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Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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1/15/2012 1:10:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Whenever I am arguing with somebody about gay marriage or gay rights, they always bring up the argument that it hurts the other person if you say stuff like that. However, they never think that the argument goes the opposite way. Perhaps it hurts me that they think that gays should be able to marry.

Why do you think people only use the logic only one-way?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Teafood
Posts: 29
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1/15/2012 1:17:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:10:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Whenever I am arguing with somebody about gay marriage or gay rights, they always bring up the argument that it hurts the other person if you say stuff like that. However, they never think that the argument goes the opposite way. Perhaps it hurts me that they think that gays should be able to marry.

Why do you think people only use the logic only one-way?
So how are you hurt when people suggest that gays should have the same rights as you? Are you hurt because they don't hold the view that gays should be 2nd class citizens?
Gay people are emotional hurt by people like you who advocate that they be treated as if they are undeserving of the same rights as others
Its amazing that you think you get hurt because not everyone is a bigot like yourself
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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1/15/2012 1:21:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:17:35 PM, Teafood wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:10:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Whenever I am arguing with somebody about gay marriage or gay rights, they always bring up the argument that it hurts the other person if you say stuff like that. However, they never think that the argument goes the opposite way. Perhaps it hurts me that they think that gays should be able to marry.

Why do you think people only use the logic only one-way?
So how are you hurt when people suggest that gays should have the same rights as you? Are you hurt because they don't hold the view that gays should be 2nd class citizens?
Gay people are emotional hurt by people like you who advocate that they be treated as if they are undeserving of the same rights as others
Its amazing that you think you get hurt because not everyone is a bigot like yourself

We don't want gays to be second class citizens thats ridiculous they have the same rights as anyone else.

We hold that marriage is not a right and they shouldn't participate.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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1/15/2012 1:23:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:17:35 PM, Teafood wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:10:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Whenever I am arguing with somebody about gay marriage or gay rights, they always bring up the argument that it hurts the other person if you say stuff like that. However, they never think that the argument goes the opposite way. Perhaps it hurts me that they think that gays should be able to marry.

Why do you think people only use the logic only one-way?
So how are you hurt when people suggest that gays should have the same rights as you? Are you hurt because they don't hold the view that gays should be 2nd class citizens?
Gay people are emotional hurt by people like you who advocate that they be treated as if they are undeserving of the same rights as others
Its amazing that you think you get hurt because not everyone is a bigot like yourself

Don't bother. Just slaughter these fools in debate, forum discussion is a waste of time and energy.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
bhatti1020
Posts: 216
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1/15/2012 1:26:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I suppose that I'm a bigot because I don't think they should get married? They aren't being treated as 2nd class citizens, last time I checked, Gays can vote, serve openly in the military, go on about their business. Theres no seperate facilities for gays, no checkpoints for them. There isn't a special symbol that gays must wear.
-Tourism & Immigration minister for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
"hey, no Jerry springer here!"
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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1/15/2012 1:26:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:23:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:17:35 PM, Teafood wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:10:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Whenever I am arguing with somebody about gay marriage or gay rights, they always bring up the argument that it hurts the other person if you say stuff like that. However, they never think that the argument goes the opposite way. Perhaps it hurts me that they think that gays should be able to marry.

Why do you think people only use the logic only one-way?
So how are you hurt when people suggest that gays should have the same rights as you? Are you hurt because they don't hold the view that gays should be 2nd class citizens?
Gay people are emotional hurt by people like you who advocate that they be treated as if they are undeserving of the same rights as others
Its amazing that you think you get hurt because not everyone is a bigot like yourself

Don't bother. Just slaughter these fools in debate, forum discussion is a waste of time and energy.

I highly doubt that Teafood can slaughter me in a debate. Care to add anything, 000?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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1/15/2012 1:28:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:17:35 PM, Teafood wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:10:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Whenever I am arguing with somebody about gay marriage or gay rights, they always bring up the argument that it hurts the other person if you say stuff like that. However, they never think that the argument goes the opposite way. Perhaps it hurts me that they think that gays should be able to marry.

Why do you think people only use the logic only one-way?
So how are you hurt when people suggest that gays should have the same rights as you?
They do have the same rights as me.
Are you hurt because they don't hold the view that gays should be 2nd class citizens?
Second class citizen implies that they lack rights.
Gay people are emotional hurt by people like you who advocate that they be treated as if they are undeserving of the same rights as others
They have the same rights as others.
Its amazing that you think you get hurt because not everyone is a bigot like yourself

Marriage is not a right, it is a religious institution. 3000 years of history should not be threatened. I don't want to take rights away from gays, I'm just offended that they sometimes want to disregard history.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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1/15/2012 1:30:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:10:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Whenever I am arguing with somebody about gay marriage or gay rights, they always bring up the argument that it hurts the other person if you say stuff like that. However, they never think that the argument goes the opposite way. Perhaps it hurts me that they think that gays should be able to marry.

Why do you think people only use the logic only one-way?

Very valid point.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/15/2012 1:32:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:21:55 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:17:35 PM, Teafood wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:10:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Whenever I am arguing with somebody about gay marriage or gay rights, they always bring up the argument that it hurts the other person if you say stuff like that. However, they never think that the argument goes the opposite way. Perhaps it hurts me that they think that gays should be able to marry.

Why do you think people only use the logic only one-way?
So how are you hurt when people suggest that gays should have the same rights as you? Are you hurt because they don't hold the view that gays should be 2nd class citizens?
Gay people are emotional hurt by people like you who advocate that they be treated as if they are undeserving of the same rights as others
Its amazing that you think you get hurt because not everyone is a bigot like yourself

We don't want gays to be second class citizens thats ridiculous they have the same rights as anyone else.

We hold that marriage is not a right
So if the government decided Christian's can't use state marriage licenses but everyone else can, you'd have no cause to complain I presume.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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1/15/2012 1:33:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:32:37 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:21:55 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:17:35 PM, Teafood wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:10:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Whenever I am arguing with somebody about gay marriage or gay rights, they always bring up the argument that it hurts the other person if you say stuff like that. However, they never think that the argument goes the opposite way. Perhaps it hurts me that they think that gays should be able to marry.

Why do you think people only use the logic only one-way?
So how are you hurt when people suggest that gays should have the same rights as you? Are you hurt because they don't hold the view that gays should be 2nd class citizens?
Gay people are emotional hurt by people like you who advocate that they be treated as if they are undeserving of the same rights as others
Its amazing that you think you get hurt because not everyone is a bigot like yourself

We don't want gays to be second class citizens thats ridiculous they have the same rights as anyone else.

We hold that marriage is not a right
So if the government decided Christian's can't use state marriage licenses but everyone else can, you'd have no cause to complain I presume.

Marriage is a religious institution, so yes we do.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
bhatti1020
Posts: 216
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1/15/2012 1:33:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:32:37 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:21:55 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:17:35 PM, Teafood wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:10:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Whenever I am arguing with somebody about gay marriage or gay rights, they always bring up the argument that it hurts the other person if you say stuff like that. However, they never think that the argument goes the opposite way. Perhaps it hurts me that they think that gays should be able to marry.

Why do you think people only use the logic only one-way?
So how are you hurt when people suggest that gays should have the same rights as you? Are you hurt because they don't hold the view that gays should be 2nd class citizens?
Gay people are emotional hurt by people like you who advocate that they be treated as if they are undeserving of the same rights as others
Its amazing that you think you get hurt because not everyone is a bigot like yourself

We don't want gays to be second class citizens thats ridiculous they have the same rights as anyone else.

We hold that marriage is not a right
So if the government decided Christian's can't use state marriage licenses but everyone else can, you'd have no cause to complain I presume.
but that will not happen because christian marriages are heterosexual
-Tourism & Immigration minister for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
"hey, no Jerry springer here!"
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/15/2012 1:34:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Marriage is not a right, it is a religious institution. 3000 years of history should not be threatened.
S*** you want history to be preserved, we should have never gotten rid of slavery then? Probably older than marriage.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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1/15/2012 1:34:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:30:25 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:10:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Whenever I am arguing with somebody about gay marriage or gay rights, they always bring up the argument that it hurts the other person if you say stuff like that. However, they never think that the argument goes the opposite way. Perhaps it hurts me that they think that gays should be able to marry.

Why do you think people only use the logic only one-way?

Very valid point.

http://i.qkme.me...
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/15/2012 1:35:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:33:28 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:32:37 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:21:55 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:17:35 PM, Teafood wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:10:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Whenever I am arguing with somebody about gay marriage or gay rights, they always bring up the argument that it hurts the other person if you say stuff like that. However, they never think that the argument goes the opposite way. Perhaps it hurts me that they think that gays should be able to marry.

Why do you think people only use the logic only one-way?
So how are you hurt when people suggest that gays should have the same rights as you? Are you hurt because they don't hold the view that gays should be 2nd class citizens?
Gay people are emotional hurt by people like you who advocate that they be treated as if they are undeserving of the same rights as others
Its amazing that you think you get hurt because not everyone is a bigot like yourself

We don't want gays to be second class citizens thats ridiculous they have the same rights as anyone else.

We hold that marriage is not a right
So if the government decided Christian's can't use state marriage licenses but everyone else can, you'd have no cause to complain I presume.

Marriage is a religious institution, so yes we do.

Reread the bolded text.
You would remain free to get married at church, just like churches are free to exclude gay people from getting married at their church where gay marriage is legal.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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1/15/2012 1:35:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:34:02 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Marriage is not a right, it is a religious institution. 3000 years of history should not be threatened.
S*** you want history to be preserved, we should have never gotten rid of slavery then? Probably older than marriage.

Slavery violated rights. Not allowing homosexuals to marry doesn't.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/15/2012 1:35:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:33:51 PM, bhatti1020 wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:32:37 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:21:55 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:17:35 PM, Teafood wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:10:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Whenever I am arguing with somebody about gay marriage or gay rights, they always bring up the argument that it hurts the other person if you say stuff like that. However, they never think that the argument goes the opposite way. Perhaps it hurts me that they think that gays should be able to marry.

Why do you think people only use the logic only one-way?
So how are you hurt when people suggest that gays should have the same rights as you? Are you hurt because they don't hold the view that gays should be 2nd class citizens?
Gay people are emotional hurt by people like you who advocate that they be treated as if they are undeserving of the same rights as others
Its amazing that you think you get hurt because not everyone is a bigot like yourself

We don't want gays to be second class citizens thats ridiculous they have the same rights as anyone else.

We hold that marriage is not a right
So if the government decided Christian's can't use state marriage licenses but everyone else can, you'd have no cause to complain I presume.
but that will not happen because christian marriages are heterosexual

That's totally irrelevant, it's a reductio ad absurdum.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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1/15/2012 1:35:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:35:01 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:33:28 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:32:37 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:21:55 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:17:35 PM, Teafood wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:10:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Whenever I am arguing with somebody about gay marriage or gay rights, they always bring up the argument that it hurts the other person if you say stuff like that. However, they never think that the argument goes the opposite way. Perhaps it hurts me that they think that gays should be able to marry.

Why do you think people only use the logic only one-way?
So how are you hurt when people suggest that gays should have the same rights as you? Are you hurt because they don't hold the view that gays should be 2nd class citizens?
Gay people are emotional hurt by people like you who advocate that they be treated as if they are undeserving of the same rights as others
Its amazing that you think you get hurt because not everyone is a bigot like yourself

We don't want gays to be second class citizens thats ridiculous they have the same rights as anyone else.

We hold that marriage is not a right
So if the government decided Christian's can't use state marriage licenses but everyone else can, you'd have no cause to complain I presume.

Marriage is a religious institution, so yes we do.

Reread the bolded text.
You would remain free to get married at church, just like churches are free to exclude gay people from getting married at their church where gay marriage is legal.

Wha?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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1/15/2012 1:35:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:34:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:30:25 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:10:11 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Whenever I am arguing with somebody about gay marriage or gay rights, they always bring up the argument that it hurts the other person if you say stuff like that. However, they never think that the argument goes the opposite way. Perhaps it hurts me that they think that gays should be able to marry.

Why do you think people only use the logic only one-way?

Very valid point.

http://i.qkme.me...

Genuine.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/15/2012 1:36:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:35:14 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:34:02 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Marriage is not a right, it is a religious institution. 3000 years of history should not be threatened.
S*** you want history to be preserved, we should have never gotten rid of slavery then? Probably older than marriage.

Slavery violated rights. Not allowing homosexuals to marry doesn't.

Taxing homosexuals to pay for a "religious institution" violates rights.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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1/15/2012 1:37:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:36:15 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:35:14 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:34:02 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Marriage is not a right, it is a religious institution. 3000 years of history should not be threatened.
S*** you want history to be preserved, we should have never gotten rid of slavery then? Probably older than marriage.

Slavery violated rights. Not allowing homosexuals to marry doesn't.

Taxing homosexuals to pay for a "religious institution" violates rights.

Such as?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/15/2012 1:37:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Not to mention taxing single people for it.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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1/15/2012 1:38:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What type of rights does it violate?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
bhatti1020
Posts: 216
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1/15/2012 1:39:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
taxpayers pay for tanks..whens the last time you drove one?
-Tourism & Immigration minister for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
"hey, no Jerry springer here!"
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/15/2012 1:39:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:37:31 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:36:15 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:35:14 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:34:02 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Marriage is not a right, it is a religious institution. 3000 years of history should not be threatened.
S*** you want history to be preserved, we should have never gotten rid of slavery then? Probably older than marriage.

Slavery violated rights. Not allowing homosexuals to marry doesn't.

Taxing homosexuals to pay for a "religious institution" violates rights.

Such as?

Every single bit of involvement the government has in marriage is paid for by taxes. The tax breaks for married people? Those come out of the taxes of non married people. The various bureaucratic rules about what married people get to do and the rest don't in hospitals and the like? Enforced through tax dollars. The goddamn paper the marriage license is printed on and the time the judge spends putting it together? Taxes.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/15/2012 1:40:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:38:57 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
What type of rights does it violate?

The right to property.

The right to freedom of religion and therefore freedom from state religion.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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1/15/2012 1:40:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:39:34 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:37:31 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:36:15 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:35:14 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:34:02 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Marriage is not a right, it is a religious institution. 3000 years of history should not be threatened.
S*** you want history to be preserved, we should have never gotten rid of slavery then? Probably older than marriage.

Slavery violated rights. Not allowing homosexuals to marry doesn't.

Taxing homosexuals to pay for a "religious institution" violates rights.

Such as?

Every single bit of involvement the government has in marriage is paid for by taxes. The tax breaks for married people? Those come out of the taxes of non married people. The various bureaucratic rules about what married people get to do and the rest don't in hospitals and the like? Enforced through tax dollars. The goddamn paper the marriage license is printed on and the time the judge spends putting it together? Taxes.

You have avoided my point. What rights, specifically, does it violate?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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1/15/2012 1:41:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:40:19 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:38:57 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
What type of rights does it violate?

The right to property.
So denying homosexuals marriage licenses makes them unable to own property? Nice try.
The right to freedom of religion and therefore freedom from state religion.

Care to explain where you got that "therefore" from?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/15/2012 1:41:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:39:12 PM, bhatti1020 wrote:
taxpayers pay for tanks..whens the last time you drove one?
That's not justified either, but its closer to being justified than marriage taxes, since the tank defends the police's jurisdiction and the police deter criminals from going after me.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
bhatti1020
Posts: 216
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1/15/2012 1:42:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/15/2012 1:40:19 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/15/2012 1:38:57 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
What type of rights does it violate?

The right to property.

The right to freedom of religion and therefore freedom from state religion.

the right to property?
gays canhave their own hosues you know. Their own businesses
-Tourism & Immigration minister for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
"hey, no Jerry springer here!"
bhatti1020
Posts: 216
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1/15/2012 1:43:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
you also pay for my education...thanks
-Tourism & Immigration minister for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
"hey, no Jerry springer here!"