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"Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

FreedomFighter24
Posts: 7
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5/12/2009 6:55:11 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Virtually everyone is admitting that "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" -- the compromise between the president and Congress in 1993 on gays and lesbians in the military -- hasn't worked. It's about time; anyone with a modicum of common sense and some experiential knowledge of how the military works could have easily predicted the outcome. Why can't you have women in men's showers and bunks? Or Men in Women's showers and bunks. It is the same with homosexuals, No I'm not saying gay men are woman, they are men with a perversion. Men and women have the Constitutional right to do what they want in their bedroom. They should not be allowed into the military for it will greatly affect the Military. It is a perversion, and cannot be in a High-Moral place, as the Military is and will stay to be. It is common sense.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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5/12/2009 7:05:02 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/12/2009 6:55:11 PM, FreedomFighter24 wrote:
Virtually everyone is admitting that "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" -- the compromise between the president and Congress in 1993 on gays and lesbians in the military -- hasn't worked. It's about time; anyone with a modicum of common sense and some experiential knowledge of how the military works could have easily predicted the outcome. Why can't you have women in men's showers and bunks? Or Men in Women's showers and bunks. It is the same with homosexuals, No I'm not saying gay men are woman, they are men with a perversion. Men and women have the Constitutional right to do what they want in their bedroom. They should not be allowed into the military for it will greatly affect the Military. It is a perversion, and cannot be in a High-Moral place, as the Military is and will stay to be. It is common sense.

It is not common sense. It is grounded in this assumption that gay men will automatically latch onto some guys that get naked in the shower, or that a gay man will try to harass or start a relationship with another soldier. Besides the fact that male soldiers can just as easily start up a relationship with a female soldier, all of this is groundless and based on stereotypes.

Men are men, gay or straight.

Women are women, lesbian or straight.

Soldiers are soldiers, homosexual or heterosexual. They'll still fight for the same force, with the same passion and the same attitude as the man or women beside them.

Get over it already.
LB628
Posts: 176
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5/12/2009 7:27:12 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/12/2009 7:08:00 PM, FreedomFighter24 wrote:
This is actually extremely sad that we are falling into perversion and not even caring. It truly is sad, that's all I have to say.

This is happening because most people either 1: Don't consider it a perversion or 2: Dont think it will affect how well the military operates.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/12/2009 9:05:50 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Freedom for our fighters, kthnxplox.

Military personnel are in high demand, when they are, it's a good idea to improve incentives to join. This is a cheap way to do so, and has no negative effects, not even moral ones ("perversion" neither has objective meaning nor would matter morally if it did.)
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/12/2009 9:44:20 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
FreedomFu<ker... Err, FreedomFighter...

Your arguments are:
(1) Homosexuality is perverted
(2) That homosexual persons in the military would "greatly affect the military"
(3a) That homosexuality is immoral, and cannot exist in a "moral place"
(3b) That the military is entirely a moral place

Until/unless you provide support for any of these claims, you have absolutely no argument. And even if you did BS some more ignorant and homophobic jargon to back your case, I'd only dismantle it anyway, so go for it: I'm looking forward to it.
President of DDO
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/12/2009 10:15:41 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/12/2009 9:44:20 PM, theLwerd wrote:
FreedomFu<ker... Err, FreedomFighter...

Your arguments are:
(1) Homosexuality is perverted
(2) That homosexual persons in the military would "greatly affect the military"
(3a) That homosexuality is immoral, and cannot exist in a "moral place"
(3b) That the military is entirely a moral place


Until/unless you provide support for any of these claims, you have absolutely no argument. And even if you did BS some more ignorant and homophobic jargon to back your case, I'd only dismantle it anyway, so go for it: I'm looking forward to it.

Lmao. This kid is trying to tell us that a man loving another man is immoral, but blowing the sh** out of people with nuclear weapons and sniping people's heads off is completely moral.

FreedomFighter = fail

.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
MistahKurtz
Posts: 400
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5/13/2009 7:02:49 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/12/2009 7:08:00 PM, FreedomFighter24 wrote:
This is actually extremely sad that we are falling into perversion and not even caring. It truly is sad, that's all I have to say.

Who's definition of perversion? Your's? Who's to decide what humans are lesser than others? Interracial marriage used to be perverse, why is that okay now?

You know why you can't accept these people as normal human beings? Because of your own backwards spin on life. I'm sure you were raised very well, but I'm sure you were also brought up to believe every strange is wrong and that if you don't agree with it, then those people should be punished. You're looking to inflict your own bigoted point of view on millions of people, and why? What sort of sick self-satisfaction will you get out of it? You're not even in the military, so for you to sit back and criticize those who (think) they're serving the country is disingenuous and self serving.
Lawsonishere
Posts: 64
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5/13/2009 12:33:43 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I don't know about other services but the marines make you sign a waiver saying your not gay. Considering most army personnel i know are extremely homophobic and anti- gay i think this is necessary.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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5/13/2009 1:10:01 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/13/2009 12:33:43 PM, Lawsonishere wrote:
I don't know about other services but the marines make you sign a waiver saying your not gay. Considering most army personnel i know are extremely homophobic and anti- gay i think this is necessary.

It isn't necessary just because some guys are homophobic. You think you'll protect them somehow? Forcing them out of service just because of their sexuality does more harm.
lil_Oreo
Posts: 61
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5/13/2009 1:45:55 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/12/2009 6:55:11 PM, FreedomFighter24 wrote:
They should not be allowed into the military for it will greatly affect the Military. It is a perversion, and cannot be in a High-Moral place, as the Military is and will stay to be. It is common sense.

I gotta say I can't agree with you on this one. Don't get me wrong, I don't support gay/lesbian people but I'm not homophobic either. I don't think ANYBODY should be kept out of the military because of their sexuality. It shouldn't matter whether they want to be with another guy or a girl (or both...) because they are STILL fighting and dying to defend and protect the country YOU call home. They could be some of the best and most dedicated fighters out there but you want them out because they're gay/lesbian. We are the free country that we are today (though not as free as most believe) because of some of those men and women. Would you really rather be stuck under some other country's jurisdiction because you felt it was 'immoral' to have a gay or lesbian soldier give THEIR LIFE for YOUR freedom?
When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, the world will know Peace.
FreedomFighter24
Posts: 7
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5/13/2009 3:59:57 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Thank You everybody for helping me understand your views and learn from them, thats why I came on hear was to learn not slam people in the ground, I just personally don' agree with Homosexuality because it started the main HIV problem, along with drug-users. I now understand that they DO deserve to to be in the army but I am still going to be airy abut it, and yes gays have been active in the army, so I will still join the MIlitary. I don't quite understand homophobe or anything like that but I don't HATE anybody instead I HATE what they do. Just for clarification - I'm young and here to learn and fight(on some matters), here to make friends, not bash anyone with my words or force my religion on anyone.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/13/2009 4:01:40 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/13/2009 3:59:57 PM, FreedomFighter24 wrote:
Thank You everybody for helping me understand your views and learn from them, thats why I came on hear was to learn not slam people in the ground, I just personally don' agree with Homosexuality because it started the main HIV problem,
Technically, it probably STARTED from bestiality, not homosexuality.

Either that or from poor culinary practice.
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It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
lil_Oreo
Posts: 61
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5/13/2009 4:15:31 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/13/2009 3:59:57 PM, FreedomFighter24 wrote:
Thank You everybody for helping me understand your views and learn from them, thats why I came on hear was to learn not slam people in the ground, I just personally don' agree with Homosexuality because it started the main HIV problem, along with drug-users. I now understand that they DO deserve to to be in the army but I am still going to be airy abut it, and yes gays have been active in the army, so I will still join the MIlitary. I don't quite understand homophobe or anything like that but I don't HATE anybody instead I HATE what they do. Just for clarification - I'm young and here to learn and fight(on some matters), here to make friends, not bash anyone with my words or force my religion on anyone.

Sorry bout that Freedom, didn't mean to slam you like that, I just get worked up when people start on stuff about the military that I can relate to. Plus I was in a bad mood. I shouldn't have taken it out on you... (^_-)!
When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, the world will know Peace.
Lawsonishere
Posts: 64
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5/13/2009 7:14:01 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Well it easy for those who don't live in a tent with 50 guys to say gays do not affect moral. Or a boat in the case of the navy. Its hard for me to say no gays should be allowed because in a perfect world they should. I just think it dangers those who are gay both physically and mentally. Being openly gay in the military just seems like social suicide to me even if don't ask don't tell didn't exist. Hard for me to see a marine embrace and give up his life for a man who gets it in the butt. Plus the military is a place of many religious men not that I agree with killing for Jesus but that's the reality there.
Marine1
Posts: 11
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5/14/2009 9:04:29 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Just because the man is gay he does not mean that I wont try and save him. He is my brother in arms, and we do share one thing in common we are fighting to protect our country.
ClayMeister
Posts: 37
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5/14/2009 3:32:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
First of all Thank you Marine1 for protecting and defending our butts here in our cozy homes while we bicker. Second, Marine1 you ROCK!!! and all men like you Rock!!! Third, I believe as a christian that Homosexuality is a perversion, but in the U.S they have the right to do what they wish, as long as it is not lawful, which gays battering old women and others is wrong, which has happened many a time. Now, gays, lesbians, and straits all commit crimes so yes they are all wrong.
As George Santayana said, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Do you really believe that what you believe is really real?
ClayMeister
Posts: 37
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5/14/2009 3:35:48 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
sorry I meant unlawful not lawful, DUH
As George Santayana said, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Do you really believe that what you believe is really real?
MistahKurtz
Posts: 400
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5/14/2009 7:52:37 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/13/2009 4:01:40 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Technically, it probably STARTED from bestiality, not homosexuality.

Myth.

At 5/13/2009 4:15:31 PM, lil_Oreo wrote:
Sorry bout that Freedom, didn't mean to slam you like that, I just get worked up when people start on stuff about the military that I can relate to. Plus I was in a bad mood. I shouldn't have taken it out on you... (^_-)!

"I'm young, therefore I shouldn't be responsible for my bigotry."

You do not need to apologize.

At 5/13/2009 7:14:01 PM, Lawsonishere wrote:
Well it easy for those who don't live in a tent with 50 guys to say gays do not affect moral. Or a boat in the case of the navy. Its hard for me to say no gays should be allowed because in a perfect world they should. I just think it dangers those who are gay both physically and mentally. Being openly gay in the military just seems like social suicide to me even if don't ask don't tell didn't exist. Hard for me to see a marine embrace and give up his life for a man who gets it in the butt. Plus the military is a place of many religious men not that I agree with killing for Jesus but that's the reality there.

First of all, you're painting an awful charactiure of military personnel. You assume they're all ignorant, pig-headed bigots and that they are all male. Even so, it is up to the person to join the military and the U.S government has no right to turn them away.

At 5/13/2009 3:59:57 PM, FreedomFighter24 wrote:
Thank You everybody for helping me understand your views and learn from them, thats why I came on hear was to learn not slam people in the ground, I just personally don' agree with Homosexuality because it started the main HIV problem, along with drug-users. I now understand that they DO deserve to to be in the army but I am still going to be airy abut it, and yes gays have been active in the army, so I will still join the MIlitary. I don't quite understand homophobe or anything like that but I don't HATE anybody instead I HATE what they do. Just for clarification - I'm young and here to learn and fight(on some matters), here to make friends, not bash anyone with my words or force my religion on anyone.

To blame gays and drug users for HIV is like blaming people with weak immune systems for the Spanish Flu. These people did not realize what they did, and if you're truely angry about this, why do you not hate the Catholic church? The area most affected by the HIV crisis is Africa, where the Catholic church maintained an anti-condom policy which likely worsened the pandemic (largely among straight couples, not gays) more than the homosexuality community did.

And you don't need to hate gays to be homophobic, merely wanting them to hold a lesser social stature than you equates to homophobia.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/14/2009 9:15:54 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/14/2009 7:52:37 PM, MistahKurtz wrote:
At 5/13/2009 4:01:40 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Technically, it probably STARTED from bestiality, not homosexuality.

Myth.
Do you know whence it came, then? Besides, myths aren't probabilistic.
Keep in mind, I also included culinary uses in the probability :)

\
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
MistahKurtz
Posts: 400
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5/15/2009 7:05:31 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/14/2009 9:15:54 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/14/2009 7:52:37 PM, MistahKurtz wrote:
At 5/13/2009 4:01:40 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Technically, it probably STARTED from bestiality, not homosexuality.

Myth.
Do you know whence it came, then? Besides, myths aren't probabilistic.
Keep in mind, I also included culinary uses in the probability :)

It was just some hypothesis that someone put out there and it was quickly accepted as fact by the internet. The most likely, sensible cause would be that a hunter went into the woods and was bitten by a monkey with HIV.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/15/2009 8:59:40 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/15/2009 7:05:31 AM, MistahKurtz wrote:
At 5/14/2009 9:15:54 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/14/2009 7:52:37 PM, MistahKurtz wrote:
At 5/13/2009 4:01:40 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Technically, it probably STARTED from bestiality, not homosexuality.

Myth.
Do you know whence it came, then? Besides, myths aren't probabilistic.
Keep in mind, I also included culinary uses in the probability :)

It was just some hypothesis that someone put out there and it was quickly accepted as fact by the internet. The most likely, sensible cause would be that a hunter went into the woods and was bitten by a monkey with HIV.

Bitten by a monkey?
That doesn't seem likely at all. There would have to be monkey blood in the mouth, and it would have to be directly transferred into the wound from the bite. That's a difficult proposition.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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5/15/2009 9:11:28 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/15/2009 8:59:40 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/15/2009 7:05:31 AM, MistahKurtz wrote:
At 5/14/2009 9:15:54 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/14/2009 7:52:37 PM, MistahKurtz wrote:
At 5/13/2009 4:01:40 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Technically, it probably STARTED from bestiality, not homosexuality.

Myth.
Do you know whence it came, then? Besides, myths aren't probabilistic.
Keep in mind, I also included culinary uses in the probability :)

Culinary uses? I could see that being the easiest way of transference, though wouldn't cooking the meat enough kill off the virus?
MistahKurtz
Posts: 400
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5/15/2009 9:56:04 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/15/2009 8:59:40 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Bitten by a monkey?
That doesn't seem likely at all. There would have to be monkey blood in the mouth, and it would have to be directly transferred into the wound from the bite. That's a difficult proposition.

I may have made a slipup. While I've heard that biting theory, the most common one (the true hunter theory) appears to be a culinary one, as was said.
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comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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1/12/2010 9:52:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I have been thinking about this and i think we should leave it alone.

The current policy is an ok policy, one thing is that gay people should not be kicked out for being gay.

But if a gay person is being gay and disruptive, he/she should be punished, just as a straight person.

Any new thoughts?
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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1/13/2010 3:49:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/15/2009 8:59:40 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/15/2009 7:05:31 AM, MistahKurtz wrote:
At 5/14/2009 9:15:54 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/14/2009 7:52:37 PM, MistahKurtz wrote:
At 5/13/2009 4:01:40 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Technically, it probably STARTED from bestiality, not homosexuality.

Myth.
Do you know whence it came, then? Besides, myths aren't probabilistic.
Keep in mind, I also included culinary uses in the probability :)

It was just some hypothesis that someone put out there and it was quickly accepted as fact by the internet. The most likely, sensible cause would be that a hunter went into the woods and was bitten by a monkey with HIV.

Bitten by a monkey?
That doesn't seem likely at all. There would have to be monkey blood in the mouth, and it would have to be directly transferred into the wound from the bite. That's a difficult proposition.

"Until the late 19th or early 20th Century AIDS was confined to non-human primates in Africa but then one day...some dirty nonce went into the jungle and bummed a monkey..."

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