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My Tax Plan (for USA)

jimtimmy
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12/18/2011 12:29:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Okay, my first choice for a tax plan would be to abolish all taxation. However, I am talking about a more immediate and politically palatable tax plan. Here it is:

Jimtimmy Tax Plan

1.) Abolish all Capital Taxation (Interest, Dividends, Capital Gains, etc.)-- Capital taxation is highly innefficient. It discourages investment and savings, which are key to economic growth. It also keeps investors from investing in our country. Finally, capital taxation is a double tax, as the income has already been taxed before.

2.) Abolish the Estate Tax (and the Related Gift Tax)-- The estate tax is also highly innefficient. It encourages tax planning near death, to avoid this tax. Plus, it encourages people to retire earlier, work less, and save and invest less near their death, because their kids will inherit less. It also encourages rich people to leave countries with high estate taxes. And, of course, the estate tax is the worst kind of double taxation, as the income that is taxed has already been taxed numerous times during life.

3.) Cut the Corporate Tax Rate from 35% to 15%-- The US's high statutory corporate tax rate (much higher than supposedly socialist European nations) is extremely harmful to economic growth. Their is a vast academic literature confirming this negative effect on growth. Quite frankly, the corporate tax keeps companies from coming to America and the ones that do have less incentive to reinvest. And, it keeps companies from having the proper capital it takes to reinvest.

4.) Cut the Income Tax 20% Accross the Board from 35%, 33%, 28%, 25%, 15%, and 10% to 28%, 26%, 20%, 12%, and 8%-- The income tax decreases labor supply, entrepeunership, and business investment. This is because this tax affects both labor income and business income. This means that higher income tax rates mean less labor and less business, because there is less incentive to do these things. And, there is also less money for small businesses to reinvest if all their capital is taxed away. Higher rates also increase incentive to dodge taxes and cause "brain drain". "Brain drain" is where high skilled workers leave high tax and high regulation places for lower tax jurisdictions. In our increasingly global world, this is a real reality.

5.) Abolish the AMT-- The AMT was a profoundly stupid tax to begin with. It was meant to tax "the rich". However, it ended up just hitting the middle class. There shouldn't be a special tax code for different groups. This tax did nothing but harm and it should be abolished.

6.) Switch to a Territorial Taxation System-- This is a fairly common sense change. Income earned overseas should not be taxed. That is highly innefficient, and it is a form of protectionism. It also means foreign income is frequently getting taxed twice. This keeps investors and high skilled workers from coming to America, as they do not want to be taxed twice. It also means that other countries will likely put up tax walls too, just like tariffs put up in response to another countries tariffs.

7.) Make All of these Tax Changs Permanent-- One of the main problems with the Bush tax cuts is that they were not permanent. Investors and businesses make decisions with the long term in mind. We need to have permanence in our tax code.

8.) Require a 2/3 Majority in Both Congressional Chambers to Pass Any Tax Increase-- To create more stability and permanence in our tax code, we should require a 2/3 majority in both congressional chambers to raise taxes. This would protect US citizens from constant tax hikes. It would also give businesses and investors a sense of stability and certainty that massive tax hikes won't take place in the USA.

I understand that there are many criticisms of these changes. One criticism will be that they benefit the rich. Well, it just so happens that the rich are the businesses, investors, and high skilled workers. Taxing the rich into not working, investing, or even staying in our country is not going to help anyone.

If anything, we want to have a tax code that attracts these people, that is businesses, investors, and high skilled workers.

Another problem people will point out is that these changes would probably reduce revenue, which would increase deficits. I would point out in response that these changes would significantly increase economic growth. This means that these tax changes would not have a big impact on revenue because much of the initial loss in revenue would be made up for by increasing tax revenues from stronger economic growth.

Also, the real problem the USA has is spending far too much. The real thing that needs to be done is substantial entitlement reform that brings market reforms to entitlements, along with large cuts in domestic spending.

Along with these substantal spending cuts, this tax plan will restore both fiscal sanity and economic growth to the USA for a long time.
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jimtimmy
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12/18/2011 12:37:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
*CORRECTION

3.) Cut Income Tax 20% Across the Board from 35%, 33%, 28%, 25%, 15%, and 10% to 28%, 26%, 22%, 20%, 12%, and 8%
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jimtimmy
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12/18/2011 12:38:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
**CORRECTION

4.) Cut Income Tax 20% Across the Board from 35%, 33%, 28%, 25%, 15%, and 10% to 28%, 26%, 22%, 20%, 12%, and 8%
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Mirza
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12/18/2011 5:23:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Nobody here cares about that. Quick fact: abolishing something doesn't necessarily get rid of any problem. Tax cuts without a purpose is meaningless.

http://answers.usa.gov...

Copy-paste there. Have a nice day.
jimtimmy
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12/18/2011 5:35:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 5:23:54 PM, Mirza wrote:
Nobody here cares about that. Quick fact: abolishing something doesn't necessarily get rid of any problem. Tax cuts without a purpose is meaningless.

http://answers.usa.gov...

Copy-paste there. Have a nice day.

Some people care and the purpose is to help the economy.
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comoncents
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12/18/2011 6:41:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This would not work. Cutting taxes is not the answer. Crazy, supply side argument that lacks intellectually prodigious fact.
jimtimmy
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12/18/2011 7:02:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 6:41:06 PM, comoncents wrote:
This would not work. Cutting taxes is not the answer. Crazy, supply side argument that lacks intellectually prodigious fact.

"Crazy Supply Side Argument"

I explained why all of these tax changes make sense. The fact is that people do respond to incentives, including taxes. You didn't even attempt to respond to any of the points I made.
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comoncents
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12/18/2011 7:45:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 7:02:10 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 12/18/2011 6:41:06 PM, comoncents wrote:
This would not work. Cutting taxes is not the answer. Crazy, supply side argument that lacks intellectually prodigious fact.


I explained why all of these tax changes make sense. The fact is that people do respond to incentives, including taxes.

Evidence? Real evidence...? Where...? None...

You didn't even attempt to respond to any of the points I made.
16kadams
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12/18/2011 7:45:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I like the plan, but mine fixes the tax code.

1. Not a flat tax, a 3 stage tax

The people making 200,000$ or more will get a 20% tax rate, flat.
People making 60,000$-200,000$ get a 10% tax rate
People below the poverty line don't get taxed

2. Decrease the estate tax

Your plan wouldn't get passed due to the democrats, I made a compromise, lower it by 50%

3. Abolish the capital Taxation

Well that explains itself, and I do not need to compromise everywhere, this is like tours

4. Decrease the corporate tax

Mine cuts it more, 35%-9%. I took the 9 from herman cai's brilliant flat tax, but although his was not perfect, that number was a good pick. It will help business because a low tax = more money, more money = hire more workers

5. Also abolish AMT

for the same reasons

6. ALso agree with the territorial system you have

7. Make these bills permanent (like yours)

but here's the change, this bill can be overdone by a repeal, so it can be changed and such. I am letting it be repealable so democracy can evict former policies that may not be favorable 20 years from now.

8. A 2/3 MAJORITY IN CONGRESS FOR CHANGES

Other than a repeal, if one wanted to change the bill it needs 2/3 to change it, so that the majority of the people would most likely agree with it.

9. Extra tax breaks for small business

We know that these people make most of the jobs in america, so a 5% tax break on top of their income. If their in poverty then they dont get this.

10. Abolish the payroll tax

A tax reduction on this is dumb because their paid in dumb ways, but abolishing it lowers taxes and gets rid of "how do we pay for it"

11. Cut spending along with this

Cut spending in all areas, and freeze spending for the army, don't cut it, but freeze it in place so it can stay the same. So the tax breaks above get paid for.

Thank you.
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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
comoncents
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12/18/2011 7:47:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I read it, but nothing posed as actual evidence. I thought you were just spouting opinion because of the irrelevance of the claim you posed...
jimtimmy
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12/18/2011 7:53:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 7:47:40 PM, comoncents wrote:
I read it, but nothing posed as actual evidence. I thought you were just spouting opinion because of the irrelevance of the claim you posed...

I'll find more and better... but here is a sample of "evidence":

http://www.house.gov...
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16kadams
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12/18/2011 7:55:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
no one likes my plan :(
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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
jimtimmy
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12/18/2011 7:58:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 7:45:56 PM, 16kadams wrote:
I like the plan, but mine fixes the tax code.

1. Not a flat tax, a 3 stage tax

The people making 200,000$ or more will get a 20% tax rate, flat.
People making 60,000$-200,000$ get a 10% tax rate
People below the poverty line don't get taxed

Like it. But, are deductions and credits eliminated?

Mine doesn't eliminate these because it would too politically hard to do, because that would technically be a middle class tax hike. But still, I like this plan

The only thing here is that my 20% accross the board cut may be a bit more politically possible, as it is a less dramatic change.

But, this is still good


2. Decrease the estate tax

Your plan wouldn't get passed due to the democrats, I made a compromise, lower it by 50%

Good point, but a Republican majority and Pres is possible in 2008... the Estate tax was abolished in for a couple years in 2009 and 2010... It could be abolshed again


3. Abolish the capital Taxation

Well that explains itself, and I do not need to compromise everywhere, this is like tours

lol, agreed


4. Decrease the corporate tax

Mine cuts it more, 35%-9%. I took the 9 from herman cai's brilliant flat tax, but although his was not perfect, that number was a good pick. It will help business because a low tax = more money, more money = hire more workers

9% is good for me to. I picked 15% because it seemed like a good number. 9% is good to.


5. Also abolish AMT

for the same reasons

agreed


6. ALso agree with the territorial system you have

sweet


7. Make these bills permanent (like yours)

but here's the change, this bill can be overdone by a repeal, so it can be changed and such. I am letting it be repealable so democracy can evict former policies that may not be favorable 20 years from now.

I mean permanent as in it does not automatically expire as the Bush tax cuts did. Obiously, it can be changed... but they will stay in place UNLESS they are changed


8. A 2/3 MAJORITY IN CONGRESS FOR CHANGES

Nice


Other than a repeal, if one wanted to change the bill it needs 2/3 to change it, so that the majority of the people would most likely agree with it.

9. Extra tax breaks for small business

We know that these people make most of the jobs in america, so a 5% tax break on top of their income. If their in poverty then they dont get this.

Kind of disagree here, this seems too targeted for me, but has some potential


10. Abolish the payroll tax

A tax reduction on this is dumb because their paid in dumb ways, but abolishing it lowers taxes and gets rid of "how do we pay for it"

Would you abolish SS too?


11. Cut spending along with this

Cut spending in all areas, and freeze spending for the army, don't cut it, but freeze it in place so it can stay the same. So the tax breaks above get paid for.

Good


Thank you.

Like the plan... very solid ideas
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comoncents
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12/18/2011 8:00:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 7:53:05 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 12/18/2011 7:47:40 PM, comoncents wrote:
I read it, but nothing posed as actual evidence. I thought you were just spouting opinion because of the irrelevance of the claim you posed...

I'll find more and better... but here is a sample of "evidence":

http://www.house.gov...

HaHa! I did not know that with using the word evidence I had to specify causal vs correlation!!! I see that you are less about fact, and more about ideology. No need to go on. Go to school; learn something, and then come back. WOW!!!
CosmicAlfonzo
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12/18/2011 8:00:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why not no income tax?
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jimtimmy
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12/18/2011 8:04:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 8:00:01 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 12/18/2011 7:53:05 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 12/18/2011 7:47:40 PM, comoncents wrote:
I read it, but nothing posed as actual evidence. I thought you were just spouting opinion because of the irrelevance of the claim you posed...

I'll find more and better... but here is a sample of "evidence":

http://www.house.gov...

HaHa! I did not know that with using the word evidence I had to specify causal vs correlation!!! I see that you are less about fact, and more about ideology. No need to go on. Go to school; learn something, and then come back. WOW!!!

At least I provided something... that is more than can be said for you... there was a online paper that summarized a bunch of literature a while back... I am looking for that, but I cant find it...
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jimtimmy
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12/18/2011 8:05:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 8:00:28 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Why not no income tax?

That is my first choice... But, this is more realistic at the moment.
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16kadams
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12/18/2011 8:09:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 7:58:00 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 12/18/2011 7:45:56 PM, 16kadams wrote:
I like the plan, but mine fixes the tax code.

1. Not a flat tax, a 3 stage tax

The people making 200,000$ or more will get a 20% tax rate, flat.
People making 60,000$-200,000$ get a 10% tax rate
People below the poverty line don't get taxed



Like it. But, are deductions and credits eliminated?


Mine doesn't eliminate these because it would too politically hard to do, because that would technically be a middle class tax hike. But still, I like this plan

The only thing here is that my 20% accross the board cut may be a bit more politically possible, as it is a less dramatic change.

But, this is still good


2. Decrease the estate tax

Your plan wouldn't get passed due to the democrats, I made a compromise, lower it by 50%


Good point, but a Republican majority and Pres is possible in 2008... the Estate tax was abolished in for a couple years in 2009 and 2010... It could be abolshed again



3. Abolish the capital Taxation

Well that explains itself, and I do not need to compromise everywhere, this is like tours


lol, agreed


4. Decrease the corporate tax

Mine cuts it more, 35%-9%. I took the 9 from herman cai's brilliant flat tax, but although his was not perfect, that number was a good pick. It will help business because a low tax = more money, more money = hire more workers




9% is good for me to. I picked 15% because it seemed like a good number. 9% is good to.



5. Also abolish AMT

for the same reasons


agreed


6. ALso agree with the territorial system you have


sweet


7. Make these bills permanent (like yours)

but here's the change, this bill can be overdone by a repeal, so it can be changed and such. I am letting it be repealable so democracy can evict former policies that may not be favorable 20 years from now.



I mean permanent as in it does not automatically expire as the Bush tax cuts did. Obiously, it can be changed... but they will stay in place UNLESS they are changed



8. A 2/3 MAJORITY IN CONGRESS FOR CHANGES

Nice


Other than a repeal, if one wanted to change the bill it needs 2/3 to change it, so that the majority of the people would most likely agree with it.

9. Extra tax breaks for small business

We know that these people make most of the jobs in america, so a 5% tax break on top of their income. If their in poverty then they dont get this.

Kind of disagree here, this seems too targeted for me, but has some potential



10. Abolish the payroll tax

A tax reduction on this is dumb because their paid in dumb ways, but abolishing it lowers taxes and gets rid of "how do we pay for it"


Would you abolish SS too?


11. Cut spending along with this

Cut spending in all areas, and freeze spending for the army, don't cut it, but freeze it in place so it can stay the same. So the tax breaks above get paid for.


Good


Thank you.


Like the plan... very solid ideas

No the credits and such are not eliminated, for that reason.

The estate tax could be abolished, but it would be hard. And more people would agree with it if it wasn't a full kill.

I agree with your permanent then.

Why disagree with the small business tax break, it would get this economy going. It wasn't targeted for you, it was a economic statement.

Ok so we kinda agree on my cooperate tax.

No SS wouldn't be abolished because it is already supposedly paid for in the income taxes, the payroll tax is just used to give the government more money.

Our plans are similar, but mine is tweaked with more extremes on the cooperate tax and such. We seem to agree economically most of the time.

I forgot to add the last part:

Make it illegal for the labor unions to tax investments like they already do, so helping lower regulations and taxes on new buildings.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
jimtimmy
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12/18/2011 8:22:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago

No the credits and such are not eliminated, for that reason.

I don't love the credits and stuff, but we have to be realistic.



The estate tax could be abolished, but it would be hard. And more people would agree with it if it wasn't a full kill.

True, I would be willing to take a bit more of a risk here and go ahead for the full abolishment.


I agree with your permanent then.

Cool


Why disagree with the small business tax break, it would get this economy going. It wasn't targeted for you, it was a economic statement.

When I said targeted, I meant that it was a tax cut aimed a certain group. I didn't mean targeted at me, lol.

This is a solid idea, but I would just rather give an accross the board tax cut to workers too.


Ok so we kinda agree on my cooperate tax.

Ya


No SS wouldn't be abolished because it is already supposedly paid for in the income taxes, the payroll tax is just used to give the government more money.

Okay, my plan doesn't really address the payroll tax. I would like to see major entitlement reform, including personal accounts in SS.


Our plans are similar, but mine is tweaked with more extremes on the cooperate tax and such. We seem to agree economically most of the time.

Ya, definitley.


I forgot to add the last part:

Make it illegal for the labor unions to tax investments like they already do, so helping lower regulations and taxes on new buildings.

Ya. I was gonna add a regulatory plan (and I may at some point)...

The best thing we can do for the economy right now is Repeal Obamacare which has tons of taxes and regulations... and it kills the certainty that businesses need because it is 2700 pages long... and small businesses don't have time to read and understand that.
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16kadams
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12/18/2011 8:37:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 8:22:34 PM, jimtimmy wrote:

No the credits and such are not eliminated, for that reason.



I don't love the credits and stuff, but we have to be realistic.




The estate tax could be abolished, but it would be hard. And more people would agree with it if it wasn't a full kill.


True, I would be willing to take a bit more of a risk here and go ahead for the full abolishment.




I agree with your permanent then.

Cool



Why disagree with the small business tax break, it would get this economy going. It wasn't targeted for you, it was a economic statement.



When I said targeted, I meant that it was a tax cut aimed a certain group. I didn't mean targeted at me, lol.

This is a solid idea, but I would just rather give an accross the board tax cut to workers too.


Ok so we kinda agree on my cooperate tax.


Ya


No SS wouldn't be abolished because it is already supposedly paid for in the income taxes, the payroll tax is just used to give the government more money.



Okay, my plan doesn't really address the payroll tax. I would like to see major entitlement reform, including personal accounts in SS.



Our plans are similar, but mine is tweaked with more extremes on the cooperate tax and such. We seem to agree economically most of the time.


Ya, definitley.



I forgot to add the last part:

Make it illegal for the labor unions to tax investments like they already do, so helping lower regulations and taxes on new buildings.



Ya. I was gonna add a regulatory plan (and I may at some point)...


The best thing we can do for the economy right now is Repeal Obamacare which has tons of taxes and regulations... and it kills the certainty that businesses need because it is 2700 pages long... and small businesses don't have time to read and understand that.

well tax changes (out plans sound good), repeal obamacare, repeal obama's new 500 regulations, make sure the unions cant tax investments and regulate things making it harder for business to hire etc. Also we need to free up the market. So once again, we agree almost completely economically. Since your a libertarian, socially, maybe less.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
jimtimmy
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12/18/2011 8:47:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 8:37:21 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 12/18/2011 8:22:34 PM, jimtimmy wrote:

No the credits and such are not eliminated, for that reason.



I don't love the credits and stuff, but we have to be realistic.




The estate tax could be abolished, but it would be hard. And more people would agree with it if it wasn't a full kill.


True, I would be willing to take a bit more of a risk here and go ahead for the full abolishment.




I agree with your permanent then.

Cool



Why disagree with the small business tax break, it would get this economy going. It wasn't targeted for you, it was a economic statement.



When I said targeted, I meant that it was a tax cut aimed a certain group. I didn't mean targeted at me, lol.

This is a solid idea, but I would just rather give an accross the board tax cut to workers too.


Ok so we kinda agree on my cooperate tax.


Ya


No SS wouldn't be abolished because it is already supposedly paid for in the income taxes, the payroll tax is just used to give the government more money.



Okay, my plan doesn't really address the payroll tax. I would like to see major entitlement reform, including personal accounts in SS.



Our plans are similar, but mine is tweaked with more extremes on the cooperate tax and such. We seem to agree economically most of the time.


Ya, definitley.



I forgot to add the last part:

Make it illegal for the labor unions to tax investments like they already do, so helping lower regulations and taxes on new buildings.



Ya. I was gonna add a regulatory plan (and I may at some point)...


The best thing we can do for the economy right now is Repeal Obamacare which has tons of taxes and regulations... and it kills the certainty that businesses need because it is 2700 pages long... and small businesses don't have time to read and understand that.

well tax changes (out plans sound good), repeal obamacare, repeal obama's new 500 regulations, make sure the unions cant tax investments and regulate things making it harder for business to hire etc. Also we need to free up the market. So once again, we agree almost completely economically. Since your a libertarian, socially, maybe less.

Ya, also repeal Dodd-Frank, Sarbanes-Oxley, and the Community Reinvestment Act.... Major spending cuts so we can get less debt (debt is a huge driver of uncertainty)... Control the money supply so we don't get 1970s style inflation... Reign in unions... More free trade

Ya, I would think we agree on virtually everything economically... We are closer than you would expect socially too
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16kadams
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12/18/2011 9:12:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 8:47:39 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 12/18/2011 8:37:21 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 12/18/2011 8:22:34 PM, jimtimmy wrote:

No the credits and such are not eliminated, for that reason.



I don't love the credits and stuff, but we have to be realistic.




The estate tax could be abolished, but it would be hard. And more people would agree with it if it wasn't a full kill.


True, I would be willing to take a bit more of a risk here and go ahead for the full abolishment.




I agree with your permanent then.

Cool



Why disagree with the small business tax break, it would get this economy going. It wasn't targeted for you, it was a economic statement.



When I said targeted, I meant that it was a tax cut aimed a certain group. I didn't mean targeted at me, lol.

This is a solid idea, but I would just rather give an accross the board tax cut to workers too.


Ok so we kinda agree on my cooperate tax.


Ya


No SS wouldn't be abolished because it is already supposedly paid for in the income taxes, the payroll tax is just used to give the government more money.



Okay, my plan doesn't really address the payroll tax. I would like to see major entitlement reform, including personal accounts in SS.



Our plans are similar, but mine is tweaked with more extremes on the cooperate tax and such. We seem to agree economically most of the time.


Ya, definitley.



I forgot to add the last part:

Make it illegal for the labor unions to tax investments like they already do, so helping lower regulations and taxes on new buildings.



Ya. I was gonna add a regulatory plan (and I may at some point)...


The best thing we can do for the economy right now is Repeal Obamacare which has tons of taxes and regulations... and it kills the certainty that businesses need because it is 2700 pages long... and small businesses don't have time to read and understand that.

well tax changes (out plans sound good), repeal obamacare, repeal obama's new 500 regulations, make sure the unions cant tax investments and regulate things making it harder for business to hire etc. Also we need to free up the market. So once again, we agree almost completely economically. Since your a libertarian, socially, maybe less.


Ya, also repeal Dodd-Frank, Sarbanes-Oxley, and the Community Reinvestment Act.... Major spending cuts so we can get less debt (debt is a huge driver of uncertainty)... Control the money supply so we don't get 1970s style inflation... Reign in unions... More free trade

Ya, I would think we agree on virtually everything economically... We are closer than you would expect socially too

agreed
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Double_R
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12/19/2011 2:15:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 8:22:34 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
The best thing we can do for the economy right now is Repeal Obamacare which has tons of taxes and regulations... and it kills the certainty that businesses need because it is 2700 pages long... and small businesses don't have time to read and understand that.

Businesses do not sit around reading federal laws and regulations, they do what they know... run their businesses. I operate 2 S-corps. When I have a legal question I do what every other small business owner does, I call my lawyer.

In regards to your tax plan I must ask; If you could actually implement this plan how would you make up for the billions that will be added to the national deficit as a result?
jimtimmy
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12/19/2011 7:39:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/19/2011 2:15:43 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 12/18/2011 8:22:34 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
The best thing we can do for the economy right now is Repeal Obamacare which has tons of taxes and regulations... and it kills the certainty that businesses need because it is 2700 pages long... and small businesses don't have time to read and understand that.

Businesses do not sit around reading federal laws and regulations, they do what they know... run their businesses. I operate 2 S-corps. When I have a legal question I do what every other small business owner does, I call my lawyer.

In regards to your tax plan I must ask; If you could actually implement this plan how would you make up for the billions that will be added to the national deficit as a result?

So you think certainty plays no role... Of course it does. Businesses aren't gonna reinvest if there is threat of massive inflation or massive taxation or massive regulation. They have no incentive and no reason too. And, it isn't a good thing that they have to spend money on a lawyer.

And, I would make up for the revenue loss by stronger economic growth which comes as a result of the tax cuts and massive spending cuts.
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Double_R
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12/19/2011 1:57:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/19/2011 7:39:01 AM, jimtimmy wrote:
So you think certainty plays no role... Of course it does. Businesses aren't gonna reinvest if there is threat of massive inflation or massive taxation or massive regulation. They have no incentive and no reason too. And, it isn't a good thing that they have to spend money on a lawyer.

Every small business owner has a lawyer. Spending money on a lawyer is bad for a small business, it is not bad for the economy. Lawyers are real jobs, and the people they hire are real jobs too. The money spent on them does not disappear because it doesn't fit your views.

Certainty plays a large role. The threat of "massive" taxation and regulation is one that is over exaggerated by conservatives so that they can blame it on democrats to win elections. The sad thing is that it apparently works. Their Chicken Little style ranting about it no doubt plays just as big a role in uncertainty as anything else.

Business owners will invest if it is sensible to do so. Warren Buffet explains:

"I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone — not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 — shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain."
http://www.nytimes.com...

And, I would make up for the revenue loss by stronger economic growth which comes as a result of the tax cuts and massive spending cuts.

I suppose you are going to tell me what a massive failure the Clinton tax increases were on the economy, and how wonderfully things worked out from the Bush tax cuts. You are badly misguided if you think that revenue would remain unchanged under your tax plan. Revenue would decrease significantly. As a result you would either drive the country in even deeper debt, or be forced to massively cut spending. My question to you is; what would you cut? And after you answer that question then tell me; how will that affect the economy?
jimtimmy
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12/19/2011 2:27:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/19/2011 1:57:24 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 12/19/2011 7:39:01 AM, jimtimmy wrote:
So you think certainty plays no role... Of course it does. Businesses aren't gonna reinvest if there is threat of massive inflation or massive taxation or massive regulation. They have no incentive and no reason too. And, it isn't a good thing that they have to spend money on a lawyer.

Every small business owner has a lawyer. Spending money on a lawyer is bad for a small business, it is not bad for the economy. Lawyers are real jobs, and the people they hire are real jobs too. The money spent on them does not disappear because it doesn't fit your views.

Ah, the famous broken window fallacy. Yes, lawyers are jobs. But capital is much better spent being reinvested into more productive ways. Investing in new workers or better equipment is more efficient way for businesses to invest.

Plus, the more expensive it is to start a small business, the less there will be


Certainty plays a large role. The threat of "massive" taxation and regulation is one that is over exaggerated by conservatives so that they can blame it on democrats to win elections. The sad thing is that it apparently works. Their Chicken Little style ranting about it no doubt plays just as big a role in uncertainty as anything else.

Obama is the one who has passed numerous bills, with thousands of pages each, that massively increase the regulatory state. Obama is also the one who goes out on a daily basis and uses class warfare rhetoric to win elections, killing jobs along the way.


Business owners will invest if it is sensible to do so. Warren Buffet explains:

"I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone — not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 — shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain."
http://www.nytimes.com...

Ya, and it is not sensible to invest in something when any potential gain will be taxed 80%. You didn't think that through did you.

And, the actual data shows that rich people are highly responsive to tax rates:

http://economics21.org...

And, Warren Buffet's op-ed was full of BS:

http://marginalcost-jim.blogspot.com...


And, I would make up for the revenue loss by stronger economic growth which comes as a result of the tax cuts and massive spending cuts.

I suppose you are going to tell me what a massive failure the Clinton tax increases were on the economy, and how wonderfully things worked out from the Bush tax cuts. You are badly misguided if you think that revenue would remain unchanged under your tax plan. Revenue would decrease significantly. As a result you would either drive the country in even deeper debt, or be forced to massively cut spending. My question to you is; what would you cut? And after you answer that question then tell me; how will that affect the economy?

Clinton Tax hikes... ever heard of the Tech Boom... plus the 1990s had capital gains tax cuts, spending cuts, and free trade. So, there were a lot of reasons that the economy did well in the 1990s.

The Bush tax cuts were poorly designed because they were temporary and largely based on credits. The 2003 cuts were better and growth came back right after they were implemented. Still, to be fully effective, tax cuts need to be permanent.

Yes, stronger economic growth will make up SOME of the revenue, not all of it.

I would cut entitlements harshly. I would also cut domestic spending harshly. I would eliminate many departments and programs, and reduce entitlements a lot.

This, along with tax cuts, will have a very good effect on the economy. Smaller government and lower taxes ALWAYS mean a better economy. That is a universal rule.
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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12/19/2011 2:33:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/19/2011 1:57:24 PM, Double_R wrote:

Every small business owner has a lawyer. Spending money on a lawyer is bad for a small business, it is not bad for the economy. Lawyers are real jobs, and the people they hire are real jobs too. The money spent on them does not disappear because it doesn't fit your views.

So If we spend money on people digging ditches, and another group filling them back together, that's considered good for the economy since "real" jobs are created.

The money on them doesn't "disappear" but that's only If you think of things on a monetary level. What that means, I don't even know. But rather than there is a loss of opportunity cost while resources are spent on lawyers, those resources could be spent on real goods and services that people value more.

Certainty plays a large role. The threat of "massive" taxation and regulation is one that is over exaggerated by conservatives so that they can blame it on democrats to win elections.

Really? You honestly don't see how regulations create barriers to entry, and drive up cost. And its just "exaggerated" just so they can play the "blame" game. Get real. Based on your logic, no normal person should believe that regulations and "massive" taxation are bad, since few people run for election. After all, its so that they can get elected, right? Why then would a normal person who has no interest in running think this then?

Different industries have different regulations. Some are more regulated then others. Currently we have over 70,000 pages of regulations.

"The sad thing is that it apparently works. Their Chicken Little style ranting about it no doubt plays just as big a role in uncertainty as anything else.

I'm sure that the strategy of ad homenium attacks works much better :p. I already told you about the info above.


Business owners will invest if it is sensible to do so. Warren Buffet explains:

"I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone — not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 — shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain."
http://www.nytimes.com...


I honestly don't trust a word from Warren Buffet. He's slimey to me. I can't prove it, but I think he supports Obama to gain inside information. Some of the stuff he says is really up the wall.

I suppose you are going to tell me what a massive failure the Clinton tax increases were on the economy, and how wonderfully things worked out from the Bush tax cuts. You are badly misguided if you think that revenue would remain unchanged under your tax plan. Revenue would decrease significantly. As a result you would either drive the country in even deeper debt, or be forced to massively cut spending. My question to you is; what would you cut? And after you answer that question then tell me; how will that affect the economy?

Your cherry picking. You can't use single points of data as strong evidence when there are multiple variables effecting things. Otherwise, didn't Reagan's tax cuts create economic prosperity? Both answers can't be simultaneous correct otherwise that's a contradiction.

Also wasn't the Clinton era of prosperity a result of unsustainable tech market bubble?
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16kadams
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12/19/2011 2:35:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/19/2011 2:15:43 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 12/18/2011 8:22:34 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
The best thing we can do for the economy right now is Repeal Obamacare which has tons of taxes and regulations... and it kills the certainty that businesses need because it is 2700 pages long... and small businesses don't have time to read and understand that.

Businesses do not sit around reading federal laws and regulations, they do what they know... run their businesses. I operate 2 S-corps. When I have a legal question I do what every other small business owner does, I call my lawyer.

In regards to your tax plan I must ask; If you could actually implement this plan how would you make up for the billions that will be added to the national deficit as a result?

they have to or else they can get arrested. They do read the laws, all 200,000 of them to make sure they are not committing felonies. You don't understand small business, my dad's doctors office is considered one. And he has to be careful because of all of the dumb regulation. They constrict business growth.
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