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Wise Words: JFK

ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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1/4/2012 11:38:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
-John F Kennedy

What happened to this attitude?
gavin.ogden
Posts: 1,729
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1/4/2012 11:39:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/4/2012 11:38:09 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
-John F Kennedy

What happened to this attitude?

Greed, power, and weakness of our representatives.
Physik
Posts: 686
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1/5/2012 12:49:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/5/2012 12:37:04 AM, Royaltee wrote:
Kennedy's speechwriter most likely wrote that. The Kennedy boys were pretty dumb for the most part.

That doesn't make it any less meaningful.
"Just don't let them dissuade you. Stick to your beliefs no matter what and you'll be fine." - ConservativePolitico, the guy that accused me of being close-minded.

"We didn't start slavery, they themselves started it. When the white man first got to Africa they had already enslaved themselves, they just capitalized on an opportunity." - ConservativePolitico

"The Bible to me is a history book and requires very little faith to believe in." - ConservativePolitico
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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1/5/2012 12:52:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/4/2012 11:38:09 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
-John F Kennedy

What happened to this attitude?

Hard to believe this is coming from ConservativeNeoFascist who is:

Anti-civil unions
Pro-death penalty
Anti-drug legalization
Anti-medical marijuana
Pro-NAFTA
Pro-war
Pro-WTO

Doesn't sound like you care too much for liberty.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Physik
Posts: 686
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1/5/2012 12:56:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Anti-medical marijuana

How dare he...
"Just don't let them dissuade you. Stick to your beliefs no matter what and you'll be fine." - ConservativePolitico, the guy that accused me of being close-minded.

"We didn't start slavery, they themselves started it. When the white man first got to Africa they had already enslaved themselves, they just capitalized on an opportunity." - ConservativePolitico

"The Bible to me is a history book and requires very little faith to believe in." - ConservativePolitico
gavin.ogden
Posts: 1,729
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1/5/2012 1:01:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/5/2012 12:56:56 AM, Physik wrote:
Anti-medical marijuana

How dare he...

That's the one you hit on? Grow a f**king brain of your own and actually learn something you imbecile.
nerdykiller
Posts: 856
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1/5/2012 1:05:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/4/2012 11:38:09 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
-John F Kennedy

What happened to this attitude?

It died.
with happiness and security.
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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1/5/2012 1:16:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/5/2012 12:49:11 AM, Physik wrote:
At 1/5/2012 12:37:04 AM, Royaltee wrote:
Kennedy's speechwriter most likely wrote that. The Kennedy boys were pretty dumb for the most part.

That doesn't make it any less meaningful.

but it make's the title of this thread less meaningful
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Physik
Posts: 686
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1/5/2012 1:17:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/5/2012 1:01:31 AM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 1/5/2012 12:56:56 AM, Physik wrote:
Anti-medical marijuana

How dare he...

That's the one you hit on? Grow a f**king brain of your own and actually learn something you imbecile.

Satire is clearly something your unfamiliar with.
"Just don't let them dissuade you. Stick to your beliefs no matter what and you'll be fine." - ConservativePolitico, the guy that accused me of being close-minded.

"We didn't start slavery, they themselves started it. When the white man first got to Africa they had already enslaved themselves, they just capitalized on an opportunity." - ConservativePolitico

"The Bible to me is a history book and requires very little faith to believe in." - ConservativePolitico
gavin.ogden
Posts: 1,729
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1/5/2012 1:22:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/5/2012 1:17:02 AM, Physik wrote:
At 1/5/2012 1:01:31 AM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 1/5/2012 12:56:56 AM, Physik wrote:
Anti-medical marijuana

How dare he...

That's the one you hit on? Grow a f**king brain of your own and actually learn something you imbecile.

Satire is clearly something your unfamiliar with.

I am actually a fan. If I misjudged your humorous undertone, I apologize, but remember who you are dealing with in these threads.
gavin.ogden
Posts: 1,729
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1/5/2012 1:24:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/5/2012 1:17:02 AM, Physik wrote:
At 1/5/2012 1:01:31 AM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 1/5/2012 12:56:56 AM, Physik wrote:
Anti-medical marijuana

How dare he...

That's the one you hit on? Grow a f**king brain of your own and actually learn something you imbecile.

Satire is clearly something you're unfamiliar with.

Fixed.
Physik
Posts: 686
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1/5/2012 1:30:42 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/5/2012 1:24:10 AM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 1/5/2012 1:17:02 AM, Physik wrote:
At 1/5/2012 1:01:31 AM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 1/5/2012 12:56:56 AM, Physik wrote:
Anti-medical marijuana

How dare he...

That's the one you hit on? Grow a f**king brain of your own and actually learn something you imbecile.

Satire is clearly something you're unfamiliar with.

Fixed.

Whatever, tone gets lost so easily other the internet. Next time I'll say something like:

Anti-medical marijuana

How dare he.

(It's important to visualize my envisioned scenario when putting forth this comment. I am acting in the role of a stereotypical spaced out pot head. My hair is a mass of dreadlocks and fleas, and my clothes don't appear to have been washed since new years. As I'm typing the message, a look of happiness and glee overcomes my features, similar to the look an autistic kid gets when someone compliments him. After pressing enter, I dissolve into uncontrollable fits of laughter and decide to sleep at the base of my desk in what appears to be my own urine.)
"Just don't let them dissuade you. Stick to your beliefs no matter what and you'll be fine." - ConservativePolitico, the guy that accused me of being close-minded.

"We didn't start slavery, they themselves started it. When the white man first got to Africa they had already enslaved themselves, they just capitalized on an opportunity." - ConservativePolitico

"The Bible to me is a history book and requires very little faith to believe in." - ConservativePolitico
Physik
Posts: 686
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1/5/2012 1:31:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Whatever, tone gets lost so easily over the internet. Next time I'll say something like:

Fixed
"Just don't let them dissuade you. Stick to your beliefs no matter what and you'll be fine." - ConservativePolitico, the guy that accused me of being close-minded.

"We didn't start slavery, they themselves started it. When the white man first got to Africa they had already enslaved themselves, they just capitalized on an opportunity." - ConservativePolitico

"The Bible to me is a history book and requires very little faith to believe in." - ConservativePolitico
gavin.ogden
Posts: 1,729
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1/5/2012 1:42:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/5/2012 1:30:42 AM, Physik wrote:
At 1/5/2012 1:24:10 AM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 1/5/2012 1:17:02 AM, Physik wrote:
At 1/5/2012 1:01:31 AM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 1/5/2012 12:56:56 AM, Physik wrote:
Anti-medical marijuana

How dare he...

That's the one you hit on? Grow a f**king brain of your own and actually learn something you imbecile.

Satire is clearly something you're unfamiliar with.

Fixed.

Whatever, tone gets lost so easily other the internet. Next time I'll say something like:

Anti-medical marijuana

How dare he.

(It's important to visualize my envisioned scenario when putting forth this comment. I am acting in the role of a stereotypical spaced out pot head. My hair is a mass of dreadlocks and fleas, and my clothes don't appear to have been washed since new years. As I'm typing the message, a look of happiness and glee overcomes my features, similar to the look an autistic kid gets when someone compliments him. After pressing enter, I dissolve into uncontrollable fits of laughter and decide to sleep at the base of my desk in what appears to be my own urine.)

Well done! Bravo! AND... TOUCHE!
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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1/5/2012 2:43:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well, this was a pleasure to read. :)

Btw -- it is true, that Ted Sorensen wrote the majority of JFK's speeches. However, President Kennedy's most famous -- his Inaugural Address, the one the OP quoted and which also contains the famous "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" line was entirely written by the late president himself.

He was definitely among our very best.
Royaltee
Posts: 114
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1/5/2012 3:27:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/5/2012 2:43:25 AM, Ren wrote:
Btw -- it is true, that Ted Sorensen wrote the majority of JFK's speeches. However, President Kennedy's most famous -- his Inaugural Address, the one the OP quoted and which also contains the famous "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" line was entirely written by the late president himself.

From wikipedia:
[Sorensen] was particularly famous for having helped draft the inaugural address ... In later years, when pressed in interviews if he wrote the phrase, Sorenson would reply tongue-in-cheek "Ask not."
Ren
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1/5/2012 5:01:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/5/2012 3:27:35 AM, Royaltee wrote:
At 1/5/2012 2:43:25 AM, Ren wrote:
Btw -- it is true, that Ted Sorensen wrote the majority of JFK's speeches. However, President Kennedy's most famous -- his Inaugural Address, the one the OP quoted and which also contains the famous "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" line was entirely written by the late president himself.

From wikipedia:
[Sorensen] was particularly famous for having helped draft the inaugural address ... In later years, when pressed in interviews if he wrote the phrase, Sorenson would reply tongue-in-cheek "Ask not."

http://www.nytimes.com...

"In "Ask Not: The Inauguration of John F. Kennedy and the Speech That Changed America," Thurston Clarke wrote last year that "important and heretofore overlooked documentary evidence" proves that Kennedy was "the author of the most immortal and poetic passages of his inaugural address," "

"But in "Sounding the Trumpet: The Making of John F. Kennedy's Inaugural Address" (Ivan R. Dee), to be published in July, Richard J. Tofel, a lawyer and a former assistant publisher of The Wall Street Journal, concludes that "if we must identify" one man as the author of the speech, "that man must surely be not John Kennedy but Theodore Sorensen.""

Lol

"And neither disputes evidence unearthed by other Kennedy scholars long ago: that the provenance of the speech's most famous words, the "ask not" portion, has a less inspiring history."

So, "ask not" was definitely him, but the rest is up in the air -- he wrote at least 30% of it, though, that's for certain. :P
Royaltee
Posts: 114
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1/5/2012 2:24:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/5/2012 5:01:15 AM, Ren wrote:
So, "ask not" was definitely him
Your quotes do not reach this conclusion.
but the rest is up in the air -- he wrote at least 30% of it, though, that's for certain. :P
Wrong again. He might have wrote and revised some of it, there's no evidence he wrote at least 30% of it.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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1/5/2012 2:56:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/5/2012 2:24:57 PM, Royaltee wrote:
At 1/5/2012 5:01:15 AM, Ren wrote:
So, "ask not" was definitely him
Your quotes do not reach this conclusion.

...?

My last quote doesn't say that on it's own. Taken in context, that is exactly the conclusion that the article comes to, highlighted in the portion that begins where I copy/pasted it. It ends with:

"The words hark back at least to Kennedy's years at Choate, the Connecticut prep school, where the headmaster regularly reminded his charges that what mattered most was "not what Choate does for you, but what you can do for Choate.""

but the rest is up in the air -- he wrote at least 30% of it, though, that's for certain. :P
Wrong again. He might have wrote and revised some of it, there's no evidence he wrote at least 30% of it.

Yes, actually, the contention was that he only wrote a potion. The man that stated he didn't write the entire thing gave him credit for "at least 14 lines," which, out of the total 51:

"Of the 51 sentences in the inaugural address, John Kennedy might be said to have been the principal original author of no more than 14," Mr. Tofel writes. "And this number credits Kennedy with every sentence the origin of which is unclear.

So, there's that. :)
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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1/5/2012 3:07:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/4/2012 11:38:09 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
-John F Kennedy

Sounds like a speech that asks to give central power to a state in the hopes of maintaining "liberty". Hehehe, rarely is that the case.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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1/5/2012 3:25:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The quote says that the United States will do anything in order to procure liberty and freedom for ourselves and the people of the world. I posted it to combat the recent wave of Ron Paul hungry "non-interventionalists".
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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1/5/2012 3:32:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I feel like much of what politicans say when they start using phrases like "the survival of liberty" is basically hot air intended to please virtually any American citizen. It's no secret we've been supporting dictators for centuries and will continue to do so. I feel the unfortunate balance between liberty and security does, unfortunately, exist and trade offs will have to be made. Additionally, words like "liberty" are vague given the difference between substantial and formal liberties that anyone on either side of the political spectrum could use those terms to their utmost extent and still maintain consistency.
Royaltee
Posts: 114
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1/5/2012 4:09:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/5/2012 3:25:53 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
The quote says that the United States will do anything in order to procure liberty and freedom for ourselves and the people of the world. I posted it to combat the recent wave of Ron Paul hungry "non-interventionalists".

Are you willing to wage war on Iran, North Korea, Cuba, China, and a bunch of other countries around the world where liberty and freedom is at a minimum in order to "procure liberty and freedom for ourselves and the people of the world"? I doubt it. It's a stupid quote and JFK was a stupid man.
ConservativePolitico
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1/5/2012 4:23:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/5/2012 4:09:24 PM, Royaltee wrote:
At 1/5/2012 3:25:53 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
The quote says that the United States will do anything in order to procure liberty and freedom for ourselves and the people of the world. I posted it to combat the recent wave of Ron Paul hungry "non-interventionalists".

Are you willing to wage war on Iran, North Korea, Cuba, China, and a bunch of other countries around the world where liberty and freedom is at a minimum in order to "procure liberty and freedom for ourselves and the people of the world"? I doubt it. It's a stupid quote and JFK was a stupid man.

Yes I would be willing to do so.

Also JFK was far from stupid. He handled the Cuban Missle Crisis in a way not many would have been able to pull of. In fact I believe that he saved the world with the way he handled it. Anyone else would have gotten us blown up.

Those are not the words of a stupid man, they are the words of true American spirit which we have lost as of late.
Royaltee
Posts: 114
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1/5/2012 4:42:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/5/2012 4:23:57 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 1/5/2012 4:09:24 PM, Royaltee wrote:
At 1/5/2012 3:25:53 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
The quote says that the United States will do anything in order to procure liberty and freedom for ourselves and the people of the world. I posted it to combat the recent wave of Ron Paul hungry "non-interventionalists".

Are you willing to wage war on Iran, North Korea, Cuba, China, and a bunch of other countries around the world where liberty and freedom is at a minimum in order to "procure liberty and freedom for ourselves and the people of the world"? I doubt it. It's a stupid quote and JFK was a stupid man.

Yes I would be willing to do so.
That's embarrassing. America can barely win a war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Going up against China and North Korea at the same time would destroy the US economically and militarily.
Also JFK was far from stupid. He handled the Cuban Missle Crisis in a way not many would have been able to pull of. In fact I believe that he saved the world with the way he handled it. Anyone else would have gotten us blown up.
Yep, the Bay of Pigs went well.
Those are not the words of a stupid man, they are the words of true American spirit which we have lost as of late.
JFK was a decent orator who couldn't write his own speeches because his thought process doesn't go beyond that of basic platitudes. Obama is the same way.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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1/5/2012 5:07:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/5/2012 4:42:26 PM, Royaltee wrote:
At 1/5/2012 4:23:57 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 1/5/2012 4:09:24 PM, Royaltee wrote:
At 1/5/2012 3:25:53 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
The quote says that the United States will do anything in order to procure liberty and freedom for ourselves and the people of the world. I posted it to combat the recent wave of Ron Paul hungry "non-interventionalists".

Are you willing to wage war on Iran, North Korea, Cuba, China, and a bunch of other countries around the world where liberty and freedom is at a minimum in order to "procure liberty and freedom for ourselves and the people of the world"? I doubt it. It's a stupid quote and JFK was a stupid man.

Yes I would be willing to do so.
That's embarrassing. America can barely win a war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Going up against China and North Korea at the same time would destroy the US economically and militarily.

Now, why would we take them on at the same time? And second, we could, quite literally, qipe out NK's army in week, using only air strikes.

As for China, I think it would be difficult, but we could do it, even without there manufacturing.

Also JFK was far from stupid. He handled the Cuban Missle Crisis in a way not many would have been able to pull of. In fact I believe that he saved the world with the way he handled it. Anyone else would have gotten us blown up.
Yep, the Bay of Pigs went well.

Yes, but you conveniently forget about the whole crisis. The fact is, we did not go into a nuclear war.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/5/2012 5:09:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/5/2012 4:42:26 PM, Royaltee wrote:
At 1/5/2012 4:23:57 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 1/5/2012 4:09:24 PM, Royaltee wrote:
At 1/5/2012 3:25:53 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
The quote says that the United States will do anything in order to procure liberty and freedom for ourselves and the people of the world. I posted it to combat the recent wave of Ron Paul hungry "non-interventionalists".

Are you willing to wage war on Iran, North Korea, Cuba, China, and a bunch of other countries around the world where liberty and freedom is at a minimum in order to "procure liberty and freedom for ourselves and the people of the world"? I doubt it. It's a stupid quote and JFK was a stupid man.

Yes I would be willing to do so.
That's embarrassing. America can barely win a war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Going up against China and North Korea at the same time would destroy the US economically and militarily.
Also JFK was far from stupid. He handled the Cuban Missle Crisis in a way not many would have been able to pull of. In fact I believe that he saved the world with the way he handled it. Anyone else would have gotten us blown up.
Yep, the Bay of Pigs went well.
Those are not the words of a stupid man, they are the words of true American spirit which we have lost as of late.
JFK was a decent orator who couldn't write his own speeches because his thought process doesn't go beyond that of basic platitudes. Obama is the same way.

Get accepted into Columbia and graduate summa cum laude from Harvard before you tell me this.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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1/5/2012 5:10:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/5/2012 5:07:48 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/5/2012 4:42:26 PM, Royaltee wrote:
At 1/5/2012 4:23:57 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 1/5/2012 4:09:24 PM, Royaltee wrote:
At 1/5/2012 3:25:53 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
The quote says that the United States will do anything in order to procure liberty and freedom for ourselves and the people of the world. I posted it to combat the recent wave of Ron Paul hungry "non-interventionalists".

Are you willing to wage war on Iran, North Korea, Cuba, China, and a bunch of other countries around the world where liberty and freedom is at a minimum in order to "procure liberty and freedom for ourselves and the people of the world"? I doubt it. It's a stupid quote and JFK was a stupid man.

Yes I would be willing to do so.
That's embarrassing. America can barely win a war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Going up against China and North Korea at the same time would destroy the US economically and militarily.

Now, why would we take them on at the same time? And second, we could, quite literally, qipe out NK's army in week, using only air strikes.

As for China, I think it would be difficult, but we could do it, even without their manufacturing.

Also JFK was far from stupid. He handled the Cuban Missle Crisis in a way not many would have been able to pull of. In fact I believe that he saved the world with the way he handled it. Anyone else would have gotten us blown up.
Yep, the Bay of Pigs went well.

Yes, but you conveniently forget about the whole crisis. The fact is, we did not go into a nuclear war.

Fix'd
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Royaltee
Posts: 114
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1/5/2012 5:13:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/5/2012 5:07:48 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Now, why would we take them on at the same time? And second, we could, quite literally, qipe out NK's army in week, using only air strikes.
No you couldn't. Are you expecting the army to stand out in fields and wait for the USAF to drop bombs on their heads? NK would be able to use guerilla warfare just like the armies in Iraq and Vietnam did. It would take quite some time to overthrow the regime, and decades to ever win.
As for China, I think it would be difficult, but we could do it, even without there manufacturing.
The US would win in a war against China, but their would be hundreds of thousands dead and the worldwide economy would be destroyed.
Also JFK was far from stupid. He handled the Cuban Missle Crisis in a way not many would have been able to pull of. In fact I believe that he saved the world with the way he handled it. Anyone else would have gotten us blown up.
Yep, the Bay of Pigs went well.
Yes, but you conveniently forget about the whole crisis. The fact is, we did not go into a nuclear war.
No other President has allowed a nuclear bomb to hit the US either. Hardly an accomplishment.