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Restoring diplomatic relations with Iran

Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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1/21/2012 5:20:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The United States has not had official diplomatic relations with the Islamic Republic of Iran since prior to the 1979 Iranian Revolution.
Also, any communication with the nation since 2003 has been highly strained or nonexistent, largely due to a number of incidents including but not limited to: the Iranian nuclear development program, alleged Iranian government support for Islamist insurgent groups in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the 2011 Saudi ambassador assassination plot.
I take the position that restoring diplomatic relations with Iran would give the United States more awareness of public and private Iranian matters, and would allow for free trade between our nations.
In addition, peace agreements would insure protection from Iran's ever-growing nuclear program, and ensure that more US eyes and ears are aware of Middle-Eastern matters.
So, I think the United States should allow for diplomatic relations and free trade with the Islamic Republic of Iran.

There's an apt Thomas Jefferson quote for this situation: "Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none."

I am open to your views, opinion, and arguments on the matter.
Let the civil discourse commence!
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OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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1/21/2012 9:18:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
See, I have a problem with being "friends" with people that wanna nuke our cities, and murder all of us.

Just a little preference of mine.
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Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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1/21/2012 10:31:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/21/2012 9:18:01 AM, OberHerr wrote:
See, I have a problem with being "friends" with people that wanna nuke our cities, and murder all of us.
This.

Personally, I really think we should revive our Atomic Bomb after 60+years of inactivity.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
vmpire321
Posts: 4,731
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1/21/2012 10:37:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/21/2012 10:31:30 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/21/2012 9:18:01 AM, OberHerr wrote:
See, I have a problem with being "friends" with people that wanna nuke our cities, and murder all of us.
This.

Personally, I really think we should revive our Atomic Bomb after 60+years of inactivity.

lmao. Now that's extreme....

but we are dealing with some extremists? Lol.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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1/21/2012 10:45:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Iran is run as a radical theocracy under a Supreme Ruler... I don't think we should be communicating with any such person on a formal basis.

There's also that whole "Down with the west" and "We hate Israel" thing that gets in the way.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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1/21/2012 11:01:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/21/2012 10:45:33 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Iran is run as a radical theocracy under a Supreme Ruler... I don't think we should be communicating with any such person on a formal basis.

There's also that whole "Down with the west" and "We hate Israel" thing that gets in the way.

There is no "Supreme Ruler". It's a board of crazy Jihadists that praise Allah every minute. In reality, Ahmadinejad has no power.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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1/21/2012 1:40:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/21/2012 5:20:00 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
The United States has not had official diplomatic relations with the Islamic Republic of Iran since prior to the 1979 Iranian Revolution.

There is a reason for that. We don't make friends for the sake of making friends. Especially when said friendship could be used to back-stab us.
For example, Stalin made friends with Hitler, and look how that turned out... Hitler ended up invading Russia.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
oreostar
Posts: 55
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1/21/2012 2:10:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
i wonder why.... maybe it has to do with the years of abuse from the CIA the british and american oil industry form decades before the Iranian revolution. the u.s should leave the entire middle east, they skewed everything up for those people for years. the people of Iran will have to stand up for themselves and clean up the mess u.s has left behind. the U.S has to exept he fact that it will take decades before the two country will restore relations.
vmpire321
Posts: 4,731
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1/21/2012 2:15:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/21/2012 2:10:33 PM, oreostar wrote:
i wonder why.... maybe it has to do with the years of abuse from the CIA the british and american oil industry form decades before the Iranian revolution. the u.s should leave the entire middle east,
And leave a threat alone?
they skewed everything up for those people for years. the people of Iran will have to stand up for themselves and clean up the mess u.s has left behind. the U.S has to exept he fact that it will take decades before the two country will restore relations.
oreostar
Posts: 55
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1/21/2012 2:42:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
im just saying that its better if the U.S leaves, they basically skrewed them up to the point where they started a revolution. the u.s basically put a dictator leader in iran for two decades, who killed millions of people man. the when the shah was removed and the us left and the iran rev started the county was lawless and corrupted. still to this day they are like that, thats like china coming to the use taking they out resources without paying the people, corrupting society and politics and then leave and china asking why does the us want to blow our brain off our body... i believe it will take decades forus and iran to revolve all problems and form a alliance
oreostar
Posts: 55
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1/21/2012 2:44:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/21/2012 9:18:01 AM, OberHerr wrote:
See, I have a problem with being "friends" with people that wanna nuke our cities, and murder all of us.

Just a little preference of mine.

you ask why they want to nuke our cities, and murder all of us before holding resentment against them. read this http://www.iranchamber.com...
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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1/21/2012 3:13:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I doubt the US could ever truly be friends with Iran as long as they have the same regime. However, they should at least try to have discussion and try to come to some negotiation. Also, the Iranian people themselves aren't crazy, just the regime.
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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1/21/2012 3:25:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/21/2012 9:18:01 AM, OberHerr wrote:
See, I have a problem with being "friends" with people that wanna nuke our cities, and murder all of us.

Just a little preference of mine.

Someone's been watching a little too much Fox News. Incidentally, we've had this argument before on another forum, and you totally failed to provide any proof that the Iranian government wants to nuke our cities and murder all of us. There is no proof to support that and besides, given what our country is capable of, they wouldn't dare.

And even if your silly, propagandist narrative were true, wouldn't offering diplomacy be the best way to reduce that tension? If they really did want to nuke our cities and murder all of us - something I don't necessarily deny, I just contend there's zero evidence to support that contention - you'd think trying to, idk, maybe talk them out of it would be a good course of action. If they hate us and want to kill us, why not offer them peace and friendship so they don't hate us and want to kill us? I'm no political scientist but that seems like common sense.

Your neoconservative, Faux News-based position makes absolutely no sense. If they don't want to kill us, we shouldn't be talking about going to war with them. If they do, why the hell not try to talk them out of it???? Fine, say they're crazy and would never listen, but why not exhaust all options before we engage in another long war that costs trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives? You guys don't ever seem to consider diplomacy for a second. I've got news for you - it tends to be more effective in inducing cooperation and fostering friendship than threats, sanctions, bombs, and bullets... And it's a hell of a lot less expensive.

Yeah, we should try restoring diplomatic relations with Iran before starting another war. There's nothing to lose by doing that. It's just common sense.
oreostar
Posts: 55
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1/21/2012 3:41:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
And even if your silly, propagandist narrative were true, wouldn't offering diplomacy be the best way to reduce that tension? If they really did want to nuke our cities and murder all of us - something I don't necessarily deny, I just contend there's zero evidence to support that contention - you'd think trying to, idk, maybe talk them out of it would be a good course of action. If they hate us and want to kill us, why not offer them peace and friendship so they don't hate us and want to kill us? I'm no political scientist but that seems like common sense.
Your neoconservative, Faux News-based position makes absolutely no sense. If they don't want to kill us, we shouldn't be talking about going to war with them. If they do, why the hell not try to talk them out of it???? Fine, say they're crazy and would never listen, but why not exhaust all options before we engage in another long war that costs trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives? You guys don't ever seem to consider diplomacy for a second. I've got news for you - it tends to be more effective in inducing cooperation and fostering friendship than threats, sanctions, bombs, and bullets... And it's a hell of a lot less expensive.

you sound like a very auspicious person, let me tell you that attacks on someones political beliefs doesn't justify your point, they make you seem ignorant and silly. what you don't understand is that common sense is a myth. If common sense was true then everyone would understand what you and i know about iran.
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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1/21/2012 3:58:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/21/2012 3:41:44 PM, oreostar wrote:
And even if your silly, propagandist narrative were true, wouldn't offering diplomacy be the best way to reduce that tension? If they really did want to nuke our cities and murder all of us - something I don't necessarily deny, I just contend there's zero evidence to support that contention - you'd think trying to, idk, maybe talk them out of it would be a good course of action. If they hate us and want to kill us, why not offer them peace and friendship so they don't hate us and want to kill us? I'm no political scientist but that seems like common sense.
Your neoconservative, Faux News-based position makes absolutely no sense. If they don't want to kill us, we shouldn't be talking about going to war with them. If they do, why the hell not try to talk them out of it???? Fine, say they're crazy and would never listen, but why not exhaust all options before we engage in another long war that costs trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives? You guys don't ever seem to consider diplomacy for a second. I've got news for you - it tends to be more effective in inducing cooperation and fostering friendship than threats, sanctions, bombs, and bullets... And it's a hell of a lot less expensive.

you sound like a very auspicious person, let me tell you that attacks on someones political beliefs doesn't justify your point, they make you seem ignorant and silly. what you don't understand is that common sense is a myth. If common sense was true then everyone would understand what you and i know about iran.

Of course attacks on someone's political beliefs justify my point, provided I defend the attacks with facts and/or logic. I didn't simply say "the neoconservative position on Iran makes no sense." I defended my position. Now by common sense I mean to say that to try diplomacy before using threats, sanctions, and bombs is something that can be concluded based on simple logic alone, no facts necessary. I'm not saying diplomatic talks with Iran's government would necessarily be successful, just that if they really did pose a threat to us - if they really do want to nuke our cities and kill us all - talking to them and offering peace to them should at least be tried first. We should remember the Founding Fathers' advice on dealing with foreign countries.

I don't get how anyone could deny this. We have nothing to lose by trying diplomacy and much to gain. That is, assuming avoiding war would be something gained. Considering war is damn expensive, both in terms of money and human life, I'd say avoiding it should be a priority and we should exhaust all options first. The neocons, however, never saw a war they didn't like, so I suppose for most of them avoiding war would not be a positive.

By the way, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta admitted this month on CNN that Iran is not currently working to develop nuclear weapons. There is really no good case for pre-emptive war against Iran.
oreostar
Posts: 55
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1/21/2012 4:20:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
i feel that the us should worry only about the us, iran has to find its way out of this poo hole that we dug for them. war should only be declared if the "public" votes for war. politically i feel the congress is corrupted, there was a time when the congress made decisions for the people..not the dirty business that corrupt country like iran. what the us needs to do is forget about them middle east as a whole and apologize for their faults. the us need to educate there people on why cuba hates, why south america is corrupted with illegal business , basically why half the world hates. the us needs to stop blaming other countrys/people/anybody, start taking responsibility for ourselves and start respecting the world!! america says its the world police and if you look at history they proved they suck at it
UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
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1/21/2012 4:28:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Personally, I think that Iran has had some incredibly bad experiences with the US. They control a good bit of our allies' oil plus they have nuclear weapon ambitions. Iran is one of the dominant political powers in their area, and have a big ability to churn waters. I think that reopening diplomatic channels will start to ease tensions and help things decompress in the mideast.

Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
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1/21/2012 4:28:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/21/2012 3:13:21 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I doubt the US could ever truly be friends with Iran as long as they have the same regime. However, they should at least try to have discussion and try to come to some negotiation. Also, the Iranian people themselves aren't crazy, just the regime.

This.
oreostar
Posts: 55
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1/21/2012 4:34:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
what don't you understand they us doesn't need to discuss @#%, they need to protect themselves and apologize to iran.. irans not the problem.. the us is!!
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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1/21/2012 5:40:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/21/2012 4:34:46 PM, oreostar wrote:
what don't you understand they us doesn't need to discuss @#%, they need to protect themselves and apologize to iran.. irans not the problem.. the us is!!

So we need to apologize to Iran for killing 3000+ people and threatening to destroy us??

Next.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
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1/21/2012 5:42:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/21/2012 5:40:08 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/21/2012 4:34:46 PM, oreostar wrote:
what don't you understand they us doesn't need to discuss @#%, they need to protect themselves and apologize to iran.. irans not the problem.. the us is!!

So we need to apologize to Iran for killing 3000+ people and threatening to destroy us??

Next.

So we don't have to apologize for overthrowing a democratic government and instituting an autocracy?
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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1/21/2012 5:44:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/21/2012 4:34:46 PM, oreostar wrote:
what don't you understand they us doesn't need to discuss @#%, they need to protect themselves and apologize to iran.. irans not the problem.. the us is!!

Of course we should be having discussions with them. We should be restoring diplomatic relations and opening ourselves up to trade. Obviously we don't need an "entangling alliance" with them and I think "friendship" might be going too far, but we should certainly be talking with them to ease the tension... As I said before, it can't hurt, but it can certainly help.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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1/21/2012 5:47:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/21/2012 5:42:42 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 1/21/2012 5:40:08 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/21/2012 4:34:46 PM, oreostar wrote:
what don't you understand they us doesn't need to discuss @#%, they need to protect themselves and apologize to iran.. irans not the problem.. the us is!!

So we need to apologize to Iran for killing 3000+ people and threatening to destroy us??

Next.

So we don't have to apologize for overthrowing a democratic government and instituting an autocracy?

Democratic government????

http://rlv.zcache.com...
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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1/21/2012 5:48:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/21/2012 5:42:42 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 1/21/2012 5:40:08 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/21/2012 4:34:46 PM, oreostar wrote:
what don't you understand they us doesn't need to discuss @#%, they need to protect themselves and apologize to iran.. irans not the problem.. the us is!!

So we need to apologize to Iran for killing 3000+ people and threatening to destroy us??

Next.

So we don't have to apologize for overthrowing a democratic government and instituting an autocracy?

THIS. But, LK, when did Iran kill 3000+ people and threaten to destroy us? What are you talking about? And yeah, even so, we overthrew their democratic government in 1953 (hence the Iran hostage crisis in 1979 - WE provoked it in the first place). Sorry, but the neocon/fox news narrative that U.S. can do no wrong in foreign policy is a lie. We've been meddling in the middle east for decades now... So though violence is never justified, much of the middle eastern hatred against us is essentially our own fault.
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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1/21/2012 5:50:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/21/2012 5:47:47 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/21/2012 5:42:42 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 1/21/2012 5:40:08 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/21/2012 4:34:46 PM, oreostar wrote:
what don't you understand they us doesn't need to discuss @#%, they need to protect themselves and apologize to iran.. irans not the problem.. the us is!!

So we need to apologize to Iran for killing 3000+ people and threatening to destroy us??

Next.

So we don't have to apologize for overthrowing a democratic government and instituting an autocracy?

Democratic government????

http://rlv.zcache.com...

Um, his point is that they elected a certain government. It was the choice of the people. We, through the CIA, overturned it and installed the Shah in 1953. No offense dude but you clearly don't know your history for sh!t.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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1/21/2012 5:51:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/21/2012 5:48:40 PM, jat93 wrote:
At 1/21/2012 5:42:42 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 1/21/2012 5:40:08 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/21/2012 4:34:46 PM, oreostar wrote:
what don't you understand they us doesn't need to discuss @#%, they need to protect themselves and apologize to iran.. irans not the problem.. the us is!!

So we need to apologize to Iran for killing 3000+ people and threatening to destroy us??

Next.

So we don't have to apologize for overthrowing a democratic government and instituting an autocracy?

THIS. But, LK, when did Iran kill 3000+ people and threaten to destroy us?
9/11, Ahmadinejad's threats, etc...
What are you talking about? And yeah, even so, we overthrew their democratic government in 1953 (hence the Iran hostage crisis in 1979 - WE provoked it in the first place).
Democratically elected =/= Democratic government
Sorry, but the neocon/fox news narrative that U.S. can do no wrong in foreign policy is a lie. We've been meddling in the middle east for decades now... So though violence is never justified, much of the middle eastern hatred against us is essentially our own fault.

We have been meddling there because of the crazy Jihadists that are threatening to destroy us.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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1/21/2012 5:52:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/21/2012 5:48:40 PM, jat93 wrote:
At 1/21/2012 5:42:42 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 1/21/2012 5:40:08 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/21/2012 4:34:46 PM, oreostar wrote:
what don't you understand they us doesn't need to discuss @#%, they need to protect themselves and apologize to iran.. irans not the problem.. the us is!!

So we need to apologize to Iran for killing 3000+ people and threatening to destroy us??

Next.

So we don't have to apologize for overthrowing a democratic government and instituting an autocracy?

THIS. But, LK, when did Iran kill 3000+ people and threaten to destroy us? What are you talking about? And yeah, even so, we overthrew their democratic government in 1953 (hence the Iran hostage crisis in 1979 - WE provoked it in the first place). Sorry, but the neocon/fox news narrative that U.S. can do no wrong in foreign policy is a lie. We've been meddling in the middle east for decades now... So though violence is never justified unless in self-defense, much of the middle eastern hatred against us is essentially our own fault.

Sorry, fixed.
UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
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1/21/2012 5:54:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/21/2012 5:47:47 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/21/2012 5:42:42 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 1/21/2012 5:40:08 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/21/2012 4:34:46 PM, oreostar wrote:
what don't you understand they us doesn't need to discuss @#%, they need to protect themselves and apologize to iran.. irans not the problem.. the us is!!

So we need to apologize to Iran for killing 3000+ people and threatening to destroy us??

Next.

So we don't have to apologize for overthrowing a democratic government and instituting an autocracy?

Democratic government????

Yes. To quote Wikipedia: "In 1951, after the assassination of prime minister Ali Razmara, Dr. Mohammad Mosaddegh was elected prime minister by a parliamentary vote which was then ratified by the Shah. As prime minister, Mosaddegh became enormously popular in Iran after he nationalized Iran's petroleum industry and oil reserves. In response, the British government, headed by Winston Churchill, embargoed Iranian oil and successfully enlisted the United States to join in a plot to depose the democratically elected government of Mosaddegh. In 1953 US President Dwight D. Eisenhower authorized Operation Ajax. The operation was successful, and Mosaddegh was arrested on 19 August 1953. The coup was the first time the US had openly overthrown an elected, civilian government.[111]"

http://rlv.zcache.com...

No.
UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
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1/21/2012 5:58:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/21/2012 5:51:40 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/21/2012 5:48:40 PM, jat93 wrote:
At 1/21/2012 5:42:42 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 1/21/2012 5:40:08 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 1/21/2012 4:34:46 PM, oreostar wrote:
what don't you understand they us doesn't need to discuss @#%, they need to protect themselves and apologize to iran.. irans not the problem.. the us is!!

So we need to apologize to Iran for killing 3000+ people and threatening to destroy us??

Next.

So we don't have to apologize for overthrowing a democratic government and instituting an autocracy?

THIS. But, LK, when did Iran kill 3000+ people and threaten to destroy us?

9/11, Ahmadinejad's threats, etc...

9/11 was Al Qaida, not Iran. And Ahmadinejad's crazy.

What are you talking about? And yeah, even so, we overthrew their democratic government in 1953 (hence the Iran hostage crisis in 1979 - WE provoked it in the first place).

Democratically elected =/= Democratic government

Though it could morph into that (Mubarak in Egypt), the Prime Minister in Iran was there 2 years. Certainly not time to become a Mubarak.

Sorry, but the neocon/fox news narrative that U.S. can do no wrong in foreign policy is a lie. We've been meddling in the middle east for decades now... So though violence is never justified, much of the middle eastern hatred against us is essentially our own fault.

We have been meddling there because of the crazy Jihadists that are threatening to destroy us.

Now. THEN, in the 50's, they had other problems.