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NWO Screwing Historical Analysis

Wnope
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2/9/2012 8:35:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The factual problems with attributing world events to a single agency (ex. Illuminati, NWO) has gotten attention recently, but not the epistemological consequences.

I would like to give an example of just how much a belief in NWO can obscure how world politics really works: the invasion of Iraq.

This has always been a big one for NWO. It provides evidence in however many ways you like of how the NWO wants the world to turn out.

The problem with this perspective is you can then only understand the Bush Administration and it's political environment in terms of a single dominant agency (Illuminati/NWO) with an unified motive (ex. oil stabilization, overthrowing guys we don't like, whatever conspiracy you like).

The reality is that the Bush administration, pre 9/11, was considering TWO plans for how to invade and divy Iraq. One plan, supported by Neocons, was to use Iraqi oil to bust OPECs hold on the market. This would be done through full privitization of resources.

However, the oil industries didn't want OPECs stranglehold broken, so they convinced Cheney et. al. to allow oil to be nationally controlled as opposed to auctioned off by America after the war.

To sum up:" Many neo-conservatives are people who do have certain ideological beliefs about markets, about democracy, about this, that and the other. International oil companies, without exception, are very pragmatic, commercial organizations. They don't have a theology. They don't have a doctrine. They are going to do what is in the best interest of their shareholders."

These two factions would be linked by conspiracists as parts of the same NWO. However, this makes no analytical or historical sense.

Viewing politics through a "single agency" perspective oversimplifies the REAL problems with the world to shadow boxing with resurrected names of long-dead cults and quote-mined phrases.

Those who say they are fighting an NWO only help the actual conspirators by refusing to address political realities.

http://www.gregpalast.com...
http://www.atimes.com...
http://news.bbc.co.uk...
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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2/9/2012 9:01:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Cheney wasn't bribed. My family have high political connections (well my uncle does, well uncle[s] do), a we do not think Cheney was bribed. He may have been misguided my advisers but politically corrupt no.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Wnope
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2/9/2012 9:06:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 9:01:33 PM, 16kadams wrote:
Cheney wasn't bribed. My family have high political connections (well my uncle does, well uncle[s] do), a we do not think Cheney was bribed. He may have been misguided my advisers but politically corrupt no.

Who said anything about bribed?

There were two special interests. Oil won over neocons.
16kadams
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2/9/2012 10:04:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 9:06:53 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 2/9/2012 9:01:33 PM, 16kadams wrote:
Cheney wasn't bribed. My family have high political connections (well my uncle does, well uncle[s] do), a we do not think Cheney was bribed. He may have been misguided my advisers but politically corrupt no.

Who said anything about bribed?

There were two special interests. Oil won over neocons.

is that good?
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
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2/9/2012 10:04:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
wait a minute source for that part?
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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2/9/2012 10:18:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
That's pretty much my take on it too, Wnope, and it for the most part mirrors Ron Paul as well. Do I believe that the Council on Foreign Relations, the Bilderberg's, the Trilateral Commission, etc exist? Sure I do. Do I think they have aspirations in mind towards increased globalization? Absolutely. Do I think it has disasterous consequences to soveriegnty? Without question.

The problem is that when these conspiracy theorists get a hold on these stories, there are only smatterings of truth which distort the full picture. As a consequence, it turns a legitimate threat into goddamn comicbook villains. Infowars bring up some good points, but then destroy their own credibility by being retarded about the whole thing.

They're doing untold harm to what could be a very meaningful message by massively overstating or embellishing things. This reduces them, in the eyes of many, as crockpots. So now some people have no fear of the CFR's power when they should, because Infowars has created, what I like to call, "The G.I. Effect."

In the cartoon G.I. Joe, their arch nemesis was "Cobra." Cobra knew they were an evil cabal bent on global domination. They had a unified message and the only subversive group to their goals was G.I. Joe. In real life, everybody thinks they're ideologically the good guy, to include what has been called the NWO. To think that the chairmen of the CFR agree on all points and have intentionally nefarious plans is just stupid.

To the conspiracy theorists: If you want people to take your message seriously, do some real research and critically analyze the situation. Not every influential person that has died was the result of some secret assassination plot. Not every act of terrorism is really just the Illuminati "pulling strings." There's a decent message embedded in the 12,000 lbs of bullsh*t... shovel up the bullsh*t. It's simply convoluting a decent overall message.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
PARADIGM_L0ST
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2/9/2012 10:19:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 10:04:07 PM, Volkov wrote:
There's also the whole bring-democracy-to-Iraq thing! Yay!:

Nothing says Democracy quite like offering it at the barrel of a gun
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Volkov
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2/9/2012 10:24:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'd like to add to Paradigm's post that if the NWO and so on really did exist, they are possibly the worst kept secret in the world, because EVERYONE knows about their nefarious plans for world domination, and the main pushers of these ideas - Alex Jones, David Icke, and the like - all live happy and free lives, spreading this message over vast media markets across the globe.

Which makes sense given that governments are fairly incompetent at keeping large scale secrets, secret...

OMG the NWO exists! Proof is in the incompetence!
thett3
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2/9/2012 10:31:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Lol @ this whole thread.

Wnope is just one of the sheep hired by the global fascist dictators to keep those of us who know the truth from spreading it to you.
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Volkov
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2/9/2012 10:37:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 10:31:51 PM, thett3 wrote:
Lol @ this whole thread.

Wnope is just one of the sheep hired by the global fascist dictators to keep those of us who know the truth from spreading it to you.

Think he makes good money doing that? I bet he does.
GeoLaureate8
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2/10/2012 12:54:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Illuminati is a hierarchical pyramid structure, a beauracracy, and it's also a network of secret societies, bamkers, and political figures. Its compartmentalization and many people in the compartments are kept in the dark so the left hand doesnt know what the right hand is doing.

There is no unified motive amongst the different organizations, except those at the very top, if that.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Wnope
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2/10/2012 3:09:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 12:54:45 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
The Illuminati is a hierarchical pyramid structure, a beauracracy, and it's also a network of secret societies, bamkers, and political figures. Its compartmentalization and many people in the compartments are kept in the dark so the left hand doesnt know what the right hand is doing.

There is no unified motive amongst the different organizations, except those at the very top, if that.

So...it's completely unfalsifiable?

If a conspiracy has a single motive behind it, it's evidence for Illuminati. If there are multiple actors and multiple motives, Illuminati still did it.

Is there any new information (other than simply discounting previous information) that would lead you to believe there is no single organization "at the top?"
GeoLaureate8
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2/10/2012 3:24:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 3:09:41 AM, Wnope wrote:
At 2/10/2012 12:54:45 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
The Illuminati is a hierarchical pyramid structure, a beauracracy, and it's also a network of secret societies, bamkers, and political figures. Its compartmentalization and many people in the compartments are kept in the dark so the left hand doesnt know what the right hand is doing.

There is no unified motive amongst the different organizations, except those at the very top, if that.

So...it's completely unfalsifiable?

If a conspiracy has a single motive behind it, it's evidence for Illuminati. If there are multiple actors and multiple motives, Illuminati still did it.

Is there any new information (other than simply discounting previous information) that would lead you to believe there is no single organization "at the top?"

People put too much stock in the word Illuminati as if its some concrete organization with official membership cards. The Illuminati, even admitted by my favorite conspiracy researchers, is a blanket term.

But no, its not unfalsifiable because were dealing with tangible claims about things in this world and can be investigated and have been investigated. And the results are in. It exists.

Are there a group of global elites? Yes.
Are many of them related by blood? Yes.
Are many of them connected to secret societies, the occult or global organizations? Yes.
Have these global elites explicitly promoted a one world agenda as mentioned in the original Illuminati doctrines? Yes.

There is tangible evidence to support all these facts.

.
.
.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Wnope
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2/11/2012 12:57:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/10/2012 3:24:14 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 2/10/2012 3:09:41 AM, Wnope wrote:
At 2/10/2012 12:54:45 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
The Illuminati is a hierarchical pyramid structure, a beauracracy, and it's also a network of secret societies, bamkers, and political figures. Its compartmentalization and many people in the compartments are kept in the dark so the left hand doesnt know what the right hand is doing.

There is no unified motive amongst the different organizations, except those at the very top, if that.

So...it's completely unfalsifiable?

If a conspiracy has a single motive behind it, it's evidence for Illuminati. If there are multiple actors and multiple motives, Illuminati still did it.

Is there any new information (other than simply discounting previous information) that would lead you to believe there is no single organization "at the top?"

People put too much stock in the word Illuminati as if its some concrete organization with official membership cards. The Illuminati, even admitted by my favorite conspiracy researchers, is a blanket term.

But no, its not unfalsifiable because were dealing with tangible claims about things in this world and can be investigated and have been investigated. And the results are in. It exists.

Are there a group of global elites? Yes.
Are many of them related by blood? Yes.
Are many of them connected to secret societies, the occult or global organizations? Yes.
Have these global elites explicitly promoted a one world agenda as mentioned in the original Illuminati doctrines? Yes.

There is tangible evidence to support all these facts.



That's known as induction. I'm asking if there is any way that you could intellectually falsify your conspiracy theory with the introduction of new evidence other than negating previous evidence.

If I put forward the hypothesis "Illuminati is responsible for Bush's decision to invade Iraq" then there is no evidence which could support the null hypothesis. No matter how decentralized the decision is, you can claim that "Illuminati" is spread just thin enough so that Bush did what Illuminati wanted even if Illuminati never told him (or even him knowing it exists).
PARADIGM_L0ST
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2/11/2012 1:04:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
NWO conspiracy theorists know they've hot rock bottom when even the producer of "Zeitgeist" rips on it.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
CosmicAlfonzo
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2/12/2012 7:26:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Illuminati is an inept joke of an organization. It's made up of a bunch of members who are all out to kill eachother.

Their influence is great, but the power they have is exaggerated. They will never fully be capable of wrestling with disorder.

The Erisian front is what truly pulls the strings. We aren't organized in the traditional sense of the word(you know, by the definition), but we aren't out to kill eachother.

Plus, our hyjinks are more entertaining.

Everytime you see graffiti on the wall, it was us. Everytime you see a protest, it was us. Everytime a law is broken, it was us. The world is ruled by the few who don't take these games seriously, and know that it is just a game. By the rules you are used to playing by, we are the lowest, the scum... but our influence is greater than the fools who believe they have the power.

Eris is the ruler of this world, and the New World Order is a part of the aneristic illusion! Don't be fooled by those who have persuaded the majority that they have power. The emperor isn't wearing any clothes!
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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2/13/2012 12:34:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/11/2012 1:04:00 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
NWO conspiracy theorists know they've hot rock bottom when even the producer of "Zeitgeist" rips on it.

Yeah, he was never a NWO proponent. He has a skewed view on things but is spot on with regards to some things. For example he used to support the Venus Project utopia idea and then backed down from it after he realized it was nonsense.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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2/13/2012 10:40:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Geo, out of curiosity, what is a non-unheard-of conspiracy theory that you do not believe in?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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2/13/2012 10:53:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/13/2012 10:40:49 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Geo, out of curiosity, what is a non-unheard-of conspiracy theory that you do not believe in?

Fake moon landing.
Satanic conspiracy.
Jewish conspiracies.
Dan Brown conspiracies.
Bible code.
Arab Islam conspiracies.
New Age conspiracy.
Lochness/Bigfoot nonsense.
Anti-Christ conspiracies.
Red scare communist conspiracies.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
FREEDO
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2/13/2012 11:08:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/13/2012 10:53:43 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 2/13/2012 10:40:49 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Geo, out of curiosity, what is a non-unheard-of conspiracy theory that you do not believe in?

Fake moon landing.
Satanic conspiracy.
Jewish conspiracies.
Dan Brown conspiracies.
Bible code.
Arab Islam conspiracies.
New Age conspiracy.
Lochness/Bigfoot nonsense.
Anti-Christ conspiracies.
Red scare communist conspiracies.

Fantastic. I now know which ones to support so they will not go unrepresented on DDO.
I especially adore Satanic conspiracies.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord