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Evolution vs. Creationism: Final Showdown

Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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11/21/2011 4:31:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Lets do this people!!!! The final showdown between creation and evolution right here!!!

Evolutionists, so your theory has mountains of evidence? Then give me some!!

Creationists, so your theory is the new paradigm? All right, show me why.

I doubt the creationists will get far. I mean, whales are made with lungs instead of gills when they live in water. You might as well make a land animal with gills instead of lungs. He has to rush into the water to breathe every hour.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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11/21/2011 6:58:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 6:38:51 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Pretty sure this has been resolved in the scientific community since the 20th century.

19th.
ApostateAbe
Posts: 229
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11/21/2011 8:12:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Here is an illustration I made some time I ago, illustrating the fossil transition between ape ancestors and modern humans:

http://img.photobucket.com...

It is among my favorite evidence, because it is so visually compelling.

A similar line of evidence concerns human babies born with tails. I wrote up a thread about it on EvC Forum here:

http://www.evcforum.net...

The EvC Forum is all about Evolution vs. Creation debates.
sadolite
Posts: 8,836
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11/21/2011 9:33:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
What show down. A show down of repugnance and arrogance. To see which side can prove nothing while at the same time say the other sides theory is a load of crap.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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11/21/2011 9:55:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The creationist perspective is not only not testable, but unknowable, and it is asinine to put it on the same epistemological level as evolution, which not only makes rational sense, but is at the very least backed by convincing evidence.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
ApostateAbe
Posts: 229
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11/21/2011 9:55:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 9:33:46 PM, sadolite wrote:
What show down. A show down of repugnance and arrogance. To see which side can prove nothing while at the same time say the other sides theory is a load of crap.
What if one side and only one side of the debate really is a load of crap? People in the debate tend to act like jerks, especially advocates of the theory of evolution, but I think acting like a jerk has nothing to do with being right or wrong. Out of all of the issues popular on the web, debates concerning the issue of the theory of evolution tend to be a slam dunk for one side only.
sadolite
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11/21/2011 10:02:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 9:55:03 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
The creationist perspective is not only not testable, but unknowable, and it is asinine to put it on the same epistemological level as evolution, which not only makes rational sense, but is at the very least backed by convincing evidence.

Not convincing enough apparently
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
sadolite
Posts: 8,836
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11/21/2011 10:03:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 9:55:11 PM, ApostateAbe wrote:
At 11/21/2011 9:33:46 PM, sadolite wrote:
What show down. A show down of repugnance and arrogance. To see which side can prove nothing while at the same time say the other sides theory is a load of crap.
What if one side and only one side of the debate really is a load of crap? People in the debate tend to act like jerks, especially advocates of the theory of evolution, but I think acting like a jerk has nothing to do with being right or wrong. Out of all of the issues popular on the web, debates concerning the issue of the theory of evolution tend to be a slam dunk for one side only.

Obviously one side is wrong, neither can prove either.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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11/21/2011 10:05:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 9:33:46 PM, sadolite wrote:
What show down. A show down of repugnance and arrogance. To see which side can prove nothing while at the same time say the other sides theory is a load of crap.

What do you call this?

http://online.santarosa.edu...
sadolite
Posts: 8,836
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11/21/2011 10:06:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 6:38:51 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Pretty sure this has been resolved in the scientific community since the 20th century.

Um, can you show me that scientific report. I seemed to have been living under a rock when the scientific community proved beyond all doubt the origin of the universe and life. I would have thought that would have been front page news in every news paper in the world!!
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
ApostateAbe
Posts: 229
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11/21/2011 10:35:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 10:03:18 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 11/21/2011 9:55:11 PM, ApostateAbe wrote:
At 11/21/2011 9:33:46 PM, sadolite wrote:
What show down. A show down of repugnance and arrogance. To see which side can prove nothing while at the same time say the other sides theory is a load of crap.
What if one side and only one side of the debate really is a load of crap? People in the debate tend to act like jerks, especially advocates of the theory of evolution, but I think acting like a jerk has nothing to do with being right or wrong. Out of all of the issues popular on the web, debates concerning the issue of the theory of evolution tend to be a slam dunk for one side only.

Obviously one side is wrong, neither can prove either.

Why do you say that? Do you think the correct side has simply failed to build a sufficient case? Or do you think either case is impossible to "prove"? When we have a good number of fossil skulls that display features that are apparently intermediate between the features of humans and the features of a chimp-like species, found in geologic strata radiometrically dated to the time periods expected by evolution, not that such a thing is the only slam dunk, but I am not sure what it would take. What do you think it would take to make a sufficient case?
16kadams
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11/21/2011 10:49:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 10:10:31 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
By "creationism" I assume you mean "young earth creationism"?

Well how do you know the earth is young, on the first day there was no light so the first day could have been 10,000,000 years! "god said let there be light, and light asked 'am I good' and god said 'you are good', but the 6th day god made a man, a day to god may be as long as you want it to be. So creationism is maybe not 'young earth' theory, but that is the catholics take on it. I as a catholic dissagree though and think that the each of those 7 days where long, but the bible does have flaws in it, but the majority of it is valid. The tower of babble is BS probably
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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11/21/2011 10:53:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Athiests need to ask themselfes these 3 questions to beat my belifs and maybe make me agnostic:

1. how did the big bang start? Before then it was just hydrogen and helium floating around.
2. Why is earth so perfect? PErfect shape, reascources, size, tempature, distance from the sun, has water etc. That is HUGLEY coinsidental, perfect by the most precision.
3. I belive everything came from something. So answer this: How does everything come from nothing?
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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11/21/2011 11:02:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 10:06:19 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 11/21/2011 6:38:51 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Pretty sure this has been resolved in the scientific community since the 20th century.

Um, can you show me that scientific report. I seemed to have been living under a rock when the scientific community proved beyond all doubt the origin of the universe and life. I would have thought that would have been front page news in every news paper in the world!!

Apparently:

http://scienceblogs.com...

Also:

http://www.amazon.com...
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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11/21/2011 11:06:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 10:53:51 PM, 16kadams wrote:
Athiests need to ask themselfes these 3 questions to beat my belifs and maybe make me agnostic:

1. how did the big bang start? Before then it was just hydrogen and helium floating around.
2. Why is earth so perfect? PErfect shape, reascources, size, tempature, distance from the sun, has water etc. That is HUGLEY coinsidental, perfect by the most precision.
3. I belive everything came from something. So answer this: How does everything come from nothing?

Hmm. athiests arent answering, dan I think the creationists got pretty far basically just killing their creation stories
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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11/21/2011 11:10:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 10:49:46 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 11/21/2011 10:10:31 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
By "creationism" I assume you mean "young earth creationism"?

Well how do you know the earth is young, on the first day there was no light so the first day could have been 10,000,000 years! "god said let there be light, and light asked 'am I good' and god said 'you are good', but the 6th day god made a man, a day to god may be as long as you want it to be. So creationism is maybe not 'young earth' theory, but that is the catholics take on it. I as a catholic dissagree though and think that the each of those 7 days where long, but the bible does have flaws in it, but the majority of it is valid. The tower of babble is BS probably

I'm actually surprised to see this.
Probably because the people (not on this site) I've been 'debating' with are complete idiots....but I applaud you thinking for yourself and finding more logical beliefs rather than ones that tend to just be traditional.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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11/21/2011 11:16:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 11:10:09 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 11/21/2011 10:49:46 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 11/21/2011 10:10:31 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
By "creationism" I assume you mean "young earth creationism"?

Well how do you know the earth is young, on the first day there was no light so the first day could have been 10,000,000 years! "god said let there be light, and light asked 'am I good' and god said 'you are good', but the 6th day god made a man, a day to god may be as long as you want it to be. So creationism is maybe not 'young earth' theory, but that is the catholics take on it. I as a catholic dissagree though and think that the each of those 7 days where long, but the bible does have flaws in it, but the majority of it is valid. The tower of babble is BS probably

I'm actually surprised to see this.
Probably because the people (not on this site) I've been 'debating' with are complete idiots....but I applaud you thinking for yourself and finding more logical beliefs rather than ones that tend to just be traditional.

Thank you. My christian belifs kinda work with evolution at times, I kinda belive it and I kinda dont, but my theory like the one above makes more sense to me.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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11/21/2011 11:25:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 10:03:18 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 11/21/2011 9:55:11 PM, ApostateAbe wrote:
At 11/21/2011 9:33:46 PM, sadolite wrote:
What show down. A show down of repugnance and arrogance. To see which side can prove nothing while at the same time say the other sides theory is a load of crap.
What if one side and only one side of the debate really is a load of crap? People in the debate tend to act like jerks, especially advocates of the theory of evolution, but I think acting like a jerk has nothing to do with being right or wrong. Out of all of the issues popular on the web, debates concerning the issue of the theory of evolution tend to be a slam dunk for one side only.

Obviously one side is wrong, neither can prove either.

You have no evidence to say that.
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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11/21/2011 11:27:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 10:10:31 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
By "creationism" I assume you mean "young earth creationism"?

Creationism can mean YEC creationism, old earth creationism or intelligent design.
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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11/21/2011 11:30:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 10:53:51 PM, 16kadams wrote:
Athiests need to ask themselfes these 3 questions to beat my belifs and maybe make me agnostic:

1. how did the big bang start? Before then it was just hydrogen and helium floating around.

Please to not post off-topic material in my thread. We are debating the theory of evolution, not big bang theory.

2. Why is earth so perfect? PErfect shape, reascources, size, tempature, distance from the sun, has water etc. That is HUGLEY coinsidental, perfect by the most precision.

Again off topic. We are debating the theory of evolution not cosmology.

3. I belive everything came from something. So answer this: How does everything come from nothing?

The theory of evolution does not say everything came from nowhere, please stay on topic.

In your entire post, you did not even attack the theory of evolution even once, and attacked other theories and philosophies.
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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11/21/2011 11:31:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 11:06:49 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 11/21/2011 10:53:51 PM, 16kadams wrote:
Athiests need to ask themselfes these 3 questions to beat my belifs and maybe make me agnostic:

1. how did the big bang start? Before then it was just hydrogen and helium floating around.
2. Why is earth so perfect? PErfect shape, reascources, size, tempature, distance from the sun, has water etc. That is HUGLEY coinsidental, perfect by the most precision.
3. I belive everything came from something. So answer this: How does everything come from nothing?


Hmm. athiests arent answering, dan I think the creationists got pretty far basically just killing their creation stories

You did not even address the theory of evolution.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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11/21/2011 11:43:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 11:31:53 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 11/21/2011 11:06:49 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 11/21/2011 10:53:51 PM, 16kadams wrote:
Athiests need to ask themselfes these 3 questions to beat my belifs and maybe make me agnostic:

1. how did the big bang start? Before then it was just hydrogen and helium floating around.
2. Why is earth so perfect? PErfect shape, reascources, size, tempature, distance from the sun, has water etc. That is HUGLEY coinsidental, perfect by the most precision.
3. I belive everything came from something. So answer this: How does everything come from nothing?


Hmm. athiests arent answering, dan I think the creationists got pretty far basically just killing their creation stories

You did not even address the theory of evolution.

Actually everything there is relavant, because we are arguing the creation stories of both and the current things. So I just asked simple questions of the evolutionists. I only belive in evolution kinda so I will talk about my doubts in it to see if they are answered because they can talk about genisis, yet I cant talk about their creation belifs. Well I will later.

So if they can talk about theorys on the age why cant I, I may not even continue wastig my time with this because the maker of the htread wont let me ask valid questions. And sadley I do not like being a 'troll' so ill let him make the rules, no matter how unfair.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/21/2011 11:46:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Not everyone pits these two perspectives together. Creationism as an unofficial term denotes that God either had a hand in or was responsible for "the world" as we know it, which could either include life on this planet, life itself, or the universe at large. Either way, it doesn't necessarily contradict notions of evolution.

Conversely, there is a suggestion that it even accommodates evolution. In Genesis, the Bible clearly states that for a good portion of our waking existence, we spent our lives naked among nature and animals, interacting with them as though we're one of them, unlike the distinctions we make in behavior and association now. By simply accepting that this early version of man is an earlier manifestation of man in perhaps a different form, you can accept that it supports the potential for evolution.

The fact is that those who are truly scientifically minded do not simply reject notions because it doesn't perfectly exemplify their initial beliefs. There is no evidence for or against an initial creator, so to completely deny the existence of one as an unalienable conclusion is fallacious.
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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11/22/2011 12:19:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 11:43:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 11/21/2011 11:31:53 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 11/21/2011 11:06:49 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 11/21/2011 10:53:51 PM, 16kadams wrote:
Athiests need to ask themselfes these 3 questions to beat my belifs and maybe make me agnostic:

1. how did the big bang start? Before then it was just hydrogen and helium floating around.
2. Why is earth so perfect? PErfect shape, reascources, size, tempature, distance from the sun, has water etc. That is HUGLEY coinsidental, perfect by the most precision.
3. I belive everything came from something. So answer this: How does everything come from nothing?


Hmm. athiests arent answering, dan I think the creationists got pretty far basically just killing their creation stories

You did not even address the theory of evolution.

Actually everything there is relavant, because we are arguing the creation stories of both and the current things. So I just asked simple questions of the evolutionists. I only belive in evolution kinda so I will talk about my doubts in it to see if they are answered because they can talk about genisis, yet I cant talk about their creation belifs. Well I will later.

So if they can talk about theorys on the age why cant I, I may not even continue wastig my time with this because the maker of the htread wont let me ask valid questions. And sadley I do not like being a 'troll' so ill let him make the rules, no matter how unfair.

Look you can have universe in which God made the universe, made the earth, made the first life form, but then allowed evolution to happen, but in this case, in this thread you are still an evolutionist because you claimed that life evolved. To be a creationist with respect to what this thread is about,you have to believe that God or an intelligent designer made all the different species, and didn't evolve them.

We are not discussing the origin of the universe, the origin of the earth, or the origin of the first life form. Whether you are a creationist or not with respect to these ideas does not matter, the question is, do you think that the different species we see today evolve from a common ancestor, or were they individually created? This is what we are discussing. Stay on topic please.
TheTruthAnalyst
Posts: 312
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11/22/2011 2:22:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 12:19:37 AM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 11/21/2011 11:43:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 11/21/2011 11:31:53 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 11/21/2011 11:06:49 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 11/21/2011 10:53:51 PM, 16kadams wrote:
Athiests need to ask themselfes these 3 questions to beat my belifs and maybe make me agnostic:

1. how did the big bang start? Before then it was just hydrogen and helium floating around.
2. Why is earth so perfect? PErfect shape, reascources, size, tempature, distance from the sun, has water etc. That is HUGLEY coinsidental, perfect by the most precision.
3. I belive everything came from something. So answer this: How does everything come from nothing?


Hmm. athiests arent answering, dan I think the creationists got pretty far basically just killing their creation stories

You did not even address the theory of evolution.

Actually everything there is relavant, because we are arguing the creation stories of both and the current things. So I just asked simple questions of the evolutionists. I only belive in evolution kinda so I will talk about my doubts in it to see if they are answered because they can talk about genisis, yet I cant talk about their creation belifs. Well I will later.

So if they can talk about theorys on the age why cant I, I may not even continue wastig my time with this because the maker of the htread wont let me ask valid questions. And sadley I do not like being a 'troll' so ill let him make the rules, no matter how unfair.

Look you can have universe in which God made the universe, made the earth, made the first life form, but then allowed evolution to happen, but in this case, in this thread you are still an evolutionist because you claimed that life evolved. To be a creationist with respect to what this thread is about,you have to believe that God or an intelligent designer made all the different species, and didn't evolve them.

We are not discussing the origin of the universe, the origin of the earth, or the origin of the first life form. Whether you are a creationist or not with respect to these ideas does not matter, the question is, do you think that the different species we see today evolve from a common ancestor, or were they individually created? This is what we are discussing. Stay on topic please.

Personally, I think the real topic is what is the cause. If God used evolution to prepare a vessel in which to place the spirit of man, would that be creationism, evolution, or both?

I use an analogy of a bowling alley. I can walk down the lane and knock down pins, or I can throw a ball and knock down pins. Either way, I'm the cause.

You can't force the two concepts to be mutually exclusive. Some of us allow the possibility for them to coexist.

Or you could say Creationism vs. Evolution vs. Created Evolution.
Vote For Truth. Vote For Pie.
Truth-Pie 2012 (member FDIC)
sadolite
Posts: 8,836
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11/22/2011 6:48:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 11:02:42 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 11/21/2011 10:06:19 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 11/21/2011 6:38:51 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Pretty sure this has been resolved in the scientific community since the 20th century.

Um, can you show me that scientific report. I seemed to have been living under a rock when the scientific community proved beyond all doubt the origin of the universe and life. I would have thought that would have been front page news in every news paper in the world!!

Apparently:

http://scienceblogs.com...

Also:

http://www.amazon.com...

Um, rather than give me a list of books, Maybe you could shorten it up a bit and give me the phrase or phrases that conclusively prove the origin of the universe and life that every scientist on earth can replicate and prove conclusively the origin of the universe and life. Why would you give me a list of books? You don't know the origin of the universe. If it was known it would be taught in every school as common knowledge and fact. Yet for some reason this isn't done. What do you suppose the reason fro that is? Sorry to burst your bubble but the theory of evolution does nothing to prove the origin of the universe or life. Evolution cant even explain why there are more than two totally different forms of life. One species can't evolve into another.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%