Total Posts:19|Showing Posts:1-19
Jump to topic:

Out of Control Spending

ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/29/2011 8:41:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Spending under President Obama has been completely ridiculous yet many democrats still support his spending and even want to tax the rich etc. in order to pay for it. I can't believe this.

Defend yourselves!
UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/29/2011 9:04:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/29/2011 8:41:45 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Spending under President Bush has been completely ridiculous yet many Republicans still support his spending and even want to cut taxes to the rich etc. in order to pay for it. I can't believe this.

Defend yourselves!

Merry Fix'dmas!
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/29/2011 9:51:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The issue is the permanent increase in the size of government. Over the past 30 years, the federal government has been around 20% of GDP. Obama has increased this, permanently, to about 25% of GDP.

This is the real problem.
President of DDO
Lord_Logic
Posts: 81
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/29/2011 10:30:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/29/2011 8:41:45 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Spending under President Obama has been completely ridiculous yet many democrats still support his spending and even want to tax the rich etc. in order to pay for it. I can't believe this.

Defend yourselves!

Which then means that we're screwed!
Meet Ike, your worst enemy...or second...or third...or the rank after your mother...
Lord_Logic
Posts: 81
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/29/2011 10:32:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/29/2011 10:30:28 PM, Lord_Logic wrote:
At 12/29/2011 8:41:45 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Spending under President Obama has been completely ridiculous yet many democrats still support his spending and even want to tax the rich etc. in order to pay for it. I can't believe this.

Defend yourselves!

Which then means that we're screwed!

Sort of. Taxes increase means the people in America will be unhappy.
Meet Ike, your worst enemy...or second...or third...or the rank after your mother...
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/29/2011 11:18:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
yes we are at 2.5 trillion spending a year, obama is asking for 1.2 trillion more, and we are in 15 trillion in debt. Were Fvck3d
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Contra
Posts: 3,941
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/1/2012 10:24:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I consider myself a liberal. If we slashed spending radically, especially now when the economy is still weak, we as a nation will slip back into a recession. I do not like playing the fear card, but it is the truth. Yes, we DO need a plan to cut spending, but currently, only modest reductions in spending are acceptable. When the economy has recovered to about pre-recession levels, I support spending cuts, we need both spending cuts and tax hikes, a blend of the two for deficit reduction. Now, touting "out of control" spending and proposing large cuts in weak economic times makes of good politics, but bad economics. It also is kind of sucks that this website is dominated by right wing conservatives/ libertarians, etc. who actually don't consider all of the facets of a topic's implications.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/1/2012 10:39:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/1/2012 10:24:37 PM, Contra wrote:
I consider myself a liberal. If we slashed spending radically, especially now when the economy is still weak, we as a nation will slip back into a recession. I do not like playing the fear card, but it is the truth. Yes, we DO need a plan to cut spending, but currently, only modest reductions in spending are acceptable. When the economy has recovered to about pre-recession levels, I support spending cuts, we need both spending cuts and tax hikes, a blend of the two for deficit reduction. Now, touting "out of control" spending and proposing large cuts in weak economic times makes of good politics, but bad economics. It also is kind of sucks that this website is dominated by right wing conservatives/ libertarians, etc. who actually don't consider all of the facets of a topic's implications.

Wrong! We do not need tax hikes, if we hike taxes we will just spend more. Debt is wrong, its bad, and ever president up until Woodrow Wilson thought so then the American populace was brainwashed to think like you, that we need to spend and if we slashed spending we'll go back into a recession when this is absolutely false.

"Honey we owe 400,000 dollars to the bank"
"Quick, open another credit card and spend it to the limit that'll help"

... Wrong
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/1/2012 10:44:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/29/2011 9:04:50 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 12/29/2011 8:41:45 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Spending under President Bush has been completely ridiculous yet many Republicans still support his spending and even want to cut taxes to the rich etc. in order to pay for it. I can't believe this.

Defend yourselves!

Merry Fix'dmas!

Bush- 4 trillion in 8 years

Obama- 5 trillion in 4 years
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Deathbeforedishonour
Posts: 1,058
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/1/2012 10:56:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/29/2011 8:41:45 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Spending under President Obama has been completely ridiculous yet many democrats still support his spending and even want to tax the rich etc. in order to pay for it. I can't believe this.

Defend yourselves!

So when our economy colapses who's coming to Russia with me?
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ~ John 1:1

Matthew 10:22- "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
Contra
Posts: 3,941
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/2/2012 3:35:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Most of the federal debt we owe is to... ourselves. Also, the difference between the government and civilian (personal) debt is that civilians need to pay back their debt, while government needs to make sure their revenue increases faster than their debt. It might seem nice to cut important programs in the short term to decrease the budget deficit, but the benefits in the long term are bites into our future. By delivering major cuts to successful programs that are future-oriented satisfies the tea-party citizens who want the (poor choice) cuts. I do believe that spending should be reduced and taxes should be raised, and a federal cap on spending should be put. However, cutting programs that affect our future such as education, law enforcement, and feeding the poor may be good politics, but poor policies. Also, much of the current deficit is from the tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 (and 2009) and because of the recent recession.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/2/2012 3:41:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/2/2012 3:35:58 PM, Contra wrote:
Most of the federal debt we owe is to... ourselves. Also, the difference between the government and civilian (personal) debt is that civilians need to pay back their debt, while government needs to make sure their revenue increases faster than their debt. It might seem nice to cut important programs in the short term to decrease the budget deficit, but the benefits in the long term are bites into our future. By delivering major cuts to successful programs that are future-oriented satisfies the tea-party citizens who want the (poor choice) cuts. I do believe that spending should be reduced and taxes should be raised, and a federal cap on spending should be put. However, cutting programs that affect our future such as education, law enforcement, and feeding the poor may be good politics, but poor policies. Also, much of the current deficit is from the tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 (and 2009) and because of the recent recession.

Can you name some successful government programs that promote social welfare? (please don't use Social Security or Medicare)
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/2/2012 3:48:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/29/2011 9:04:50 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 12/29/2011 8:41:45 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Spending under President Bush has been completely ridiculous yet many Republicans still support his spending and even want to cut taxes to the rich etc. in order to pay for it. I can't believe this.

Defend yourselves!

Merry Fix'dmas!

Obama is worse
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/2/2012 3:50:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/2/2012 3:35:58 PM, Contra wrote:
Most of the federal debt we owe is to... ourselves. Also, the difference between the government and civilian (personal) debt is that civilians need to pay back their debt, while government needs to make sure their revenue increases faster than their debt. It might seem nice to cut important programs in the short term to decrease the budget deficit, but the benefits in the long term are bites into our future. By delivering major cuts to successful programs that are future-oriented satisfies the tea-party citizens who want the (poor choice) cuts. I do believe that spending should be reduced and taxes should be raised, and a federal cap on spending should be put. However, cutting programs that affect our future such as education, law enforcement, and feeding the poor may be good politics, but poor policies. Also, much of the current deficit is from the tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 (and 2009) and because of the recent recession.

so then why when we cancel the tax cute our debt still soars. Also the rescission didn't cause it, it was the idiotic stimulus. Also the tax cuts saved us from the 2000 recession.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Rasheed
Posts: 49
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/2/2012 4:08:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/1/2012 10:44:01 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 12/29/2011 9:04:50 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 12/29/2011 8:41:45 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Spending under President Bush has been completely ridiculous yet many Republicans still support his spending and even want to cut taxes to the rich etc. in order to pay for it. I can't believe this.

Defend yourselves!

Merry Fix'dmas!

Bush- 4 trillion in 8 years

Obama- 5 trillion in 4 years

Conservative lie so much that it is second nature, that's why a recent study said that Fox News viewers are the least informed citizens in the country. The fact is that Bush spent 5 trillion dollars while Obama has spent 1.5 trillion primarily to try an fix the mess Conservatives created with their mixed up economics that has never worked ( see Reagan years ). If you don't believe me try reading FactCheck.org on the subject;
http://www.factcheck.org...
Say; He Allah (S.W.T.) is One God, He Begets not, nor is He begotten, and there is none like unto Him."
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/2/2012 4:15:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/2/2012 4:08:06 PM, Rasheed wrote:
At 1/1/2012 10:44:01 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 12/29/2011 9:04:50 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 12/29/2011 8:41:45 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Spending under President Bush has been completely ridiculous yet many Republicans still support his spending and even want to cut taxes to the rich etc. in order to pay for it. I can't believe this.

Defend yourselves!

Merry Fix'dmas!

Bush- 4 trillion in 8 years

Obama- 5 trillion in 4 years

Conservative lie so much that it is second nature, that's why a recent study said that Fox News viewers are the least informed citizens in the country. The fact is that Bush spent 5 trillion dollars while Obama has spent 1.5 trillion primarily to try an fix the mess Conservatives created with their mixed up economics that has never worked ( see Reagan years ). If you don't believe me try reading FactCheck.org on the subject;
http://www.factcheck.org...

According to this source Obama has increased the debt by 5 trillion dollars, the same as Bush. The difference is he's done it in three years while Bush did it in 8. So when conservatives say Obama increased the debt twice as much it fits because he's done it in less than half the time.

12/31/2008 BUSH $10,699,804,864,612 - debt when Bush left office
12/31/2009 OBAMA $12,311,349,677,512
12/31/2010 OBAMA $14,025,215,218,709
12/31/2011 OBAMA $15,125,898,976,397 - debt now

notice the radical increase in debt under Obama. Averaging 1.5 trillion, a year.
UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/2/2012 4:31:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/2/2012 4:15:24 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 1/2/2012 4:08:06 PM, Rasheed wrote:
At 1/1/2012 10:44:01 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 12/29/2011 9:04:50 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 12/29/2011 8:41:45 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Spending under President Bush has been completely ridiculous yet many Republicans still support his spending and even want to cut taxes to the rich etc. in order to pay for it. I can't believe this.

Defend yourselves!

Merry Fix'dmas!

Bush- 4 trillion in 8 years

Obama- 5 trillion in 4 years

Conservative lie so much that it is second nature, that's why a recent study said that Fox News viewers are the least informed citizens in the country. The fact is that Bush spent 5 trillion dollars while Obama has spent 1.5 trillion primarily to try an fix the mess Conservatives created with their mixed up economics that has never worked ( see Reagan years ). If you don't believe me try reading FactCheck.org on the subject;
http://www.factcheck.org...

According to this source Obama has increased the debt by 5 trillion dollars, the same as Bush. The difference is he's done it in three years while Bush did it in 8. So when conservatives say Obama increased the debt twice as much it fits because he's done it in less than half the time.

12/31/2008 BUSH $10,699,804,864,612 - debt when Bush left office
12/31/2009 OBAMA $12,311,349,677,512
12/31/2010 OBAMA $14,025,215,218,709
12/31/2011 OBAMA $15,125,898,976,397 - debt now

notice the radical increase in debt under Obama. Averaging 1.5 trillion, a year.

Increased debt =/= increased spending.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/2/2012 4:47:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/2/2012 4:31:29 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 1/2/2012 4:15:24 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 1/2/2012 4:08:06 PM, Rasheed wrote:
At 1/1/2012 10:44:01 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 12/29/2011 9:04:50 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 12/29/2011 8:41:45 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Spending under President Bush has been completely ridiculous yet many Republicans still support his spending and even want to cut taxes to the rich etc. in order to pay for it. I can't believe this.

Defend yourselves!

Merry Fix'dmas!

Bush- 4 trillion in 8 years

Obama- 5 trillion in 4 years

Conservative lie so much that it is second nature, that's why a recent study said that Fox News viewers are the least informed citizens in the country. The fact is that Bush spent 5 trillion dollars while Obama has spent 1.5 trillion primarily to try an fix the mess Conservatives created with their mixed up economics that has never worked ( see Reagan years ). If you don't believe me try reading FactCheck.org on the subject;
http://www.factcheck.org...

According to this source Obama has increased the debt by 5 trillion dollars, the same as Bush. The difference is he's done it in three years while Bush did it in 8. So when conservatives say Obama increased the debt twice as much it fits because he's done it in less than half the time.

12/31/2008 BUSH $10,699,804,864,612 - debt when Bush left office
12/31/2009 OBAMA $12,311,349,677,512
12/31/2010 OBAMA $14,025,215,218,709
12/31/2011 OBAMA $15,125,898,976,397 - debt now

notice the radical increase in debt under Obama. Averaging 1.5 trillion, a year.

Increased debt =/= increased spending.

but you cannot create debt without spending.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/2/2012 5:58:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Can you name some successful government programs that promote social welfare? (please don't use Social Security or Medicare)

Some successful government programs that promote social welfare that are not Social Security and Medicare:

-W.I.C. for low income individuals
Supplemental nutritious foods
Nutrition education and counseling at WIC clinics
Screening and referrals to other health, welfare and social services

-Earned Income Tax Credit
Provides modest payments to low income families
Lifted 5.4 million people out of poverty in 2010
Pays for itself, multiplier effect of 1.5-2

-Postal Service
-Federal Aviation Administration
-T.V.A.
-V.A.
-Federal Student Loans (when new policy is fully implemented, it will help students more AND reduce costs)
-Americorps

Obama is worse

Under Obama, the US has had many foreign policy successes, renewable energy percent of total energy consumption is up to 14% (promise kept), War in Iraq is over, Wall Street is more properly regulated, our foreign alliances are much better than they were, corporate profits are at record highs, the trade deficit is lower, US share of car lithium battery production went from 2% of total to almost 40% (helped by Gov't funding), economic recovery from recession is under way and (slowly) gaining speed, etc.
so then why when we cancel the tax cute our debt still soars. Also the rescission didn't cause it, it was the idiotic stimulus. Also the tax cuts saved us from the 2000 recession.

Idiotic stimulus? It saved possibly a million jobs, increased American energy, helped improve the economy, improved America's infrastructure, etc. When we cancel the tax cut our deficit didn't soar. If we ended all of the Bush tax cuts it would increase revenue by $3.6 trillion over 10 years, and if we put a cap on spending, it would reduce the deficit. The 2000 recession was pretty brief and mild anyway.

http://www.nytimes.com...
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan