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The Problems of Communism

ianspigler
Posts: 24
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11/28/2011 11:45:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
To begin my point, Karl Marx believed that job specialization would make everyone happy. But, the problem with that is: what do you define as happy? Everyone has their own definition of happiness, some people are happy with their job, some people are happy spending time with their kids. Second, in a communist society were you have equal distribution of wealth you have no incentive to work. Then you have a small amount of people working for a large amount of people doing nothing. Third, Karl Marx advocated for the destruction of religion, which in reality can never happen for you will always have people who strongly believe in their religion no matter much you can prove them otherwise. Lastly, and most importantly in a communist society you put everyone's resources into a collective pool and distribute it. The problem you run into there is if there is something the country needs they have to take from that collective pool to pay for it, leaving the country bankrupt. Example: Ronald Regan increased defense spending because he knew the Soviet Union would try to spend more on there's, eventually the Soviet's ran out of money from there collective pool and went bankrupt and the government collapsed.And those are the problems of communism in a nutshell.
thisisnottom
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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11/28/2011 2:29:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
You forgot the biggest one, the economic calculation problem.

And, with marxism, biological human traits are wished away.
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TheTruthAnalyst
Posts: 312
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11/28/2011 2:41:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/28/2011 11:45:39 AM, ianspigler wrote:
To begin my point, Karl Marx believed that job specialization would make everyone happy. But, the problem with that is: what do you define as happy? Everyone has their own definition of happiness, some people are happy with their job, some people are happy spending time with their kids. Second, in a communist society were you have equal distribution of wealth you have no incentive to work. Then you have a small amount of people working for a large amount of people doing nothing. Third, Karl Marx advocated for the destruction of religion, which in reality can never happen for you will always have people who strongly believe in their religion no matter much you can prove them otherwise. Lastly, and most importantly in a communist society you put everyone's resources into a collective pool and distribute it. The problem you run into there is if there is something the country needs they have to take from that collective pool to pay for it, leaving the country bankrupt. Example: Ronald Regan increased defense spending because he knew the Soviet Union would try to spend more on there's, eventually the Soviet's ran out of money from there collective pool and went bankrupt and the government collapsed.And those are the problems of communism in a nutshell.

There were communities that successfully lived by similar common law for quite some time, up until pretty recently in Utah and Colorado. I think that kind of ideal is easier for a community to live by if they are simply living to survive. With today's world, it's not survival we work for(well, some of us do), but it's largely the toys, gadgets, prestige, etc...
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Willoweed
Posts: 150
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11/28/2011 7:11:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/28/2011 11:45:39 AM, ianspigler wrote:
To begin my point, Karl Marx believed that job specialization would make everyone happy. But, the problem with that is: what do you define as happy? Everyone has their own definition of happiness, some people are happy with their job, some people are happy spending time with their kids. Second, in a communist society were you have equal distribution of wealth you have no incentive to work. Then you have a small amount of people working for a large amount of people doing nothing. Third, Karl Marx advocated for the destruction of religion, which in reality can never happen for you will always have people who strongly believe in their religion no matter much you can prove them otherwise. Lastly, and most importantly in a communist society you put everyone's resources into a collective pool and distribute it. The problem you run into there is if there is something the country needs they have to take from that collective pool to pay for it, leaving the country bankrupt. Example: Ronald Regan increased defense spending because he knew the Soviet Union would try to spend more on there's, eventually the Soviet's ran out of money from there collective pool and went bankrupt and the government collapsed.And those are the problems of communism in a nutshell.

1)The equal distribution of wealth doesn't have to be so that non workers get a bunch of money. It could be a system were only workers get enough money to survive happily and non-workers are either conscripted to work or exempted from the system.
2)Most people who become doctors or professionals due for several reasons to avoid manual labor, prestige and to be richer than others. A "communist" system doesn't really need to be totally equal. Marx famous wrote from each his own to each his needs. That doesn't mean everyone gets to have a yacht, a an vacation house, an 4 cars.
3)He really advocated for the abolishment of religion so people would focus on the real conditions of the world and their own living conditions instead of some afterlife.
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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11/28/2011 8:33:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/28/2011 7:11:55 PM, Willoweed wrote:
At 11/28/2011 11:45:39 AM, ianspigler wrote:
To begin my point, Karl Marx believed that job specialization would make everyone happy. But, the problem with that is: what do you define as happy? Everyone has their own definition of happiness, some people are happy with their job, some people are happy spending time with their kids. Second, in a communist society were you have equal distribution of wealth you have no incentive to work. Then you have a small amount of people working for a large amount of people doing nothing. Third, Karl Marx advocated for the destruction of religion, which in reality can never happen for you will always have people who strongly believe in their religion no matter much you can prove them otherwise. Lastly, and most importantly in a communist society you put everyone's resources into a collective pool and distribute it. The problem you run into there is if there is something the country needs they have to take from that collective pool to pay for it, leaving the country bankrupt. Example: Ronald Regan increased defense spending because he knew the Soviet Union would try to spend more on there's, eventually the Soviet's ran out of money from there collective pool and went bankrupt and the government collapsed.And those are the problems of communism in a nutshell.

1)The equal distribution of wealth doesn't have to be so that non workers get a bunch of money. It could be a system were only workers get enough money to survive happily and non-workers are either conscripted to work or exempted from the system.

Well, this really isnt communism is it?

2)Most people who become doctors or professionals due for several reasons to avoid manual labor, prestige and to be richer than others. A "communist" system doesn't really need to be totally equal. Marx famous wrote from each his own to each his needs. That doesn't mean everyone gets to have a yacht, a an vacation house, an 4 cars.

By definition, communism is the abolishment of money, state, and private property...

3)He really advocated for the abolishment of religion so people would focus on the real conditions of the world and their own living conditions instead of some afterlife.

True... and why does this make people happier?
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unctarheels0417
Posts: 1
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11/28/2011 11:55:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I believe that Communism hinders invention and innovation, and altogether halts growth in fields such as medicine and technology. I don't completely agree that there is no incentive to work within a Communist society. Instead, there is no incentive to work HARD or to improve performance.
Homo_Sacer
Posts: 63
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11/29/2011 12:01:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/28/2011 11:55:04 PM, unctarheels0417 wrote:
I believe that Communism hinders invention and innovation, and altogether halts growth in fields such as medicine and technology. I don't completely agree that there is no incentive to work within a Communist society. Instead, there is no incentive to work HARD or to improve performance.

I think that this holds true only on the macro-level. While it is unlikely that communism would succeed on a grand scale, a micro-level "intentional living" arrangement would likely work, only because the individuals entering into that lifestyle are doing so both voluntarily and intentionally. The extent to which communes would find success is entirely contingent on the values and attitudes of the individuals entering into those arrangements, however.
Willoweed
Posts: 150
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11/29/2011 11:52:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/28/2011 8:33:05 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/28/2011 7:11:55 PM, Willoweed wrote:
At 11/28/2011 11:45:39 AM, ianspigler wrote:
To begin my point, Karl Marx believed that job specialization would make everyone happy. But, the problem with that is: what do you define as happy? Everyone has their own definition of happiness, some people are happy with their job, some people are happy spending time with their kids. Second, in a communist society were you have equal distribution of wealth you have no incentive to work. Then you have a small amount of people working for a large amount of people doing nothing. Third, Karl Marx advocated for the destruction of religion, which in reality can never happen for you will always have people who strongly believe in their religion no matter much you can prove them otherwise. Lastly, and most importantly in a communist society you put everyone's resources into a collective pool and distribute it. The problem you run into there is if there is something the country needs they have to take from that collective pool to pay for it, leaving the country bankrupt. Example: Ronald Regan increased defense spending because he knew the Soviet Union would try to spend more on there's, eventually the Soviet's ran out of money from there collective pool and went bankrupt and the government collapsed.And those are the problems of communism in a nutshell.

1)The equal distribution of wealth doesn't have to be so that non workers get a bunch of money. It could be a system were only workers get enough money to survive happily and non-workers are either conscripted to work or exempted from the system.


Well, this really isnt communism is it?
It depends who you ask, as with a lot of things



2)Most people who become doctors or professionals due for several reasons to avoid manual labor, prestige and to be richer than others. A "communist" system doesn't really need to be totally equal. Marx famous wrote from each his own to each his needs. That doesn't mean everyone gets to have a yacht, a an vacation house, an 4 cars.


By definition, communism is the abolishment of money, state, and private property...
So did you read the communist manifesto and come to this conclusion or are you regurgitating?



3)He really advocated for the abolishment of religion so people would focus on the real conditions of the world and their own living conditions instead of some afterlife.


True... and why does this make people happier?
Because it makes them focus on things that they can improve.
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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11/29/2011 7:41:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/29/2011 11:52:16 AM, Willoweed wrote:
At 11/28/2011 8:33:05 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/28/2011 7:11:55 PM, Willoweed wrote:
At 11/28/2011 11:45:39 AM, ianspigler wrote:
To begin my point, Karl Marx believed that job specialization would make everyone happy. But, the problem with that is: what do you define as happy? Everyone has their own definition of happiness, some people are happy with their job, some people are happy spending time with their kids. Second, in a communist society were you have equal distribution of wealth you have no incentive to work. Then you have a small amount of people working for a large amount of people doing nothing. Third, Karl Marx advocated for the destruction of religion, which in reality can never happen for you will always have people who strongly believe in their religion no matter much you can prove them otherwise. Lastly, and most importantly in a communist society you put everyone's resources into a collective pool and distribute it. The problem you run into there is if there is something the country needs they have to take from that collective pool to pay for it, leaving the country bankrupt. Example: Ronald Regan increased defense spending because he knew the Soviet Union would try to spend more on there's, eventually the Soviet's ran out of money from there collective pool and went bankrupt and the government collapsed.And those are the problems of communism in a nutshell.

1)The equal distribution of wealth doesn't have to be so that non workers get a bunch of money. It could be a system were only workers get enough money to survive happily and non-workers are either conscripted to work or exempted from the system.


Well, this really isnt communism is it?
It depends who you ask, as with a lot of things

True, but I like to stick with widely accepted definitions




2)Most people who become doctors or professionals due for several reasons to avoid manual labor, prestige and to be richer than others. A "communist" system doesn't really need to be totally equal. Marx famous wrote from each his own to each his needs. That doesn't mean everyone gets to have a yacht, a an vacation house, an 4 cars.


By definition, communism is the abolishment of money, state, and private property...
So did you read the communist manifesto and come to this conclusion or are you regurgitating?

Ya, I am really stupid for "regurgitating" the widely accepted definition of communism, as said by the father of communism himself.




3)He really advocated for the abolishment of religion so people would focus on the real conditions of the world and their own living conditions instead of some afterlife.


True... and why does this make people happier?
Because it makes them focus on things that they can improve.

What if people are happier with Religion?
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Willoweed
Posts: 150
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12/1/2011 8:03:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/29/2011 7:41:11 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/29/2011 11:52:16 AM, Willoweed wrote:
At 11/28/2011 8:33:05 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/28/2011 7:11:55 PM, Willoweed wrote:
At 11/28/2011 11:45:39 AM, ianspigler wrote:
To begin my point, Karl Marx believed that job specialization would make everyone happy. But, the problem with that is: what do you define as happy? Everyone has their own definition of happiness, some people are happy with their job, some people are happy spending time with their kids. Second, in a communist society were you have equal distribution of wealth you have no incentive to work. Then you have a small amount of people working for a large amount of people doing nothing. Third, Karl Marx advocated for the destruction of religion, which in reality can never happen for you will always have people who strongly believe in their religion no matter much you can prove them otherwise. Lastly, and most importantly in a communist society you put everyone's resources into a collective pool and distribute it. The problem you run into there is if there is something the country needs they have to take from that collective pool to pay for it, leaving the country bankrupt. Example: Ronald Regan increased defense spending because he knew the Soviet Union would try to spend more on there's, eventually the Soviet's ran out of money from there collective pool and went bankrupt and the government collapsed.And those are the problems of communism in a nutshell.

1)The equal distribution of wealth doesn't have to be so that non workers get a bunch of money. It could be a system were only workers get enough money to survive happily and non-workers are either conscripted to work or exempted from the system.


Well, this really isnt communism is it?
It depends who you ask, as with a lot of things


True, but I like to stick with widely accepted definitions

Well the thing is that there are extremes to everything. Some polcies bring us closer to communism others bring us closer to anarchism/, some bring us closer to libertarianism. Weirdly though communism can still exist in a anarchist world.






2)Most people who become doctors or professionals due for several reasons to avoid manual labor, prestige and to be richer than others. A "communist" system doesn't really need to be totally equal. Marx famous wrote from each his own to each his needs. That doesn't mean everyone gets to have a yacht, a an vacation house, an 4 cars.


By definition, communism is the abolishment of money, state, and private property...
So did you read the communist manifesto and come to this conclusion or are you regurgitating?



Ya, I am really stupid for "regurgitating" the widely accepted definition of communism, as said by the father of communism himself.

NO you are really stupid for not actually reading Marx and acting like you have a clue about what he said. Basically all your knowledge depends on what other people say about Marx. You might feel fine fine knowing that you really are relying on others. If you actually readMarx and understood you would find that he defined things differnelty then what most people define them. Which is the reason of most misconceptions





3)He really advocated for the abolishment of religion so people would focus on the real conditions of the world and their own living conditions instead of some afterlife.


True... and why does this make people happier?
Because it makes them focus on things that they can improve.


What if people are happier with Religion?

In a society were problems are fixed people are happier then in a society were those problems just stay and grow
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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12/1/2011 8:36:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/1/2011 8:03:01 PM, Willoweed wrote:
At 11/29/2011 7:41:11 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/29/2011 11:52:16 AM, Willoweed wrote:
At 11/28/2011 8:33:05 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/28/2011 7:11:55 PM, Willoweed wrote:
At 11/28/2011 11:45:39 AM, ianspigler wrote:
To begin my point, Karl Marx believed that job specialization would make everyone happy. But, the problem with that is: what do you define as happy? Everyone has their own definition of happiness, some people are happy with their job, some people are happy spending time with their kids. Second, in a communist society were you have equal distribution of wealth you have no incentive to work. Then you have a small amount of people working for a large amount of people doing nothing. Third, Karl Marx advocated for the destruction of religion, which in reality can never happen for you will always have people who strongly believe in their religion no matter much you can prove them otherwise. Lastly, and most importantly in a communist society you put everyone's resources into a collective pool and distribute it. The problem you run into there is if there is something the country needs they have to take from that collective pool to pay for it, leaving the country bankrupt. Example: Ronald Regan increased defense spending because he knew the Soviet Union would try to spend more on there's, eventually the Soviet's ran out of money from there collective pool and went bankrupt and the government collapsed.And those are the problems of communism in a nutshell.

1)The equal distribution of wealth doesn't have to be so that non workers get a bunch of money. It could be a system were only workers get enough money to survive happily and non-workers are either conscripted to work or exempted from the system.


Well, this really isnt communism is it?
It depends who you ask, as with a lot of things


True, but I like to stick with widely accepted definitions

Well the thing is that there are extremes to everything. Some polcies bring us closer to communism others bring us closer to anarchism/, some bring us closer to libertarianism. Weirdly though communism can still exist in a anarchist world.

True communism is a form of anarchism







2)Most people who become doctors or professionals due for several reasons to avoid manual labor, prestige and to be richer than others. A "communist" system doesn't really need to be totally equal. Marx famous wrote from each his own to each his needs. That doesn't mean everyone gets to have a yacht, a an vacation house, an 4 cars.


By definition, communism is the abolishment of money, state, and private property...
So did you read the communist manifesto and come to this conclusion or are you regurgitating?



Ya, I am really stupid for "regurgitating" the widely accepted definition of communism, as said by the father of communism himself.

NO you are really stupid for not actually reading Marx and acting like you have a clue about what he said. Basically all your knowledge depends on what other people say about Marx. You might feel fine fine knowing that you really are relying on others. If you actually readMarx and understood you would find that he defined things differnelty then what most people define them. Which is the reason of most misconceptions

I'm glad you explained it to me... Oh, no you didnt explain anything






3)He really advocated for the abolishment of religion so people would focus on the real conditions of the world and their own living conditions instead of some afterlife.


True... and why does this make people happier?
Because it makes them focus on things that they can improve.


What if people are happier with Religion?

In a society were problems are fixed people are happier then in a society were those problems just stay and grow

How do you know?
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DanT
Posts: 5,693
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12/1/2011 9:17:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/1/2011 8:36:36 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 12/1/2011 8:03:01 PM, Willoweed wrote:
At 11/29/2011 7:41:11 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/29/2011 11:52:16 AM, Willoweed wrote:
At 11/28/2011 8:33:05 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/28/2011 7:11:55 PM, Willoweed wrote:
At 11/28/2011 11:45:39 AM, ianspigler wrote:
To begin my point, Karl Marx believed that job specialization would make everyone happy. But, the problem with that is: what do you define as happy? Everyone has their own definition of happiness, some people are happy with their job, some people are happy spending time with their kids. Second, in a communist society were you have equal distribution of wealth you have no incentive to work. Then you have a small amount of people working for a large amount of people doing nothing. Third, Karl Marx advocated for the destruction of religion, which in reality can never happen for you will always have people who strongly believe in their religion no matter much you can prove them otherwise. Lastly, and most importantly in a communist society you put everyone's resources into a collective pool and distribute it. The problem you run into there is if there is something the country needs they have to take from that collective pool to pay for it, leaving the country bankrupt. Example: Ronald Regan increased defense spending because he knew the Soviet Union would try to spend more on there's, eventually the Soviet's ran out of money from there collective pool and went bankrupt and the government collapsed.And those are the problems of communism in a nutshell.

1)The equal distribution of wealth doesn't have to be so that non workers get a bunch of money. It could be a system were only workers get enough money to survive happily and non-workers are either conscripted to work or exempted from the system.


Well, this really isnt communism is it?
It depends who you ask, as with a lot of things


True, but I like to stick with widely accepted definitions

Well the thing is that there are extremes to everything. Some polcies bring us closer to communism others bring us closer to anarchism/, some bring us closer to libertarianism. Weirdly though communism can still exist in a anarchist world.


True communism is a form of anarchism

Communism is the abolishment of private property, as well as socioeconomic classes.
Communism is a form of socialism, but not all socialists are communists.

Socialism the the direct opposite of Classic Liberalism
Anarchy is the direct opposite of Nationalism
Progressivism is the direct opposite of Conservatism.

Anarchism and Classic Liberalism are both forms of Libertarianism.
Anarchism is Left wing Libertarian
Classic Liberalism is Right Wing Libertarian

Anarchism can be Anarcho-communism, anarcho-socialism, anarcho-capitalism, or any other form of anarchy that you can think of.

Socialism and Nationalism are both froms of Fascism
Socialism is Left wing Fascism
Nationalism is Right wing Fascism

Socialism (and Nationalism) only becomes Fascism when the state is involved. Anarcho-socialism are anti-state, and in turn are against socialist states. One example of this would be George Orwell, who was a utopian Socialist, yet based his book 1984 on the Labour Party, and the Attlee administration. (1984=1948)
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle