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Illegal Immigration helps the Economy

Lordknukle
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12/30/2011 12:52:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Illegal immigration takes jobs away from legal citizens. We have an 8%+ unemployment rate so any new workers would be highly detrimental.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Ron-Paul
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12/30/2011 12:59:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 12:52:39 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Illegal immigration takes jobs away from legal citizens. We have an 8%+ unemployment rate so any new workers would be highly detrimental.

Finally. Someone who know the truth.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/30/2011 12:59:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 12:50:46 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
I just want to see what the other side of my earlier forum debate is saying.

Libertarians and free market supporters would say that unrestricted sale of labor (which includes the movement of labor) is benefitial to the economy.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Lordknukle
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12/30/2011 1:00:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 12:59:10 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 12/30/2011 12:52:39 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Illegal immigration takes jobs away from legal citizens. We have an 8%+ unemployment rate so any new workers would be highly detrimental.

Finally. Someone who know the truth.

I hate Ron Paul but that is the truth about illegal immigration.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
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12/30/2011 1:01:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 12:59:53 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 12/30/2011 12:50:46 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
I just want to see what the other side of my earlier forum debate is saying.

Libertarians and free market supporters would say that unrestricted sale of labor (which includes the movement of labor) is benefitial to the economy.

But there is nowhere to move the labor to. We don't have any labour available. If we did, we wouldn't be unemployed.

lol, I don't know why I keep referring to the US as we. I'm from Canada :)
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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12/30/2011 1:04:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 1:00:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 12/30/2011 12:59:10 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 12/30/2011 12:52:39 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Illegal immigration takes jobs away from legal citizens. We have an 8%+ unemployment rate so any new workers would be highly detrimental.

Finally. Someone who know the truth.

I hate Ron Paul but that is the truth about illegal immigration.

I love Ron Paul, but I agree with the second half of your answer.
mongoose
Posts: 3,500
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12/30/2011 1:07:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Many businesses were started by legal immigrants. We ought to make all immigration simpler and more efficient, as it is currently an extremely lengthy process. An Indian computer programmer has to wait 35 years to get in.

Don't get rid of the immigration, get rid of the welfare state.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
DetectableNinja
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12/30/2011 1:08:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
So I see you wanted to start ALL the f*ck over to avoid the continuation of our conversation from earlier? Seems legit.
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I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

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Ron-Paul
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12/30/2011 1:09:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 1:08:41 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
So I see you wanted to start ALL the f*ck over to avoid the continuation of our conversation from earlier? Seems legit.

Ok. Go ahead with your comments.
Ragnar_Rahl
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12/30/2011 1:12:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 1:09:52 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 12/30/2011 1:08:41 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
So I see you wanted to start ALL the f*ck over to avoid the continuation of our conversation from earlier? Seems legit.

Ok. Go ahead with your comments.

Someone can't detect sarcasm. Having a second thread is MORONIC.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/30/2011 1:12:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 12:52:39 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Illegal immigration takes jobs away from legal citizens. We have an 8%+ unemployment rate so any new workers would be highly detrimental.

If there are no available jobs, immigrants would not be coming. They are coming because they can find jobs and work. In fact, most illegals come through work visas (or other visas), and simply stay here working when the visa expires.

http://www.migrationinformation.org...
http://cronkitenewsonline.com...
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/30/2011 1:14:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 1:01:22 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 12/30/2011 12:59:53 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 12/30/2011 12:50:46 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
I just want to see what the other side of my earlier forum debate is saying.

Libertarians and free market supporters would say that unrestricted sale of labor (which includes the movement of labor) is benefitial to the economy.

But there is nowhere to move the labor to. We don't have any labour available. If we did, we wouldn't be unemployed.

lol, I don't know why I keep referring to the US as we. I'm from Canada :)

My company is doing interviews as we type (and I'll be trainning whoever they hire). To say "we don't have any labour" (though you mean "demand for labour") is not true.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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12/30/2011 1:22:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 1:12:53 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 12/30/2011 12:52:39 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Illegal immigration takes jobs away from legal citizens. We have an 8%+ unemployment rate so any new workers would be highly detrimental.

If there are no available jobs, immigrants would not be coming. They are coming because they can find jobs and work. In fact, most illegals come through work visas (or other visas), and simply stay here working when the visa expires.

http://www.migrationinformation.org...
http://cronkitenewsonline.com...

IF there are jobs then:
1. Why do we have a 8% unemployment rate?
2. Why the hell are we letting them in if there are jobs?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
thett3
Posts: 14,372
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12/30/2011 1:47:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If I could reform immigration, I would do the following:

A) Minimum wage is eliminated for incoming immigrants (because there is still a demand for cheap labor).

B) Illegal Immigrants and their families currently holding jobs are granted full amnesty, the others are all sent home. Unconditional.

C) Change the policy to where the only immigrants allowed in are those who have a contract to work with a company once they arrive. This is beneficial, because it makes the supply of immigrant labor equal to the demand (or mostly equal), and since companies would have an incentive to hire decent/hardworking/intelligent employees, the quality of the average immigrant would rise.

I think that would really help the economy, but as it stands illegal immigration does help the economy. You just cant avoid the fact that they often do the jobs that no one else wants to.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

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"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
mongoose
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12/30/2011 1:53:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 1:47:11 PM, thett3 wrote:
If I could reform immigration, I would do the following:

A) Minimum wage is eliminated for incoming immigrants (because there is still a demand for cheap labor).

Why only for incoming immigrants? Shouldn't it be removed for everybody?

B) Illegal Immigrants and their families currently holding jobs are granted full amnesty, the others are all sent home. Unconditional.

What if the immigrant just retired?

C) Change the policy to where the only immigrants allowed in are those who have a contract to work with a company once they arrive. This is beneficial, because it makes the supply of immigrant labor equal to the demand (or mostly equal), and since companies would have an incentive to hire decent/hardworking/intelligent employees, the quality of the average immigrant would rise.

How exactly would that work? They enter, they have 24 hours to find demand for labor?

I think that would really help the economy, but as it stands illegal immigration does help the economy. You just cant avoid the fact that they often do the jobs that no one else wants to.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
Lordknukle
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12/30/2011 1:56:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 1:53:24 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 12/30/2011 1:47:11 PM, thett3 wrote:
If I could reform immigration, I would do the following:

A) Minimum wage is eliminated for incoming immigrants (because there is still a demand for cheap labor).

Why only for incoming immigrants? Shouldn't it be removed for everybody?
Immigrants are more likely to work for very little pay and as cheap labour often because of the conditions where they came from. US citizens think that they are to good for it so won't work as well. Although, the minimum wage should be abolished for everybody.
B) Illegal Immigrants and their families currently holding jobs are granted full amnesty, the others are all sent home. Unconditional.

What if the immigrant just retired?
Expand please. The immigrant that just came or the immigrant who will get sent back?
C) Change the policy to where the only immigrants allowed in are those who have a contract to work with a company once they arrive. This is beneficial, because it makes the supply of immigrant labor equal to the demand (or mostly equal), and since companies would have an incentive to hire decent/hardworking/intelligent employees, the quality of the average immigrant would rise.

How exactly would that work? They enter, they have 24 hours to find demand for labor?
They secure a job before coming into the country.
I think that would really help the economy, but as it stands illegal immigration does help the economy. You just cant avoid the fact that they often do the jobs that no one else wants to.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
thett3
Posts: 14,372
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12/30/2011 1:56:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 1:53:24 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 12/30/2011 1:47:11 PM, thett3 wrote:
If I could reform immigration, I would do the following:

A) Minimum wage is eliminated for incoming immigrants (because there is still a demand for cheap labor).

Why only for incoming immigrants? Shouldn't it be removed for everybody?

Maybe, maybe not. I honest can't pretend to have a knowledgeable background in such a matter. I'm open to being convinced.

B) Illegal Immigrants and their families currently holding jobs are granted full amnesty, the others are all sent home. Unconditional.

What if the immigrant just retired?
Good question. I'm inclined to say they should stay (although it would make me retract my "unconditional statement :P), but it would be a tricky matter to determine.

C) Change the policy to where the only immigrants allowed in are those who have a contract to work with a company once they arrive. This is beneficial, because it makes the supply of immigrant labor equal to the demand (or mostly equal), and since companies would have an incentive to hire decent/hardworking/intelligent employees, the quality of the average immigrant would rise.

How exactly would that work? They enter, they have 24 hours to find demand for labor?

No, they would have to be invited essentially. Just like cargo only enters the U.S. if its been bought, immigrants would only enter the U.S. if their labor was sold.

I think that would really help the economy, but as it stands illegal immigration does help the economy. You just cant avoid the fact that they often do the jobs that no one else wants to.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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12/30/2011 2:07:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 1:56:35 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 12/30/2011 1:53:24 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 12/30/2011 1:47:11 PM, thett3 wrote:
If I could reform immigration, I would do the following:

A) Minimum wage is eliminated for incoming immigrants (because there is still a demand for cheap labor).

Why only for incoming immigrants? Shouldn't it be removed for everybody?

Maybe, maybe not. I honest can't pretend to have a knowledgeable background in such a matter. I'm open to being convinced.

B) Illegal Immigrants and their families currently holding jobs are granted full amnesty, the others are all sent home. Unconditional.

What if the immigrant just retired?
Good question. I'm inclined to say they should stay (although it would make me retract my "unconditional statement :P), but it would be a tricky matter to determine.

C) Change the policy to where the only immigrants allowed in are those who have a contract to work with a company once they arrive. This is beneficial, because it makes the supply of immigrant labor equal to the demand (or mostly equal), and since companies would have an incentive to hire decent/hardworking/intelligent employees, the quality of the average immigrant would rise.

How exactly would that work? They enter, they have 24 hours to find demand for labor?

No, they would have to be invited essentially. Just like cargo only enters the U.S. if its been bought, immigrants would only enter the U.S. if their labor was sold.

I think that would really help the economy, but as it stands illegal immigration does help the economy. You just cant avoid the fact that they often do the jobs that no one else wants to.

Illegal Immigration contribues nothing to the economy. But it does steal jobs from native born Americans.
TheAtheistAllegiance
Posts: 1,251
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12/30/2011 3:05:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 2:07:09 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 12/30/2011 1:56:35 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 12/30/2011 1:53:24 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 12/30/2011 1:47:11 PM, thett3 wrote:
If I could reform immigration, I would do the following:

A) Minimum wage is eliminated for incoming immigrants (because there is still a demand for cheap labor).

Why only for incoming immigrants? Shouldn't it be removed for everybody?

Maybe, maybe not. I honest can't pretend to have a knowledgeable background in such a matter. I'm open to being convinced.

B) Illegal Immigrants and their families currently holding jobs are granted full amnesty, the others are all sent home. Unconditional.

What if the immigrant just retired?
Good question. I'm inclined to say they should stay (although it would make me retract my "unconditional statement :P), but it would be a tricky matter to determine.

C) Change the policy to where the only immigrants allowed in are those who have a contract to work with a company once they arrive. This is beneficial, because it makes the supply of immigrant labor equal to the demand (or mostly equal), and since companies would have an incentive to hire decent/hardworking/intelligent employees, the quality of the average immigrant would rise.

How exactly would that work? They enter, they have 24 hours to find demand for labor?

No, they would have to be invited essentially. Just like cargo only enters the U.S. if its been bought, immigrants would only enter the U.S. if their labor was sold.

I think that would really help the economy, but as it stands illegal immigration does help the economy. You just cant avoid the fact that they often do the jobs that no one else wants to.

Illegal Immigration contribues nothing to the economy. But it does steal jobs from native born Americans.

Illegal immigration provides a source of labor to the market, a source of labor that is the most mobile and efficient for that matter. Immigrants are the quickest to relocate to find jobs, and they're willing to do some of the crappiest work out there. This greatly increases the efficiency of the market as a whole, which allows for MORE production overall, which makes the WHOLE country RICHER.

Not to mention, when labor is less costly/more efficient in this way, it leaves money left over for investment in capital and technology, which definitely improves living standards over the long term.

Moreover, immigrants are not only a source of labor, but they are also a source of DEMAND, which is not only cited in economic research, but I've seen it myself in my line of work. For example, I sold a car the other day because somebody's family member was on their way here from Colombia, and he/she needed something to drive. They also need food, electricity, and other goods and services that drive the economy.

Funny enough, the money this person was using to buy the car originated in Colombia, so in other words, people are bringing wealth from other countries to America. How does that NOT benefit our country, you tool.

And change your username, your anti-Libertarian ethos doesn't fit at all, and you're embarrassing yourself.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/30/2011 3:12:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 1:22:35 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 12/30/2011 1:12:53 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 12/30/2011 12:52:39 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Illegal immigration takes jobs away from legal citizens. We have an 8%+ unemployment rate so any new workers would be highly detrimental.

If there are no available jobs, immigrants would not be coming. They are coming because they can find jobs and work. In fact, most illegals come through work visas (or other visas), and simply stay here working when the visa expires.

http://www.migrationinformation.org...
http://cronkitenewsonline.com...

IF there are jobs then:
1. Why do we have a 8% unemployment rate?

Because some peopel are holding out for BETTER jobs. The guy that was making $80k a year is not going drop to $24k a year. He is going to hold out for something more to his skills. Thus, allowing there to be available jobs AND unemployed.

2. Why the hell are we letting them in if there are jobs?

I don't see how that relates. They are coming in for jobs, and the companies are CHOOSING them over american workers.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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12/30/2011 3:26:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 3:05:27 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
At 12/30/2011 2:07:09 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 12/30/2011 1:56:35 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 12/30/2011 1:53:24 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 12/30/2011 1:47:11 PM, thett3 wrote:
If I could reform immigration, I would do the following:

A) Minimum wage is eliminated for incoming immigrants (because there is still a demand for cheap labor).

Why only for incoming immigrants? Shouldn't it be removed for everybody?

Maybe, maybe not. I honest can't pretend to have a knowledgeable background in such a matter. I'm open to being convinced.

B) Illegal Immigrants and their families currently holding jobs are granted full amnesty, the others are all sent home. Unconditional.

What if the immigrant just retired?
Good question. I'm inclined to say they should stay (although it would make me retract my "unconditional statement :P), but it would be a tricky matter to determine.

C) Change the policy to where the only immigrants allowed in are those who have a contract to work with a company once they arrive. This is beneficial, because it makes the supply of immigrant labor equal to the demand (or mostly equal), and since companies would have an incentive to hire decent/hardworking/intelligent employees, the quality of the average immigrant would rise.

How exactly would that work? They enter, they have 24 hours to find demand for labor?

No, they would have to be invited essentially. Just like cargo only enters the U.S. if its been bought, immigrants would only enter the U.S. if their labor was sold.

I think that would really help the economy, but as it stands illegal immigration does help the economy. You just cant avoid the fact that they often do the jobs that no one else wants to.

Illegal Immigration contribues nothing to the economy. But it does steal jobs from native born Americans.

Illegal immigration provides a source of labor to the market, a source of labor that is the most mobile and efficient for that matter. Immigrants are the quickest to relocate to find jobs, and they're willing to do some of the crappiest work out there. This greatly increases the efficiency of the market as a whole, which allows for MORE production overall, which makes the WHOLE country RICHER.

Not to mention, when labor is less costly/more efficient in this way, it leaves money left over for investment in capital and technology, which definitely improves living standards over the long term.

Moreover, immigrants are not only a source of labor, but they are also a source of DEMAND, which is not only cited in economic research, but I've seen it myself in my line of work. For example, I sold a car the other day because somebody's family member was on their way here from Colombia, and he/she needed something to drive. They also need food, electricity, and other goods and services that drive the economy.

Funny enough, the money this person was using to buy the car originated in Colombia, so in other words, people are bringing wealth from other countries to America. How does that NOT benefit our country, you tool.

And change your username, your anti-Libertarian ethos doesn't fit at all, and you're embarrassing yourself.

I am not going to. Ron Paul is against all illegal immigration. Look it up you uninformed Liberal atheist. And illegal immigration takes jobs from native born Americans. Bad argument.
PartamRuhem
Posts: 1,559
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12/30/2011 3:39:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Maybe, maybe not. I honest can't pretend to have a knowledgeable background in such a matter. I'm open to being convinced.

B) Illegal Immigrants and their families currently holding jobs are granted full amnesty, the others are all sent home. Unconditional.

What if the immigrant just retired?
Good question. I'm inclined to say they should stay (although it would make me retract my "unconditional statement :P), but it would be a tricky matter to determine.

C) Change the policy to where the only immigrants allowed in are those who have a contract to work with a company once they arrive. This is beneficial, because it makes the supply of immigrant labor equal to the demand (or mostly equal), and since companies would have an incentive to hire decent/hardworking/intelligent employees, the quality of the average immigrant would rise.

How exactly would that work? They enter, they have 24 hours to find demand for labor?

No, they would have to be invited essentially. Just like cargo only enters the U.S. if its been bought, immigrants would only enter the U.S. if their labor was sold.

I think that would really help the economy, but as it stands illegal immigration does help the economy. You just cant avoid the fact that they often do the jobs that no one else wants to.

Illegal Immigration contribues nothing to the economy. But it does steal jobs from native born Americans.

Illegal immigration provides a source of labor to the market, a source of labor that is the most mobile and efficient for that matter. Immigrants are the quickest to relocate to find jobs, and they're willing to do some of the crappiest work out there. This greatly increases the efficiency of the market as a whole, which allows for MORE production overall, which makes the WHOLE country RICHER.

Not to mention, when labor is less costly/more efficient in this way, it leaves money left over for investment in capital and technology, which definitely improves living standards over the long term.

Moreover, immigrants are not only a source of labor, but they are also a source of DEMAND, which is not only cited in economic research, but I've seen it myself in my line of work. For example, I sold a car the other day because somebody's family member was on their way here from Colombia, and he/she needed something to drive. They also need food, electricity, and other goods and services that drive the economy.

Funny enough, the money this person was using to buy the car originated in Colombia, so in other words, people are bringing wealth from other countries to America. How does that NOT benefit our country, you tool.

And change your username, your anti-Libertarian ethos doesn't fit at all, and you're embarrassing yourself.

I am not going to. Ron Paul is against all illegal immigration. Look it up you uninformed Liberal atheist. And illegal immigration takes jobs from native born Americans. Bad argument.

I mean I support Ron Paul, but you are seriously making me feel like I shouldn't. I was just reading over this forum, and we don't need you to keep saying "illegal immigration takes jobs from native born Americans". As Ore Ele has shown, people hold out for better jobs.

I personally think that illegal immigration is wrong. Illegals should not be able to dwell in this country. However, I fully support a legal transition into the country. I liked what Thett was saying about keeping who is here, then making it a labor demand entrance only kinda thing. They are extremely beneficial to the economy, but there should be lower wage laws on them.

That stimulates the economy further, I would imagine...
Korashk
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12/30/2011 4:23:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 3:26:26 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
I am not going to. Ron Paul is against all illegal immigration.

He's also in favor of making immigration easier and not supportive of actively seeking out current offenders for deportation. He also acknowledges that illegal immigration can be and is beneficial for an economy.

Look it up you uninformed Liberal atheist.

?

And illegal immigration takes jobs from native born Americans. Bad argument.

Ron Paul doesn't claim this. He's against illegal immigration because of stuff like government benefits. Not because "Americans deserve jobs more than brown people."
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
Ron-Paul
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12/30/2011 4:40:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 3:39:41 PM, PartamRuhem wrote:
Maybe, maybe not. I honest can't pretend to have a knowledgeable background in such a matter. I'm open to being convinced.

B) Illegal Immigrants and their families currently holding jobs are granted full amnesty, the others are all sent home. Unconditional.

What if the immigrant just retired?
Good question. I'm inclined to say they should stay (although it would make me retract my "unconditional statement :P), but it would be a tricky matter to determine.

C) Change the policy to where the only immigrants allowed in are those who have a contract to work with a company once they arrive. This is beneficial, because it makes the supply of immigrant labor equal to the demand (or mostly equal), and since companies would have an incentive to hire decent/hardworking/intelligent employees, the quality of the average immigrant would rise.

How exactly would that work? They enter, they have 24 hours to find demand for labor?

No, they would have to be invited essentially. Just like cargo only enters the U.S. if its been bought, immigrants would only enter the U.S. if their labor was sold.

I think that would really help the economy, but as it stands illegal immigration does help the economy. You just cant avoid the fact that they often do the jobs that no one else wants to.

Illegal Immigration contribues nothing to the economy. But it does steal jobs from native born Americans.

Illegal immigration provides a source of labor to the market, a source of labor that is the most mobile and efficient for that matter. Immigrants are the quickest to relocate to find jobs, and they're willing to do some of the crappiest work out there. This greatly increases the efficiency of the market as a whole, which allows for MORE production overall, which makes the WHOLE country RICHER.

Not to mention, when labor is less costly/more efficient in this way, it leaves money left over for investment in capital and technology, which definitely improves living standards over the long term.

Moreover, immigrants are not only a source of labor, but they are also a source of DEMAND, which is not only cited in economic research, but I've seen it myself in my line of work. For example, I sold a car the other day because somebody's family member was on their way here from Colombia, and he/she needed something to drive. They also need food, electricity, and other goods and services that drive the economy.

Funny enough, the money this person was using to buy the car originated in Colombia, so in other words, people are bringing wealth from other countries to America. How does that NOT benefit our country, you tool.

And change your username, your anti-Libertarian ethos doesn't fit at all, and you're embarrassing yourself.

I am not going to. Ron Paul is against all illegal immigration. Look it up you uninformed Liberal atheist. And illegal immigration takes jobs from native born Americans. Bad argument.

I mean I support Ron Paul, but you are seriously making me feel like I shouldn't. I was just reading over this forum, and we don't need you to keep saying "illegal immigration takes jobs from native born Americans". As Ore Ele has shown, people hold out for better jobs.

I personally think that illegal immigration is wrong. Illegals should not be able to dwell in this country. However, I fully support a legal transition into the country. I liked what Thett was saying about keeping who is here, then making it a labor demand entrance only kinda thing. They are extremely beneficial to the economy, but there should be lower wage laws on them.

That stimulates the economy further, I would imagine...

Finally, someone who knows my beliefs. I love immigration, for it stimulates the economy, but illegal immigration does nothing to the economy.
Ron-Paul
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12/30/2011 4:42:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 4:23:54 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 12/30/2011 3:26:26 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
I am not going to. Ron Paul is against all illegal immigration.

He's also in favor of making immigration easier and not supportive of actively seeking out current offenders for deportation. He also acknowledges that illegal immigration can be and is beneficial for an economy.

Look it up you uninformed Liberal atheist.

?

And illegal immigration takes jobs from native born Americans. Bad argument.

Ron Paul doesn't claim this. He's against illegal immigration because of stuff like government benefits. Not because "Americans deserve jobs more than brown people."

Yes. That makes two reasons immigration is bad. I already believed that. And why the "?" on the "look it up you uninformed liberal atheist"? Don't you get it?
Ore_Ele
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12/30/2011 4:46:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
"I love immigration, for it stimulates the economy..." - member Ron-Paul

2 minutes 14 seconds later, in the very next post...

"That makes two reasons immigration is bad."
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
mongoose
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12/30/2011 4:53:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ron-Paul, what is it that makes legal immigration good and illegal immigration bad, other than legality which would be circular reasoning? Why shouldn't we either ban all immigration or let in all immigration?
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
Ron-Paul
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12/30/2011 5:19:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 4:46:01 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
"I love immigration, for it stimulates the economy..." - member Ron-Paul

2 minutes 14 seconds later, in the very next post...

"That makes two reasons immigration is bad."

There is a difference between legal immigration and illegal immigration. Look it up if you don't know. I wish you had added my whole answer in there. It would disprove your answer.