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French Election

Stephen_Hawkins
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2/19/2012 8:49:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Who will win? Sarkozy, Hollande, Le Pen or Boyreux (forgot his name, might have got that one wrong)?
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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2/19/2012 8:58:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Lol, look at their parties!
Sarcozy (Union for a Popular Movement),
Hollande (Socialist Party),
Bayrou (Democratic Movement Party - socially liberal),
and then Le Pen (National Front Party - far right)
http://en.wikipedia.org...

You gotta love the French.

Hollande appears to be polling higher than Sarcozy, so perhaps he'll win http://en.wikipedia.org...
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Reasoning
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2/19/2012 3:52:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
From American Renaissance June 2002 issue:

"Mr. Le Pen appealed to many voters because he was the only candidate to speak bluntly about the issue that most troubles the French: crime. Hard as it may be for Americans to believe, Paris now has a higher crime rate than New York City. There are Arab housing projects so tough and dangerous the police never go near them. Burning cars in the street has become something of a national sport. Virtually every square inch of wall in Paris outside the tourist areas is covered with le tagging, the spray-paint graffiti that used to make New York so ugly. No fewer than 58 percent of voters said crime was their biggest worry, and this was followed by 39 percent who said unemployment was their biggest concern.

Mr. Le Pen blamed both problems on immigrants, many of whom work for sub-standard wages and many of whom commit crimes. Ever since Sept. 11, and the realization that Muslims intent on murder had been living freely in Europe, a sense of siege has settled upon the French. The Socialists, for whom it was considered 'racist' even to talk about crime, left the issue almost entirely to Mr. Le Pen and Mr. Chirac."
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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2/19/2012 4:35:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Mr. Pen is the most reasonable person with the best political platform out of all those candidates.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Reasoning
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2/19/2012 4:37:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 4:35:05 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Mr. Pen is the most reasonable person with the best political platform out of all those candidates.

Agreed. Mr. Le Pen is the only candidate that will actually take on the problem of crime and unemployment in a meaningful way.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
000ike
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2/19/2012 4:38:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 4:35:05 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Mr. Pen is the most reasonable person with the best political platform out of all those candidates.

Le Pen is a woman
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Lordknukle
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2/19/2012 4:39:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 4:38:03 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 2/19/2012 4:35:05 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Mrs. Pen is the most reasonable person with the best political platform out of all those candidates.

Le Pen is a woman

Fixed.

Does it make a difference? The policies are the same.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Reasoning
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2/19/2012 4:39:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 4:38:03 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 2/19/2012 4:35:05 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Mr. Pen is the most reasonable person with the best political platform out of all those candidates.

Le Pen is a woman

Ooh. I didn't know it was a different Le Pen. She must be related to Jean-Marie, though, no? Americans are quite ignorant of international politics.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Reasoning
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2/19/2012 4:41:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ah, she is Jean-Marie's daughter. http://en.wikipedia.org...
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
UnStupendousMan
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2/20/2012 9:00:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 9:03:49 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
Sarcozy is probably the worst. Then again the french have no good options. Pretty much like us back in 2010

Or the Americans now.
Volkov
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2/20/2012 9:35:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Le Pen and the National Front, while moderated out for necessity of successful politics, really remains a haven for white supremacists. I'm not kidding either - they no longer explicitly state such things, but you go to any local meeting of the FN, be prepared to listen to a barrage of racial epithets and blaming things on Muslims, blacks, and I wouldn't be surprised if Jews were thrown in there as well.

Granted, I've heard this in second-hand accounts only (a close relative of an ex), but its in line with their past. That's not shed so easily as people think.
Thaddeus
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2/20/2012 10:10:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/20/2012 9:00:25 AM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 2/19/2012 9:03:49 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
Sarcozy is probably the worst. Then again the french have no good options. Pretty much like us back in 2010

Or the Americans now.

Nah, you have Ron Paul.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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2/20/2012 10:31:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/20/2012 10:10:36 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 2/20/2012 9:00:25 AM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 2/19/2012 9:03:49 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
Sarcozy is probably the worst. Then again the french have no good options. Pretty much like us back in 2010

Or the Americans now.

Nah, you have Ron Paul.

But the Republican base rejects him for Romney on the basis that he is more electable,...which is rather idiotic because they could make any of those candidates electable by rallying behind them. Ron Paul is irrelevant to this election cycle, and usually when they're comparing the candidates on CNN, MSNBC, and FOX, they neglect to mention Paul entirely, and don't even put his picture on the screen along side the 3 other candidates.

Currently, they're even trying to rally behind Rick Santorum, the most bigoted individual to ever poison the discourse of the national stage with his religious nonsense. He's against contraceptives and birth control, yet, among the Christian community both those things are tolerated AND used. The Republican party is a hopeless cause right now.

Had Chris Christie entered this race, Obama would be in hot water.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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2/20/2012 10:35:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 4:37:52 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 2/19/2012 4:35:05 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Mr. Pen is the most reasonable person with the best political platform out of all those candidates.

Agreed. Mr. Le Pen is the only candidate that will actually take on the problem of crime and unemployment in a meaningful way.

You are CLEARLY a socialist.
Volkov
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2/20/2012 10:35:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/20/2012 10:31:36 AM, 000ike wrote:
usually when they're comparing the candidates on CNN, MSNBC, and FOX, they neglect to mention Paul entirely, and don't even put his picture on the screen along side the 3 other candidates.

Not once, ever, have I watched CNN (I rarely watch the other two) and not seen Ron Paul up there when it was relevant to do so. Not once.

I mean, he doesn't need to be mentioned EVERY SINGLE TIME. He is essentially irrelevant to the entire race, because he's not competing in primary states and even his own caucus state strategy is failing badly. This is like mentioning the Green Party candidate every time the Democrat and Republican get airtime. Unless they're having a major impact on the race, airtime can't be wasted.

What's the current dichotomy? Romney and Santorum, with Gingrich and Paul playing spoilers. On that basis alone, you should be able to figure out why he isn't getting much airtime.
royalpaladin
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2/20/2012 10:36:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 3:52:10 PM, Reasoning wrote:
From American Renaissance June 2002 issue:

"Mr. Le Pen appealed to many voters because he was the only candidate to speak bluntly about the issue that most troubles the French: crime. Hard as it may be for Americans to believe, Paris now has a higher crime rate than New York City. There are Arab housing projects so tough and dangerous the police never go near them. Burning cars in the street has become something of a national sport. Virtually every square inch of wall in Paris outside the tourist areas is covered with le tagging, the spray-paint graffiti that used to make New York so ugly. No fewer than 58 percent of voters said crime was their biggest worry, and this was followed by 39 percent who said unemployment was their biggest concern.

Mr. Le Pen blamed both problems on immigrants, many of whom work for sub-standard wages and many of whom commit crimes. Ever since Sept. 11, and the realization that Muslims intent on murder had been living freely in Europe, a sense of siege has settled upon the French. The Socialists, for whom it was considered 'racist' even to talk about crime, left the issue almost entirely to Mr. Le Pen and Mr. Chirac."

By the way, you quoted a racist toerag magazine that nobody but right-winged bigots read. This journal is worse than Fox News is.
16kadams
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2/20/2012 10:38:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/20/2012 10:31:36 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 2/20/2012 10:10:36 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 2/20/2012 9:00:25 AM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 2/19/2012 9:03:49 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
Sarcozy is probably the worst. Then again the french have no good options. Pretty much like us back in 2010

Or the Americans now.

Nah, you have Ron Paul.

But the Republican base rejects him for Romney on the basis that he is more electable,...which is rather idiotic because they could make any of those candidates electable by rallying behind them. Ron Paul is irrelevant to this election cycle, and usually when they're comparing the candidates on CNN, MSNBC, and FOX, they neglect to mention Paul entirely, and don't even put his picture on the screen along side the 3 other candidates.

This


Currently, they're even trying to rally behind Rick Santorum, the most bigoted individual to ever poison the discourse of the national stage with his religious nonsense. He's against contraceptives and birth control, yet, among the Christian community both those things are tolerated AND used. The Republican party is a hopeless cause right now.

Because his religion tells him so. The priests are against it but the people use it. He is not asking to ban contraception, well he is when it comes to abortion, but just wants to end federal funding.


Had Chris Christie entered this race, Obama would be in hot water.

lol chis would not be invited to the debates (he would break the stage) xD. Id you didn't notice I was kidding...
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thett3
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2/20/2012 10:59:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
It's interesting to me how here even calling something/someone socialist is taboo, where as there they have an actual relevant socialist party.
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Lordknukle
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2/20/2012 10:59:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/20/2012 10:36:27 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
By the way, you quoted a racist toerag magazine that nobody but right-winged bigots read. This journal is worse than Fox News is.

I love how any article piece that doesn't support your view automatically means that it is written by right wing bigots.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Reasoning
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2/20/2012 11:02:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/20/2012 9:35:18 AM, Volkov wrote:
Le Pen and the National Front, while moderated out for necessity of successful politics, really remains a haven for white supremacists. I'm not kidding either - they no longer explicitly state such things, but you go to any local meeting of the FN, be prepared to listen to a barrage of racial epithets and blaming things on Muslims, blacks, and I wouldn't be surprised if Jews were thrown in there as well.

Muslims are well known to commit a disproportionately large amount of crimes in France. 70% of French inmates are Muslim despite Muslims making up only 5-10 percent of the population.[1]

You can stamp your foot and cry racism or religious intolerance if you want, but it doesn't change the facts.

1 http://www.presstv.ir...
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Reasoning
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2/20/2012 11:02:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/20/2012 10:35:15 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
You are CLEARLY a socialist.

You don't think crime and unemployment are issues a socialist should be concerned about?
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Volkov
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2/20/2012 11:22:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/20/2012 11:02:07 AM, Reasoning wrote:
At 2/20/2012 9:35:18 AM, Volkov wrote:
Le Pen and the National Front, while moderated out for necessity of successful politics, really remains a haven for white supremacists. I'm not kidding either - they no longer explicitly state such things, but you go to any local meeting of the FN, be prepared to listen to a barrage of racial epithets and blaming things on Muslims, blacks, and I wouldn't be surprised if Jews were thrown in there as well.

Muslims are well known to commit a disproportionately large amount of crimes in France. 70% of French inmates are Muslim despite Muslims making up only 5-10 percent of the population.[1]

You can stamp your foot and cry racism or religious intolerance if you want, but it doesn't change the facts.

1 http://www.presstv.ir...

Quick few things:

1. The French prison system doesn't actually keep demographic information, so there is no certainty that 70% of inmates are Muslim. The proper estimate is between 60% to 70%, as given by some Muslim leaders and sociologists. What percentages are in-prison converts, newly arrived immigrants, or second generation, is unknown. There really isn't a hilarious amount of information to draw much more than general conclusions off of.

2. This is no way proves the FN's underlying ideology - that immigrants are inherently bad people here to ruin France and take it over. It does prove that France's immigrants, who are disproportionately poorer than other demographics, are more prone to violence. Just as are African Americans. There is a big link between poverty and incarceration rates, and unfortunately there is also a big link between poverty and ethnicity, even in Western countries. Of course, Le Pen won't say something like that, either the senior or Marine, because that only shows France's social system is BS, not that immigrants aren't evil.

3. Other countries - UK, Canada, and the US in particular - have high, if not higher, rates of Muslim immigration, yet don't have that kind of statistic (though it is true that Muslims are overrepresented in prisons in all, just as Aboriginals are in the Canadian penal system, and so on). So clearly, there is something within France (and likely Germany as well) that causes such disproportionate statistics to exist.

4. Now, wouldn't it be a fantastic question if we found out why, before we swallow Le Pen's bull? I know you're a race supremacist, but come on.
Stephen_Hawkins
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2/20/2012 4:19:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
How come everyone is criticising Le Pen for being socialist? Hollande leads the SOCIALIST PARTY. The difference is, he's a good leader and his policies make sense. Also, as Sarkozy is hated by the voting population, it will be close to see if he gets into the supplementary round.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

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UnStupendousMan
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2/20/2012 4:28:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/20/2012 10:10:36 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 2/20/2012 9:00:25 AM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 2/19/2012 9:03:49 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
Sarcozy is probably the worst. Then again the french have no good options. Pretty much like us back in 2010

Or the Americans now.

Nah, you have Ron Paul.

I don't like Paul; especially his economic policies. I see scary things several years down the line if he gets elected.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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2/20/2012 4:34:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/20/2012 4:28:05 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 2/20/2012 10:10:36 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 2/20/2012 9:00:25 AM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 2/19/2012 9:03:49 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
Sarcozy is probably the worst. Then again the french have no good options. Pretty much like us back in 2010

Or the Americans now.

Nah, you have Ron Paul.

I don't like Paul; especially his economic policies. I see scary things several years down the line if he gets elected.

He won't be alive several years down the line, and his son does not have the chutzpah to be a politician.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Reasoning
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2/20/2012 7:07:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/20/2012 4:34:39 PM, 000ike wrote:
He won't be alive several years down the line, and his son does not have the chutzpah to be a politician.

One of his sons is already a politician.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
DanT
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2/20/2012 7:15:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 8:49:36 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
Who will win? Sarkozy, Hollande, Le Pen or Boyreux (forgot his name, might have got that one wrong)?

Hollande won't win, last year Dominque Strauss-Kahn blew it for their party, with his shame.

The National Front and Democratic Movement are too small compared to the Union for a Popular Movement, so I think Sarkozy will win.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Volkov
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2/20/2012 7:18:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/20/2012 7:15:32 PM, DanT wrote:
Hollande won't win, last year Dominque Strauss-Kahn blew it for their party, with his shame.

You clearly have no clue what the French are like. Most of them don't care what DSK did. In fact, it's almost normal.

The National Front and Democratic Movement are too small compared to the Union for a Popular Movement, so I think Sarkozy will win.

You underestimate the power of crappy incumbency.
DanT
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2/20/2012 7:21:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/20/2012 7:18:05 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 2/20/2012 7:15:32 PM, DanT wrote:
Hollande won't win, last year Dominque Strauss-Kahn blew it for their party, with his shame.

You clearly have no clue what the French are like. Most of them don't care what DSK did. In fact, it's almost normal.

The National Front and Democratic Movement are too small compared to the Union for a Popular Movement, so I think Sarkozy will win.

You underestimate the power of crappy incumbency.

That really says something about the French than.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle