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Politics is Never Any Better or Worse

FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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2/17/2012 11:33:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
In terms of the degree of suffering caused or prevented by a political system, for every advantage, there is a disadvantage. For every disadvantage, an advantage. All is Zenarchy.

Raises taxes. Increase social services.

Cut social services. Lower taxes.

Kill people. Those people no longer do any good or bad things.

Save people. Those people will do good and bad things that otherwise would not have happened.

Create Socialist society. Increase popularity of Capitalism.

Create Capitalist society. Increase popularity of Socialism.

Destroy the economy. Increase natural selection. (the majority of fortune 500 companies where creates in economic downturns)

Improve economy. Decrease natural selection.

Limit freedom. Create freedom fighters.

Safeguard freedom. Create sheep.

It goes on and on and on and on.

Every dissonant and protester is a Fascist. Every cop and politician is an Anarchist. The true political spectrum is between caring and not caring.

All true change in suffering is apolitical.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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2/17/2012 11:50:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Interesting
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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2/18/2012 12:04:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/17/2012 11:50:22 PM, 16kadams wrote:
Interesting

Agreed. Not entirely sure I agree though. But it is something to ponder
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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2/18/2012 12:10:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
One could argue, though, this chain is good . Lowering taxes = less social programs, in my eyes yay! So really it can improve, but the cycle is infact never ending.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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2/18/2012 12:14:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 12:10:36 AM, 16kadams wrote:
One could argue, though, this chain is good . Lowering taxes = less social programs, in my eyes yay! So really it can improve, but the cycle is infact never ending.

Yes, as I said, it goes on and on. What are the effects of social programs. Are they all good? Are they all bad?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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2/18/2012 12:15:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 12:14:04 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 2/18/2012 12:10:36 AM, 16kadams wrote:
One could argue, though, this chain is good . Lowering taxes = less social programs, in my eyes yay! So really it can improve, but the cycle is infact never ending.

Yes, as I said, it goes on and on. What are the effects of social programs. Are they all good? Are they all bad?

They need reforms, but it depends on the circumstance too.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
imabench
Posts: 21,229
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2/18/2012 12:34:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
+1 to every post in this thread
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16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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2/18/2012 12:35:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 12:34:21 AM, imabench wrote:
+1 to every post in this thread

. :)
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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2/18/2012 5:58:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm sorry but that doesn't make any bloody sense at all.

First off, you're generalizing causes and effects. Not every tax rise coincides with an increase in social programs, or vice versa; not every socialist system has "increased the popularity of capitalism," or vice versa, among the population; not every time you "limit freedom" does it "create" freedom fighters; and so on. This is over-simplification.

Secondly, "all true change in suffering is apolitical" - this is a meaningless statement, as far as I'm concerned. Either clarify this or go back to the drawing board.
UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
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2/18/2012 7:05:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/18/2012 5:58:32 AM, Volkov wrote:
I'm sorry but that doesn't make any bloody sense at all.

First off, you're generalizing causes and effects. Not every tax rise coincides with an increase in social programs, or vice versa; not every socialist system has "increased the popularity of capitalism," or vice versa, among the population; not every time you "limit freedom" does it "create" freedom fighters; and so on. This is over-simplification.

Secondly, "all true change in suffering is apolitical" - this is a meaningless statement, as far as I'm concerned. Either clarify this or go back to the drawing board.

+1.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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2/18/2012 8:28:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
You error seems to be in supposing that counting changes makes them equal. For example, compare North Korea with South Korea. the basic culture was the same until two political systems made them different. In North Korea, there is the supposed advantage that most decisions are made for you, freeing you from the urden of the decision making process. In south Korea there is the advantage of being able to make many more decisions, and therefore pick what is best for you.

So is the score tied one to one? No, not even close. Your list is rank with unequal choices. It's way better to have freedom than freedom fighters, etc. The whole argument is silly. No one in his right mind doubts that south Korea is better than North Korea, or that free societies are better than authoritarian ones.
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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2/18/2012 8:38:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/17/2012 11:33:11 PM, FREEDO wrote:
In terms of the degree of suffering caused or prevented by a political system, for every advantage, there is a disadvantage. For every disadvantage, an advantage. All is Zenarchy.

Raises taxes. Increase social services.

Cut social services. Lower taxes.

Kill people. Those people no longer do any good or bad things.

Save people. Those people will do good and bad things that otherwise would not have happened.

Create Socialist society. Increase popularity of Capitalism.

Create Capitalist society. Increase popularity of Socialism.

Destroy the economy. Increase natural selection. (the majority of fortune 500 companies where creates in economic downturns)

Improve economy. Decrease natural selection.

Limit freedom. Create freedom fighters.

Safeguard freedom. Create sheep.

It goes on and on and on and on.

Every dissonant and protester is a Fascist. Every cop and politician is an Anarchist. The true political spectrum is between caring and not caring.

All true change in suffering is apolitical.

Untrue, it is often better and sometimes worse.