hunters... one hunter kills the other and wins himself the deer.. that's not capitalism? say you've two states... they go to war over land, one state destroys other and wins the land? that's not capitalism? say you've two opposing bakers... one outbakes the other... the other loses his means of survival, starves and dies (say he was allergic to bread or something) ...that's not capitalism? fair enough, the murdering was less direct in the last example, but still there... all scenarios presented still bear striking resemblance to each other, enough so surely to be categorised under the same ultimate means of survival? as opposed to what's commonly considered the communist and socialist means of survival where the two hunters would've shared the deer, where the two states would've shared the land, and where the two bakers would've been working together.
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Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/4/2011 6:25:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 5:52:40 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:43:54 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:33:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:22:26 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
Economic and political theories can;t kill people...

Stop trying to act smarter than you really are.

It is clear what I mean.

Its ok, because I actually am as smart as I think I am..

I can assure you that you are an idiot.

That makes at least 5 so far...
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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11/4/2011 6:37:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 6:24:07 PM, badger wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:09:03 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:07:20 PM, badger wrote:
capitalism = people competing against each other.
socialism = people working together

logical basis?

Socialism- 100 million dead
Capitalism- ????

Competition=/=murder

say you've a deer and two opposing cavemen hunters... one hunter kills the other and wins himself the deer.. that's not capitalism? say you've two states... they go to war over land, one state destroys other and wins the land? that's not capitalism? say you've two opposing bakers... one outbakes the other... the other loses his means of survival, starves and dies (say he was allergic to bread or something) ...that's not capitalism? fair enough, the murdering was less direct in the last example, but still there... all scenarios presented still bear striking resemblance to each other, enough so surely to be categorised under the same ultimate means of survival? as opposed to what's commonly considered the communist and socialist means of survival where the two hunters would've shared the deer, where the two states would've shared the land, and where the two bakers would've been working together.

You are talking about theoretical capitalism and communism.
These are irrelevant in the topic.
Capitalism in practice does not do any of the above mentioned things.
Humans on the other hand, are naturally greedy. One hunter would take the deer from the other. This is where communism fails.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
badger
Posts: 11,793
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11/4/2011 6:39:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 6:37:04 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 6:24:07 PM, badger wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:09:03 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:07:20 PM, badger wrote:
capitalism = people competing against each other.
socialism = people working together

logical basis?

Socialism- 100 million dead
Capitalism- ????

Competition=/=murder

say you've a deer and two opposing cavemen hunters... one hunter kills the other and wins himself the deer.. that's not capitalism? say you've two states... they go to war over land, one state destroys other and wins the land? that's not capitalism? say you've two opposing bakers... one outbakes the other... the other loses his means of survival, starves and dies (say he was allergic to bread or something) ...that's not capitalism? fair enough, the murdering was less direct in the last example, but still there... all scenarios presented still bear striking resemblance to each other, enough so surely to be categorised under the same ultimate means of survival? as opposed to what's commonly considered the communist and socialist means of survival where the two hunters would've shared the deer, where the two states would've shared the land, and where the two bakers would've been working together.

You are talking about theoretical capitalism and communism.
These are irrelevant in the topic.
Capitalism in practice does not do any of the above mentioned things.
Humans on the other hand, are naturally greedy. One hunter would take the deer from the other. This is where communism fails.

so communism fails in being corrupted by humanity's "theoretical" capitalist side...?
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Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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11/4/2011 6:43:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 6:39:10 PM, badger wrote:
At 11/4/2011 6:37:04 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 6:24:07 PM, badger wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:09:03 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:07:20 PM, badger wrote:
capitalism = people competing against each other.
socialism = people working together

logical basis?

Socialism- 100 million dead
Capitalism- ????

Competition=/=murder

say you've a deer and two opposing cavemen hunters... one hunter kills the other and wins himself the deer.. that's not capitalism? say you've two states... they go to war over land, one state destroys other and wins the land? that's not capitalism? say you've two opposing bakers... one outbakes the other... the other loses his means of survival, starves and dies (say he was allergic to bread or something) ...that's not capitalism? fair enough, the murdering was less direct in the last example, but still there... all scenarios presented still bear striking resemblance to each other, enough so surely to be categorised under the same ultimate means of survival? as opposed to what's commonly considered the communist and socialist means of survival where the two hunters would've shared the deer, where the two states would've shared the land, and where the two bakers would've been working together.

You are talking about theoretical capitalism and communism.
These are irrelevant in the topic.
Capitalism in practice does not do any of the above mentioned things.
Humans on the other hand, are naturally greedy. One hunter would take the deer from the other. This is where communism fails.

so communism fails in being corrupted by humanity's "theoretical" capitalist side...?

Do you want me to prove to you how humans are naturally greedy?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
badger
Posts: 11,793
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11/4/2011 6:45:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 6:43:25 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 6:39:10 PM, badger wrote:
At 11/4/2011 6:37:04 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 6:24:07 PM, badger wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:09:03 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:07:20 PM, badger wrote:
capitalism = people competing against each other.
socialism = people working together

logical basis?

Socialism- 100 million dead
Capitalism- ????

Competition=/=murder

say you've a deer and two opposing cavemen hunters... one hunter kills the other and wins himself the deer.. that's not capitalism? say you've two states... they go to war over land, one state destroys other and wins the land? that's not capitalism? say you've two opposing bakers... one outbakes the other... the other loses his means of survival, starves and dies (say he was allergic to bread or something) ...that's not capitalism? fair enough, the murdering was less direct in the last example, but still there... all scenarios presented still bear striking resemblance to each other, enough so surely to be categorised under the same ultimate means of survival? as opposed to what's commonly considered the communist and socialist means of survival where the two hunters would've shared the deer, where the two states would've shared the land, and where the two bakers would've been working together.

You are talking about theoretical capitalism and communism.
These are irrelevant in the topic.
Capitalism in practice does not do any of the above mentioned things.
Humans on the other hand, are naturally greedy. One hunter would take the deer from the other. This is where communism fails.

so communism fails in being corrupted by humanity's "theoretical" capitalist side...?

Do you want me to prove to you how humans are naturally greedy?

we're just survivers and time killers i think.
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Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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11/4/2011 7:00:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This will always come down to definitions... oh but Stalin/Hilter/Pee Wee Herman were not true socialists.

In a true capitalist society no one would ever blah blah blah.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
kogline
Posts: 134
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11/4/2011 8:09:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 7:06:21 PM, badger wrote:
a definition states what something is...

but with these two things, very few people will agree on an exact definition.
if state farm has perfected teleportation technology why do they still sell car insurance?
badger
Posts: 11,793
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11/4/2011 8:21:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 8:09:08 PM, kogline wrote:
At 11/4/2011 7:06:21 PM, badger wrote:
a definition states what something is...

but with these two things, very few people will agree on an exact definition.

i say my ones are right and everybody else is silly :P
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badger
Posts: 11,793
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11/4/2011 8:27:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
capitalism is the root of all evil. competition. obviously it is... all evil involves interfering with others.
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jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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11/4/2011 8:58:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 6:25:26 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:52:40 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:43:54 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:33:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:22:26 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
Economic and political theories can;t kill people...

Stop trying to act smarter than you really are.

It is clear what I mean.

Its ok, because I actually am as smart as I think I am..

I can assure you that you are an idiot.

That makes at least 5 so far...

look at this... the biggest retard on DDO calling someone else an idiot
President of DDO
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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11/4/2011 11:05:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 8:27:09 PM, badger wrote:
capitalism is the root of all evil. competition. obviously it is... all evil involves interfering with others.

Competition drives prices down and quality up.

Would you rather have a government funded business that has no competition making crappy products, or competing companies making good products to beat each other.

Capitalism is a win situation for the consumer.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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11/4/2011 11:06:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 8:58:41 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/4/2011 6:25:26 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:52:40 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:43:54 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:33:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:22:26 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
Economic and political theories can;t kill people...

Stop trying to act smarter than you really are.

It is clear what I mean.

Its ok, because I actually am as smart as I think I am..

I can assure you that you are an idiot.

That makes at least 5 so far...

look at this... the biggest retard on DDO calling someone else an idiot

BTW.. I think I know why you picked that profile picture.

You are in denial of your intellectual flaws.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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11/4/2011 11:17:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 11:06:39 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 8:58:41 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/4/2011 6:25:26 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:52:40 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:43:54 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:33:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:22:26 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
Economic and political theories can;t kill people...

Stop trying to act smarter than you really are.

It is clear what I mean.

Its ok, because I actually am as smart as I think I am..

I can assure you that you are an idiot.

That makes at least 5 so far...

look at this... the biggest retard on DDO calling someone else an idiot

BTW.. I think I know why you picked that profile picture.

You are in denial of your intellectual flaws.

I picked it because a lot of people are in denial of reality..
President of DDO
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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11/5/2011 10:30:52 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/4/2011 11:17:31 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/4/2011 11:06:39 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 8:58:41 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/4/2011 6:25:26 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:52:40 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:43:54 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:33:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:22:26 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
Economic and political theories can;t kill people...

Stop trying to act smarter than you really are.

It is clear what I mean.

Its ok, because I actually am as smart as I think I am..

I can assure you that you are an idiot.

That makes at least 5 so far...

look at this... the biggest retard on DDO calling someone else an idiot

BTW.. I think I know why you picked that profile picture.

You are in denial of your intellectual flaws.

I picked it because a lot of people are in denial of reality..

and what exactly is reality..?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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11/5/2011 12:22:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 10:30:52 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 11:17:31 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/4/2011 11:06:39 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 8:58:41 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/4/2011 6:25:26 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:52:40 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:43:54 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:33:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/4/2011 5:22:26 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
Economic and political theories can;t kill people...

Stop trying to act smarter than you really are.

It is clear what I mean.

Its ok, because I actually am as smart as I think I am..

I can assure you that you are an idiot.

That makes at least 5 so far...

look at this... the biggest retard on DDO calling someone else an idiot

BTW.. I think I know why you picked that profile picture.

You are in denial of your intellectual flaws.

I picked it because a lot of people are in denial of reality..

and what exactly is reality..?

reality is that humans have natural differences... not some egalitarian leftist pipedream where everyone is "equal"...

Many people deny human differences because it conflics with their cultural marxist outlook
President of DDO