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Bye Bye Anarchy

jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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2/21/2012 11:59:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I would just like to say that I am no longer an anarchist. I now consider myself a conservative with libertarian leanings.

I still believe in minimal government interference in the economy, but I also believe in a more imperialistic foreign policy and some level of social control from the state.

This shift came from my seeing the state as an necessary institution. The state originally rose in anarchy, and it would come back if we had anarchy again. Plus, I simply do not think anarchists have a valid case that defense and law can be provided on a pure non state free market.

So, for those purposes, I do think we need a state. However, I think it should be extremely limited by nature.

I think it should require a high level of consensus to change anything, so 51% of the population cannot impose their will on the other 49% through the state.

I think regulation should be virtually non existant in an economic sense. As far as taxation goes, a low head tax would be optimal. However, a flat tax would be okay as well.

I still oppose the welfare state, but I would be more okay with it if it were structured in a more market oriented way (much like Singapore).

That is all.
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FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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2/22/2012 12:13:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I have to say, Anarchists usually change but I've never seen one go from conservative and then go back again.
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jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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2/22/2012 12:29:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/22/2012 12:13:00 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I have to say, Anarchists usually change but I've never seen one go from conservative and then go back again.

I will say that my world outlook is dramatically different than it was before my stint as an anarchist.
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Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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2/22/2012 1:13:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Have you watched this jimtimmy?
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
jimtimmy
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2/22/2012 1:19:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/22/2012 1:13:14 AM, Reasoning wrote:
Have you watched this jimtimmy?

I hadn't seen that specific video. Although, I was familiar with that debate. I think Fringe had some viable solutions, but I was ultimatley not convinced.
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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2/22/2012 1:28:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/22/2012 1:19:14 AM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 2/22/2012 1:13:14 AM, Reasoning wrote:
Have you watched this jimtimmy?


I hadn't seen that specific video. Although, I was familiar with that debate. I think Fringe had some viable solutions, but I was ultimatley not convinced.

I must say fringe has probably some of the best arguments for anti-statism. I'm watching some of his videos. They're interesting to watch since they're informative, but it hasn't converted me to anarchy yet. It has changed my views of statism though. For example, I always thought that statism is just inevitable, that an anarchist society would eventually lead to a dictatorship. I know that is not necessarily the case. However, times have changed so the ability for a stateless society to form might be more difficult then it was in the past due to technological reasons (economic of scales of warfare).
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jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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2/22/2012 1:32:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/22/2012 1:28:26 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 2/22/2012 1:19:14 AM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 2/22/2012 1:13:14 AM, Reasoning wrote:
Have you watched this jimtimmy?


I hadn't seen that specific video. Although, I was familiar with that debate. I think Fringe had some viable solutions, but I was ultimatley not convinced.

I must say fringe has probably some of the best arguments for anti-statism. I'm watching some of his videos. They're interesting to watch since they're informative, but it hasn't converted me to anarchy yet. It has changed my views of statism though. For example, I always thought that statism is just inevitable, that an anarchist society would eventually lead to a dictatorship. I know that is not necessarily the case. However, times have changed so the ability for a stateless society to form might be more difficult then it was in the past due to technological reasons (economic of scales of warfare).

Fringe brought me to anarchy. I was something of a race realist before I started watching Fringe, but he certainly strengthened that.

That is what I mean when I say that I look at things very differently than I did before my stint as an anarchist. The biggest change is that I now see the state as just another institution or firm that is emergent.
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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2/22/2012 1:40:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/22/2012 1:32:04 AM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 2/22/2012 1:28:26 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 2/22/2012 1:19:14 AM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 2/22/2012 1:13:14 AM, Reasoning wrote:
Have you watched this jimtimmy?


I hadn't seen that specific video. Although, I was familiar with that debate. I think Fringe had some viable solutions, but I was ultimatley not convinced.

I must say fringe has probably some of the best arguments for anti-statism. I'm watching some of his videos. They're interesting to watch since they're informative, but it hasn't converted me to anarchy yet. It has changed my views of statism though. For example, I always thought that statism is just inevitable, that an anarchist society would eventually lead to a dictatorship. I know that is not necessarily the case. However, times have changed so the ability for a stateless society to form might be more difficult then it was in the past due to technological reasons (economic of scales of warfare).


Fringe brought me to anarchy. I was something of a race realist before I started watching Fringe, but he certainly strengthened that.

That is what I mean when I say that I look at things very differently than I did before my stint as an anarchist. The biggest change is that I now see the state as just another institution or firm that is emergent.

Which is why I still watch his videos while not fully agreeing to them. Yes, fringeelement has also brought me to the side of race realism.

I can see how his video can bring you to an anarchist side. It changes the frame of whether a stateless society is possible but whether a stateless society is desirable.

I'd say that empirical evidence tends to favor state societies since nations closer to the anarchist side (many african nations like somalia and nations listed as failed nations which is really anarchy) are a lot worse off then nations like the US.
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GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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2/22/2012 4:09:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
So you've sided with the fascists? The Illuminati is pleased to have another complicit slave be their pawns.

You say that you support force and the government controlling your social life.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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2/22/2012 7:29:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/22/2012 4:09:00 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
So you've sided with the fascists? The Illuminati is pleased to have another complicit slave be their pawns.

You say that you support force and the government controlling your social life. Grow up you mindless drone racist.

Geo, learn some manners.

Jimtimmy, welcome to the dark side of statist ideologies. Enjoy your stay.
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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2/22/2012 9:52:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Oh please where did you expect him to go? I was not comfortable sharing ideologies with him in the first place. At least now I feel better knowing that his line of reasoning doesn't lead to my belief system anymore :P
Rob
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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2/22/2012 1:12:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/22/2012 9:52:03 AM, Lasagna wrote:
Oh please where did you expect him to go? I was not comfortable sharing ideologies with him in the first place. At least now I feel better knowing that his line of reasoning doesn't lead to my belief system anymore :P

This. I didn't realise you were an anarchist nowadays. This makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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2/22/2012 1:38:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/22/2012 7:29:30 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 2/22/2012 4:09:00 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
So you've sided with the fascists? The Illuminati is pleased to have another complicit slave be their pawns.

You say that you support force and the government controlling your social life. Grow up you mindless drone racist.

Geo, learn some manners.

I'm merely treating a fascist as a fascist should be treated. A guy who says he wants someone else to control me is not going to get my respect. He's also a race realist and believes some races are better than others.

He has dangerous beliefs.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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2/22/2012 1:47:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/22/2012 9:52:03 AM, Lasagna wrote:
Oh please where did you expect him to go? I was not comfortable sharing ideologies with him in the first place. At least now I feel better knowing that his line of reasoning doesn't lead to my belief system anymore :P

Total agreement here. Are you an anarcho-communist?
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
socialpinko
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2/22/2012 1:50:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/22/2012 1:38:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

I'm merely treating a fascist as a fascist should be treated. A guy who says he wants someone else to control me is not going to get my respect. He's also a race realist and believes some races are better than others.

He has dangerous beliefs.

I don't think he's ever said specific races are actually BETTER than others, though I'm still undecided on the race realist issue.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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2/22/2012 1:52:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/22/2012 1:50:15 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 2/22/2012 1:38:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

I'm merely treating a fascist as a fascist should be treated. A guy who says he wants someone else to control me is not going to get my respect. He's also a race realist and believes some races are better than others.

He has dangerous beliefs.

I don't think he's ever said specific races are actually BETTER than others, though I'm still undecided on the race realist issue.

Race realism does say that some races are better than others.
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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2/22/2012 1:57:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/22/2012 1:52:22 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/22/2012 1:50:15 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 2/22/2012 1:38:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

I'm merely treating a fascist as a fascist should be treated. A guy who says he wants someone else to control me is not going to get my respect. He's also a race realist and believes some races are better than others.

He has dangerous beliefs.

I don't think he's ever said specific races are actually BETTER than others, though I'm still undecided on the race realist issue.

Race realism does say that some races are better than others.

I agree (that race realism does pretty much say that - not with race realism) but can we have one thread which isn't about racism?
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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2/22/2012 1:59:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/22/2012 1:52:22 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/22/2012 1:50:15 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 2/22/2012 1:38:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

I'm merely treating a fascist as a fascist should be treated. A guy who says he wants someone else to control me is not going to get my respect. He's also a race realist and believes some races are better than others.

He has dangerous beliefs.

I don't think he's ever said specific races are actually BETTER than others, though I'm still undecided on the race realist issue.

Race realism does say that some races are better than others.

Are you sure? I always thought race realists believed in different average levels of intelligence among different races.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
mestizomongrel
Posts: 16
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2/22/2012 2:02:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/22/2012 1:59:10 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 2/22/2012 1:52:22 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/22/2012 1:50:15 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 2/22/2012 1:38:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

I'm merely treating a fascist as a fascist should be treated. A guy who says he wants someone else to control me is not going to get my respect. He's also a race realist and believes some races are better than others.

He has dangerous beliefs.

I don't think he's ever said specific races are actually BETTER than others, though I'm still undecided on the race realist issue.

Race realism does say that some races are better than others.

Are you sure? I always thought race realists believed in different average levels of intelligence among different races.

Racial realism is a view held by some political groups and individuals which holds that racial divisions of humans are based in biological reality, and that racial distinctions are enduringly important because racial groups differ genetically with regard to such important behavioral tendencies as intelligence[1] and impulsiveness.[2]

Race realism has no normative implications; she is full of it.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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2/22/2012 2:05:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/22/2012 2:02:30 PM, mestizomongrel wrote:
At 2/22/2012 1:59:10 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 2/22/2012 1:52:22 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/22/2012 1:50:15 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 2/22/2012 1:38:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

I'm merely treating a fascist as a fascist should be treated. A guy who says he wants someone else to control me is not going to get my respect. He's also a race realist and believes some races are better than others.

He has dangerous beliefs.

I don't think he's ever said specific races are actually BETTER than others, though I'm still undecided on the race realist issue.

Race realism does say that some races are better than others.

Are you sure? I always thought race realists believed in different average levels of intelligence among different races.

Racial realism is a view held by some political groups and individuals which holds that racial divisions of humans are based in biological reality, and that racial distinctions are enduringly important because racial groups differ genetically with regard to such important behavioral tendencies as intelligence[1] and impulsiveness.[2]

Race realism has no normative implications; she is full of it.

Race realism does have normative implications. It claims that the races out to be separated and that they ought to be distinguished based on their qualities. The father of race realism, Jared Taylor, for example, advocates police profiling of African Americans.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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2/22/2012 2:06:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Furthermore, race realism would condemn interracial matings because it advocates the preservation of the "good genes" of better races.

Most scientists, sociologists, and historians agree that "race realism" is basically a new form of racism.
Thaddeus
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2/22/2012 2:06:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
And I get ignored and we have ten million pages on racism. You guys shut up back there or god help me I will turn this thread around!
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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2/22/2012 2:54:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't want this to turn into another race thread.

I will say that race realism does NOT hold that any race is superior to any other. I have said this many times.

Likewise, there are no normative implications.

Don't ever listen to a non race realist about what race realist's believe. You can and should listen to their criticisms of actual race realism, but their view of the definition is irrelevant.

Race realists get to decide what race realism means. That really shouldn't be a point of disagreement.
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jimtimmy
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2/22/2012 2:58:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/22/2012 2:56:25 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 2/22/2012 2:54:30 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
I don't want this to turn into another race thread.

*Hugs JT in a bromantic way*

*Returns Thaddeus's affection leading to an awkward homoerotic moment that only ends by both JT and Thaddeus slowly walking away*
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OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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2/22/2012 3:00:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I didn't even know JT was an anarchist.

It does seem that RR does have some normative implications - I mean let's be honest here, if you claim that blacks are genetically more predisposed to crime it can follow to racially profile them. Do you deny this JT?
jimtimmy
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2/22/2012 3:03:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/22/2012 3:00:33 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
I didn't even know JT was an anarchist.

It does seem that RR does have some normative implications - I mean let's be honest here, if you claim that blacks are genetically more predisposed to crime it can follow to racially profile them. Do you deny this JT?

I'm not saying that most race realists do not hold some political views stemming from race realism.

But, race realism itself does not have any necessary implications. For one, many race realists oppose police stereotyping for a variety of reasons.

Most race realists do oppose affirmative action and certain kinds of welfare statism, as I do.

However, a race realist could easily support affirmative action and large welfare programs and still be a race realist.

Yes, political implications are easy to come by, but they are not inherent in race realism.
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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2/22/2012 4:32:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/22/2012 3:00:33 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
I didn't even know JT was an anarchist.

It does seem that RR does have some normative implications - I mean let's be honest here, if you claim that blacks are genetically more predisposed to crime it can follow to racially profile them. Do you deny this JT?

Not necessarily. I mean we already know that just based on statistics that blacks are more likely to commit crimes but that does not mean one supports racial profiling.

Also, to JT, is there actually evidence to support if blacks are genetically more predisposed to crime.

Positivism can used to support normative principles, but positivism does not lead itself to normative principles. For example, Lasagna and I can both agree that capitalism leads itself to economic growth, however lasagna does not favor economic growth, so he is a communist while I favor economic growth, which makes me ideologically a capitalist.
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