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Obama's Socialism Works!!!

Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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1/26/2012 4:46:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan". All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little..
The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F. As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. It could not be any simpler than that.

Remember, there IS a test coming up. The 2012 elections.

These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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1/26/2012 4:48:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 4:46:04 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan". All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little..
The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F. As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. It could not be any simpler than that.

Remember, there IS a test coming up. The 2012 elections.

These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

http://www.snopes.com...

The story is legend, and unlikely true.
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Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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1/26/2012 4:50:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 4:48:17 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/26/2012 4:46:04 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan". All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little..
The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F. As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. It could not be any simpler than that.

Remember, there IS a test coming up. The 2012 elections.

These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

http://www.snopes.com...

The story is legend, and unlikely true.

I thought the ending would be the teacher revealing himself to be Albert Einstein.
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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1/26/2012 4:52:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Who cares about whether the story is true or not? It still doesn't apply to all of economics, nor to the American system.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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1/26/2012 6:17:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The grade is more important, the piece of paper that says you know shyt, is more important to most college students than an education.

I don't take those with "an education" seriously until their knowledge is demonstrated. Obviously, there are some in the university that do care about learning.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
16kadams
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1/26/2012 7:03:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 4:52:11 PM, M.Torres wrote:
Who cares about whether the story is true or not? It still doesn't apply to all of economics, nor to the American system.

It is a simple version of wealth distributaion, ps socialism doesn't work:

http://the-dp-is-good-always.blogspot.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
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baggins
Posts: 855
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1/27/2012 10:34:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
If the example is modified a bit - it may work. Grades are still based on hard work - but no one fails. Everyone is guaranteed to get a minimum pass grade - let us say a 'D' - if they have done the minimum amount of required coursework (let us say - attended the lectures and finished assignments). I think it may lead to fairly productive system.

I agree a pure socialism will never work. I also suspect a pure capitalist will lead to large scale social unrest. (As a large proportion of students begin to fail...)
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rogue
Posts: 2,325
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1/27/2012 9:40:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This is a dumb post. First of all Obama is far from socialist if you actually look at his policies. And second of all you are confusing socialism with communism. Also, you are strawmanning the system.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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1/27/2012 10:09:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/27/2012 9:40:45 PM, rogue wrote:
This is a dumb post. First of all Obama is far from socialist if you actually look at his policies. And second of all you are confusing socialism with communism. Also, you are strawmanning the system.

Bang bang bang! ^_^

I think a much more accurate scenario would be a brand new grading system, whereby instead of whole credits with a grade value, grade would determine credit value.

That way, eventually, everyone can get through college, but only if you actually learn the material. There is no longer a hierarchy of who is better or worse based on their performance; instead, it's intrinsic, because those who perform well will enter the job force sooner, achieve higher ranks, and establish themselves younger.

What the...

Gaddammit, I fvcking like that!

Hmmm...
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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1/28/2012 12:11:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Your analogy is incredibly flawed. First of all no reasonable person in America is arguing for a system where everyone gets the same rewards, so your analogy attacks an argument of your own creation.

Second, your analogy uses a written test. In such a test everyone is given the same opportunity to pass. Get all the questions right and you get 100, get all of the questions wrong and you get a 0. It is no where near that simple in America. Do you think it is coincidence that the Koch brothers happen to be billionaires just like their dad? Do you think it is coincidence that children who grow up in poor neighborhoods will overwhelmingly wind up poor as adults? Do you think that the top 1% controls over a third of the wealth in this country because they work that much harder then everyone else?

The entire point to your analogy is that people work harder when they have personal incentive to do so. For this to be effective, the rewards must be both equitable and realistic. It is tough to create that in a purely capitalist society where 72% of the money is controlled by 5% of the population.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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1/28/2012 12:34:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 12:11:45 AM, Double_R wrote:
Your analogy is incredibly flawed. First of all no reasonable person in America is arguing for a system where everyone gets the same rewards, so your analogy attacks an argument of your own creation.

Second, your analogy uses a written test. In such a test everyone is given the same opportunity to pass. Get all the questions right and you get 100, get all of the questions wrong and you get a 0. It is no where near that simple in America. Do you think it is coincidence that the Koch brothers happen to be billionaires just like their dad? Do you think it is coincidence that children who grow up in poor neighborhoods will overwhelmingly wind up poor as adults? Do you think that the top 1% controls over a third of the wealth in this country because they work that much harder then everyone else?

The entire point to your analogy is that people work harder when they have personal incentive to do so. For this to be effective, the rewards must be both equitable and realistic. It is tough to create that in a purely capitalist society where 72% of the money is controlled by 5% of the population.

Why do you assume that the students are given the same opportunities? Some of them come from backgrounds that would make them better or worse at the subject. Some of them also might have access to more social capital (friends and family) that can help them out or physical capital (money for a tutor) that can increase their likelihood to excel.

My mother is a math professor. My brother got an 800 on the math SAT and I got a 750. It's no coincidence that we are both good at math. We have the opportunity because we have access to someone who is good at math, and have strong genetics.

Getting a good grade is also hardly a test of "merit". Not everyone works equally hard to obtain the same grade, since some people are better at learning then others.
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Double_R
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1/28/2012 2:46:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 12:34:02 AM, darkkermit wrote:
Why do you assume that the students are given the same opportunities? Some of them come from backgrounds that would make them better or worse at the subject. Some of them also might have access to more social capital (friends and family) that can help them out or physical capital (money for a tutor) that can increase their likelihood to excel.

My mother is a math professor. My brother got an 800 on the math SAT and I got a 750. It's no coincidence that we are both good at math. We have the opportunity because we have access to someone who is good at math, and have strong genetics.

Getting a good grade is also hardly a test of "merit". Not everyone works equally hard to obtain the same grade, since some people are better at learning then others.

I just finished a debate about equal opportunity, so no I don't think they all have the same opportunity the way you describe (although I would love for you to explain what you just said to DanT). It all depends on what set of circumstances the discussion focuses on, but that is way off topic.

My point was that comparing what a student needs to do to pass a test to what an individual has to do to succeed in a matured capitalist society is not a valid comparison. If someone is in a position to take the test they have already conquered more then half the battle, so the analogy disregards the challenges that many hard working people face. It makes it sound like if we all work hard we can all "get 100's". That may be the case with a test, but it's not that simple in the real world.
CosmicAlfonzo
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1/28/2012 1:00:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Making it in a capitalist society is less about working hard, and more about being creative.

Remember, the goal is to separate people's money from their wallet, and attach it to your pocket. You can shovel and dig ditches for 20 hours a day, and you'll be doing little more than digging your own grave.

Before you start digging, make sure someone will pay you. You can even take a course in the marketing and sales of mole people to help you grab those customers.. remember, be your own boss, get paid under the table, and don't pay taxes. Will you be rich? Maybe, maybe not. Probably not, but it was fun anyway, right?
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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1/28/2012 7:07:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If Obama's a socialist then how come my income isnt the same as everyone elses?
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rogue
Posts: 2,325
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1/28/2012 7:43:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
P.S. that isn't even how socialism works. In socialism big business is run by the government and there are a lot more social programs. You know what countries have the highest standards of living? Those with lots of social programs like Scandinavia.
luardohm
Posts: 1
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2/25/2013 6:18:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/26/2012 7:03:01 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/26/2012 4:52:11 PM, M.Torres wrote:
Who cares about whether the story is true or not? It still doesn't apply to all of economics, nor to the American system.

It is a simple version of wealth distributaion, ps socialism doesn't work:


http://the-dp-is-good-always.blogspot.com...

The only thing we need to analize in a capitalism system VS a socialism is:
How much does it cost to society to have poor people?
Are we spending more money keeping the poor people far from our houses so they won't steal anything from us?
More money for security programms because we might get killed in the streets by the poors o get kidnaped?
or is it cheaper to give this people a fair wage for living and oportunities, and giving the security to all population that they won't die of hunger.
Most of west europe countries are very socialistic and they have the less crime and more quality of life even for inmigrant which in USA is indignant how inmigrants live.

Is a matter of balance between these two systems.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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2/25/2013 6:24:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/27/2012 10:34:16 AM, baggins wrote:
If the example is modified a bit - it may work. Grades are still based on hard work - but no one fails. Everyone is guaranteed to get a minimum pass grade - let us say a 'D' - if they have done the minimum amount of required coursework (let us say - attended the lectures and finished assignments). I think it may lead to fairly productive system.
Why would that improve anything at all?


I agree a pure socialism will never work. I also suspect a pure capitalist will lead to large scale social unrest. (As a large proportion of students begin to fail...)
Are you assuming most people are not competent to respond to incentives?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
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2/25/2013 6:28:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
It makes it sound like if we all work hard we can all "get 100's".
They can, they just can't all get extra credit. Koch is getting extra credit for inheritance and successful risk-taking and a myriad of other things, not just a baseline expectation for being a productive worker. The inheritance makes him lucky, but doesn't screw anyone out of anything, it's not zero-sum.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.