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Should Government Censor the Internet ?

inferno
Posts: 10,556
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1/18/2012 8:43:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
There is a rumor out that in the future people will have to use some sort of currency to browse certain websites that are made for the general public. I think that this is going to cause some major problems down the road. I am displeased at the fact that I was not able to use "Google" today because of the political and cyber nonsense that is going on in today's world. You have hackers, spies, cons, and snoopers who are doing unscrupulous acts of treason in the dark of night.
This is only the beginning my friends. This is the beginning of the war of cyberspace. What do you think about this ? Comments please.
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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1/18/2012 10:08:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Totally support it. We elect the government so that they can take care of us. They look out for our well being. If it was not for them, I'd hear the word f*ck and c*nt a lot more frequently. I'm waiting for spontaneous combustible bombs that can be fitted into humans. That way, whenever a person 'poses a threat to general well being of the nation', the supreme head could just go 'Click click click'. And then peace would be restored...
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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1/18/2012 10:17:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 10:08:09 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
Totally support it. We elect the government so that they can take care of us. They look out for our well being. If it was not for them, I'd hear the word f*ck and c*nt a lot more frequently. I'm waiting for spontaneous combustible bombs that can be fitted into humans. That way, whenever a person 'poses a threat to general well being of the nation', the supreme head could just go 'Click click click'. And then peace would be restored...

Battle Royale ftw.
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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1/18/2012 10:31:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 10:17:04 AM, Ren wrote:
At 1/18/2012 10:08:09 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
Totally support it. We elect the government so that they can take care of us. They look out for our well being. If it was not for them, I'd hear the word f*ck and c*nt a lot more frequently. I'm waiting for spontaneous combustible bombs that can be fitted into humans. That way, whenever a person 'poses a threat to general well being of the nation', the supreme head could just go 'Click click click'. And then peace would be restored...

Battle Royale ftw.

It's really ironic that when I went out to see what battle royale actually was, I was greeted by this page : http://en.wikipedia.org...(film)
inferno
Posts: 10,556
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1/18/2012 10:53:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 10:31:19 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 1/18/2012 10:17:04 AM, Ren wrote:
At 1/18/2012 10:08:09 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
Totally support it. We elect the government so that they can take care of us. They look out for our well being. If it was not for them, I'd hear the word f*ck and c*nt a lot more frequently. I'm waiting for spontaneous combustible bombs that can be fitted into humans. That way, whenever a person 'poses a threat to general well being of the nation', the supreme head could just go 'Click click click'. And then peace would be restored...

Battle Royale ftw.

It's really ironic that when I went out to see what battle royale actually was, I was greeted by this page : http://en.wikipedia.org...(film)

Yes, I know. They are getting outrageous nowdays.
Lickdafoot
Posts: 5,599
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1/18/2012 11:38:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Of course they should not censor the internet. Bills such as SOPA and PIPA are designed to enforce copyright infringement issues.While this is seemingly reasonable, people have a right to the product that they made- videos, movies, music, etc, it will come with an onslaught of problems and a general degradation of the internet. Sites like youtube will be no more. Families will get sued for posting a video of their daughter singing along to her favorite song. Up and coming websites will be bullied out of their space on the internet. Any website that poses a threat to copyright infringement will be shut down. That means no more blogs. No more sharing sites. Maybe no more ddo.

We have a right to seek out the information that we want. Censorship of the internet enforced by the government means the government has control of all information that gets out there. No more hours and hours of endless searching to find the truth of whatever niche you are interested in. We will only find generic, biased, dilluded, misinformed information: sort of like the information that we now get from the tv. Websites will push an agenda. It will become more and more hard for us to find the truth about our history, how we got to where we are now, and what is really going on in the world.

The truth is the government knows how threatening their citizens are towards their power and wealth, and they know that the internet frees us from suppression. They will do what they have to do in order to keep the control, in the most subtle and non-rousing way as possible.

So it is likely that a lot of the popular websites will remain; albeit changed in ways. But the heart of the internet, the endless amount of sites that expose truth, will be gone.
WAKE UP AND READ THIS: http://www.debate.org...
inferno
Posts: 10,556
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1/18/2012 11:43:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 11:38:53 AM, Lickdafoot wrote:
Of course they should not censor the internet. Bills such as SOPA and PIPA are designed to enforce copyright infringement issues.While this is seemingly reasonable, people have a right to the product that they made- videos, movies, music, etc, it will come with an onslaught of problems and a general degradation of the internet. Sites like youtube will be no more. Families will get sued for posting a video of their daughter singing along to her favorite song. Up and coming websites will be bullied out of their space on the internet. Any website that poses a threat to copyright infringement will be shut down. That means no more blogs. No more sharing sites. Maybe no more ddo.

We have a right to seek out the information that we want. Censorship of the internet enforced by the government means the government has control of all information that gets out there. No more hours and hours of endless searching to find the truth of whatever niche you are interested in. We will only find generic, biased, dilluded, misinformed information: sort of like the information that we now get from the tv. Websites will push an agenda. It will become more and more hard for us to find the truth about our history, how we got to where we are now, and what is really going on in the world.

The truth is the government knows how threatening their citizens are towards their power and wealth, and they know that the internet frees us from suppression. They will do what they have to do in order to keep the control, in the most subtle and non-rousing way as possible.

So it is likely that a lot of the popular websites will remain; albeit changed in ways. But the heart of the internet, the endless amount of sites that expose truth, will be gone.

But you cant tone down the copyright issues by reforming the music industry and giving warnings to people who wish to violate those laws. Other than that, I think that everything else can be done independently and by that website organization.
Lickdafoot
Posts: 5,599
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1/18/2012 11:49:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 11:43:04 AM, inferno wrote:

But you cant tone down the copyright issues by reforming the music industry and giving warnings to people who wish to violate those laws. Other than that, I think that everything else can be done independently and by that website organization.

Things can be solved in other ways. The music industry is f*cked up and needs an overhaul anyways. Yet the government wishes to fix the issue by having the control over it. Makes you wonder what they are really after, yes?
WAKE UP AND READ THIS: http://www.debate.org...
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/18/2012 11:56:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 11:49:26 AM, Lickdafoot wrote:
At 1/18/2012 11:43:04 AM, inferno wrote:

But you cant tone down the copyright issues by reforming the music industry and giving warnings to people who wish to violate those laws. Other than that, I think that everything else can be done independently and by that website organization.

Things can be solved in other ways. The music industry is f*cked up and needs an overhaul anyways. Yet the government wishes to fix the issue by having the control over it. Makes you wonder what they are really after, yes?

The control is not flowing to the government; instead, it is being shifted to the corporations that hope to exploit the government's monopoly on violence to censor the internet. This is nothing more than a corporate plot.
Lickdafoot
Posts: 5,599
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1/18/2012 12:04:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 11:56:44 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/18/2012 11:49:26 AM, Lickdafoot wrote:
At 1/18/2012 11:43:04 AM, inferno wrote:

But you cant tone down the copyright issues by reforming the music industry and giving warnings to people who wish to violate those laws. Other than that, I think that everything else can be done independently and by that website organization.

Things can be solved in other ways. The music industry is f*cked up and needs an overhaul anyways. Yet the government wishes to fix the issue by having the control over it. Makes you wonder what they are really after, yes?

The control is not flowing to the government; instead, it is being shifted to the corporations that hope to exploit the government's monopoly on violence to censor the internet. This is nothing more than a corporate plot.

yes, that is true. the government is controlled by the people in power, so at the end of the day it's all the same. us middle class citizens get the sh*t end of the stick. We will stay blinded and shallow, fat and entertained, in order to keep them from losing what they want.
WAKE UP AND READ THIS: http://www.debate.org...
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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1/18/2012 12:32:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why are we still protecting the music industry so desperately? Technology marches on. We used to use boats to get to other countries, now we use planes. We can duplicate data for free - you are not taking any resource from anyone by doing so - it can not be theft.
It is sad for struggling musicians that they have to survive on live performances now, but the new technology has provided them with benefits too; such as free advertising.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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1/18/2012 10:00:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Piracy is not as crippling as Hollywood would make you believe.

Main sources of revenue:

concerts
movie theater showings
appearences
advertisements

Online piracy does not affect any of those.

Besides this isn't the governments job.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/19/2012 12:11:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 12:32:58 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
Why are we still protecting the music industry so desperately? Technology marches on. We used to use boats to get to other countries, now we use planes. We can duplicate data for free - you are not taking any resource from anyone by doing so - it can not be theft.
If I use the mill you spent lots of money building to grind my grain without compensating you for the right to use that mill, I am not a thief? Or if I go joyriding in your boat?

It is not because the music industry is doing something "obsolete" that they are suffering financially, it is because the things they have created are being used without compensation. If it were obsolete, piracy would not occur, as there would be no need to download the copyrighted information.

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch, you cannot duplicate data for free, for you cannot duplicate data unless the data exists, and the data existing entails costs.

Not that SOPA is the right solution or anything.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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1/19/2012 6:54:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/19/2012 12:11:02 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/18/2012 12:32:58 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
Why are we still protecting the music industry so desperately? Technology marches on. We used to use boats to get to other countries, now we use planes. We can duplicate data for free - you are not taking any resource from anyone by doing so - it can not be theft.
If I use the mill you spent lots of money building to grind my grain without compensating you for the right to use that mill, I am not a thief? Or if I go joyriding in your boat?

It is not because the music industry is doing something "obsolete" that they are suffering financially, it is because the things they have created are being used without compensation. If it were obsolete, piracy would not occur, as there would be no need to download the copyrighted information.

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch, you cannot duplicate data for free, for you cannot duplicate data unless the data exists, and the data existing entails costs.

Not that SOPA is the right solution or anything.

I'm not using your mill though. I'm using the designs for your mill and building my own. By all means, sell me the designs if you are the only one who has them, but if not, you don't own the combination of lines on the paper which constitute the design nor the use of such lines.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/19/2012 7:25:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/19/2012 6:54:35 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 1/19/2012 12:11:02 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/18/2012 12:32:58 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
Why are we still protecting the music industry so desperately? Technology marches on. We used to use boats to get to other countries, now we use planes. We can duplicate data for free - you are not taking any resource from anyone by doing so - it can not be theft.
If I use the mill you spent lots of money building to grind my grain without compensating you for the right to use that mill, I am not a thief? Or if I go joyriding in your boat?

It is not because the music industry is doing something "obsolete" that they are suffering financially, it is because the things they have created are being used without compensation. If it were obsolete, piracy would not occur, as there would be no need to download the copyrighted information.

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch, you cannot duplicate data for free, for you cannot duplicate data unless the data exists, and the data existing entails costs.

Not that SOPA is the right solution or anything.

I'm not using your mill though. I'm using the designs for your mill and building my own. By all means, sell me the designs if you are the only one who has them, but if not, you don't own the combination of lines on the paper which constitute the design nor the use of such lines.

Ideas cannot be copyrighted; how the ideas are expressed can, however. So the document containing the design is owned, but the design itself is not.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/19/2012 6:38:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/19/2012 6:54:35 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 1/19/2012 12:11:02 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/18/2012 12:32:58 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
Why are we still protecting the music industry so desperately? Technology marches on. We used to use boats to get to other countries, now we use planes. We can duplicate data for free - you are not taking any resource from anyone by doing so - it can not be theft.
If I use the mill you spent lots of money building to grind my grain without compensating you for the right to use that mill, I am not a thief? Or if I go joyriding in your boat?

It is not because the music industry is doing something "obsolete" that they are suffering financially, it is because the things they have created are being used without compensation. If it were obsolete, piracy would not occur, as there would be no need to download the copyrighted information.

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch, you cannot duplicate data for free, for you cannot duplicate data unless the data exists, and the data existing entails costs.

Not that SOPA is the right solution or anything.

I'm not using your mill though. I'm using the designs for your mill and building my own.
It is far costlier in the modern world to design the mill than to build the mill. You are stealing the use of a far larger investment if you use the design for my mill than if you use my mill.

but if not, you don't own the combination of lines on the paper which constitute the design nor the use of such lines.
Without me, that combination of lines would not exist. Every copy of the mill you've seen other than the one you purchased from me was made by reference to mine, in violation of my rights as that design's owner. I am the creator of that design. Creation is the criteria for initial ownership.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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1/19/2012 7:07:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 10:00:53 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Piracy is not as crippling as Hollywood would make you believe.

Main sources of revenue:

concerts
movie theater showings
appearences
advertisements:

Even fairly well-known artists are still starving artisist who are exploited by the music industry. The bands themselves receive a tiny, tiny fraction of the proceeds sold by their albums. When their music is pirated, it's their label that has a hissy fit, because they're the ones who receive the proceeds. The bands make their money at concerts and selling merchandise (like you said, you can't pirate that).

Online piracy does not affect any of those.:

Nope, and it's incumbent upon the music/film industry itself to secure their investments. All this is doing is biting them in the @ss even more. It's going to stifle innovation and it's going to severely damage an already damaged economy. F*cking idiots.

Besides this isn't the governments job.:

Nope, it's just their alibi to gain control over teh interwebz... something that does not belong to any one person or conglomerate, let alone the gub'ment.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/19/2012 7:09:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Even fairly well-known artists are still starving artisist who are exploited by the music industry. The bands themselves receive a tiny, tiny fraction of the proceeds sold by their albums.
Then why, pray tell, do the bands permit the record companies to publish the albums?

The government's job, btw, is to protect private property.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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1/19/2012 7:22:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/19/2012 7:09:38 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Even fairly well-known artists are still starving artisist who are exploited by the music industry. The bands themselves receive a tiny, tiny fraction of the proceeds sold by their albums.
Then why, pray tell, do the bands permit the record companies to publish the albums?:

Because they need capital for studio time and distribution of their albums. It's on the band who sign bad deals with companies, I'm just reminding people that pirating music doesn't take away from the bands bank roll but their respective labels.

The government's job, btw, is to protect private property.:

Yes, it is. But in this instance, what property is being stolen? Duplicating music doesn't steal or monopolize the music, it simply spreads it and increases its popularity. If the record labels don't like it, don't you think it would be intelligent for them to encript it and for the encryption to be lifted upon purchase?

This is all going to blow up in their faces.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
vmpire321
Posts: 4,731
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1/19/2012 7:45:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/18/2012 10:53:56 AM, inferno wrote:
At 1/18/2012 10:31:19 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 1/18/2012 10:17:04 AM, Ren wrote:
At 1/18/2012 10:08:09 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
Totally support it. We elect the government so that they can take care of us. They look out for our well being. If it was not for them, I'd hear the word f*ck and c*nt a lot more frequently. I'm waiting for spontaneous combustible bombs that can be fitted into humans. That way, whenever a person 'poses a threat to general well being of the nation', the supreme head could just go 'Click click click'. And then peace would be restored...

Battle Royale ftw.

It's really ironic that when I went out to see what battle royale actually was, I was greeted by this page : http://en.wikipedia.org...(film)

Yes, I know. They are getting outrageous nowdays.

i've read the book version..
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/19/2012 8:47:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/19/2012 7:22:01 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 1/19/2012 7:09:38 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Even fairly well-known artists are still starving artisist who are exploited by the music industry. The bands themselves receive a tiny, tiny fraction of the proceeds sold by their albums.
Then why, pray tell, do the bands permit the record companies to publish the albums?:

Because they need capital for studio time and distribution of their albums.
Why do they need it unless they benefit from their albums being distributed?

Yes, it is. But in this instance, what property is being stolen? Duplicating music doesn't steal or monopolize the music, it simply spreads it and increases its popularity.
And free rides on the cost of creating the music without compensation. The fixed cost of creating a song isn't reduced just because the distribution costs reduce.

And yes, it does steal. It does not remove the music,but neither does using a mill without compensation. If you do it you're still a trespasser and a thief.

If the record labels don't like it, don't you think it would be intelligent for them to encript it and for the encryption to be lifted upon purchase?
It's called DRM and customers get pissy about it and it doesn't usually work anyway. (plus your particular version of it is PROFOUNDLY stupid, as once it's unencrypted you can COPY the unencrypted version and you're back to square one as everyone takes the copy and an extremely popular song sells one goddamn album because everyone else stole it). The best DRM model so far is Steamworks for games where you have to connect to an account through the internet in order to play them, but obviously this would not be attractive for music.


This is all going to blow up in their faces.
Doing nothing will blow up in their faces too.

There are legitimate problems with SOPA, but intellectual property is a real thing. If it weren't, there wouldn't be a problem, as you could just download music that DIDNT involve someone else's creations without their consent.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.