Total Posts:36|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Republican Debate tonight on ABC

1Historygenius
Posts: 1,639
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/7/2012 10:41:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yesterday Elephant Watcher reported:
"The first primary debate since mid-December will take place tomorrow on ABC at 9:00pm Eastern. The Republican field has been winnowed down to six candidates: Gingrich, Huntsman, Paul, Perry, Romney, and Santorum. The debate will take place just a few days before the New Hampshire primary, where Mitt Romney has been leading in the polls by a significant margin all year. Romney's competitors will be tempted to make him a punching bag. Rick Santorum probably sees himself as the chief Anti-Romney, Newt Gingrich is reportedly steaming after his loss in Iowa, and for Jon Huntsman, it will be the last chance to be relevant. Rick Perry has historically enjoyed going on the attack against Romney, but if his strategy is based soley on South Carolina, he may realize he needs to attack Santorum instead.

Romney has a familiar frontrunner's challenge: How do you deal with a debate where everyone is attacking you, again and again? Though Romney has never experienced the spike-and-crash that others have--leading some to wrongly suggest that he hasn't been vetted yet--Romney should be used to being attacked. The key is to answer the opponent's substantive arguments, but not to show annoyance. Romney has gone both routes in past debates. Sometimes he is disciplined and is able to parry the attacks with good humor; other times he lets his opponents get under his skin. The latter leads to mistakes, like Romney's $10,000 challenge to Perry in a December debate. The debate will therefore be an important test for Romney, because most everyone will be trying to make him stumble.

Is the pile-on-Romney strategy appropriate in this case? For Santorum it probably is, as Gingrich may be falling under his own weight (one South Carolina poll shows Santorum slightly ahead of Gingrich). For Gingrich and Perry, the answer is no. Their target should be Santorum, who threatens to unite the Anti-Romney voters under his own banner. To stand a chance, they must launch an assault on Santorum that brings them down to their own post-crash polling level.

What should viewers look for in the debate? Romney has been criticized over Romneycare and his tenure at Bain Capital in multiple debates, but his opponents may come up with new material. The other thing to watch for is how Santorum's new position affects the dynamic. In previous debates, he was irrelevant and often whined about it. Now he has the chance to show what he can do with a starring role. And attacks against Santorum will be entirely new territory."

Currently, Romney has a 73% chance of winning the nomination, Gingrich 16%, and Santorum 11%. They will eventually recalculate after New Hampshire.
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

Latest debate - Reagan was a better President than Obama: http://www.debate.org...
1Historygenius
Posts: 1,639
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/7/2012 10:42:42 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
All the other candidates have a 0% chance of winning at the moment.
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

Latest debate - Reagan was a better President than Obama: http://www.debate.org...
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/7/2012 10:48:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://www.intrade.com...

If you're so confident in those predictions, go ahead and put your money where your mouth is, and you'll most likely make a considerable profit.
1Historygenius
Posts: 1,639
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/7/2012 11:14:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/7/2012 10:48:48 AM, mongeese wrote:
http://www.intrade.com...

If you're so confident in those predictions, go ahead and put your money where your mouth is, and you'll most likely make a considerable profit.

I don't gamble.
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

Latest debate - Reagan was a better President than Obama: http://www.debate.org...
mongoose
Posts: 3,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/7/2012 11:16:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/7/2012 11:14:11 AM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 1/7/2012 10:48:48 AM, mongeese wrote:
http://www.intrade.com...

If you're so confident in those predictions, go ahead and put your money where your mouth is, and you'll most likely make a considerable profit.

I don't gamble.

It's not gambling if you have a 100% chance of winning.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/7/2012 11:43:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/7/2012 11:14:11 AM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 1/7/2012 10:48:48 AM, mongeese wrote:
http://www.intrade.com...

If you're so confident in those predictions, go ahead and put your money where your mouth is, and you'll most likely make a considerable profit.

I don't gamble.

Then just sell stocks of everyone besides the ElephantWatcher's top three. You'd gain a considerable amount of money, calling an 8% chance a 0% chance. That's assuming that it is indeed a 0% chance, of course.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/7/2012 11:49:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/7/2012 10:41:07 AM, 1Historygenius wrote:

Currently, Romney has a 73% chance of winning the nomination, Gingrich 16%, and Santorum 11%. They will eventually recalculate after New Hampshire.

santorum has more of a chance of winning then the lizard
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
1Historygenius
Posts: 1,639
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/7/2012 11:50:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/7/2012 11:43:31 AM, mongeese wrote:
At 1/7/2012 11:14:11 AM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 1/7/2012 10:48:48 AM, mongeese wrote:
http://www.intrade.com...

If you're so confident in those predictions, go ahead and put your money where your mouth is, and you'll most likely make a considerable profit.

I don't gamble.

Then just sell stocks of everyone besides the ElephantWatcher's top three. You'd gain a considerable amount of money, calling an 8% chance a 0% chance. That's assuming that it is indeed a 0% chance, of course.

Stocks = Risks and I don't make risks unless it is really worth it. Most people have just invested in their candidates because they like him, but they cannot change the facts. For over 6 years Elephant Watcher has also picked the correct candidates. That is 2008 they were correct over John McCain and now six years later, whoever maybe the candidate with the largest percentage will win the nomination. These calculations change over time as candidates do different things. They also do discuss Intrade on their site and its does play some value to how they calculate, but they don't spin the facts.
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

Latest debate - Reagan was a better President than Obama: http://www.debate.org...
DanT
Posts: 5,693
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/7/2012 1:44:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/7/2012 11:49:20 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/7/2012 10:41:07 AM, 1Historygenius wrote:

Currently, Romney has a 73% chance of winning the nomination, Gingrich 16%, and Santorum 11%. They will eventually recalculate after New Hampshire.

santorum has more of a chance of winning then the lizard

nute gunray?
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/7/2012 1:51:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/7/2012 1:44:02 PM, DanT wrote:
At 1/7/2012 11:49:20 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/7/2012 10:41:07 AM, 1Historygenius wrote:

Currently, Romney has a 73% chance of winning the nomination, Gingrich 16%, and Santorum 11%. They will eventually recalculate after New Hampshire.

santorum has more of a chance of winning then the lizard

nute gunray?

lol
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/8/2012 12:05:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Did anyone else catch it? It was one of the politest hand-holding sessions I've seen this debate season. Romney was handed the nomination on a platter by everyone else on that stage.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

https://i.imgflip.com...
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/8/2012 12:30:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
That was kind of weird. I don't get it. Santorum made an initial slap against Romney by saying CEO experience was unnecessary, but after that it seemed like the moderators had to goad everyone into attacking each other. Perry called Paul a Washington insider, though, which seemed ridiculous even to the moderator.

Also, for the final segment, while the candidates discussed how they would be watching college football if they weren't running for President, my dad pointed out that there are no college football games tonight, which is verified by a fact check.
http://abcnews.go.com...
Raisor
Posts: 4,461
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/8/2012 1:16:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
There were a few light jabs at Romney. I think Huntsman called him on low job creation in Mass. Also I thought the China policy rebuttal by Huntsman was at least contentious. But yeah when you are coming off an Iowa win and polling strong in the next two caucuses its time to draw blood and that just didnt happen.

I just cant believe how much drivel Romney spews. Everything he gets asked he turns into the most saccharine platitudes. Most striking was when he got asked about infrastructure and responds with some empty slosh about how its entrepreneurial spirit that drives the economy and then gets followed up by Newt who actually talks about specific infrastructure improvement plans. The only candidate with less content than Romney is Perry.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/8/2012 1:34:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ron Paul, the clear winner of the debate.

There was no hand holding, Ron Paul came out swinging.
He destroyed Santorum and the moderator.

.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/8/2012 1:41:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 1:34:26 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Ron Paul, the clear winner of the debate.

There was no hand holding, Ron Paul came out swinging.
He destroyed Santorum and the moderator.

Eh, knowing you, that means he probably lost horribly.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
DanT
Posts: 5,693
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/8/2012 1:50:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 1:41:45 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/8/2012 1:34:26 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Ron Paul, the clear winner of the debate.

There was no hand holding, Ron Paul came out swinging.
He destroyed Santorum and the moderator.

Eh, knowing you, that means he probably lost horribly.

Ron Paul has good policies, but he is horrible with words.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
shift4101
Posts: 50
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/8/2012 2:02:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/7/2012 11:50:16 AM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 1/7/2012 11:43:31 AM, mongeese wrote:
At 1/7/2012 11:14:11 AM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 1/7/2012 10:48:48 AM, mongeese wrote:
http://www.intrade.com...

If you're so confident in those predictions, go ahead and put your money where your mouth is, and you'll most likely make a considerable profit.

I don't gamble.

Then just sell stocks of everyone besides the ElephantWatcher's top three. You'd gain a considerable amount of money, calling an 8% chance a 0% chance. That's assuming that it is indeed a 0% chance, of course.

Stocks = Risks and I don't make risks unless it is really worth it. Most people have just invested in their candidates because they like him, but they cannot change the facts. For over 6 years Elephant Watcher has also picked the correct candidates. That is 2008 they were correct over John McCain and now six years later, whoever maybe the candidate with the largest percentage will win the nomination. These calculations change over time as candidates do different things. They also do discuss Intrade on their site and its does play some value to how they calculate, but they don't spin the facts.

He is from 2014. Why don't you just tell us who will win?
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/8/2012 4:07:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 1:50:12 AM, DanT wrote:
Ron Paul has good policies, but he is horrible with words.

False. He's no Obama or Romney with words, but he's a clear and concise speaker and good at amping up the audience.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
1Historygenius
Posts: 1,639
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/8/2012 8:57:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 1:34:26 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Ron Paul, the clear winner of the debate.

There was no hand holding, Ron Paul came out swinging.
He destroyed Santorum and the moderator.




.

Nope, Romney won. He is the front runner in New Hampshire. If you don't attack him you will lose.

Here is a poll before the debate: 01/05 NBC/Marist -- Romney 42, Paul 22, Santorum 13, Huntsman 9

Here is a poll after the debate: 01/07 ARG -- Romney 40, Huntsman 17, Paul 16, Santorum 12

No one likes it when you attack people too much.
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

Latest debate - Reagan was a better President than Obama: http://www.debate.org...
1Historygenius
Posts: 1,639
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/8/2012 8:59:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 2:02:05 AM, shift4101 wrote:
At 1/7/2012 11:50:16 AM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 1/7/2012 11:43:31 AM, mongeese wrote:
At 1/7/2012 11:14:11 AM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 1/7/2012 10:48:48 AM, mongeese wrote:
http://www.intrade.com...

If you're so confident in those predictions, go ahead and put your money where your mouth is, and you'll most likely make a considerable profit.

I don't gamble.

Then just sell stocks of everyone besides the ElephantWatcher's top three. You'd gain a considerable amount of money, calling an 8% chance a 0% chance. That's assuming that it is indeed a 0% chance, of course.

Stocks = Risks and I don't make risks unless it is really worth it. Most people have just invested in their candidates because they like him, but they cannot change the facts. For over 6 years Elephant Watcher has also picked the correct candidates. That is 2008 they were correct over John McCain and now six years later, whoever maybe the candidate with the largest percentage will win the nomination. These calculations change over time as candidates do different things. They also do discuss Intrade on their site and its does play some value to how they calculate, but they don't spin the facts.

He is from 2014. Why don't you just tell us who will win?

Sorry, I meant 4 not 6.
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

Latest debate - Reagan was a better President than Obama: http://www.debate.org...
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/8/2012 9:19:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 4:07:59 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 1/8/2012 1:50:12 AM, DanT wrote:
Ron Paul has good policies, but he is horrible with words.

False. He's no Obama or Romney with words, but he's a clear and concise speaker and good at amping up the audience.

I like Paul; he radiates energy and intelligence. I trust him more than any other politician on the public stage, including Obama.

That said, he is generally long-winded, constantly doubles back on his words, and loses the plot with nearly every question. His responses are also often Biden-esqe, unpredictable, and confrontational, which cause the amping up to which you referred. These traits are simultaneously his charm (he is the antithesis of Romney and his platitudes) and his major weakness. Nobody wants to imagine a president's cabinet rolling their eyes or struggling to stay awake during oval office meetings.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

https://i.imgflip.com...
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/8/2012 9:42:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Is anyone else watching the Meet the Press debate? Looks like the gang has been listening to us (or anyone, anywhere who watched last night) and are attacking Romney mercilessly. We're 10 minutes in and he's been interrupted, mocked, and attacked by nearly everyone. Only Paul's taking the high road.

This is great.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

https://i.imgflip.com...
1Historygenius
Posts: 1,639
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/8/2012 10:21:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 9:42:25 AM, Maikuru wrote:
Is anyone else watching the Meet the Press debate? Looks like the gang has been listening to us (or anyone, anywhere who watched last night) and are attacking Romney mercilessly. We're 10 minutes in and he's been interrupted, mocked, and attacked by nearly everyone. Only Paul's taking the high road.

This is great.

There is a debate on right now? WTF put it on prime time!
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

Latest debate - Reagan was a better President than Obama: http://www.debate.org...
1Historygenius
Posts: 1,639
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/8/2012 10:26:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Here is Elephant Watcher's report after the debate:

"When answering the question of "who won tonight's debate?" this season, most of the time the answer has been mixed. This time, that's not the case. Mitt Romney overwhelmingly won the debate. It was perhaps the most one-sided debate so far, such that nearly every observer would agree that Romney was the winner.

It was expected that most of the candidates would spend their time attacking Romney. Although there were moments when most of the candidates were critical of Romney, they didn't devote much time to it. During the first half-hour in particular, the Anti-Romneys found themselves attacking each other instead. When Romney was criticized, he did not take the bait, but instead calmly made the case for why he should be president. It's clear that he was attempting to look presidential, and he succeeded in doing so more than the other candidates did.

No new attacks against Romney were laid out. There was some criticism of Romney's tenure at Bain Capital, which Romney dealt with even more effectively than in previous debates where the issue was raised. Romney listed specific companies that Bain helped start, and listed statistics of tens of thousands of jobs created by those companies. Romney also scored big against the debate moderator, George Stephanopoulos, who pressed Romney on whether states have the right to ban contraception. Romney found himself laughing at the absurdity of the question, since no state wants to ban contraception. It would be an understatement to say the audience was in Romney's corner. Stephanopoulos embarrassed himself.

The most contentious moments of the debate took place when Ron Paul got into extended fights with Rick Santorum (accusing Santorum of too much spending and taking money from lobbyists) and Newt Gingrich (accusing Gingrich of being a "chickenhawk" for not serving in the military). It was very evident that Gingrich and Paul do not like each other.

There were some odd moments. Rick Perry, falling back into the pattern of making at least one gaffe per night, said that if America did not return to Iraq, Iran would go back into Iraq "literally at the speed of light." Paul claimed that after communists in China murdered 100 million of their own people, America broke the ice with them by playing ping-pong. And in the middle of one response, Jon Huntsman randomly spoke in Chinese for no apparent reason.

Tonight was Rick Santorum's first opportunity to play a starring role in a debate. He gave a vanilla performance: Not bad, but not especially good. It was to his detriment that he was put on the defensive by Paul, as opposed to putting Romney on the defensive. If the other candidates were supposed to provide New Hampshire a reason not to hand the state to Romney, they did not provide it. Instead, they gave New Hampshire an excuse to deliver Romney a landslide."

However, apparently the idiots at "Meet the Press" thought it would be a good idea to have a debate in the morning and apparently Romney got ripped.
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

Latest debate - Reagan was a better President than Obama: http://www.debate.org...
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/8/2012 4:20:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
They will have an oppurtunity to unleash on Romney in tonights debate.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/8/2012 4:40:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 4:20:32 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
They will have an oppurtunity to unleash on Romney in tonights debate.

From what previous posts seem to have said, they already have.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/8/2012 4:48:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 1:16:52 AM, Raisor wrote:
There were a few light jabs at Romney. I think Huntsman called him on low job creation in Mass. Also I thought the China policy rebuttal by Huntsman was at least contentious. But yeah when you are coming off an Iowa win and polling strong in the next two caucuses its time to draw blood and that just didnt happen.

I just cant believe how much drivel Romney spews. Everything he gets asked he turns into the most saccharine platitudes. Most striking was when he got asked about infrastructure and responds with some empty slosh about how its entrepreneurial spirit that drives the economy and then gets followed up by Newt who actually talks about specific infrastructure improvement plans. The only candidate with less content than Romney is Perry.

Santorum called him a stupid CEO
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/8/2012 4:48:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 1:34:26 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Ron Paul, the clear winner of the debate.

There was no hand holding, Ron Paul came out swinging.
He destroyed Santorum and the moderator.




.

I disagree
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/8/2012 4:49:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 4:07:59 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 1/8/2012 1:50:12 AM, DanT wrote:
Ron Paul has good policies, but he is horrible with words.

False. He's no Obama or Romney with words, but he's a clear and concise speaker and good at amping up the audience.

yeah so behind in the polls and stuttering=good speaker
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/8/2012 5:18:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 4:48:48 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/8/2012 1:34:26 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Ron Paul, the clear winner of the debate.

There was no hand holding, Ron Paul came out swinging.
He destroyed Santorum and the moderator.

I disagree

Well you're disagreement is utterly worthless if you don't have any substantial reasons to back up your disagreement. Btw, Ron Paul's attacks on Santorum were determined to be true by fact checkers.

http://abcnews.go.com...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat