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Ron Paul Supporters, Support Gary Johnson

MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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3/1/2012 8:04:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I've made this topic to call attention to and discuss the third party candidate in the 2012 Presidential Elections, Gary Johnson. Libertarians we will have one of our own on the ballot, and he is a Ron Paul Libertarian. During Governor Johnson's tenure in New Mexico he distinguished himself as a fiscally conservative candidate, exercising his veto and line veto powers more than all other governors in the Union combined.

Due to his diligence in ensuring tax payer money was spent wisely he not only left New Mexico with a one-billion dollar surplus, but also managed to fund a new school voucher system in his state. His leadership during the Cerro Grande Fire earned him praise from both Democratic and Republicans congressmen in his home state. When the Libertarian Party places Gary Johnson on the ballot this will be a huge step for our party, because Gary Johnson is the strongest candidate our party has ever had.

To all Ron Paul supporters who detest having to decide between the remaining candidates, whom have eroded economic and social freedoms during their service to the American people, Gary Johnson will prove to be an acceptable candidate. If not an ideal candidate to champion Libertarian principals. The choice in the upcoming election is clear; the Democrats want to tell you how to spend your money, the Republicans want to tell you how to live your personal life, and the Libertarians want to protect both your economic and personal freedoms.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/2/2012 12:00:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm sure most, if not all, Ron Paul supporters are familiar with Gary Johnson and they would probably all vote for him over any other candidate. However I think as of now they are 100% behind their guy and want to see how the primary turns out.
That all being said I'll for sure be voting for Gary Johnson if Paul's not around in the general election and hopefully all the Paul supporters rally behind him.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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3/2/2012 12:10:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
That's wasting your vote.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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3/2/2012 12:10:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 12:00:47 AM, lewis20 wrote:
I'm sure most, if not all, Ron Paul supporters are familiar with Gary Johnson and they would probably all vote for him over any other candidate. However I think as of now they are 100% behind their guy and want to see how the primary turns out.
That all being said I'll for sure be voting for Gary Johnson if Paul's not around in the general election and hopefully all the Paul supporters rally behind him.

That ensures Obama wins. Thanks :/
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/2/2012 12:31:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 12:10:58 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 3/2/2012 12:00:47 AM, lewis20 wrote:
I'm sure most, if not all, Ron Paul supporters are familiar with Gary Johnson and they would probably all vote for him over any other candidate. However I think as of now they are 100% behind their guy and want to see how the primary turns out.
That all being said I'll for sure be voting for Gary Johnson if Paul's not around in the general election and hopefully all the Paul supporters rally behind him.

That ensures Obama wins. Thanks :/

So what. Obama = RomneySantorumGingrich.

It only matters if Paul wins. Hes the only one with a real contrast in policies.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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3/2/2012 12:36:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Voting Libertarian is not a wasted vote, especially if Mitt Romney or Rick Santorum win the nomination. Governor Romney has proven through action that he is very similar to President Obama, although he is quick to say otherwise. Rick Santorum's social policies are just an intolerable to any honest Libertarian as President Obama's health care plan is, in that both are a blatant attack on personal freedoms.

Voting Libertarian in the election sends a clear message to the Republican Party. It tells the Republican Party that if it continues to run away from it's fiscal conservative and libertarian ideals, we will not continue to vote Republican. Social conservatives and neoconservatives have taken over the Republican Party, and this is intolerable. Only through voting Libertarian can the Republican party be redeemed.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/2/2012 2:19:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yeah, its such an attack on personal liberties to try to reduce the 45,000 annual deaths due to lack of access to basic health care for some 100 million Americans.ts not like fifteen 9/11 death tolls happening every year is worth sacrificing the hard-stolen $10 million incomes to some few dozen HMO CEOs over.

http://news.harvard.edu...

Shouldn't be the government's job to save lives over the wealth of an already wealthy minority anyway!
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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3/2/2012 7:01:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 12:10:58 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 3/2/2012 12:00:47 AM, lewis20 wrote:
I'm sure most, if not all, Ron Paul supporters are familiar with Gary Johnson and they would probably all vote for him over any other candidate. However I think as of now they are 100% behind their guy and want to see how the primary turns out.
That all being said I'll for sure be voting for Gary Johnson if Paul's not around in the general election and hopefully all the Paul supporters rally behind him.

That ensures Obama wins. Thanks :/

That is already ensured.
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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3/2/2012 9:46:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 2:19:51 AM, PervRat wrote:
Yeah, its such an attack on personal liberties to try to reduce the 45,000 annual deaths due to lack of access to basic health care for some 100 million Americans.ts not like fifteen 9/11 death tolls happening every year is worth sacrificing the hard-stolen $10 million incomes to some few dozen HMO CEOs over.

http://news.harvard.edu...

Shouldn't be the government's job to save lives over the wealth of an already wealthy minority anyway!

The government has no right to take your money and simply give it to someone else, the redistribution of wealth is a very UN-American idea. Not to mention that anytime you allow the government a monopoly on something it becomes plagued with inefficiency and waste. By the estimate of the man who was in charge of the Medicaid and Medicare programs, 20-30% of it's spending is wasted because of incompetence.

If the Federal Government were not already broke from funding the welfare state, and if our social programs were not projected to go bankrupt within the next twenty-fifty years, perhaps then private citizens would be more able to provide a safety net for the poorest Americans. By forcing the middle class, lower class, and rich to pay for the welfare state we are essentially making the first two increasing dependent on government administered health care, because they can't afford to pay for it themselves.

http://www.nytimes.com...
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/2/2012 9:56:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 12:10:58 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 3/2/2012 12:00:47 AM, lewis20 wrote:
I'm sure most, if not all, Ron Paul supporters are familiar with Gary Johnson and they would probably all vote for him over any other candidate. However I think as of now they are 100% behind their guy and want to see how the primary turns out.
That all being said I'll for sure be voting for Gary Johnson if Paul's not around in the general election and hopefully all the Paul supporters rally behind him.

That ensures Obama wins. Thanks :/

Hah did El Rushbaugh tell you that?
You realize nothing changes between administrations right?
Talking heads get you to be loyal to one side over the other but in reality they are both the same.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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3/2/2012 10:18:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 12:10:58 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 3/2/2012 12:00:47 AM, lewis20 wrote:
I'm sure most, if not all, Ron Paul supporters are familiar with Gary Johnson and they would probably all vote for him over any other candidate. However I think as of now they are 100% behind their guy and want to see how the primary turns out.
That all being said I'll for sure be voting for Gary Johnson if Paul's not around in the general election and hopefully all the Paul supporters rally behind him.

That ensures Obama wins. Thanks :/

+1.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/2/2012 10:25:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 10:18:17 AM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 3/2/2012 12:10:58 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 3/2/2012 12:00:47 AM, lewis20 wrote:
I'm sure most, if not all, Ron Paul supporters are familiar with Gary Johnson and they would probably all vote for him over any other candidate. However I think as of now they are 100% behind their guy and want to see how the primary turns out.
That all being said I'll for sure be voting for Gary Johnson if Paul's not around in the general election and hopefully all the Paul supporters rally behind him.

That ensures Obama wins. Thanks :/

+1.

Honestly what's the difference between Obama and Romney?
On important issues Obama is the same as Bush is the Same as Romney is the same as the next establishment shrill, from either party.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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3/2/2012 10:27:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 10:25:01 AM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/2/2012 10:18:17 AM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 3/2/2012 12:10:58 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 3/2/2012 12:00:47 AM, lewis20 wrote:
I'm sure most, if not all, Ron Paul supporters are familiar with Gary Johnson and they would probably all vote for him over any other candidate. However I think as of now they are 100% behind their guy and want to see how the primary turns out.
That all being said I'll for sure be voting for Gary Johnson if Paul's not around in the general election and hopefully all the Paul supporters rally behind him.

That ensures Obama wins. Thanks :/

+1.

Honestly what's the difference between Obama and Romney?
On important issues Obama is the same as Bush is the Same as Romney is the same as the next establishment shrill, from either party.

On a democratic scale of 1 to 10, Romney is a 2 or 3 and Obama is a 14.7.
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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3/2/2012 10:34:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
We should not have to settle for Romney. This line of thinking is what allows the Republican Party to pick candidates like George W. Bush and Mitt Romney, simply because they are more electable than real conservatives. If people did not view third party candidates as wasted votes, we would have more choices and a healthier political climate. With two parties we're choosing between big government and oh, big government.
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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3/2/2012 10:36:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 10:34:56 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
We should not have to settle for Romney. This line of thinking is what allows the Republican Party to pick candidates like George W. Bush and Mitt Romney, simply because they are more electable than real conservatives. If people did not view third party candidates as wasted votes, we would have more choices and a healthier political climate. With two parties we're choosing between big government and oh, big government.

If we all rallied behind the Republican candidate, whoever he is, we could beat Obama. If we all were split on third-party candidates, Obama would most certainly win.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/2/2012 10:40:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 10:27:07 AM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 3/2/2012 10:25:01 AM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/2/2012 10:18:17 AM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 3/2/2012 12:10:58 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 3/2/2012 12:00:47 AM, lewis20 wrote:
I'm sure most, if not all, Ron Paul supporters are familiar with Gary Johnson and they would probably all vote for him over any other candidate. However I think as of now they are 100% behind their guy and want to see how the primary turns out.
That all being said I'll for sure be voting for Gary Johnson if Paul's not around in the general election and hopefully all the Paul supporters rally behind him.

That ensures Obama wins. Thanks :/

+1.

Honestly what's the difference between Obama and Romney?
On important issues Obama is the same as Bush is the Same as Romney is the same as the next establishment shrill, from either party.

On a democratic scale of 1 to 10, Romney is a 2 or 3 and Obama is a 14.7.

C'mon
They are the same person on all important issues
monetary policy
foreign policy
fiscal policy (Romney hasn't proposed any real spending cuts)
civil liberties
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/2/2012 10:42:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 10:36:17 AM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 3/2/2012 10:34:56 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
We should not have to settle for Romney. This line of thinking is what allows the Republican Party to pick candidates like George W. Bush and Mitt Romney, simply because they are more electable than real conservatives. If people did not view third party candidates as wasted votes, we would have more choices and a healthier political climate. With two parties we're choosing between big government and oh, big government.

If we all rallied behind the Republican candidate, whoever he is, we could beat Obama. If we all were split on third-party candidates, Obama would most certainly win.

You mus be the person who would vote for an Obama clone if he had an R next to his name and you thought he could beat the Obama with a D next to his name?
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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3/2/2012 10:43:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 10:36:17 AM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 3/2/2012 10:34:56 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
We should not have to settle for Romney. This line of thinking is what allows the Republican Party to pick candidates like George W. Bush and Mitt Romney, simply because they are more electable than real conservatives. If people did not view third party candidates as wasted votes, we would have more choices and a healthier political climate. With two parties we're choosing between big government and oh, big government.

If we all rallied behind the Republican candidate, whoever he is, we could beat Obama. If we all were split on third-party candidates, Obama would most certainly win.

Romney winning is not going to make any difference. The best case scenario is that he repeals obamacare, but he isn't going to cut government spending and waste and he isn't going to fix the economy. In fact if you vote Romney you're likely to see government expansion of some kind, judging by his tenure as governor. You're more likely to see a war with Iran, judging by his rhetoric in the debates.
I can also tell you with 100% certainty that under Romney the erosion of personal liberty that has been going on since FDR will continue, he will change nothing.

I'd rather vote for someone who deserves to win (Gary Johnson) and see Obama win. At least then I succeed in sending a message to the Republican Party, and at least then we can remind them what they used to be-the party of fiscal conservatism and libertarian ideals.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/2/2012 10:46:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 10:40:24 AM, Ron-Paul wrote:
The main goal for this election is to beat Obama.

You must not be a true Ron Paul supporter then, Ron Paul people are behind an idea, not a person and it seems you are fighting a battle of peoples, not ideas.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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3/2/2012 12:24:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 9:56:36 AM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/2/2012 12:10:58 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 3/2/2012 12:00:47 AM, lewis20 wrote:
I'm sure most, if not all, Ron Paul supporters are familiar with Gary Johnson and they would probably all vote for him over any other candidate. However I think as of now they are 100% behind their guy and want to see how the primary turns out.
That all being said I'll for sure be voting for Gary Johnson if Paul's not around in the general election and hopefully all the Paul supporters rally behind him.

That ensures Obama wins. Thanks :/

Hah did El Rushbaugh tell you that?
You realize nothing changes between administrations right?
Talking heads get you to be loyal to one side over the other but in reality they are both the same.

ADD in action
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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3/2/2012 12:26:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 10:40:24 AM, Ron-Paul wrote:
The main goal for this election is to beat Obama.

That is to funny....Like saying you want to be a Doctor then quitting college. The goal of the GOP is to hand re-election to Obama, if actions are the indicator.
Starcraftzzz
Posts: 487
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3/2/2012 1:55:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 10:25:01 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Honestly what's the difference between Obama and Romney?
On important issues Obama is the same as Bush is the Same as Romney is the same as the next establishment shrill, from either party.
1) Romney wants to crease taxes on the poorest while slashing taxes for millionaire and billionaires, while Obama wants to increase taxes on the rich, remove loopholes and cut taxes for the poor.
2) Obama wants to end corporate subsidies to oil companies, Romney doesn't
3) Obama supports environmental regulations to reduce pollution Romney is for pollution
4) Obama wants to big banks to pay for their bailout, Romney doesn't, Obama wants to crack down on consumer fraud, Romney doesn't. Obama wants regulations to prevent banking crises Romney doesn't
Starcraftzzz
Posts: 487
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3/2/2012 1:56:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 9:46:14 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 3/2/2012 2:19:51 AM, PervRat wrote:
Yeah, its such an attack on personal liberties to try to reduce the 45,000 annual deaths due to lack of access to basic health care for some 100 million Americans.ts not like fifteen 9/11 death tolls happening every year is worth sacrificing the hard-stolen $10 million incomes to some few dozen HMO CEOs over.

http://news.harvard.edu...

Shouldn't be the government's job to save lives over the wealth of an already wealthy minority anyway!

The government has no right to take your money and simply give it to someone else, the redistribution of wealth is a very UN-American idea. Not to mention that anytime you allow the government a monopoly on something it becomes plagued with inefficiency and waste. By the estimate of the man who was in charge of the Medicaid and Medicare programs, 20-30% of it's spending is wasted because of incompetence. [/quote]
Government health care programs are 40% less expensive then private health care, despite government programs being more liked, and having higher quality
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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3/2/2012 2:51:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 1:56:43 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/2/2012 9:46:14 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 3/2/2012 2:19:51 AM, PervRat wrote:
Yeah, its such an attack on personal liberties to try to reduce the 45,000 annual deaths due to lack of access to basic health care for some 100 million Americans.ts not like fifteen 9/11 death tolls happening every year is worth sacrificing the hard-stolen $10 million incomes to some few dozen HMO CEOs over.

http://news.harvard.edu...

Shouldn't be the government's job to save lives over the wealth of an already wealthy minority anyway!

The government has no right to take your money and simply give it to someone else, the redistribution of wealth is a very UN-American idea. Not to mention that anytime you allow the government a monopoly on something it becomes plagued with inefficiency and waste. By the estimate of the man who was in charge of the Medicaid and Medicare programs, 20-30% of it's spending is wasted because of incompetence. [/quote]
Government health care programs are 40% less expensive then private health care, despite government programs being more liked, and having higher quality

Sources?
Starcraftzzz
Posts: 487
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3/2/2012 3:14:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 2:51:14 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 3/2/2012 1:56:43 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/2/2012 9:46:14 AM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 3/2/2012 2:19:51 AM, PervRat wrote:
Yeah, its such an attack on personal liberties to try to reduce the 45,000 annual deaths due to lack of access to basic health care for some 100 million Americans.ts not like fifteen 9/11 death tolls happening every year is worth sacrificing the hard-stolen $10 million incomes to some few dozen HMO CEOs over.

http://news.harvard.edu...

Shouldn't be the government's job to save lives over the wealth of an already wealthy minority anyway!

The government has no right to take your money and simply give it to someone else, the redistribution of wealth is a very UN-American idea. Not to mention that anytime you allow the government a monopoly on something it becomes plagued with inefficiency and waste. By the estimate of the man who was in charge of the Medicaid and Medicare programs, 20-30% of it's spending is wasted because of incompetence. [/quote]
Government health care programs are 40% less expensive then private health care, despite government programs being more liked, and having higher quality

Sources?
http://thinkprogress.org...
http://thinkprogress.org...
^3 studies show VA has better care than private hospitals, and costs less even though it treats older, sicker patients.
^VA health care delivers about 30% better quality care than private health care.
^VA Costs 40% less than private health care.

http://www.cms.hhs.gov...
==Medicare costs per beneficiary since 1970 have been 1.1% less than the private market.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org...
http://www.who.int...
http://assets.opencrs.com...
http://www.oecd.org...
==Academic standards show America has worse healthcare then other countries.
USA compared to government health care. (all statistics are per capita).
Where America is worse.
1) America has 50% more Medical errors.
2) America is worst in preventable deaths. If America was like government health care 200,000 people would be saved a year.
3) America has 2 million more medical bankruptcies compared to 0.
4) America has 26% less doctors.
5) America has 4% less nurses.
6) America has 46% less hospital beds.
7) America saw half the life expectancy change than countries who changed to government health care.
8) Infant mortality rates are 17% higher in America.
9) America has 100% less Psychiatric care beds.
10) America has 20% less people who go to hospitals.
11) America has 26% more years of life lost due to medical reasons.
12) America has 40% more Respiratory deaths
13) US Tuberculosis treatment success is 10% less
Starcraftzzz
Posts: 487
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3/2/2012 4:16:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 3:45:38 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
If you'd like we can debate universal healthcare.

That is what we are currently doing... well technicality I'm just posting facts and educating onlookers... but same thing..
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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3/2/2012 4:19:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 4:16:52 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/2/2012 3:45:38 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
If you'd like we can debate universal healthcare.

That is what we are currently doing... well technicality I'm just posting facts and educating onlookers... but same thing..

Right, but a formal debate would do the issue more justice.
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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3/2/2012 4:35:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/2/2012 3:45:38 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
If you'd like we can debate universal healthcare.

Silly, there already is universal care....Don't you mean universal insurance coverage, premiums, bigger business?