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Conservatives are NEVER for small government

000ike
Posts: 11,196
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1/23/2012 7:25:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Conservatism has never been for small government, it has simply been a slogan that never actually took form in policy. Lets take a critical look at your hero, Ronald Reagan.

At the start of Reagan's term, he cut taxes, he reduced government spending, he cut federal programs for the homeless and needy, and all the other lifeless and inhumane policies championed by the supposedly "fiscal" right. However, guess what he did the second his policies plunged the nation into a Recession - Massive economic interventionism! Keynesian-like spending and control by the fed, upsurge in taxes (the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981). He raised interest rates to stop inflation, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation spent a whopping $870 million to keep Banks from failing.

Now, lets look at Nixon. In the wake of recession, Nixon cut government spending and had the Federal Reserve Board raise interest rates to ameliorate the situation. As a result, we got Stagflation. Plants shut down, industries closed, and eventually when all his attempts failed miserably, he announced, believe it or not, "I am now a Keynesian!" In a desperate attempt to save the economy he resorted to deficit spending and then issued a 90-day freeze on wages, prices, and rent. Guess what happened right after he did that,...oh would you look at that, the economy improved. When he got reelected, he stopped the governmental imposition and inflation shot up again.

Conservative presidents always run under economic non-interventionism, but its all a lie. When something goes wrong, when the economy tanks, you go running back to Keynes to make it all better again. Then in the next election cycle, they run under "small government" AGAIN, and the whole country falls for it like they don't remember what just happened.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DetectableNinja
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1/23/2012 7:32:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
"American conservatives are NEVER for small government."

Fix'd.

Anyway: the problem that these presidents had was that they didn't stick it out through their plans.

Margaret Thatcher is a prime example. Her conservative economics actually led to a stable and strong economy in the end, AFTER a deep recession due to the reform.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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1/23/2012 7:38:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 7:32:23 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
"American politicians are NEVER for small government."

Fix'd.

Fix'd.
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Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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1/23/2012 7:40:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 7:25:15 PM, 000ike wrote:
Conservatism has never been for small government, it has simply been a slogan that never actually took form in policy. Lets take a critical look at your hero, Ronald Reagan.

At the start of Reagan's term, he cut taxes, he reduced government spending, he cut federal programs for the homeless and needy, and all the other lifeless and inhumane policies championed by the supposedly "fiscal" right. However, guess what he did the second his policies plunged the nation into a Recession - Massive economic interventionism! Keynesian-like spending and control by the fed, upsurge in taxes (the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981). He raised interest rates to stop inflation, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation spent a whopping $870 million to keep Banks from failing.

Now, lets look at Nixon. In the wake of recession, Nixon cut government spending and had the Federal Reserve Board raise interest rates to ameliorate the situation. As a result, we got Stagflation. Plants shut down, industries closed, and eventually when all his attempts failed miserably, he announced, believe it or not, "I am now a Keynesian!" In a desperate attempt to save the economy he resorted to deficit spending and then issued a 90-day freeze on wages, prices, and rent. Guess what happened right after he did that,...oh would you look at that, the economy improved. When he got reelected, he stopped the governmental imposition and inflation shot up again.

Conservative presidents always run under economic non-interventionism, but its all a lie. When something goes wrong, when the economy tanks, you go running back to Keynes to make it all better again. Then in the next election cycle, they run under "small government" AGAIN, and the whole country falls for it like they don't remember what just happened.

I see the disease of liberalism has now affected your sense of reason.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/23/2012 7:40:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 7:40:04 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:25:15 PM, 000ike wrote:
Conservatism has never been for small government, it has simply been a slogan that never actually took form in policy. Lets take a critical look at your hero, Ronald Reagan.

At the start of Reagan's term, he cut taxes, he reduced government spending, he cut federal programs for the homeless and needy, and all the other lifeless and inhumane policies championed by the supposedly "fiscal" right. However, guess what he did the second his policies plunged the nation into a Recession - Massive economic interventionism! Keynesian-like spending and control by the fed, upsurge in taxes (the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981). He raised interest rates to stop inflation, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation spent a whopping $870 million to keep Banks from failing.

Now, lets look at Nixon. In the wake of recession, Nixon cut government spending and had the Federal Reserve Board raise interest rates to ameliorate the situation. As a result, we got Stagflation. Plants shut down, industries closed, and eventually when all his attempts failed miserably, he announced, believe it or not, "I am now a Keynesian!" In a desperate attempt to save the economy he resorted to deficit spending and then issued a 90-day freeze on wages, prices, and rent. Guess what happened right after he did that,...oh would you look at that, the economy improved. When he got reelected, he stopped the governmental imposition and inflation shot up again.

Conservative presidents always run under economic non-interventionism, but its all a lie. When something goes wrong, when the economy tanks, you go running back to Keynes to make it all better again. Then in the next election cycle, they run under "small government" AGAIN, and the whole country falls for it like they don't remember what just happened.

I see the disease of liberalism has now affected your sense of reason.

Ad hominem attacks are not arguments.
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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1/23/2012 7:41:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 7:40:45 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:04 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:25:15 PM, 000ike wrote:
Conservatism has never been for small government, it has simply been a slogan that never actually took form in policy. Lets take a critical look at your hero, Ronald Reagan.

At the start of Reagan's term, he cut taxes, he reduced government spending, he cut federal programs for the homeless and needy, and all the other lifeless and inhumane policies championed by the supposedly "fiscal" right. However, guess what he did the second his policies plunged the nation into a Recession - Massive economic interventionism! Keynesian-like spending and control by the fed, upsurge in taxes (the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981). He raised interest rates to stop inflation, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation spent a whopping $870 million to keep Banks from failing.

Now, lets look at Nixon. In the wake of recession, Nixon cut government spending and had the Federal Reserve Board raise interest rates to ameliorate the situation. As a result, we got Stagflation. Plants shut down, industries closed, and eventually when all his attempts failed miserably, he announced, believe it or not, "I am now a Keynesian!" In a desperate attempt to save the economy he resorted to deficit spending and then issued a 90-day freeze on wages, prices, and rent. Guess what happened right after he did that,...oh would you look at that, the economy improved. When he got reelected, he stopped the governmental imposition and inflation shot up again.

Conservative presidents always run under economic non-interventionism, but its all a lie. When something goes wrong, when the economy tanks, you go running back to Keynes to make it all better again. Then in the next election cycle, they run under "small government" AGAIN, and the whole country falls for it like they don't remember what just happened.

I see the disease of liberalism has now affected your sense of reason.

Ad hominem attacks are not arguments.

Well then what is Ike trying to say? He is obviously wrong.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/23/2012 7:43:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 7:41:39 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:45 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:04 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:25:15 PM, 000ike wrote:
Conservatism has never been for small government, it has simply been a slogan that never actually took form in policy. Lets take a critical look at your hero, Ronald Reagan.

At the start of Reagan's term, he cut taxes, he reduced government spending, he cut federal programs for the homeless and needy, and all the other lifeless and inhumane policies championed by the supposedly "fiscal" right. However, guess what he did the second his policies plunged the nation into a Recession - Massive economic interventionism! Keynesian-like spending and control by the fed, upsurge in taxes (the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981). He raised interest rates to stop inflation, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation spent a whopping $870 million to keep Banks from failing.

Now, lets look at Nixon. In the wake of recession, Nixon cut government spending and had the Federal Reserve Board raise interest rates to ameliorate the situation. As a result, we got Stagflation. Plants shut down, industries closed, and eventually when all his attempts failed miserably, he announced, believe it or not, "I am now a Keynesian!" In a desperate attempt to save the economy he resorted to deficit spending and then issued a 90-day freeze on wages, prices, and rent. Guess what happened right after he did that,...oh would you look at that, the economy improved. When he got reelected, he stopped the governmental imposition and inflation shot up again.

Conservative presidents always run under economic non-interventionism, but its all a lie. When something goes wrong, when the economy tanks, you go running back to Keynes to make it all better again. Then in the next election cycle, they run under "small government" AGAIN, and the whole country falls for it like they don't remember what just happened.

I see the disease of liberalism has now affected your sense of reason.

Ad hominem attacks are not arguments.

Well then what is Ike trying to say? He is obviously wrong.

Really? Do you have any reasoning as to why his analysis is flawed, or is it just "he is a diseased liberal, so he must be wrong!"?
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/23/2012 7:44:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Anyways, a respectable member of the site (DetectableNinja) agreed with him, and a conservative jerk (darkkermit) did as well.
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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1/23/2012 7:45:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 7:43:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:41:39 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:45 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:04 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:25:15 PM, 000ike wrote:
Conservatism has never been for small government, it has simply been a slogan that never actually took form in policy. Lets take a critical look at your hero, Ronald Reagan.

At the start of Reagan's term, he cut taxes, he reduced government spending, he cut federal programs for the homeless and needy, and all the other lifeless and inhumane policies championed by the supposedly "fiscal" right. However, guess what he did the second his policies plunged the nation into a Recession - Massive economic interventionism! Keynesian-like spending and control by the fed, upsurge in taxes (the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981). He raised interest rates to stop inflation, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation spent a whopping $870 million to keep Banks from failing.

Now, lets look at Nixon. In the wake of recession, Nixon cut government spending and had the Federal Reserve Board raise interest rates to ameliorate the situation. As a result, we got Stagflation. Plants shut down, industries closed, and eventually when all his attempts failed miserably, he announced, believe it or not, "I am now a Keynesian!" In a desperate attempt to save the economy he resorted to deficit spending and then issued a 90-day freeze on wages, prices, and rent. Guess what happened right after he did that,...oh would you look at that, the economy improved. When he got reelected, he stopped the governmental imposition and inflation shot up again.

Conservative presidents always run under economic non-interventionism, but its all a lie. When something goes wrong, when the economy tanks, you go running back to Keynes to make it all better again. Then in the next election cycle, they run under "small government" AGAIN, and the whole country falls for it like they don't remember what just happened.

I see the disease of liberalism has now affected your sense of reason.

Ad hominem attacks are not arguments.

Well then what is Ike trying to say? He is obviously wrong.

Really? Do you have any reasoning as to why his analysis is flawed, or is it just "he is a diseased liberal, so he must be wrong!"?

Let's see. Reagan is being blamed for Carter's mistakes. And Nixon is being blamed for JFK's and LBJ's mistakes. Ike is usiong flawed logic.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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1/23/2012 7:47:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 7:44:44 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Anyways, a respectable member of the site (DetectableNinja) agreed with him, and a conservative jerk (darkkermit) did as well.

I DID disagree with him on the anti-small government subtext, but on the whole, his message is correct.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/23/2012 7:51:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 7:45:38 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:43:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:41:39 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:45 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:04 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:25:15 PM, 000ike wrote:
Conservatism has never been for small government, it has simply been a slogan that never actually took form in policy. Lets take a critical look at your hero, Ronald Reagan.

At the start of Reagan's term, he cut taxes, he reduced government spending, he cut federal programs for the homeless and needy, and all the other lifeless and inhumane policies championed by the supposedly "fiscal" right. However, guess what he did the second his policies plunged the nation into a Recession - Massive economic interventionism! Keynesian-like spending and control by the fed, upsurge in taxes (the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981). He raised interest rates to stop inflation, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation spent a whopping $870 million to keep Banks from failing.

Now, lets look at Nixon. In the wake of recession, Nixon cut government spending and had the Federal Reserve Board raise interest rates to ameliorate the situation. As a result, we got Stagflation. Plants shut down, industries closed, and eventually when all his attempts failed miserably, he announced, believe it or not, "I am now a Keynesian!" In a desperate attempt to save the economy he resorted to deficit spending and then issued a 90-day freeze on wages, prices, and rent. Guess what happened right after he did that,...oh would you look at that, the economy improved. When he got reelected, he stopped the governmental imposition and inflation shot up again.

Conservative presidents always run under economic non-interventionism, but its all a lie. When something goes wrong, when the economy tanks, you go running back to Keynes to make it all better again. Then in the next election cycle, they run under "small government" AGAIN, and the whole country falls for it like they don't remember what just happened.

I see the disease of liberalism has now affected your sense of reason.

Ad hominem attacks are not arguments.

Well then what is Ike trying to say? He is obviously wrong.

Really? Do you have any reasoning as to why his analysis is flawed, or is it just "he is a diseased liberal, so he must be wrong!"?

Let's see. Reagan is being blamed for Carter's mistakes. And Nixon is being blamed for JFK's and LBJ's mistakes. Ike is usiong flawed logic.

Proof? Reagen tripled the size of the national debt and increased governmental spending.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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1/23/2012 7:51:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 7:47:01 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:44:44 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Anyways, a respectable member of the site (DetectableNinja) agreed with him, and a conservative jerk (darkkermit) did as well.

I DID disagree with him on the anti-small government subtext, but on the whole, his message is correct.

same. I don't believe any of the presidents actually "cut" government in the traditional sense. I define a cut as decreasing spending. When a politician says he's "cutting" spending, it really means the amount of increased spending is decreased. Yea....
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Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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1/23/2012 7:52:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://en.wikipedia.org...
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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1/23/2012 7:53:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 7:51:38 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:45:38 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:43:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:41:39 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:45 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:04 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:25:15 PM, 000ike wrote:
Conservatism has never been for small government, it has simply been a slogan that never actually took form in policy. Lets take a critical look at your hero, Ronald Reagan.

At the start of Reagan's term, he cut taxes, he reduced government spending, he cut federal programs for the homeless and needy, and all the other lifeless and inhumane policies championed by the supposedly "fiscal" right. However, guess what he did the second his policies plunged the nation into a Recession - Massive economic interventionism! Keynesian-like spending and control by the fed, upsurge in taxes (the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981). He raised interest rates to stop inflation, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation spent a whopping $870 million to keep Banks from failing.

Now, lets look at Nixon. In the wake of recession, Nixon cut government spending and had the Federal Reserve Board raise interest rates to ameliorate the situation. As a result, we got Stagflation. Plants shut down, industries closed, and eventually when all his attempts failed miserably, he announced, believe it or not, "I am now a Keynesian!" In a desperate attempt to save the economy he resorted to deficit spending and then issued a 90-day freeze on wages, prices, and rent. Guess what happened right after he did that,...oh would you look at that, the economy improved. When he got reelected, he stopped the governmental imposition and inflation shot up again.

Conservative presidents always run under economic non-interventionism, but its all a lie. When something goes wrong, when the economy tanks, you go running back to Keynes to make it all better again. Then in the next election cycle, they run under "small government" AGAIN, and the whole country falls for it like they don't remember what just happened.

I see the disease of liberalism has now affected your sense of reason.

Ad hominem attacks are not arguments.

Well then what is Ike trying to say? He is obviously wrong.

Really? Do you have any reasoning as to why his analysis is flawed, or is it just "he is a diseased liberal, so he must be wrong!"?

Let's see. Reagan is being blamed for Carter's mistakes. And Nixon is being blamed for JFK's and LBJ's mistakes. Ike is usiong flawed logic.

Proof? Reagen tripled the size of the national debt and increased governmental spending.

Carter, Carter, Carter.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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1/23/2012 7:54:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 7:51:38 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:45:38 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:43:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:41:39 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:45 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:04 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:25:15 PM, 000ike wrote:
Conservatism has never been for small government, it has simply been a slogan that never actually took form in policy. Lets take a critical look at your hero, Ronald Reagan.

At the start of Reagan's term, he cut taxes, he reduced government spending, he cut federal programs for the homeless and needy, and all the other lifeless and inhumane policies championed by the supposedly "fiscal" right. However, guess what he did the second his policies plunged the nation into a Recession - Massive economic interventionism! Keynesian-like spending and control by the fed, upsurge in taxes (the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981). He raised interest rates to stop inflation, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation spent a whopping $870 million to keep Banks from failing.

Now, lets look at Nixon. In the wake of recession, Nixon cut government spending and had the Federal Reserve Board raise interest rates to ameliorate the situation. As a result, we got Stagflation. Plants shut down, industries closed, and eventually when all his attempts failed miserably, he announced, believe it or not, "I am now a Keynesian!" In a desperate attempt to save the economy he resorted to deficit spending and then issued a 90-day freeze on wages, prices, and rent. Guess what happened right after he did that,...oh would you look at that, the economy improved. When he got reelected, he stopped the governmental imposition and inflation shot up again.

Conservative presidents always run under economic non-interventionism, but its all a lie. When something goes wrong, when the economy tanks, you go running back to Keynes to make it all better again. Then in the next election cycle, they run under "small government" AGAIN, and the whole country falls for it like they don't remember what just happened.

I see the disease of liberalism has now affected your sense of reason.

Ad hominem attacks are not arguments.

Well then what is Ike trying to say? He is obviously wrong.

Really? Do you have any reasoning as to why his analysis is flawed, or is it just "he is a diseased liberal, so he must be wrong!"?

Let's see. Reagan is being blamed for Carter's mistakes. And Nixon is being blamed for JFK's and LBJ's mistakes. Ike is usiong flawed logic.

Proof? Reagen tripled the size of the national debt and increased governmental spending.

well its a difficult task to figure out what causes a recession. Just because a president happens to reside over a recession does not mean he caused it.

Also, as Dninja stated earlier, recessions aren't necessarily all bad, but a naturally re-correcting mechanism of the market.
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DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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1/23/2012 7:57:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 7:54:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:51:38 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:45:38 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:43:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:41:39 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:45 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:04 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:25:15 PM, 000ike wrote:
Conservatism has never been for small government, it has simply been a slogan that never actually took form in policy. Lets take a critical look at your hero, Ronald Reagan.

At the start of Reagan's term, he cut taxes, he reduced government spending, he cut federal programs for the homeless and needy, and all the other lifeless and inhumane policies championed by the supposedly "fiscal" right. However, guess what he did the second his policies plunged the nation into a Recession - Massive economic interventionism! Keynesian-like spending and control by the fed, upsurge in taxes (the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981). He raised interest rates to stop inflation, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation spent a whopping $870 million to keep Banks from failing.

Now, lets look at Nixon. In the wake of recession, Nixon cut government spending and had the Federal Reserve Board raise interest rates to ameliorate the situation. As a result, we got Stagflation. Plants shut down, industries closed, and eventually when all his attempts failed miserably, he announced, believe it or not, "I am now a Keynesian!" In a desperate attempt to save the economy he resorted to deficit spending and then issued a 90-day freeze on wages, prices, and rent. Guess what happened right after he did that,...oh would you look at that, the economy improved. When he got reelected, he stopped the governmental imposition and inflation shot up again.

Conservative presidents always run under economic non-interventionism, but its all a lie. When something goes wrong, when the economy tanks, you go running back to Keynes to make it all better again. Then in the next election cycle, they run under "small government" AGAIN, and the whole country falls for it like they don't remember what just happened.

I see the disease of liberalism has now affected your sense of reason.

Ad hominem attacks are not arguments.

Well then what is Ike trying to say? He is obviously wrong.

Really? Do you have any reasoning as to why his analysis is flawed, or is it just "he is a diseased liberal, so he must be wrong!"?

Let's see. Reagan is being blamed for Carter's mistakes. And Nixon is being blamed for JFK's and LBJ's mistakes. Ike is usiong flawed logic.

Proof? Reagen tripled the size of the national debt and increased governmental spending.

well its a difficult task to figure out what causes a recession. Just because a president happens to reside over a recession does not mean he caused it.

Also, as Dninja stated earlier, recessions aren't necessarily all bad, but a naturally re-correcting mechanism of the market.

Exactly. It's as though people expect major changes to have only positive effects in the short term.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
darkkermit
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1/23/2012 7:59:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 7:44:44 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Anyways, a respectable member of the site (DetectableNinja) agreed with him, and a conservative jerk (darkkermit) did as well.

How did you come to the conclusion that I was a conservative since my profile states i'm moderate? Also, based on your definition of conservative, Dninja is also conservative.
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DetectableNinja
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1/23/2012 8:02:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 7:59:09 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:44:44 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Anyways, a respectable member of the site (DetectableNinja) agreed with him, and a conservative jerk (darkkermit) did as well.

How did you come to the conclusion that I was a conservative since my profile states i'm moderate? Also, based on your definition of conservative, Dninja is also conservative.

I dunno. For some reason, certain people on DDO like to lump any dissenters and libertarians into the "conservative" moniker.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
OberHerr
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1/23/2012 8:05:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 8:02:38 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:59:09 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:44:44 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Anyways, a respectable member of the site (DetectableNinja) agreed with him, and a conservative jerk (darkkermit) did as well.

How did you come to the conclusion that I was a conservative since my profile states i'm moderate? Also, based on your definition of conservative, Dninja is also conservative.

I dunno. For some reason, certain people on DDO like to lump any dissenters and libertarians into the "conservative" moniker.

Hey, at least your not lumped into the liberal moniker.
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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/23/2012 8:06:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 7:54:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:51:38 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:45:38 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:43:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:41:39 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:45 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:04 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:25:15 PM, 000ike wrote:
Conservatism has never been for small government, it has simply been a slogan that never actually took form in policy. Lets take a critical look at your hero, Ronald Reagan.

At the start of Reagan's term, he cut taxes, he reduced government spending, he cut federal programs for the homeless and needy, and all the other lifeless and inhumane policies championed by the supposedly "fiscal" right. However, guess what he did the second his policies plunged the nation into a Recession - Massive economic interventionism! Keynesian-like spending and control by the fed, upsurge in taxes (the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981). He raised interest rates to stop inflation, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation spent a whopping $870 million to keep Banks from failing.

Now, lets look at Nixon. In the wake of recession, Nixon cut government spending and had the Federal Reserve Board raise interest rates to ameliorate the situation. As a result, we got Stagflation. Plants shut down, industries closed, and eventually when all his attempts failed miserably, he announced, believe it or not, "I am now a Keynesian!" In a desperate attempt to save the economy he resorted to deficit spending and then issued a 90-day freeze on wages, prices, and rent. Guess what happened right after he did that,...oh would you look at that, the economy improved. When he got reelected, he stopped the governmental imposition and inflation shot up again.

Conservative presidents always run under economic non-interventionism, but its all a lie. When something goes wrong, when the economy tanks, you go running back to Keynes to make it all better again. Then in the next election cycle, they run under "small government" AGAIN, and the whole country falls for it like they don't remember what just happened.

I see the disease of liberalism has now affected your sense of reason.

Ad hominem attacks are not arguments.

Well then what is Ike trying to say? He is obviously wrong.

Really? Do you have any reasoning as to why his analysis is flawed, or is it just "he is a diseased liberal, so he must be wrong!"?

Let's see. Reagan is being blamed for Carter's mistakes. And Nixon is being blamed for JFK's and LBJ's mistakes. Ike is usiong flawed logic.

Proof? Reagen tripled the size of the national debt and increased governmental spending.

well its a difficult task to figure out what causes a recession. Just because a president happens to reside over a recession does not mean he caused it.

Also, as Dninja stated earlier, recessions aren't necessarily all bad, but a naturally re-correcting mechanism of the market.

I am assuming that this standard only applies to Republican presidents, correct? Because I doubt anybody will allow this to apply to Obama.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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1/23/2012 8:07:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 8:02:38 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:59:09 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:44:44 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Anyways, a respectable member of the site (DetectableNinja) agreed with him, and a conservative jerk (darkkermit) did as well.

How did you come to the conclusion that I was a conservative since my profile states i'm moderate? Also, based on your definition of conservative, Dninja is also conservative.

I dunno. For some reason, certain people on DDO like to lump any dissenters and libertarians into the "conservative" moniker.

To be fair, I'm libertarian-leaning, but I don't necessarily fit as a true libertarian since I am for welfare, do not believe in property rights (they are a good rule of thumb for maxmizing welfare, but not a rule that must be applied rigorously), and support some Keynesian intervention.

I wouldn't classify myself as a conservative either since I'm very socially liberal on most issues.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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1/23/2012 8:08:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 8:06:58 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:54:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:51:38 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:45:38 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:43:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:41:39 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:45 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:04 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:25:15 PM, 000ike wrote:
Conservatism has never been for small government, it has simply been a slogan that never actually took form in policy. Lets take a critical look at your hero, Ronald Reagan.

At the start of Reagan's term, he cut taxes, he reduced government spending, he cut federal programs for the homeless and needy, and all the other lifeless and inhumane policies championed by the supposedly "fiscal" right. However, guess what he did the second his policies plunged the nation into a Recession - Massive economic interventionism! Keynesian-like spending and control by the fed, upsurge in taxes (the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981). He raised interest rates to stop inflation, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation spent a whopping $870 million to keep Banks from failing.

Now, lets look at Nixon. In the wake of recession, Nixon cut government spending and had the Federal Reserve Board raise interest rates to ameliorate the situation. As a result, we got Stagflation. Plants shut down, industries closed, and eventually when all his attempts failed miserably, he announced, believe it or not, "I am now a Keynesian!" In a desperate attempt to save the economy he resorted to deficit spending and then issued a 90-day freeze on wages, prices, and rent. Guess what happened right after he did that,...oh would you look at that, the economy improved. When he got reelected, he stopped the governmental imposition and inflation shot up again.

Conservative presidents always run under economic non-interventionism, but its all a lie. When something goes wrong, when the economy tanks, you go running back to Keynes to make it all better again. Then in the next election cycle, they run under "small government" AGAIN, and the whole country falls for it like they don't remember what just happened.

I see the disease of liberalism has now affected your sense of reason.

Ad hominem attacks are not arguments.

Well then what is Ike trying to say? He is obviously wrong.

Really? Do you have any reasoning as to why his analysis is flawed, or is it just "he is a diseased liberal, so he must be wrong!"?

Let's see. Reagan is being blamed for Carter's mistakes. And Nixon is being blamed for JFK's and LBJ's mistakes. Ike is usiong flawed logic.

Proof? Reagen tripled the size of the national debt and increased governmental spending.

well its a difficult task to figure out what causes a recession. Just because a president happens to reside over a recession does not mean he caused it.

Also, as Dninja stated earlier, recessions aren't necessarily all bad, but a naturally re-correcting mechanism of the market.

I am assuming that this standard only applies to Republican presidents, correct? Because I doubt anybody will allow this to apply to Obama.

Well you are trying to use a double standard on us Conservatives, aren't you. Like I said earlier, most of the recessions during Republicans' terms was due to the previous Democratic President's mistakes.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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1/23/2012 8:13:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 8:07:47 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/23/2012 8:02:38 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:59:09 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:44:44 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Anyways, a respectable member of the site (DetectableNinja) agreed with him, and a conservative jerk (darkkermit) did as well.

How did you come to the conclusion that I was a conservative since my profile states i'm moderate? Also, based on your definition of conservative, Dninja is also conservative.

I dunno. For some reason, certain people on DDO like to lump any dissenters and libertarians into the "conservative" moniker.

To be fair, I'm libertarian-leaning, but I don't necessarily fit as a true libertarian since I am for welfare, do not believe in property rights (they are a good rule of thumb for maxmizing welfare, but not a rule that must be applied rigorously), and support some Keynesian intervention.

I wouldn't classify myself as a conservative either since I'm very socially liberal on most issues.

Same. I identify as libertarian because I believe that welfare and intervention ARE necessary, but to the bare minimum. I can be described as a left leaning libertarian.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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1/23/2012 8:15:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 8:06:58 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:54:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:51:38 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:45:38 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:43:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:41:39 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:45 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:04 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:25:15 PM, 000ike wrote:
Conservatism has never been for small government, it has simply been a slogan that never actually took form in policy. Lets take a critical look at your hero, Ronald Reagan.

At the start of Reagan's term, he cut taxes, he reduced government spending, he cut federal programs for the homeless and needy, and all the other lifeless and inhumane policies championed by the supposedly "fiscal" right. However, guess what he did the second his policies plunged the nation into a Recession - Massive economic interventionism! Keynesian-like spending and control by the fed, upsurge in taxes (the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981). He raised interest rates to stop inflation, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation spent a whopping $870 million to keep Banks from failing.

Now, lets look at Nixon. In the wake of recession, Nixon cut government spending and had the Federal Reserve Board raise interest rates to ameliorate the situation. As a result, we got Stagflation. Plants shut down, industries closed, and eventually when all his attempts failed miserably, he announced, believe it or not, "I am now a Keynesian!" In a desperate attempt to save the economy he resorted to deficit spending and then issued a 90-day freeze on wages, prices, and rent. Guess what happened right after he did that,...oh would you look at that, the economy improved. When he got reelected, he stopped the governmental imposition and inflation shot up again.

Conservative presidents always run under economic non-interventionism, but its all a lie. When something goes wrong, when the economy tanks, you go running back to Keynes to make it all better again. Then in the next election cycle, they run under "small government" AGAIN, and the whole country falls for it like they don't remember what just happened.

I see the disease of liberalism has now affected your sense of reason.

Ad hominem attacks are not arguments.

Well then what is Ike trying to say? He is obviously wrong.

Really? Do you have any reasoning as to why his analysis is flawed, or is it just "he is a diseased liberal, so he must be wrong!"?

Let's see. Reagan is being blamed for Carter's mistakes. And Nixon is being blamed for JFK's and LBJ's mistakes. Ike is usiong flawed logic.

Proof? Reagen tripled the size of the national debt and increased governmental spending.

well its a difficult task to figure out what causes a recession. Just because a president happens to reside over a recession does not mean he caused it.

Also, as Dninja stated earlier, recessions aren't necessarily all bad, but a naturally re-correcting mechanism of the market.

I am assuming that this standard only applies to Republican presidents, correct? Because I doubt anybody will allow this to apply to Obama.

Well, everyone seems to blame the recession on Bush anyways, so does it matter?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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1/23/2012 8:15:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 8:06:58 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:54:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:51:38 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:45:38 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:43:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:41:39 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:45 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:04 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:25:15 PM, 000ike wrote:
Conservatism has never been for small government, it has simply been a slogan that never actually took form in policy. Lets take a critical look at your hero, Ronald Reagan.

At the start of Reagan's term, he cut taxes, he reduced government spending, he cut federal programs for the homeless and needy, and all the other lifeless and inhumane policies championed by the supposedly "fiscal" right. However, guess what he did the second his policies plunged the nation into a Recession - Massive economic interventionism! Keynesian-like spending and control by the fed, upsurge in taxes (the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981). He raised interest rates to stop inflation, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation spent a whopping $870 million to keep Banks from failing.

Now, lets look at Nixon. In the wake of recession, Nixon cut government spending and had the Federal Reserve Board raise interest rates to ameliorate the situation. As a result, we got Stagflation. Plants shut down, industries closed, and eventually when all his attempts failed miserably, he announced, believe it or not, "I am now a Keynesian!" In a desperate attempt to save the economy he resorted to deficit spending and then issued a 90-day freeze on wages, prices, and rent. Guess what happened right after he did that,...oh would you look at that, the economy improved. When he got reelected, he stopped the governmental imposition and inflation shot up again.

Conservative presidents always run under economic non-interventionism, but its all a lie. When something goes wrong, when the economy tanks, you go running back to Keynes to make it all better again. Then in the next election cycle, they run under "small government" AGAIN, and the whole country falls for it like they don't remember what just happened.

I see the disease of liberalism has now affected your sense of reason.

Ad hominem attacks are not arguments.

Well then what is Ike trying to say? He is obviously wrong.

Really? Do you have any reasoning as to why his analysis is flawed, or is it just "he is a diseased liberal, so he must be wrong!"?

Let's see. Reagan is being blamed for Carter's mistakes. And Nixon is being blamed for JFK's and LBJ's mistakes. Ike is usiong flawed logic.

Proof? Reagen tripled the size of the national debt and increased governmental spending.

well its a difficult task to figure out what causes a recession. Just because a president happens to reside over a recession does not mean he caused it.

Also, as Dninja stated earlier, recessions aren't necessarily all bad, but a naturally re-correcting mechanism of the market.

I am assuming that this standard only applies to Republican presidents, correct? Because I doubt anybody will allow this to apply to Obama.

Obama never caused the recession. He just failed to get us out. My main complaint with him is that he spent all this money on the stimulus and unemployment is still high. By there own acounts, unemployment is higher with the stimulus then without:

http://tinyurl.com...

Also roylatham's debate has some good analysis on him:
http://www.debate.org...
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/23/2012 8:16:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 8:15:17 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/23/2012 8:06:58 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:54:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:51:38 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:45:38 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:43:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:41:39 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:45 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:04 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:25:15 PM, 000ike wrote:
Conservatism has never been for small government, it has simply been a slogan that never actually took form in policy. Lets take a critical look at your hero, Ronald Reagan.

At the start of Reagan's term, he cut taxes, he reduced government spending, he cut federal programs for the homeless and needy, and all the other lifeless and inhumane policies championed by the supposedly "fiscal" right. However, guess what he did the second his policies plunged the nation into a Recession - Massive economic interventionism! Keynesian-like spending and control by the fed, upsurge in taxes (the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981). He raised interest rates to stop inflation, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation spent a whopping $870 million to keep Banks from failing.

Now, lets look at Nixon. In the wake of recession, Nixon cut government spending and had the Federal Reserve Board raise interest rates to ameliorate the situation. As a result, we got Stagflation. Plants shut down, industries closed, and eventually when all his attempts failed miserably, he announced, believe it or not, "I am now a Keynesian!" In a desperate attempt to save the economy he resorted to deficit spending and then issued a 90-day freeze on wages, prices, and rent. Guess what happened right after he did that,...oh would you look at that, the economy improved. When he got reelected, he stopped the governmental imposition and inflation shot up again.

Conservative presidents always run under economic non-interventionism, but its all a lie. When something goes wrong, when the economy tanks, you go running back to Keynes to make it all better again. Then in the next election cycle, they run under "small government" AGAIN, and the whole country falls for it like they don't remember what just happened.

I see the disease of liberalism has now affected your sense of reason.

Ad hominem attacks are not arguments.

Well then what is Ike trying to say? He is obviously wrong.

Really? Do you have any reasoning as to why his analysis is flawed, or is it just "he is a diseased liberal, so he must be wrong!"?

Let's see. Reagan is being blamed for Carter's mistakes. And Nixon is being blamed for JFK's and LBJ's mistakes. Ike is usiong flawed logic.

Proof? Reagen tripled the size of the national debt and increased governmental spending.

well its a difficult task to figure out what causes a recession. Just because a president happens to reside over a recession does not mean he caused it.

Also, as Dninja stated earlier, recessions aren't necessarily all bad, but a naturally re-correcting mechanism of the market.

I am assuming that this standard only applies to Republican presidents, correct? Because I doubt anybody will allow this to apply to Obama.

Well, everyone seems to blame the recession on Bush anyways, so does it matter?

Bush did cause the recession . . .
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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1/23/2012 8:16:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 8:15:17 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/23/2012 8:06:58 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:54:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:51:38 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:45:38 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:43:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:41:39 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:45 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:04 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:25:15 PM, 000ike wrote:
Conservatism has never been for small government, it has simply been a slogan that never actually took form in policy. Lets take a critical look at your hero, Ronald Reagan.

At the start of Reagan's term, he cut taxes, he reduced government spending, he cut federal programs for the homeless and needy, and all the other lifeless and inhumane policies championed by the supposedly "fiscal" right. However, guess what he did the second his policies plunged the nation into a Recession - Massive economic interventionism! Keynesian-like spending and control by the fed, upsurge in taxes (the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981). He raised interest rates to stop inflation, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation spent a whopping $870 million to keep Banks from failing.

Now, lets look at Nixon. In the wake of recession, Nixon cut government spending and had the Federal Reserve Board raise interest rates to ameliorate the situation. As a result, we got Stagflation. Plants shut down, industries closed, and eventually when all his attempts failed miserably, he announced, believe it or not, "I am now a Keynesian!" In a desperate attempt to save the economy he resorted to deficit spending and then issued a 90-day freeze on wages, prices, and rent. Guess what happened right after he did that,...oh would you look at that, the economy improved. When he got reelected, he stopped the governmental imposition and inflation shot up again.

Conservative presidents always run under economic non-interventionism, but its all a lie. When something goes wrong, when the economy tanks, you go running back to Keynes to make it all better again. Then in the next election cycle, they run under "small government" AGAIN, and the whole country falls for it like they don't remember what just happened.

I see the disease of liberalism has now affected your sense of reason.

Ad hominem attacks are not arguments.

Well then what is Ike trying to say? He is obviously wrong.

Really? Do you have any reasoning as to why his analysis is flawed, or is it just "he is a diseased liberal, so he must be wrong!"?

Let's see. Reagan is being blamed for Carter's mistakes. And Nixon is being blamed for JFK's and LBJ's mistakes. Ike is usiong flawed logic.

Proof? Reagen tripled the size of the national debt and increased governmental spending.

well its a difficult task to figure out what causes a recession. Just because a president happens to reside over a recession does not mean he caused it.

Also, as Dninja stated earlier, recessions aren't necessarily all bad, but a naturally re-correcting mechanism of the market.

I am assuming that this standard only applies to Republican presidents, correct? Because I doubt anybody will allow this to apply to Obama.

Well, everyone seems to blame the recession on Bush anyways, so does it matter?

I say we just blame the recession on King George for pissing off the colonists, which fueled the whole creation of this country.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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1/23/2012 8:17:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 8:16:14 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 8:15:17 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/23/2012 8:06:58 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:54:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:51:38 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:45:38 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:43:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:41:39 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:45 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:04 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:25:15 PM, 000ike wrote:
Conservatism has never been for small government, it has simply been a slogan that never actually took form in policy. Lets take a critical look at your hero, Ronald Reagan.

At the start of Reagan's term, he cut taxes, he reduced government spending, he cut federal programs for the homeless and needy, and all the other lifeless and inhumane policies championed by the supposedly "fiscal" right. However, guess what he did the second his policies plunged the nation into a Recession - Massive economic interventionism! Keynesian-like spending and control by the fed, upsurge in taxes (the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981). He raised interest rates to stop inflation, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation spent a whopping $870 million to keep Banks from failing.

Now, lets look at Nixon. In the wake of recession, Nixon cut government spending and had the Federal Reserve Board raise interest rates to ameliorate the situation. As a result, we got Stagflation. Plants shut down, industries closed, and eventually when all his attempts failed miserably, he announced, believe it or not, "I am now a Keynesian!" In a desperate attempt to save the economy he resorted to deficit spending and then issued a 90-day freeze on wages, prices, and rent. Guess what happened right after he did that,...oh would you look at that, the economy improved. When he got reelected, he stopped the governmental imposition and inflation shot up again.

Conservative presidents always run under economic non-interventionism, but its all a lie. When something goes wrong, when the economy tanks, you go running back to Keynes to make it all better again. Then in the next election cycle, they run under "small government" AGAIN, and the whole country falls for it like they don't remember what just happened.

I see the disease of liberalism has now affected your sense of reason.

Ad hominem attacks are not arguments.

Well then what is Ike trying to say? He is obviously wrong.

Really? Do you have any reasoning as to why his analysis is flawed, or is it just "he is a diseased liberal, so he must be wrong!"?

Let's see. Reagan is being blamed for Carter's mistakes. And Nixon is being blamed for JFK's and LBJ's mistakes. Ike is usiong flawed logic.

Proof? Reagen tripled the size of the national debt and increased governmental spending.

well its a difficult task to figure out what causes a recession. Just because a president happens to reside over a recession does not mean he caused it.

Also, as Dninja stated earlier, recessions aren't necessarily all bad, but a naturally re-correcting mechanism of the market.

I am assuming that this standard only applies to Republican presidents, correct? Because I doubt anybody will allow this to apply to Obama.

Well, everyone seems to blame the recession on Bush anyways, so does it matter?

Bush did cause the recession . . .

What's the basis of your analysis?
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/23/2012 8:17:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 8:15:38 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/23/2012 8:06:58 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:54:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:51:38 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:45:38 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:43:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:41:39 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:45 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:04 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:25:15 PM, 000ike wrote:
Conservatism has never been for small government, it has simply been a slogan that never actually took form in policy. Lets take a critical look at your hero, Ronald Reagan.

At the start of Reagan's term, he cut taxes, he reduced government spending, he cut federal programs for the homeless and needy, and all the other lifeless and inhumane policies championed by the supposedly "fiscal" right. However, guess what he did the second his policies plunged the nation into a Recession - Massive economic interventionism! Keynesian-like spending and control by the fed, upsurge in taxes (the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981). He raised interest rates to stop inflation, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation spent a whopping $870 million to keep Banks from failing.

Now, lets look at Nixon. In the wake of recession, Nixon cut government spending and had the Federal Reserve Board raise interest rates to ameliorate the situation. As a result, we got Stagflation. Plants shut down, industries closed, and eventually when all his attempts failed miserably, he announced, believe it or not, "I am now a Keynesian!" In a desperate attempt to save the economy he resorted to deficit spending and then issued a 90-day freeze on wages, prices, and rent. Guess what happened right after he did that,...oh would you look at that, the economy improved. When he got reelected, he stopped the governmental imposition and inflation shot up again.

Conservative presidents always run under economic non-interventionism, but its all a lie. When something goes wrong, when the economy tanks, you go running back to Keynes to make it all better again. Then in the next election cycle, they run under "small government" AGAIN, and the whole country falls for it like they don't remember what just happened.

I see the disease of liberalism has now affected your sense of reason.

Ad hominem attacks are not arguments.

Well then what is Ike trying to say? He is obviously wrong.

Really? Do you have any reasoning as to why his analysis is flawed, or is it just "he is a diseased liberal, so he must be wrong!"?

Let's see. Reagan is being blamed for Carter's mistakes. And Nixon is being blamed for JFK's and LBJ's mistakes. Ike is usiong flawed logic.

Proof? Reagen tripled the size of the national debt and increased governmental spending.

well its a difficult task to figure out what causes a recession. Just because a president happens to reside over a recession does not mean he caused it.

Also, as Dninja stated earlier, recessions aren't necessarily all bad, but a naturally re-correcting mechanism of the market.

I am assuming that this standard only applies to Republican presidents, correct? Because I doubt anybody will allow this to apply to Obama.

Obama never caused the recession. He just failed to get us out. My main complaint with him is that he spent all this money on the stimulus and unemployment is still high. By there own acounts, unemployment is higher with the stimulus then without:

http://tinyurl.com...

Also roylatham's debate has some good analysis on him:
http://www.debate.org...

He has created conditions in which companies have prospered; it is not his fault that they refuse to hire. They are probably keeping unemployment low so that they can force him to lose the election.
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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1/23/2012 8:17:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 8:16:14 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 8:15:17 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/23/2012 8:06:58 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:54:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:51:38 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:45:38 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:43:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:41:39 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:45 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:40:04 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 1/23/2012 7:25:15 PM, 000ike wrote:
Conservatism has never been for small government, it has simply been a slogan that never actually took form in policy. Lets take a critical look at your hero, Ronald Reagan.

At the start of Reagan's term, he cut taxes, he reduced government spending, he cut federal programs for the homeless and needy, and all the other lifeless and inhumane policies championed by the supposedly "fiscal" right. However, guess what he did the second his policies plunged the nation into a Recession - Massive economic interventionism! Keynesian-like spending and control by the fed, upsurge in taxes (the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981). He raised interest rates to stop inflation, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation spent a whopping $870 million to keep Banks from failing.

Now, lets look at Nixon. In the wake of recession, Nixon cut government spending and had the Federal Reserve Board raise interest rates to ameliorate the situation. As a result, we got Stagflation. Plants shut down, industries closed, and eventually when all his attempts failed miserably, he announced, believe it or not, "I am now a Keynesian!" In a desperate attempt to save the economy he resorted to deficit spending and then issued a 90-day freeze on wages, prices, and rent. Guess what happened right after he did that,...oh would you look at that, the economy improved. When he got reelected, he stopped the governmental imposition and inflation shot up again.

Conservative presidents always run under economic non-interventionism, but its all a lie. When something goes wrong, when the economy tanks, you go running back to Keynes to make it all better again. Then in the next election cycle, they run under "small government" AGAIN, and the whole country falls for it like they don't remember what just happened.

I see the disease of liberalism has now affected your sense of reason.

Ad hominem attacks are not arguments.

Well then what is Ike trying to say? He is obviously wrong.

Really? Do you have any reasoning as to why his analysis is flawed, or is it just "he is a diseased liberal, so he must be wrong!"?

Let's see. Reagan is being blamed for Carter's mistakes. And Nixon is being blamed for JFK's and LBJ's mistakes. Ike is usiong flawed logic.

Proof? Reagen tripled the size of the national debt and increased governmental spending.

well its a difficult task to figure out what causes a recession. Just because a president happens to reside over a recession does not mean he caused it.

Also, as Dninja stated earlier, recessions aren't necessarily all bad, but a naturally re-correcting mechanism of the market.

I am assuming that this standard only applies to Republican presidents, correct? Because I doubt anybody will allow this to apply to Obama.

Well, everyone seems to blame the recession on Bush anyways, so does it matter?

Bush did cause the recession . . .

Incorrect again.