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NBC Debate: Your Thoughts

1Historygenius
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1/23/2012 10:40:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think Gingrich did good repelling attacks. He did weaken sometimes but not entirely. Mitt Romney did OK. The "conservative" Rick Santorum did OK but he will still probably lose. Ron Paul was irrelevant.
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

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M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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1/23/2012 11:13:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 10:40:07 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
I think Gingrich did good repelling attacks. He did weaken sometimes but not entirely. Mitt Romney did OK. The "conservative" Rick Santorum did OK but he will still probably lose. Ron Paul was irrelevant.

I did get a chance to see it, but from your post, doesn't look like it was great. lol

What I read: Gingrich, good, I guess. Romney, meh. Santorum, even more meh. Ron Paul, ha.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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1/23/2012 11:25:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ron Paul destroyed his opponents and managed to even express his foreign policy favoribly.

Romney silenced Gingrich. Santorum slammed both Gingrich and Romney.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
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Reasoning
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1/24/2012 12:02:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm waiting to see what Elephant Watcher thinks.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
1Historygenius
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1/24/2012 12:44:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/23/2012 11:13:36 PM, M.Torres wrote:
At 1/23/2012 10:40:07 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
I think Gingrich did good repelling attacks. He did weaken sometimes but not entirely. Mitt Romney did OK. The "conservative" Rick Santorum did OK but he will still probably lose. Ron Paul was irrelevant.

I did get a chance to see it, but from your post, doesn't look like it was great. lol

What I read: Gingrich, good, I guess. Romney, meh. Santorum, even more meh. Ron Paul, ha.

No it was not that special at all. The audience was supposed to hold its applause so you could not tell if a candidate was doing favorable or not. The moderator did not allow much big arguments to happen only two or three really occurred.
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

Latest debate - Reagan was a better President than Obama: http://www.debate.org...
1Historygenius
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1/24/2012 12:45:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Elephant Watcher thought:

"In tonight's debate, Newt Gingrich failed to live up to the high expectations that have been set by his previous debate performances. Mitt Romney, who had been on the defensive in the last few debates, shifted to offense. Romney did a good job attacking Gingrich, and managed to look tough without looking nasty. Gingrich defended himself fairly well at first, but he showed vulnerability as time went on--near the end of his extended one-on-one exchange with Romney, Gingrich was (uncharacteristically) at a loss for words for a moment.

But the debate was not a clear-cut victory for Romney. His central line of attack against Gingrich was Gingrich's lobbying and taking money from Freddie Mac. Romney would have done better to directly attack either Gingrich's lack of conservatism or lack of electability. The lobbying charge would presumably be aimed at Gingrich's electability, but is not as direct as, for example, Romney's earlier attacks that Gingrich is "zany" and undisciplined.

Romney showed discipline when attacking Gingrich, but made a gaffe on the subject of illegal immigration. When asked how illegals would be forced to return home if they were not "rounded up," Romney explained that illegals would do "self-deportation." Romney went on to describe that if employers didn't hire illegals, illegals would not be able to find work and would return home to begin the process of legal immigration.

Ironically, when Rick Santorum was asked whether "self-deportation" was feasible, he immediately said that it was and that it was already happening, with many illegals returning to Mexico due to the bad economy. Regardless, Romney's use of the phrase "self-deportation" makes an easy sound-bite and could hurt him by making him appear soft on illegal immigration. Romney may have been attempting to curry favor with the Cuban vote in Florida, but a gaffe is a gaffe.

Fortunately for Romney, he dealt with the tax return issue quickly, was not challenged on Bain Capital, and largely was not attacked for Romneycare or flip-flopping.

Gingrich did not get the opportunity to have a stand-out moment in the debate. The debate moderators never gave him a chance to attack them for being too liberal.

Santorum was mostly out of the debate, since the action focused on Romney and Gingrich. Interestingly, Santorum chose not to go on the offensive against either Romney or Gingrich until his closing remarks. Meanwhile, Ron Paul was irrelevant and received little attention."

As of now Mitt Romney has a 79% chance to win, Gingrich 19%, Santorum 2%, and Ron Paul has never risen above 0%.
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

Latest debate - Reagan was a better President than Obama: http://www.debate.org...
1Historygenius
Posts: 1,639
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1/24/2012 12:47:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Latest polls out of Florida:

01/23 PPP (D) -- Gingrich 38, Romney 33, Santorum 13, Paul 10
01/22 Rasmussen -- Gingrich 41, Romney 32, Santorum 11, Paul 8
01/22 Insider Adv -- Gingrich 34, Romney 26, Paul 13, Santorum 11
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

Latest debate - Reagan was a better President than Obama: http://www.debate.org...
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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1/24/2012 12:48:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/24/2012 12:47:13 AM, 1Historygenius wrote:
Latest polls out of Florida:

01/23 PPP (D) -- Gingrich 38, Romney 33, Santorum 13, Paul 10
01/22 Rasmussen -- Gingrich 41, Romney 32, Santorum 11, Paul 8
01/22 Insider Adv -- Gingrich 34, Romney 26, Paul 13, Santorum 11

He's taking the South by storm. It will be HUGE if he wins Florida.
1Historygenius
Posts: 1,639
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1/24/2012 12:55:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/24/2012 12:48:51 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 1/24/2012 12:47:13 AM, 1Historygenius wrote:
Latest polls out of Florida:

01/23 PPP (D) -- Gingrich 38, Romney 33, Santorum 13, Paul 10
01/22 Rasmussen -- Gingrich 41, Romney 32, Santorum 11, Paul 8
01/22 Insider Adv -- Gingrich 34, Romney 26, Paul 13, Santorum 11

He's taking the South by storm. It will be HUGE if he wins Florida.
Yeah and it seems that only thing stopping him will be the next debate. If he performs bad at the one on Thursday he may lose. However, if he wins the debate or the debate is boring then he will win Florida.
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

Latest debate - Reagan was a better President than Obama: http://www.debate.org...
inferno
Posts: 10,556
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1/24/2012 9:19:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/24/2012 12:55:32 AM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 1/24/2012 12:48:51 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 1/24/2012 12:47:13 AM, 1Historygenius wrote:
Latest polls out of Florida:

01/23 PPP (D) -- Gingrich 38, Romney 33, Santorum 13, Paul 10
01/22 Rasmussen -- Gingrich 41, Romney 32, Santorum 11, Paul 8
01/22 Insider Adv -- Gingrich 34, Romney 26, Paul 13, Santorum 11

He's taking the South by storm. It will be HUGE if he wins Florida.
Yeah and it seems that only thing stopping him will be the next debate. If he performs bad at the one on Thursday he may lose. However, if he wins the debate or the debate is boring then he will win Florida.

The debate was boring as crap. Gingrinch was exposed for the fraud that he truly is. More unscrupulous back door deals with Mac. Romney, the same as always.
This party is as good as dead when they go up against the establishment and Obama.
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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1/24/2012 10:10:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/24/2012 12:10:38 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I'm a Gingrich fan now, I think he's done incredibly in the debates as of late

Look where electing a smooth talking/good debating politician got us in 2008. Debates are all rhetoric. Look deeper and you'll find that Gingrich has

1) expressed support for the individual health care mandate:

""Personal responsibility extends to the purchase of health insurance. Citizens should not be able to cheat their neighbors by not buying insurance, particularly when they can afford it, and expect others to pay for their care when they need it." - 2007

2) supported cap and trade:

"I think if you have mandatory carbon caps combined with a trading system, much like we did with sulfur, and if you have a tax-incentive program for investing in the solutions, that there's a package there that's very, very good. And frankly, it's something I would strongly support." - 2007

3) openly states that he loves Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Teddy Roosevelt, and Woodrow Wilson, literally three of the most liberal Presidents in American history

4) flip-flopped on those first two issues, denying in 2011 that he ever supported the individual health care mandate or cap and trade

5) flip-flopped on intervening in Libya in March 2011, saying on March 7 that we should set up a no-fly zone immediately and then on the 23rd saying he would not have intervened and there were other ways we could have affected Qaddafi

6) flip-flopped on Paul Ryan's budget plan within two days, first calling it a radical jump and right wing social engineering, then two days later saying he supports Paul Ryan and the budget plan

7) supported the wall street bailouts

8) served as a lobbyist for Freddie Mac collecting tons of money - over one million dollars - and then lying about it... a total government insider (once bragged about charging tens of thousands of dollars for giving speeches, calling it "the standard Washington fee)

9) lived a personal life that is seriously immoral for obvious reasons and that make him unelectable in a general election (repeatedly cheating on wives, requesting open marriages, and the lobbying)

10) openly supports amnesty for millions of illegal aliens

So you see, with Gingrich, there's really more than meets the eye. He's truly the anti-thesis of conservatism...
1Historygenius
Posts: 1,639
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1/24/2012 11:24:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/24/2012 10:10:36 AM, jat93 wrote:
At 1/24/2012 12:10:38 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I'm a Gingrich fan now, I think he's done incredibly in the debates as of late

Look where electing a smooth talking/good debating politician got us in 2008. Debates are all rhetoric. Look deeper and you'll find that Gingrich has

1) expressed support for the individual health care mandate:

""Personal responsibility extends to the purchase of health insurance. Citizens should not be able to cheat their neighbors by not buying insurance, particularly when they can afford it, and expect others to pay for their care when they need it." - 2007

2) supported cap and trade:

"I think if you have mandatory carbon caps combined with a trading system, much like we did with sulfur, and if you have a tax-incentive program for investing in the solutions, that there's a package there that's very, very good. And frankly, it's something I would strongly support." - 2007

3) openly states that he loves Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Teddy Roosevelt, and Woodrow Wilson, literally three of the most liberal Presidents in American history

4) flip-flopped on those first two issues, denying in 2011 that he ever supported the individual health care mandate or cap and trade

5) flip-flopped on intervening in Libya in March 2011, saying on March 7 that we should set up a no-fly zone immediately and then on the 23rd saying he would not have intervened and there were other ways we could have affected Qaddafi

6) flip-flopped on Paul Ryan's budget plan within two days, first calling it a radical jump and right wing social engineering, then two days later saying he supports Paul Ryan and the budget plan

7) supported the wall street bailouts

8) served as a lobbyist for Freddie Mac collecting tons of money - over one million dollars - and then lying about it... a total government insider (once bragged about charging tens of thousands of dollars for giving speeches, calling it "the standard Washington fee)

9) lived a personal life that is seriously immoral for obvious reasons and that make him unelectable in a general election (repeatedly cheating on wives, requesting open marriages, and the lobbying)

10) openly supports amnesty for millions of illegal aliens

So you see, with Gingrich, there's really more than meets the eye. He's truly the anti-thesis of conservatism...

1. In the 1990s, Newt and many other conservatives, such as the Heritage Foundation, proposed a mandate to purchase health insurance as the alternative to Hillarycare. However, the problems outlined above caused Newt to come to the principled conclusion that a mandate to purchase health insurance was unconstitutional, unworkable and counterproductive to lowering the cost of healthcare. Today, Newt carries the banner in fighting for the repeal of Obamacare and advocates for a "patient power" replacement that will create a free market framework for healthcare, provide affordable, portable, and reliable healthcare coverage, and establish a healthcare safety net focused on those truly in need.

2. Newt absolutely opposes "cap and trade" as well as any system of taxing carbon emissions. He testified before Congress against it in 2009 and led a grassroots effort while the Chairman of American Solutions to block its passage in the House and Senate.

3. When the Japanese sneak attack at Pearl Harbor threw the United States into a global war against Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy and Imperial Japan, Franklin Delano Roosevelt rose to the challenge. He led the allies in a global war with remarkable skill and built the greatest military in history. Newt believes that without FDR's leadership as Commander in Chief during World War II, the 20th century would have been a Nazi century rather than an American century. Ronald Reagan too praised FDR, saying that "like the Founding Fathers before him, F.D.R. was an American giant." Its not that there liberals, but certain things those presidents succeeded in.

4. Watch the video embedded here which puts Newt's comments about Libya in the proper context to show that his position was consistent.

5. So why did Newt use the term "right wing social engineering" on Meet the Press when discussing these proposed changes to Medicare? Gingrich is opposed to any political party imposing dramatic change against the consent of the governed. Afterwards, Newt quickly admitted that his choice of words was too extreme, and he apologized to Congressman Ryan shortly thereafter.

6. Recent reporting from Bloomberg News on the Gingrich Group's consulting services for Freddie Mac confirms that Gingrich and his firm were not paid to lobby and that Gingrich never acted as an advocate to stop any legislation or regulation affecting Freddie Mac.

7. Newt has been honest and forthright about the fact that he has had moments in his life that he regrets, that he has had to seek reconciliation, and go to God for forgiveness. Today, Newt and Callista have a very strong marriage. They produce movies, write books, and enjoy their time on the campaign trail together. They are also blessed to be very close to their family. Newt believes that by continuing to be honest and forthright about his past failings, voters will come to understand the man that he is now and conclude they can trust him to represent the American people in the White House. Furthermore, Newt welcomes the opportunity to clear up the many lies and misconceptions that persist about his past:
Extramarital Affair During Clinton Impeachment
Asking Wife For Divorce While She Was In The Hospital Dying of Cancer

10. Newt is opposed to amnesty and has a clear record of vigorous opposition to the Bush era amnesty legislation. Newt believes America must be a nation of laws. The first duty of the federal government is national defense, and it is inexcusable that we haven't secured the border. In his 21st Century Contract with America, Newt pledges to control the southern border by January 1, 2014, waiving any regulations and pushing aside any bureaucracies that get in the way.

http://www.youtube.com...
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

Latest debate - Reagan was a better President than Obama: http://www.debate.org...
mongeese
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1/24/2012 11:54:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/24/2012 11:24:45 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:

1. In the 1990s, Newt and many other conservatives, such as the Heritage Foundation, proposed a mandate to purchase health insurance as the alternative to Hillarycare. However, the problems outlined above caused Newt to come to the principled conclusion that a mandate to purchase health insurance was unconstitutional, unworkable and counterproductive to lowering the cost of healthcare. Today, Newt carries the banner in fighting for the repeal of Obamacare and advocates for a "patient power" replacement that will create a free market framework for healthcare, provide affordable, portable, and reliable healthcare coverage, and establish a healthcare safety net focused on those truly in need.

Why would we want a man who supported a position only to later realize that it was "unconstitutional, unworkable, and counterproductive" over a man who first realized that, then made the decision to oppose it?

2. Newt absolutely opposes "cap and trade" as well as any system of taxing carbon emissions. He testified before Congress against it in 2009 and led a grassroots effort while the Chairman of American Solutions to block its passage in the House and Senate.

Consistency is not one of Newt's strong points, it seems.

5. So why did Newt use the term "right wing social engineering" on Meet the Press when discussing these proposed changes to Medicare? Gingrich is opposed to any political party imposing dramatic change against the consent of the governed. Afterwards, Newt quickly admitted that his choice of words was too extreme, and he apologized to Congressman Ryan shortly thereafter.

Do we want a president who has to rather constantly had to apologize for what he said?