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Plagiarism Policy

000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/18/2011 5:38:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think that plagiarism is an overrated crime, and the punishment is borderline draconian (http://www.ehow.com...)

Now I'm not against the protection of intellectual property, I'm just against what is defined as plagiarism and what this relatively petty crime has the power to destroy.

1. Something is not plagiarism if it gives the source of the information. If a writer or students forgets quotes but cites the source, that is not plagiarism. It is a misdemeanor, but it is not plagiarism. As such, the most that should happen is a recall of the books until its corrected, or a grade down for the student.

2. Plagiarism is not that serious. Its like stealing a candy bar. The controversy it causes is an utter overreaction.

3. A student should not be expelled for plagiarism, and should not have that on permanent record. Destroying people's lives is no light matter, and its not the kind of consequence you hand out so liberally. A mistake (which many plagiarism "accusations" are) just should not have this much potential to ruin.

I think the real criminals are the people creating this policy of harsh, overwhelming and disproportionate consequence. Its one thing to steal "ideas".....its something else to virtually kill a persons future over it.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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12/18/2011 5:53:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 5:38:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
Now I'm not against the protection of intellectual property, I'm just against what is defined as plagiarism and what this relatively petty crime has the power to destroy.

I haven't done an anti-intellectual property rights debate yet. Care to oblige?
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: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/18/2011 6:00:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 5:53:56 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 12/18/2011 5:38:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
Now I'm not against the protection of intellectual property, I'm just against what is defined as plagiarism and what this relatively petty crime has the power to destroy.

I haven't done an anti-intellectual property rights debate yet. Care to oblige?

but I'm not anti-intellectual property, I'm anti-plagiarism extremism
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
BennyW
Posts: 698
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12/18/2011 6:02:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It can also get fuzzy what exactly constitutes plagiarism. If something is lifted word for word from somewhere else then it would seem to be plagiarism, however, this seems to be common practice in online blogs.
You didn't build that-Obama
It's pretty lazy to quote things you disagree with, call it stupid and move on, rather than arguing with the person. -000ike
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/18/2011 6:02:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 5:38:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
I think that plagiarism is an overrated crime, and the punishment is borderline draconian (http://www.ehow.com...)

Now I'm not against the protection of intellectual property, I'm just against what is defined as plagiarism and what this relatively petty crime has the power to destroy.

1. Something is not plagiarism if it gives the source of the information. If a writer or students forgets quotes but cites the source, that is not plagiarism. It is a misdemeanor, but it is not plagiarism. As such, the most that should happen is a recall of the books until its corrected, or a grade down for the student.

2. Plagiarism is not that serious. Its like stealing a candy bar. The controversy it causes is an utter overreaction.

3. A student should not be expelled for plagiarism, and should not have that on permanent record. Destroying people's lives is no light matter, and its not the kind of consequence you hand out so liberally. A mistake (which many plagiarism "accusations" are) just should not have this much potential to ruin.

I think the real criminals are the people creating this policy of harsh, overwhelming and disproportionate consequence. Its one thing to steal "ideas".....its something else to virtually kill a persons future over it.

I think dying over promiscuous behavior is pretty harsh, too, but it's also a reality.

It's pretty easy, though, to avoid being loose or cheating.

So, ya know. Just don't do it.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/18/2011 6:05:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 6:02:36 PM, Ren wrote:

I think dying over promiscuous behavior is pretty harsh, too, but it's also a reality.

It's pretty easy, though, to avoid being loose or cheating.

So, ya know. Just don't do it.

The argument is not about what the reality of the policy is, its about what the policy OUGHT to be.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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12/18/2011 6:10:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 6:00:31 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/18/2011 5:53:56 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 12/18/2011 5:38:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
Now I'm not against the protection of intellectual property, I'm just against what is defined as plagiarism and what this relatively petty crime has the power to destroy.

I haven't done an anti-intellectual property rights debate yet. Care to oblige?

but I'm not anti-intellectual property, I'm anti-plagiarism extremism

I am, that's why I want to debate it.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
unitedandy
Posts: 1,173
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12/18/2011 6:32:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
When I was at university, folks used to actually run their own essays through some software or other to see if it was plagiarised! I don't know if this was just extreme overreaction, but clearly this isn't people forgetting to cite a source or wrongly attributing quotes. If you need to do this sort of thing, it strikes me that you probably have plagiarised. As for the seriousness of plagiarism, it depends. Written academic work should always be referenced properly, but I agree that small mistakes are forgiveable.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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12/18/2011 6:34:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Any dipshat can copy and paste a text word for word. Expressing the same thing in your own words at least hints at understanding.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/18/2011 6:34:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 6:05:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/18/2011 6:02:36 PM, Ren wrote:

I think dying over promiscuous behavior is pretty harsh, too, but it's also a reality.

It's pretty easy, though, to avoid being loose or cheating.

So, ya know. Just don't do it.

The argument is not about what the reality of the policy is, its about what the policy OUGHT to be.

My statement wasn't to acknowledge reality; more, it was me saying that we don't need to fix what isn't broken.

I see nothing wrong with the policy whatsoever; I consider your arguments weak.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/18/2011 6:39:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 6:34:53 PM, Ren wrote:
At 12/18/2011 6:05:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/18/2011 6:02:36 PM, Ren wrote:

I think dying over promiscuous behavior is pretty harsh, too, but it's also a reality.

It's pretty easy, though, to avoid being loose or cheating.

So, ya know. Just don't do it.

The argument is not about what the reality of the policy is, its about what the policy OUGHT to be.

My statement wasn't to acknowledge reality; more, it was me saying that we don't need to fix what isn't broken.

I see nothing wrong with the policy whatsoever; I consider your arguments weak.

What if I told you, if you steal a cookie from that cookie jar, I'll send you to jail for 5 years?.....Well, then don't steal the cookie! right?....wrong. The punishment is a crime itself. Justice is a force of equalization, not heavy and disproportionate retaliation. Stealing a few words is the literary equivalent of stealing a candy bar. Its not that serious.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Calvincambridge
Posts: 1,141
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12/18/2011 10:34:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 5:38:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
I think that plagiarism is an overrated crime, and the punishment is borderline draconian (http://www.ehow.com...)

Now I'm not against the protection of intellectual property, I'm just against what is defined as plagiarism and what this relatively petty crime has the power to destroy.

1. Something is not plagiarism if it gives the source of the information. If a writer or students forgets quotes but cites the source, that is not plagiarism. It is a misdemeanor, but it is not plagiarism. As such, the most that should happen is a recall of the books until its corrected, or a grade down for the student.

2. Plagiarism is not that serious. Its like stealing a candy bar. The controversy it causes is an utter overreaction.

3. A student should not be expelled for plagiarism, and should not have that on permanent record. Destroying people's lives is no light matter, and its not the kind of consequence you hand out so liberally. A mistake (which many plagiarism "accusations" are) just should not have this much potential to ruin.

I think the real criminals are the people creating this policy of harsh, overwhelming and disproportionate consequence. Its one thing to steal "ideas".....its something else to virtually kill a persons future over it.

I agree when ever I write any paper I become as scared as hell I accindentially plagiarized.
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nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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12/18/2011 11:52:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Plagiarism IS a serious crime. It involves academic and intellectual dishonesty and what integrity does a university have if its students are caught being dishonest?
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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12/19/2011 12:02:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm with Ren and nonentity on this. Academic plagiarism is a problem for educators and students alike. The punishments are fitting.
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mongoose
Posts: 3,500
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12/19/2011 12:07:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Does anybody know the punishment for trying to cite a source, but doing it incorrectly (perhaps forgetting a period somewhere)?
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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12/19/2011 12:10:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/19/2011 12:07:31 AM, mongoose wrote:
Does anybody know the punishment for trying to cite a source, but doing it incorrectly (perhaps forgetting a period somewhere)?

It's plagarism, you'll usually get a zero for the assignment.

I agree with nonentity, if plagarism is accepted academic integrity dies.
mongoose
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12/19/2011 12:14:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/19/2011 12:10:20 AM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 12/19/2011 12:07:31 AM, mongoose wrote:
Does anybody know the punishment for trying to cite a source, but doing it incorrectly (perhaps forgetting a period somewhere)?

It's plagarism, you'll usually get a zero for the assignment.

I agree with nonentity, if plagarism is accepted academic integrity dies.

So if you do everything else right, but don't miss a single period in the citation format, you have completely plagiarized? That seems harsh.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
OMGJustinBieber
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12/19/2011 12:16:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/19/2011 12:14:28 AM, mongoose wrote:
At 12/19/2011 12:10:20 AM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 12/19/2011 12:07:31 AM, mongoose wrote:
Does anybody know the punishment for trying to cite a source, but doing it incorrectly (perhaps forgetting a period somewhere)?

It's plagarism, you'll usually get a zero for the assignment.

I agree with nonentity, if plagarism is accepted academic integrity dies.

So if you do everything else right, but don't miss a single period in the citation format, you have completely plagiarized? That seems harsh.

I'm sorry, have you done a paper where you've had to cite sources? Is this really a question you need answered?
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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12/20/2011 10:08:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 6:10:19 PM, socialpinko wrote:
I am, that's why I want to debate it.

Oh, look what a good little an-cap you are. I already know the Mises articles you'll use for your case. Even though I am for the most part against IP (it is abused in terms of things like pharmaceuticals in many cases, and seeds because of Monsatan... err, Monsanto, etc.) I believe that if you acknowledge property rights than you must acknowledge IP rights. "Labor" is what makes something property according to capitalists, and IP requires labor as well. The argument you'll fall back on is scarcity, so it'd be up to your opponent to argue that good ideas are also scarce (or some other element of scarcity accompanies IP). I think I'd be up for that challenge.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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12/20/2011 10:10:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
As far as plagiarism, I do think it's a problem but I also think various aspects of testing is a problem. I think the entire education system is problematic. I'd much rather one-on-one's with the prof. or some other method of indicating that a pupil has actually retained some information.

I am going to be honest and say that I write people's papers for money all the time. They always get A's and I don't plagiarize, so they won't get caught. They receive good grades which the workforce apparently values for whatever bullsh!t reason (any dipsh!t can get a 4.0 by having other people do their work and/or cheating -- I see it happen ALL the time). First-hand experience is the best teacher. College is for the most part unnecessary in general, as every company you work for requires you learn their particular procedures and whatnot.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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12/20/2011 10:13:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Eliminate college, implement training in the workforce. Problem solved.

As far as edumucation goes, have people look into it on their own time. The internet is invaluable and provides us with plenty of resources. I've learned more from being a member of DDO in the past 3 years than I have in like 18 years of school.
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WriterSelbe
Posts: 410
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12/20/2011 10:18:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 5:38:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
I think that plagiarism is an overrated crime, and the punishment is borderline draconian (http://www.ehow.com...)

Now I'm not against the protection of intellectual property, I'm just against what is defined as plagiarism and what this relatively petty crime has the power to destroy.

1. Something is not plagiarism if it gives the source of the information. If a writer or students forgets quotes but cites the source, that is not plagiarism. It is a misdemeanor, but it is not plagiarism. As such, the most that should happen is a recall of the books until its corrected, or a grade down for the student.

2. Plagiarism is not that serious. Its like stealing a candy bar. The controversy it causes is an utter overreaction.

3. A student should not be expelled for plagiarism, and should not have that on permanent record. Destroying people's lives is no light matter, and its not the kind of consequence you hand out so liberally. A mistake (which many plagiarism "accusations" are) just should not have this much potential to ruin.

I think the real criminals are the people creating this policy of harsh, overwhelming and disproportionate consequence. Its one thing to steal "ideas".....its something else to virtually kill a persons future over it.

I understand that some of the punishments might be overreacting, but while it can be comparable to stealing a candy bar, the same could be said about stealing a car. No one wants someone to steal what is rightfully theirs.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/20/2011 10:23:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 5:38:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
I think that plagiarism is an overrated crime, and the punishment is borderline draconian (http://www.ehow.com...)

Now I'm not against the protection of intellectual property, I'm just against what is defined as plagiarism and what this relatively petty crime has the power to destroy.

1. Something is not plagiarism if it gives the source of the information. If a writer or students forgets quotes but cites the source, that is not plagiarism. It is a misdemeanor, but it is not plagiarism. As such, the most that should happen is a recall of the books until its corrected, or a grade down for the student.

2. Plagiarism is not that serious. Its like stealing a candy bar. The controversy it causes is an utter overreaction.

Right, something that someone could have spent years researching, developing, and formulating is the same as a candy bar.


3. A student should not be expelled for plagiarism, and should not have that on permanent record. Destroying people's lives is no light matter, and its not the kind of consequence you hand out so liberally. A mistake (which many plagiarism "accusations" are) just should not have this much potential to ruin.

It is the same as cheating. Whether you are passing off some other person's work as your own, or passing off your neighbor's test as your own. It is cheating and should be treated as such.

People need to take responsibility for their actions and any consequences for those actions are brought on by themselves. If they cheat and get expelled and their lives ruined, it is not the schools fault, but their own.


I think the real criminals are the people creating this policy of harsh, overwhelming and disproportionate consequence. Its one thing to steal "ideas".....its something else to virtually kill a persons future over it.

That's like saying it's one thing to savagely beat your wife... it's something else to ruin someone's future by sending them to jail for 12 months and marking them as a felon. I mean, your wife will heal in 3 weeks, so your punishment should only last 3 weeks, right?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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12/20/2011 10:53:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 6:02:01 PM, BennyW wrote:
It can also get fuzzy what exactly constitutes plagiarism. If something is lifted word for word from somewhere else then it would seem to be plagiarism, however, this seems to be common practice in online blogs.

my blog has it's sources listed and it has footnotes
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/20/2011 12:33:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 10:53:21 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 12/18/2011 6:02:01 PM, BennyW wrote:
It can also get fuzzy what exactly constitutes plagiarism. If something is lifted word for word from somewhere else then it would seem to be plagiarism, however, this seems to be common practice in online blogs.

my blog has it's sources listed and it has footnotes

True, but many Blogs do not.

Anyway, part of the reason is, that plagerism in the real world is often not a problem, though it can often go to court (espeically when it comes to chemical formulas for drugs, or ground breaking research).

The difference in school, is that you are not just stealing words. You are stealing a certificate of knowledge (your degree) which has a great deal of value. So you are not stealing a candy bar that is worth 75 cents, but something that can easily be worth $20,000 thousand a year and more (being the amount you'd likely make over not having a degree).
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socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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12/20/2011 12:55:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 10:08:11 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 12/18/2011 6:10:19 PM, socialpinko wrote:
I am, that's why I want to debate it.

Oh, look what a good little an-cap you are. I already know the Mises articles you'll use for your case. Even though I am for the most part against IP (it is abused in terms of things like pharmaceuticals in many cases, and seeds because of Monsatan... err, Monsanto, etc.) I believe that if you acknowledge property rights than you must acknowledge IP rights. "Labor" is what makes something property according to capitalists, and IP requires labor as well. The argument you'll fall back on is scarcity, so it'd be up to your opponent to argue that good ideas are also scarce (or some other element of scarcity accompanies IP). I think I'd be up for that challenge.

Anti-intellectual property isn't inherently an ancap position. Even Rothbard was for certain types of property and libertarians are pretty much split on the matter. If anything anti-intellectual property positions are more common on the left side of the anarchist spectrum. And I agree with homesteading, but the only reason one would even need to homestead property is because of scarcity, because something is not completely abundant. It seems incoherent to argue about property rights without talking about why rules for ownership of property are even necessary. On good ideas being scarce, I think I could argue against it but who knows. I haven't done one on IP yet so I'll just have to see what happens.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.