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Lincoln had Communist tendencies

DanT
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3/3/2012 4:31:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Lincoln committed allot of atrocities, to both the north and south. Lincoln's policies also tended to have Communist tendencies, although Lincoln was driven by Nationalism.

The 10 point platform in chapter 2 of the Manifesto of the Communist Party states;
"1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c. "
http://www.marxists.org...

Lincoln was the first President to implement a Progressive Income tax in order to fund the war.
Lincoln nationalized property belonging to people arrested without habeas corpus, on the grounds of treason.
Lincoln was in favor of a National Bank, and centralizing credit.
Lincoln took Military possession of the railways and telegraph lines.
Lincoln wanted to eliminate the distinction between State/local governments, and the Federal Government. Our National Anthem and Pledge of allegiance are both rooted in the civil war, and both refer the he US in this nationalistic light. After the Civil War we started to move away from Federalism towards Nationalism, and people n longer referred to the US in a plural sense.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
socialpinko
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3/3/2012 4:44:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/3/2012 4:39:29 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
Is this how you plan to discredit him? By calling him a communist? Nice. Slavery wasn't that bad.

Inb4 thread turns into a flame war about whether the Civil War was primarily about slavery or not.
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000ike
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3/3/2012 4:47:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/3/2012 4:44:36 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 3/3/2012 4:39:29 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
Is this how you plan to discredit him? By calling him a communist? Nice. Slavery wasn't that bad.

Inb4 thread turns into a flame war about whether the Civil War was primarily about slavery or not.

is it really a flame war if its discussing an actual issue rather than people calling each other names?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DanT
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3/3/2012 4:53:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/3/2012 4:39:29 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
Is this how you plan to discredit him? By calling him a communist? Nice. Slavery wasn't that bad.

Nice strawman; Not once did I mention slavery.

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause." ~ Abraham Lincoln

If you are referring to the 1863 Emancipation Proclamation, you may want to visit the Federal Archive website. The Emancipation Proclamation didn't free all the slaves, excluded some slaves from freedom, and was severely limited.

"Despite this expansive wording, the Emancipation Proclamation was limited in many ways. It applied only to states that had seceded from the Union, leaving slavery untouched in the loyal border states. It also expressly exempted parts of the Confederacy that had already come under Northern control. Most important, the freedom it promised depended upon Union military victory.

Although the Emancipation Proclamation did not end slavery in the nation, it captured the hearts and imagination of millions of Americans and fundamentally transformed the character of the war. After January 1, 1863, every advance of federal troops expanded the domain of freedom. Moreover, the Proclamation announced the acceptance of black men into the Union Army and Navy, enabling the liberated to become liberators. By the end of the war, almost 200,000 black soldiers and sailors had fought for the Union and freedom."
http://www.archives.gov...

Slavery wasn't abolished until December 6, 1865, by the 13th amendment, which Lincoln had nothing to do with (being 8 months dead and all).
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
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3/3/2012 4:55:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why is it when ever someone says something bad about Lincoln, people always use a slavery-straw man?
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
socialpinko
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3/3/2012 4:58:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/3/2012 4:55:23 PM, DanT wrote:
Why is it when ever someone says something bad about Lincoln, people always use a slavery-straw man?
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000ike
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3/3/2012 5:05:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/3/2012 4:55:23 PM, DanT wrote:
Why is it when ever someone says something bad about Lincoln, people always use a slavery-straw man?

because he was more pivotal to ending and weakening it than any president prior. What would you consider permissible if the result was the abolition of slavery? ...That is why most criticisms of Lincoln are narrowly conceived at best. You attack his actions without really considering or understand the context of the situation. This also goes for socialpinko since he agreed with this comment.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DanT
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3/3/2012 5:08:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/3/2012 5:05:01 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/3/2012 4:55:23 PM, DanT wrote:
Why is it when ever someone says something bad about Lincoln, people always use a slavery-straw man?

because he was more pivotal to ending and weakening it than any president prior. What would you consider permissible if the result was the abolition of slavery? ...That is why most criticisms of Lincoln are narrowly conceived at best. You attack his actions without really considering or understand the context of the situation. This also goes for socialpinko since he agreed with this comment.

I didn't take into consideration the context of the situation?
Hhhhmmm must be why I said, "Lincoln was the first President to implement a Progressive Income tax in order to fund the war."
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
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3/3/2012 5:10:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/3/2012 5:08:52 PM, DanT wrote:
At 3/3/2012 5:05:01 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/3/2012 4:55:23 PM, DanT wrote:
Why is it when ever someone says something bad about Lincoln, people always use a slavery-straw man?

because he was more pivotal to ending and weakening it than any president prior. What would you consider permissible if the result was the abolition of slavery? ...That is why most criticisms of Lincoln are narrowly conceived at best. You attack his actions without really considering or understand the context of the situation. This also goes for socialpinko since he agreed with this comment.

I didn't take into consideration the context of the situation?
Hhhhmmm must be why I said, "Lincoln was the first President to implement a Progressive Income tax in order to fund the war."

And the war was not over slavery it was over secession, and the States didn't just secede over slavery they seceded over a long list of things.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
OMGJustinBieber
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3/3/2012 5:18:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/3/2012 4:53:23 PM, DanT wrote:
At 3/3/2012 4:39:29 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
Is this how you plan to discredit him? By calling him a communist? Nice. Slavery wasn't that bad.

Nice strawman; Not once did I mention slavery.

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause." ~ Abraham Lincoln


If you are referring to the 1863 Emancipation Proclamation, you may want to visit the Federal Archive website. The Emancipation Proclamation didn't free all the slaves, excluded some slaves from freedom, and was severely limited.

"Despite this expansive wording, the Emancipation Proclamation was limited in many ways. It applied only to states that had seceded from the Union, leaving slavery untouched in the loyal border states. It also expressly exempted parts of the Confederacy that had already come under Northern control. Most important, the freedom it promised depended upon Union military victory.

Although the Emancipation Proclamation did not end slavery in the nation, it captured the hearts and imagination of millions of Americans and fundamentally transformed the character of the war. After January 1, 1863, every advance of federal troops expanded the domain of freedom. Moreover, the Proclamation announced the acceptance of black men into the Union Army and Navy, enabling the liberated to become liberators. By the end of the war, almost 200,000 black soldiers and sailors had fought for the Union and freedom."
http://www.archives.gov...

Slavery wasn't abolished until December 6, 1865, by the 13th amendment, which Lincoln had nothing to do with (being 8 months dead and all).

It's not a strawman, it was your repeated glaring omissions of slavery that's peculiar. Lincoln did care, he just had to cater politically to a union that was not too hot about liberating the slaves. He wrote "Slavery is a moral, social and political evil." We need to take into account his personal views as oppose to his political views that had to moderated and watered down due to the constituencies he was trying to appease.

Regardless of how you splice it though, he did free the slaves which is an enormous accomplishment - among the biggest in US history - and anti-lincolnites like you so often gloss over it. The idea that lincoln had nothing to do with abolishing slavery is sheer idiocy, and I won't even address it. EP was certainly limited in some respects, but it freed a lot of slaves (at least in theory.)
socialpinko
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3/3/2012 5:39:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/3/2012 5:05:01 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/3/2012 4:55:23 PM, DanT wrote:
Why is it when ever someone says something bad about Lincoln, people always use a slavery-straw man?

because he was more pivotal to ending and weakening it than any president prior. What would you consider permissible if the result was the abolition of slavery? ...That is why most criticisms of Lincoln are narrowly conceived at best. You attack his actions without really considering or understand the context of the situation. This also goes for socialpinko since he agreed with this comment.

The point is that slavery wasn't a moral concern of his and it wasn't the reason he waged a war against the Confederates. His only concern was stopping secession, abolishing slavery was a byproduct of that concern. That doesn't mean his actions were right or acceptable in the least.
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: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
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DanT
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3/3/2012 5:49:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/3/2012 5:17:32 PM, logicrules wrote:
LOL Before Marx was known, and before Lenin, there was Lincoln, the first communist.

Communist manifesto was published in 1848.
Stop wasting my time.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
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3/3/2012 6:01:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/3/2012 5:18:19 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 3/3/2012 4:53:23 PM, DanT wrote:
At 3/3/2012 4:39:29 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
Is this how you plan to discredit him? By calling him a communist? Nice. Slavery wasn't that bad.

Nice strawman; Not once did I mention slavery.

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause." ~ Abraham Lincoln


If you are referring to the 1863 Emancipation Proclamation, you may want to visit the Federal Archive website. The Emancipation Proclamation didn't free all the slaves, excluded some slaves from freedom, and was severely limited.

"Despite this expansive wording, the Emancipation Proclamation was limited in many ways. It applied only to states that had seceded from the Union, leaving slavery untouched in the loyal border states. It also expressly exempted parts of the Confederacy that had already come under Northern control. Most important, the freedom it promised depended upon Union military victory.

Although the Emancipation Proclamation did not end slavery in the nation, it captured the hearts and imagination of millions of Americans and fundamentally transformed the character of the war. After January 1, 1863, every advance of federal troops expanded the domain of freedom. Moreover, the Proclamation announced the acceptance of black men into the Union Army and Navy, enabling the liberated to become liberators. By the end of the war, almost 200,000 black soldiers and sailors had fought for the Union and freedom."
http://www.archives.gov...

Slavery wasn't abolished until December 6, 1865, by the 13th amendment, which Lincoln had nothing to do with (being 8 months dead and all).

It's not a strawman, it was your repeated glaring omissions of slavery that's peculiar.
It's not relevant to the topic, so how is that peculiar?
Lincoln did care, he just had to cater politically to a union that was not too hot about liberating the slaves. He wrote "Slavery is a moral, social and political evil." We need to take into account his personal views as oppose to his political views that had to moderated and watered down due to the constituencies he was trying to appease.

Never said that he didn't care; one could care and still exclude it from their policies. Should we assume that because he doesn't like broccoli that he would ban broccoli?
Regardless of how you splice it though, he did free the slaves which is an enormous accomplishment - among the biggest in US history - and anti-lincolnites like you so often gloss over it.
Again no he didn't; the emancipation proclamation didn't free the slaves, the 13th amendment did. There were still slaves in the US when he died.
A dead man can't free slaves, unless you are referring to zombie Lincoln.
The idea that lincoln had nothing to do with abolishing slavery is sheer idiocy, and I won't even address it. EP was certainly limited in some respects, but it freed a lot of slaves (at least in theory.)
Didn't free all of them; it's sole purpose was to win the war.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
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3/3/2012 6:04:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/3/2012 5:05:01 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/3/2012 4:55:23 PM, DanT wrote:
Why is it when ever someone says something bad about Lincoln, people always use a slavery-straw man?

because he was more pivotal to ending and weakening it than any president prior. What would you consider permissible if the result was the abolition of slavery? ...That is why most criticisms of Lincoln are narrowly conceived at best. You attack his actions without really considering or understand the context of the situation. This also goes for socialpinko since he agreed with this comment.

The idea that "the ends justify the means" is argumentum ad judicium
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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3/4/2012 12:21:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/3/2012 5:49:37 PM, DanT wrote:
At 3/3/2012 5:17:32 PM, logicrules wrote:
LOL Before Marx was known, and before Lenin, there was Lincoln, the first communist.

Communist manifesto was published in 1848.
Stop wasting my time.

yup, in German....I dont think it was available in US till 1900....hey there are thoe darn facts again
Reasoning
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3/4/2012 7:43:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Marx was a big fan of Lincoln. http://www.marxists.org...
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
OMGJustinBieber
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3/4/2012 8:06:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You could honestly make a similar claim to nearly all of our Presidents - that they held "communist tendencies." According to Geo we're all fascists anyway, and of course he would nationalize the railroads it's a civil war what sane ruler would leave such a crucial aspect in private hands at a time of crisis? We usually don't call people who support a graduated tax system "communists" for good reason - could we say that they have "communist tendencies?" It's very loaded language. It's like claiming someone who supports gun rights has "anarchist tendencies" when we all know that adherence to a given belief does not also bound the believer to every one of its extremes.
1Historygenius
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3/4/2012 10:40:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/3/2012 4:31:07 PM, DanT wrote:
Lincoln committed allot of atrocities, to both the north and south. Lincoln's policies also tended to have Communist tendencies, although Lincoln was driven by Nationalism.

The 10 point platform in chapter 2 of the Manifesto of the Communist Party states;
"1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c. "
http://www.marxists.org...

Lincoln was the first President to implement a Progressive Income tax in order to fund the war.
Lincoln nationalized property belonging to people arrested without habeas corpus, on the grounds of treason.
Lincoln was in favor of a National Bank, and centralizing credit.
Lincoln took Military possession of the railways and telegraph lines.
Lincoln wanted to eliminate the distinction between State/local governments, and the Federal Government. Our National Anthem and Pledge of allegiance are both rooted in the civil war, and both refer the he US in this nationalistic light. After the Civil War we started to move away from Federalism towards Nationalism, and people n longer referred to the US in a plural sense.

That is actually very typical in war time and thus I pardon him for all this. You have to do what you have to do to win a war. Ends Justify Means.
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

Latest debate - Reagan was a better President than Obama: http://www.debate.org...
DanT
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3/5/2012 7:28:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/4/2012 10:40:18 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 3/3/2012 4:31:07 PM, DanT wrote:
Lincoln committed allot of atrocities, to both the north and south. Lincoln's policies also tended to have Communist tendencies, although Lincoln was driven by Nationalism.

The 10 point platform in chapter 2 of the Manifesto of the Communist Party states;
"1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c. "
http://www.marxists.org...

Lincoln was the first President to implement a Progressive Income tax in order to fund the war.
Lincoln nationalized property belonging to people arrested without habeas corpus, on the grounds of treason.
Lincoln was in favor of a National Bank, and centralizing credit.
Lincoln took Military possession of the railways and telegraph lines.
Lincoln wanted to eliminate the distinction between State/local governments, and the Federal Government. Our National Anthem and Pledge of allegiance are both rooted in the civil war, and both refer the he US in this nationalistic light. After the Civil War we started to move away from Federalism towards Nationalism, and people n longer referred to the US in a plural sense.


That is actually very typical in war time and thus I pardon him for all this. You have to do what you have to do to win a war. Ends Justify Means.

argumentum ad judicium
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
logicrules
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3/5/2012 7:39:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/4/2012 10:40:18 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 3/3/2012 4:31:07 PM, DanT wrote:
Lincoln committed allot of atrocities, to both the north and south. Lincoln's policies also tended to have Communist tendencies, although Lincoln was driven by Nationalism.

The 10 point platform in chapter 2 of the Manifesto of the Communist Party states;
"1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c. "
http://www.marxists.org...

Lincoln was the first President to implement a Progressive Income tax in order to fund the war.
Lincoln nationalized property belonging to people arrested without habeas corpus, on the grounds of treason.
Lincoln was in favor of a National Bank, and centralizing credit.
Lincoln took Military possession of the railways and telegraph lines.
Lincoln wanted to eliminate the distinction between State/local governments, and the Federal Government. Our National Anthem and Pledge of allegiance are both rooted in the civil war, and both refer the he US in this nationalistic light. After the Civil War we started to move away from Federalism towards Nationalism, and people n longer referred to the US in a plural sense.


That is actually very typical in war time and thus I pardon him for all this. You have to do what you have to do to win a war. Ends Justify Means.

Dan is never inaccurate because his sole Primary source is in his head.
DanT
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3/5/2012 7:46:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/5/2012 7:39:36 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/4/2012 10:40:18 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 3/3/2012 4:31:07 PM, DanT wrote:
Lincoln committed allot of atrocities, to both the north and south. Lincoln's policies also tended to have Communist tendencies, although Lincoln was driven by Nationalism.

The 10 point platform in chapter 2 of the Manifesto of the Communist Party states;
"1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c. "
http://www.marxists.org...

Lincoln was the first President to implement a Progressive Income tax in order to fund the war.
Lincoln nationalized property belonging to people arrested without habeas corpus, on the grounds of treason.
Lincoln was in favor of a National Bank, and centralizing credit.
Lincoln took Military possession of the railways and telegraph lines.
Lincoln wanted to eliminate the distinction between State/local governments, and the Federal Government. Our National Anthem and Pledge of allegiance are both rooted in the civil war, and both refer the he US in this nationalistic light. After the Civil War we started to move away from Federalism towards Nationalism, and people n longer referred to the US in a plural sense.


That is actually very typical in war time and thus I pardon him for all this. You have to do what you have to do to win a war. Ends Justify Means.

logicrules is never inaccurate because his sole Primary source is in his head.

Fixed

Funny how I'm always able to provide links to back up my statements, whereas you never provide any sources.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
logicrules
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3/5/2012 8:03:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/5/2012 7:46:47 AM, DanT wrote:
At 3/5/2012 7:39:36 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/4/2012 10:40:18 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 3/3/2012 4:31:07 PM, DanT wrote:
Lincoln committed allot of atrocities, to both the north and south. Lincoln's policies also tended to have Communist tendencies, although Lincoln was driven by Nationalism.

The 10 point platform in chapter 2 of the Manifesto of the Communist Party states;
"1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c. "
http://www.marxists.org...

Lincoln was the first President to implement a Progressive Income tax in order to fund the war.
Lincoln nationalized property belonging to people arrested without habeas corpus, on the grounds of treason.
Lincoln was in favor of a National Bank, and centralizing credit.
Lincoln took Military possession of the railways and telegraph lines.
Lincoln wanted to eliminate the distinction between State/local governments, and the Federal Government. Our National Anthem and Pledge of allegiance are both rooted in the civil war, and both refer the he US in this nationalistic light. After the Civil War we started to move away from Federalism towards Nationalism, and people n longer referred to the US in a plural sense.


That is actually very typical in war time and thus I pardon him for all this. You have to do what you have to do to win a war. Ends Justify Means.

logicrules is never inaccurate because his sole Primary source is in his head.

Fixed

Funny how I'm always able to provide links to back up my statements, whereas you never provide any sources.

Links....Funny, not even a tertiary source.
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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3/5/2012 12:16:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/4/2012 8:06:55 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
You could honestly make a similar claim to nearly all of our Presidents - that they held "communist tendencies." According to Geo we're all fascists anyway, and of course he would nationalize the railroads it's a civil war what sane ruler would leave such a crucial aspect in private hands at a time of crisis? We usually don't call people who support a graduated tax system "communists" for good reason - could we say that they have "communist tendencies?" It's very loaded language. It's like claiming someone who supports gun rights has "anarchist tendencies" when we all know that adherence to a given belief does not also bound the believer to every one of its extremes.

^
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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3/5/2012 1:06:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/5/2012 12:16:14 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 3/4/2012 8:06:55 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
You could honestly make a similar claim to nearly all of our Presidents - that they held "communist tendencies." According to Geo we're all fascists anyway, and of course he would nationalize the railroads it's a civil war what sane ruler would leave such a crucial aspect in private hands at a time of crisis? We usually don't call people who support a graduated tax system "communists" for good reason - could we say that they have "communist tendencies?" It's very loaded language. It's like claiming someone who supports gun rights has "anarchist tendencies" when we all know that adherence to a given belief does not also bound the believer to every one of its extremes.

^

communist tendencies are communist tendencies. Lincoln was Nationalist, not communist, but he still had communist tendencies.

Gun rights, and Free market economics are actually Classic Liberal tendencies.
A anarchist tendency would be abolishing a ruling body, or indiscriminately abolishing all laws, or overthrowing the government.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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3/5/2012 1:09:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/5/2012 8:03:59 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/5/2012 7:46:47 AM, DanT wrote:
At 3/5/2012 7:39:36 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/4/2012 10:40:18 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 3/3/2012 4:31:07 PM, DanT wrote:
Lincoln committed allot of atrocities, to both the north and south. Lincoln's policies also tended to have Communist tendencies, although Lincoln was driven by Nationalism.

The 10 point platform in chapter 2 of the Manifesto of the Communist Party states;
"1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c. "
http://www.marxists.org...

Lincoln was the first President to implement a Progressive Income tax in order to fund the war.
Lincoln nationalized property belonging to people arrested without habeas corpus, on the grounds of treason.
Lincoln was in favor of a National Bank, and centralizing credit.
Lincoln took Military possession of the railways and telegraph lines.
Lincoln wanted to eliminate the distinction between State/local governments, and the Federal Government. Our National Anthem and Pledge of allegiance are both rooted in the civil war, and both refer the he US in this nationalistic light. After the Civil War we started to move away from Federalism towards Nationalism, and people n longer referred to the US in a plural sense.


That is actually very typical in war time and thus I pardon him for all this. You have to do what you have to do to win a war. Ends Justify Means.

logicrules is never inaccurate because his sole Primary source is in his head.

Fixed

Funny how I'm always able to provide links to back up my statements, whereas you never provide any sources.

Links....Funny, not even a tertiary source.

Has anyone ever told you, your an idiot?
Now please go troll someone else!
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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3/5/2012 1:11:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/5/2012 1:09:51 PM, DanT wrote:
At 3/5/2012 8:03:59 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/5/2012 7:46:47 AM, DanT wrote:
At 3/5/2012 7:39:36 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/4/2012 10:40:18 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 3/3/2012 4:31:07 PM, DanT wrote:
Lincoln committed allot of atrocities, to both the north and south. Lincoln's policies also tended to have Communist tendencies, although Lincoln was driven by Nationalism.

The 10 point platform in chapter 2 of the Manifesto of the Communist Party states;
"1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c. "
http://www.marxists.org...

Lincoln was the first President to implement a Progressive Income tax in order to fund the war.
Lincoln nationalized property belonging to people arrested without habeas corpus, on the grounds of treason.
Lincoln was in favor of a National Bank, and centralizing credit.
Lincoln took Military possession of the railways and telegraph lines.
Lincoln wanted to eliminate the distinction between State/local governments, and the Federal Government. Our National Anthem and Pledge of allegiance are both rooted in the civil war, and both refer the he US in this nationalistic light. After the Civil War we started to move away from Federalism towards Nationalism, and people n longer referred to the US in a plural sense.


That is actually very typical in war time and thus I pardon him for all this. You have to do what you have to do to win a war. Ends Justify Means.

logicrules is never inaccurate because his sole Primary source is in his head.

Fixed

Funny how I'm always able to provide links to back up my statements, whereas you never provide any sources.

Links....Funny, not even a tertiary source.

Has anyone ever told you, your'e an idiot?
Now please go troll someone else!

stupid Iphone, I hate how it's always changing my words. I originally wrote your'e, but didn't put the '.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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3/5/2012 2:32:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/5/2012 1:06:21 PM, DanT wrote:
At 3/5/2012 12:16:14 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 3/4/2012 8:06:55 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
You could honestly make a similar claim to nearly all of our Presidents - that they held "communist tendencies." According to Geo we're all fascists anyway, and of course he would nationalize the railroads it's a civil war what sane ruler would leave such a crucial aspect in private hands at a time of crisis? We usually don't call people who support a graduated tax system "communists" for good reason - could we say that they have "communist tendencies?" It's very loaded language. It's like claiming someone who supports gun rights has "anarchist tendencies" when we all know that adherence to a given belief does not also bound the believer to every one of its extremes.

^

communist tendencies are communist tendencies. Lincoln was Nationalist, not communist, but he still had communist tendencies.

Gun rights, and Free market economics are actually Classic Liberal tendencies.
A anarchist tendency would be abolishing a ruling body, or indiscriminately abolishing all laws, or overthrowing the government.

But anarchists would support gun rights, and for you that should be enough to label it an anarchist tendency. You say communists support X, lincoln X thus lincoln has communist tendencies. Why can't I say anarchists support X, DanT supports X thus DanT has anarchist tendencies.

Or I could even say something like Nazis supported government involvement in business, liberals support government involvement in business - thus, liberals have nazi tendencies.