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Lottocracy

FREEDO
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2/24/2012 12:59:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Aha! Here's something we haven't argued about!

Lottocracy (also known as Demarchy) is a form of government in which the policie makers are decided at random.

To most people, this sounds crazy. (Can you name an ideology that isn't?) But I see a huge amount of potential in this sort of system.

1. It gives opportunity for untried ideas to prove their worth. This allows the scientific method to be better applied to government. Try everything within the same context and and a controlled setting to find out what works best.

2. It brings more democracy that democracy can. The heart and sole of democracy is dispersing power so that no elite group can control the masses. As you can tell, majority rule fails at doing this, especially in the form of representative democracy. Only certain people are able to take control of the government in the democracy we have today. Here and there someone who isn't elitist may be able to get elected but they will never have enough of them to make any real difference. Lottocracy does what democracy wishes it could do and almost assures that people who share more common interests with the majority will have control.
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fnord
thett3
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2/24/2012 4:28:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
FREEDO
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2/24/2012 4:34:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I would like to see this combined with a system where all ideologies have equal representation.
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fnord
FREEDO
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2/24/2012 4:34:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/24/2012 4:33:14 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Is the policy maker a single person or a group of people?

Could be either.
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fnord
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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2/24/2012 4:38:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/24/2012 4:34:45 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 2/24/2012 4:33:14 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Is the policy maker a single person or a group of people?

Could be either.

Sounds dangerous and completely contrary to what the people would want.

Why not just have a monarchy or something then?
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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2/24/2012 4:39:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/24/2012 4:34:45 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 2/24/2012 4:33:14 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Is the policy maker a single person or a group of people?

Could be either.

Makes a huge difference. If its many people, crazy ideas are unlikely to be tried. The whole idea that the system will create new ideas will be unfounded, since laws will be based on the average person's though pattern.

If its a few or one, then crazy ideas are more likely to be tried.

And trying new ideas =/= good.
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DanT
Posts: 5,693
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2/24/2012 4:40:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/24/2012 12:59:49 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Aha! Here's something we haven't argued about!

Lottocracy (also known as Demarchy) is a form of government in which the policie makers are decided at random.

That's just another form of democracy.

A Monarchy is a government under the authority of one
A Oligarchy is a government under the authority of a few
A Democracy is a government run by the common people

The 6 constitutions are;
Monarchy (government under the authority of one for the benefit of the whole community)
Tyranny (government under the authority of one for the benefit of one)
Aristocracy (government under the authority of a few for the benefit of the whole community)
Oligarchy (government under the authority of a few for the benefit of a few)
Republic (government run by the common people for the benefit of the whole community)
Democracy (government run by the common people for the benefit of the majority)

A Tyranny is a monarchy where the monarch has absolute power
An Aristocracy is an oligarchy comprised of the best qualified
a Republic is a representive democracy that protects the rights of the minority from the majority; such as a protection of property rights
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
FREEDO
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2/24/2012 4:41:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/24/2012 4:38:06 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/24/2012 4:34:45 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 2/24/2012 4:33:14 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Is the policy maker a single person or a group of people?

Could be either.

Sounds dangerous and completely contrary to what the people would want.

Please, don't explain why.

Why not just have a monarchy or something then?

Well, you could have this as a monarchy but the monarch much change every few years and it must be a random person rather than one from a royal bloodline.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
charleslb
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2/24/2012 4:42:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/24/2012 12:59:49 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Aha! Here's something we haven't argued about!

Lottocracy (also known as Demarchy) is a form of government in which the policie makers are decided at random.

To most people, this sounds crazy...

It's not such a dumb or crazy idea at all. Some first-rate minds have in fact been in favor of democracy by lottery as opposed to election. For instance, political philosopher Andrew Levine advocates it in his book The General Will: Rousseau, Marx, Communism . Activist attorney Gerry Spence is also a proponent of the idea. And of course, last but not least, the iconic philosopher Aristotle thought that selection by lottery was more democratic than elections. And yes, it's been tried and worked, in ancient Athens, the birthplace of democracy. Yes, it's hardly a "crazy" idea, and with certain provisions I would be in favor of it myself.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
FREEDO
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2/24/2012 4:44:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/24/2012 4:39:17 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 2/24/2012 4:34:45 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 2/24/2012 4:33:14 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Is the policy maker a single person or a group of people?

Could be either.

Makes a huge difference. If its many people, crazy ideas are unlikely to be tried. The whole idea that the system will create new ideas will be unfounded, since laws will be based on the average person's though pattern.

If its a few or one, then crazy ideas are more likely to be tried.

Well, this is why I brought up the idea of representatives from every ideology. We could pick out of a pool of them, assuring that all ideas, rather than all people, have equal chance.

And trying new ideas =/= good.

Highly personal. The whole idea of this is based on the idea that no one conclusively knows what rights and that testing things will help figure it out.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
thett3
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2/24/2012 4:45:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm at a loss. If we're going to let our officials come into power by chance, why not just have a monarchy?

At least in a monarchy the king has a legitimate interest in taking care of his country.
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"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
FREEDO
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2/24/2012 4:46:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/24/2012 4:44:15 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I might want to debate this topic.

Maybe. It's interesting for sure.

Perhaps I will take you up on that. But not at the moment.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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2/24/2012 4:46:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/24/2012 4:45:06 PM, thett3 wrote:
I'm at a loss. If we're going to let our officials come into power by chance, why not just have a monarchy?

At least in a monarchy the king has a legitimate interest in taking care of his country.

As I said, you can have a lottocrat monarchy.
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fnord
thett3
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2/24/2012 4:49:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/24/2012 4:46:59 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 2/24/2012 4:45:06 PM, thett3 wrote:
I'm at a loss. If we're going to let our officials come into power by chance, why not just have a monarchy?

At least in a monarchy the king has a legitimate interest in taking care of his country.

As I said, you can have a lottocrat monarchy

Ahh well then :)

Does the monarch pass his kingdom onto his heir, or does the lottery take place again?
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
FREEDO
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2/24/2012 4:49:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/24/2012 4:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 2/24/2012 4:46:59 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 2/24/2012 4:45:06 PM, thett3 wrote:
I'm at a loss. If we're going to let our officials come into power by chance, why not just have a monarchy?

At least in a monarchy the king has a legitimate interest in taking care of his country.

As I said, you can have a lottocrat monarchy

Ahh well then :)

Does the monarch pass his kingdom onto his heir, or does the lottery take place again?

A new lotto is what would make it a lottocracy.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
darkkermit
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2/24/2012 4:51:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/24/2012 4:44:35 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 2/24/2012 4:39:17 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 2/24/2012 4:34:45 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 2/24/2012 4:33:14 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Is the policy maker a single person or a group of people?

Could be either.

Makes a huge difference. If its many people, crazy ideas are unlikely to be tried. The whole idea that the system will create new ideas will be unfounded, since laws will be based on the average person's though pattern.

If its a few or one, then crazy ideas are more likely to be tried.

Well, this is why I brought up the idea of representatives from every ideology. We could pick out of a pool of them, assuring that all ideas, rather than all people, have equal chance.

How do you choose who is a representative of an ideology? Which ideologies do you choose? Some ideologies are similar to one another. Some ideologies can gain up on other ideologies on some issues (lliberals and libertarian on social issues, conservatives and libertarians on economic issues). There is no fair way to do it.


And trying new ideas =/= good.

Highly personal. The whole idea of this is based on the idea that no one conclusively knows what rights and that testing things will help figure it out.

I know that drinking mercury is a bad idea despite not testing it out.
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FREEDO
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2/24/2012 4:53:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/24/2012 4:51:01 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 2/24/2012 4:44:35 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 2/24/2012 4:39:17 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 2/24/2012 4:34:45 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 2/24/2012 4:33:14 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Is the policy maker a single person or a group of people?

Could be either.

Makes a huge difference. If its many people, crazy ideas are unlikely to be tried. The whole idea that the system will create new ideas will be unfounded, since laws will be based on the average person's though pattern.

If its a few or one, then crazy ideas are more likely to be tried.

Well, this is why I brought up the idea of representatives from every ideology. We could pick out of a pool of them, assuring that all ideas, rather than all people, have equal chance.

How do you choose who is a representative of an ideology? Which ideologies do you choose? Some ideologies are similar to one another. Some ideologies can gain up on other ideologies on some issues (lliberals and libertarian on social issues, conservatives and libertarians on economic issues). There is no fair way to do it.

You don't need representatives, actually. Everyone could be grouped into an ideology by some means like a party system.

There's a million ways it could be done.


And trying new ideas =/= good.

Highly personal. The whole idea of this is based on the idea that no one conclusively knows what rights and that testing things will help figure it out.

I know that drinking mercury is a bad idea despite not testing it out.

No you don't.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
thett3
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2/24/2012 4:53:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well it would probably be better than the absurd failure of a system we have now.

But there would have to be certain mechanisms in place..for example, what if Charlie Manson won the lottery?
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"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
FREEDO
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2/24/2012 4:56:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/24/2012 4:53:04 PM, thett3 wrote:
Well it would probably be better than the absurd failure of a system we have now.

But there would have to be certain mechanisms in place..for example, what if Charlie Manson won the lottery?

Then it would certainly be an entertaining experiment!

But, really, there would a constitution with rights, of course.
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fnord
Greyparrot
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2/24/2012 5:19:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/24/2012 4:53:04 PM, thett3 wrote:
Well it would probably be better than the absurd failure of a system we have now.

But there would have to be certain mechanisms in place..for example, what if Charlie Manson won the lottery?

al franken won the lottery, we are still ok.
16kadams
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2/24/2012 5:22:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If I became leader....... Iran wouldn't exist........ *evil face*
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
thett3
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2/24/2012 5:33:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/24/2012 5:22:58 PM, 16kadams wrote:
If I became leader....... Iran wouldn't exist........ *evil face*

If I became leader, you wouldn't exist Alexander.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

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"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
UnStupendousMan
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2/24/2012 5:46:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Seems interesting, although I think that democracy will, again, be proven the worst possible government--except all the others that have been tried.
000ike
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2/24/2012 6:22:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
There's nothing I hate more than senseless attacks on democracy. Why do people think taking the contrarian position somehow implies they put in more thought into the issue than he who agrees with the average perception? I think I even saw someone write that this ludicrous plan was superior to the democratic institutions we have currently.

A form of government is constructed out of the protection of virtues and alignment with an ethical philosophy. How do you suppose one form bad and another good when you most likely don't have an idea what ideals a government should protect in the first place? Of course there are objectionable components of democracy, especially in how its implemented today,...but are you so blind you don't realize that this possibility of issue and objection is the case for virtually ANY plan you concoct?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault