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African Americans

000ike
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1/28/2012 11:17:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I've been thinking about it, and realized that there's something fundamentally disturbing about the state of African Americans today and how they are viewed in society.

Here you have a race with a long history of oppression and injustice. You have a whole group of people living with the knowledge that there was once a time when they were not considered human beings. There was once a time in this very nation where they were shunned from American society for no fault of their own and no reason beyond anger and disapproval of their very existence. You have a race originating from a continent that has been plundered by the world. Its resources stolen by multinationals and governments, its land historically colonized by Europe.

We are beyond such times, but that does not mean there exists no psychological recoil. Undoubtedly, the segregation and slavery of the past are what brought many African Americans to poverty, and like a genetic disease that poverty passed on from generation to generation, still hampering the race today. The question I have is, how can one have self-esteem when other races parade in success, but yours has nothing to show but some sort of inferiority? How can one have self-esteem and a will to excel if they are largely born poor and largely expected to fail?

Upon all this, we have Conservatives like Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich that would call them a race of food stamps and laziness? Upon all this, there are people like jimtimmy who would then use the result of injustice past to assume them inherently inferior?

No, this is so wrong. If you have ever agreed with Jimtimmy, if you have ever so much as entertained the validity of his morally callous views, if you have ever supported him, if you have ever sympathized with him (and that goes for everyone from Darkkermit, to 16kadams, to Reasoning), come back to Earth, there's a dark and dismal shadow of history that you must not undermine.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
16kadams
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1/28/2012 11:24:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:17:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
I've been thinking about it, and realized that there's something fundamentally disturbing about the state of African Americans today and how they are viewed in society.

ok...

Here you have a race with a long history of oppression and injustice. You have a whole group of people living with the knowledge that there was once a time when they were not considered human beings. There was once a time in this very nation where they were shunned from American society for no fault of their own and no reason beyond anger and disapproval of their very existence. You have a race originating from a continent that has been plundered by the world. Its resources stolen by multinationals and governments, its land historically colonized by Europe.

sad :(

We are beyond such times, but that does not mean there exists no psychological recoil. Undoubtedly, the segregation and slavery of the past are what brought many African Americans to poverty, and like a genetic disease that poverty passed on from generation to generation, still hampering the race today. The question I have is, how can one have self-esteem when other races parade in success, but yours has nothing to show but some sort of inferiority? How can one have self-esteem and a will to excel if they are largely born poor and largely expected to fail?

Their tough and hard working individuals

Upon all this, we have Conservatives like Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich that would call them a race of food stamps and laziness? Upon all this, there are people like jimtimmy who would then use the result of injustice past to assume them inherently inferior?

WTF Statistically those people are correct. But I think their words are poorly phrased. But I do not think they believe their a race of laziness.

Jimtimmy says on average their less intellegent, any one African American can be smarter than a Caucasian, it's called an average. (am I wrong?)

No, this is so wrong. If you have ever agreed with Jimtimmy, if you have ever so much as entertained the validity of his morally callous views, if you have ever supported him, if you have ever sympathized with him (and that goes for everyone from Darkkermit, to 16kadams, to Reasoning), come back to Earth, there's a dark and dismal shadow of history that you must not undermine.

I am mentioned :) No but seriously my best friend is African American. He recognizes that on AVERAGE his race is slightly, very small, tiny bit, less intelligent, yet this kid is a smart child. Ay one person can be smart, Obama, Collin Powell, but on average they are less intelligent. It is an average, not one by one. I judge based on the person not the skin, but the average part is a fact. They can always be smarter, but can also be dumber. It's an average chill.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Nope.
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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Reasoning
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1/28/2012 11:32:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:24:30 PM, 16kadams wrote:
No but seriously my best friend is African American. He recognizes that on AVERAGE his race is slightly, very small, tiny bit, less intelligent

15 IQ points is not "slightly, very small, tiny bit."
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Reasoning
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1/28/2012 11:34:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Then again, latinos also have a lower average IQ score than non-latino whites.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
16kadams
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1/28/2012 11:35:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Average: An intermediate level or degree: near the average in size.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com...

It doesn't say all is says an intermediate level, also Latinos have a lower IQ on average, now go to my profile and look at my race. (yes it is true)
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
000ike
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1/28/2012 11:37:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:32:33 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:24:30 PM, 16kadams wrote:
No but seriously my best friend is African American. He recognizes that on AVERAGE his race is slightly, very small, tiny bit, less intelligent

15 IQ points is not "slightly, very small, tiny bit."

are you aware that environment changes IQ by well over 15 points? some studies reported 17, others recorded 20....

Are you also aware that the Flynn Effect can account for up to 25 IQ points differential?

yeah, but I'm sure the gaps are mostly genetic, I mean these numbers mean nothing right?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
16kadams
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1/28/2012 11:41:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:37:40 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:32:33 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:24:30 PM, 16kadams wrote:
No but seriously my best friend is African American. He recognizes that on AVERAGE his race is slightly, very small, tiny bit, less intelligent

15 IQ points is not "slightly, very small, tiny bit."

are you aware that environment changes IQ by well over 15 points? some studies reported 17, others recorded 20....

Are you also aware that the Flynn Effect can account for up to 25 IQ points differential?

yeah, but I'm sure the gaps are mostly genetic, I mean these numbers mean nothing right?

interesting.

"There are aspects of environments that family members have in common (for example, characteristics of the home). This shared family environment accounts for 0.25–0.35 of the variation in IQ in childhood. "
http://en.wikipedia.org...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Reasoning
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1/28/2012 11:42:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:41:06 PM, 16kadams wrote:
interesting.

"There are aspects of environments that family members have in common (for example, characteristics of the home). This shared family environment accounts for 0.25–0.35 of the variation in IQ in childhood. "
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Yes, in childhood. By adulthood these effects almost completely disappear.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Wnope
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1/28/2012 11:42:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:17:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
I've been thinking about it, and realized that there's something fundamentally disturbing about the state of African Americans today and how they are viewed in society.

Here you have a race with a long history of oppression and injustice. You have a whole group of people living with the knowledge that there was once a time when they were not considered human beings. There was once a time in this very nation where they were shunned from American society for no fault of their own and no reason beyond anger and disapproval of their very existence. You have a race originating from a continent that has been plundered by the world. Its resources stolen by multinationals and governments, its land historically colonized by Europe.

We are beyond such times, but that does not mean there exists no psychological recoil. Undoubtedly, the segregation and slavery of the past are what brought many African Americans to poverty, and like a genetic disease that poverty passed on from generation to generation, still hampering the race today. The question I have is, how can one have self-esteem when other races parade in success, but yours has nothing to show but some sort of inferiority? How can one have self-esteem and a will to excel if they are largely born poor and largely expected to fail?

Upon all this, we have Conservatives like Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich that would call them a race of food stamps and laziness? Upon all this, there are people like jimtimmy who would then use the result of injustice past to assume them inherently inferior?

No, this is so wrong. If you have ever agreed with Jimtimmy, if you have ever so much as entertained the validity of his morally callous views, if you have ever supported him, if you have ever sympathized with him (and that goes for everyone from Darkkermit, to 16kadams, to Reasoning), come back to Earth, there's a dark and dismal shadow of history that you must not undermine.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

It's called "debate.org."

The scientific community DOES debate the source of the black/white gap in IQ scores. It is accepted that the gap exists.

There is legitimate scientific controversy over whether genetics contributes to the black/white IQ gap. It isn't open and shut. You might not like JT's rationale or the inferences he uses (I sure don't), but that doesn't mean we should censor anyone who entertains the thought.

Your post reminds me too much of speeches I've seen denouncing evolutionary theory and atheism.

And for chrissakes, if you want the subject to die down, we should stop making threads labeled "African American" or "blah blah blacks blah blah."
Wnope
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1/28/2012 11:43:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:37:40 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:32:33 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:24:30 PM, 16kadams wrote:
No but seriously my best friend is African American. He recognizes that on AVERAGE his race is slightly, very small, tiny bit, less intelligent

15 IQ points is not "slightly, very small, tiny bit."

are you aware that environment changes IQ by well over 15 points? some studies reported 17, others recorded 20....

Are you also aware that the Flynn Effect can account for up to 25 IQ points differential?

yeah, but I'm sure the gaps are mostly genetic, I mean these numbers mean nothing right?

No offense, but do you have a source for that number on the Flynn Effect? I recall numbers closer to 5 points.
Reasoning
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1/28/2012 11:43:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:37:40 PM, 000ike wrote:
are you aware that environment changes IQ by well over 15 points? some studies reported 17, others recorded 20....

In adults? Source?
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Reasoning
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1/28/2012 11:53:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The evidence from the Texas Adoption Projet shows that there is "no effect of upbringing on the IQs of late adolescents."[1]

1 http://www.realclearmarkets.com...
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
000ike
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1/28/2012 11:53:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:43:59 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:37:40 PM, 000ike wrote:
are you aware that environment changes IQ by well over 15 points? some studies reported 17, others recorded 20....

In adults? Source?

" Various tests have shown that there is a socio-economic link to IQ as people who are better off financially score 17 point higher on IQ tests than those financially disadvantaged people who take the same exam" (http://allpsych.com...)

" Poverty alone,the researchers found, accounted for 52 percent of that difference, cutting it to 7 points. Controlling for the children's home environment reduced the difference by another 28 percent, to a statistically insignificant 3 points -- in essence, eliminating the gap altogether."
(http://www.ipr.northwestern.edu...)
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
16kadams
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1/28/2012 11:53:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:53:17 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
I have no clue why you would make this thread.

You must really want to start another flame war.

lol
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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
000ike
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1/28/2012 11:55:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:53:48 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:53:17 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
I have no clue why you would make this thread.

You must really want to start another flame war.

if you don't like the thread, you're welcome to leave. The truth will be heard, no matter how much you try to cloud it.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
16kadams
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1/28/2012 11:55:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:17:13 PM, 000ike wrote:

No, this is so wrong. If you have ever agreed with Jimtimmy, if you have ever so much as entertained the validity of his morally callous views, if you have ever supported him, if you have ever sympathized with him (and that goes for everyone from Darkkermit, to 16kadams, to Reasoning), come back to Earth, there's a dark and dismal shadow of history that you must not undermine.


Agreeing with him should make us sad? He has scientific fact. Sadly it is fact, I wish it wasn't but on AVERAGE they are less intelligent. But average not person to person.
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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Reasoning
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1/28/2012 11:56:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:53:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
" Various tests have shown that there is a socio-economic link to IQ as people who are better off financially score 17 point higher on IQ tests than those financially disadvantaged people who take the same exam" (http://allpsych.com...)

Well, duh. People who are smarter will tend to earn more money than people who are dumber. That's a causal relation, but a causal relation in the opposite direction of what you seem to believe. The adoption studies show no effect of upbringing on IQ upon reaching late adolescents.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
jimtimmy
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1/28/2012 11:59:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:17:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
I've been thinking about it, and realized that there's something fundamentally disturbing about the state of African Americans today and how they are viewed in society.

Here you have a race with a long history of oppression and injustice. You have a whole group of people living with the knowledge that there was once a time when they were not considered human beings. There was once a time in this very nation where they were shunned from American society for no fault of their own and no reason beyond anger and disapproval of their very existence. You have a race originating from a continent that has been plundered by the world. Its resources stolen by multinationals and governments, its land historically colonized by Europe.

I love how you totally ignore that the supposedly "oppressed" African nations that were colonized had a much higher standard of lliving as a result of the colonization.


We are beyond such times, but that does not mean there exists no psychological recoil. Undoubtedly, the segregation and slavery of the past are what brought many African Americans to poverty, and like a genetic disease that poverty passed on from generation to generation, still hampering the race today. The question I have is, how can one have self-esteem when other races parade in success, but yours has nothing to show but some sort of inferiority? How can one have self-esteem and a will to excel if they are largely born poor and largely expected to fail?

Well, how did East Asian Americans and Jewish people go from being discriminated against and impoverished to being wealthier than whites.

I wonder if it has anything to do with them having higher average intellligences.


Upon all this, we have Conservatives like Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich that would call them a race of food stamps and laziness? Upon all this, there are people like jimtimmy who would then use the result of injustice past to assume them inherently inferior?

They are not inherently inferior. Their inherent skills are less suited for the modern free market economy than are other races. That is all there is to it.


No, this is so wrong. If you have ever agreed with Jimtimmy, if you have ever so much as entertained the validity of his morally callous views, if you have ever supported him, if you have ever sympathized with him (and that goes for everyone from Darkkermit, to 16kadams, to Reasoning), come back to Earth, there's a dark and dismal shadow of history that you must not undermine.

Wow. You are really worried that some people might learn a little bit about modern science.


You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Hey, you're the one who has views that are scientifically ignorant as Creationism.
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16kadams
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1/29/2012 12:00:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:53:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:43:59 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:37:40 PM, 000ike wrote:
are you aware that environment changes IQ by well over 15 points? some studies reported 17, others recorded 20....

In adults? Source?

" Various tests have shown that there is a socio-economic link to IQ as people who are better off financially score 17 point higher on IQ tests than those financially disadvantaged people who take the same exam" (http://allpsych.com...)

well duh, smart people will get better jobs.

" Poverty alone,the researchers found, accounted for 52 percent of that difference, cutting it to 7 points. Controlling for the children's home environment reduced the difference by another 28 percent, to a statistically insignificant 3 points -- in essence, eliminating the gap altogether."
(http://www.ipr.northwestern.edu...)

Intelligence is related to DNA http://gizmodo.com...
http://www.plosone.org...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
jimtimmy
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1/29/2012 12:00:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:55:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:53:48 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:53:17 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
I have no clue why you would make this thread.

You must really want to start another flame war.

if you don't like the thread, you're welcome to leave. The truth will be heard, no matter how much you try to cloud it.

You wrote like half of it about me...

It's hard to ignore a thread that mentions you by name numerous times...

Just admit that you were bored and wanted to start a flame war with me...
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Reasoning
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1/29/2012 12:01:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:53:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
" Poverty alone,the researchers found, accounted for 52 percent of that difference, cutting it to 7 points. Controlling for the children's home environment reduced the difference by another 28 percent, to a statistically insignificant 3 points -- in essence, eliminating the gap altogether."
(http://www.ipr.northwestern.edu...)

This study is from birth to age 5. No one is disputing that you can temporarily raise IQ during childhood, only that these effects fade out by late adolescents.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Reasoning
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1/29/2012 12:02:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
And by adolescents I meant adolescence. :P
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
16kadams
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1/29/2012 12:02:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/29/2012 12:00:35 AM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:55:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:53:48 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:53:17 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
I have no clue why you would make this thread.

You must really want to start another flame war.

if you don't like the thread, you're welcome to leave. The truth will be heard, no matter how much you try to cloud it.


You wrote like half of it about me...

It's hard to ignore a thread that mentions you by name numerous times...

Just admit that you were bored and wanted to start a flame war with me...

I mentions you in 2 parts. Then me and a few other people for agreeing with you once
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
000ike
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1/29/2012 12:03:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:56:48 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:53:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
" Various tests have shown that there is a socio-economic link to IQ as people who are better off financially score 17 point higher on IQ tests than those financially disadvantaged people who take the same exam" (http://allpsych.com...)

Well, duh. People who are smarter will tend to earn more money than people who are dumber. That's a causal relation, but a causal relation in the opposite direction of what you seem to believe. The adoption studies show no effect of upbringing on IQ upon reaching late adolescents.

You're frustrating me. Okay, lets look at twins. Environment should not make a difference on twins right?

"When researchers compared the IQs of 7-year olds from affluent backgrounds, variation between twins was huge- as expected. Poverty effectively erased an individual's genetic contribution towards intelligence; thus, twins from low socioeconomic standing bunched together on the IQ spectrum, and twins from high socioeconomic standing fanned out according to their innate genetic potentials. "

Poverty causes low IQ. Low IQ does not cause poverty. For God sake how many rich rappers do we have? Yeah, I'm sure 50 cent has an IQ of 140. Being rich is 40% due to education 60% due to a bit of luck.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
000ike
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1/29/2012 12:04:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/29/2012 12:03:21 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:56:48 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:53:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
" Various tests have shown that there is a socio-economic link to IQ as people who are better off financially score 17 point higher on IQ tests than those financially disadvantaged people who take the same exam" (http://allpsych.com...)

Well, duh. People who are smarter will tend to earn more money than people who are dumber. That's a causal relation, but a causal relation in the opposite direction of what you seem to believe. The adoption studies show no effect of upbringing on IQ upon reaching late adolescents.

You're frustrating me. Okay, lets look at twins. Environment should not make a difference on twins right?

"When researchers compared the IQs of 7-year olds from affluent backgrounds, variation between twins was huge- as expected. Poverty effectively erased an individual's genetic contribution towards intelligence; thus, twins from low socioeconomic standing bunched together on the IQ spectrum, and twins from high socioeconomic standing fanned out according to their innate genetic potentials. "

Poverty causes low IQ. Low IQ does not cause poverty. For God sake how many rich rappers do we have? Yeah, I'm sure 50 cent has an IQ of 140. Being rich is 40% due to education 60% due to a bit of luck.

forgot the source, its this: http://www.3quarksdaily.com...
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
jimtimmy
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1/29/2012 12:04:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/29/2012 12:02:25 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/29/2012 12:00:35 AM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:55:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:53:48 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:53:17 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
I have no clue why you would make this thread.

You must really want to start another flame war.

if you don't like the thread, you're welcome to leave. The truth will be heard, no matter how much you try to cloud it.


You wrote like half of it about me...

It's hard to ignore a thread that mentions you by name numerous times...

Just admit that you were bored and wanted to start a flame war with me...

I mentions you in 2 parts. Then me and a few other people for agreeing with you once

I know. It really is absurd how 000ike and co. talk about how I need to be banned for my conduct and then turn around and make threads attacking me.

This is not honest discourse. If 000ike wants to argue, that is fine. But, if I were to make threads solely attacking 000ike and co, I would have already been banned.
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Reasoning
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1/29/2012 12:07:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/29/2012 12:03:21 AM, 000ike wrote:
You're frustrating me. Okay, lets look at twins. Environment should not make a difference on twins right?

It will, until they reach late adolescence.

"When researchers compared the IQs of 7-year olds from affluent backgrounds, variation between twins was huge- as expected. Poverty effectively erased an individual's genetic contribution towards intelligence; thus, twins from low socioeconomic standing bunched together on the IQ spectrum, and twins from high socioeconomic standing fanned out according to their innate genetic potentials. "

Seven years old is not late adolescence.

Low IQ does not cause poverty.

You don't think having a low IQ would harm your job prospects?

For God sake how many rich rappers do we have?

A handful. Do you not know what "on average" means?
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
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1/29/2012 12:07:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/29/2012 12:03:21 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:56:48 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:53:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
" Various tests have shown that there is a socio-economic link to IQ as people who are better off financially score 17 point higher on IQ tests than those financially disadvantaged people who take the same exam" (http://allpsych.com...)

Well, duh. People who are smarter will tend to earn more money than people who are dumber. That's a causal relation, but a causal relation in the opposite direction of what you seem to believe. The adoption studies show no effect of upbringing on IQ upon reaching late adolescents.

You're frustrating me. Okay, lets look at twins. Environment should not make a difference on twins right?

"When researchers compared the IQs of 7-year olds from affluent backgrounds, variation between twins was huge- as expected. Poverty effectively erased an individual's genetic contribution towards intelligence; thus, twins from low socioeconomic standing bunched together on the IQ spectrum, and twins from high socioeconomic standing fanned out according to their innate genetic potentials. "

Poverty causes low IQ. Low IQ does not cause poverty. For God sake how many rich rappers do we have? Yeah, I'm sure 50 cent has an IQ of 140. Being rich is 40% due to education 60% due to a bit of luck.

That last part is wrong in my opinion, my dad did not get a 100% on a dental school entrance exam through luck, education + brains did it, he didn't study much btw, then he got into a med school became the best eye surgeon in NM and is the president of the opthomology association of NM. That =/= luck.
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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1/29/2012 12:08:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/29/2012 12:07:35 AM, Reasoning wrote:
At 1/29/2012 12:03:21 AM, 000ike wrote:
You're frustrating me. Okay, lets look at twins. Environment should not make a difference on twins right?

It will, until they reach late adolescence.

"When researchers compared the IQs of 7-year olds from affluent backgrounds, variation between twins was huge- as expected. Poverty effectively erased an individual's genetic contribution towards intelligence; thus, twins from low socioeconomic standing bunched together on the IQ spectrum, and twins from high socioeconomic standing fanned out according to their innate genetic potentials. "

Seven years old is not late adolescence.

Low IQ does not cause poverty.

You don't think having a low IQ would harm your job prospects?

For God sake how many rich rappers do we have?

A handful. Do you not know what "on average" means?

I think we need to have some kind of class on averages for all of the egalitarians on here.
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