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Republicans Should Raise Taxes on the Rich

jimtimmy
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3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
First, let me say, that tax reform is not going to happen. It just won't. Well, at least it probably won't. I've learned that I shouldn't make definitive predictions. But, it is very unlikely that we will have any kind of tax reform.

However, a deficit reduction plan is somewhat likely and necessary. And, I think Republicans should be willing to let the bush tax cuts expire for the wealthy.

First, let me be clear, I am not for letting the tax cuts expire. All else equal, they should be made permanent. But, there are higher priorities than protecting tax cuts for the rich.

Yes, raising taxes on the rich will lead to them hiding more income, it will lead small businesses to have less profit to reinvest in new equipment and jobs, it will lead to reduced economic growth in the long run and short run.

That being said, the effects are limited. We are talking about the top tax rate going from 35% to 39.6%. This won't raise much revenue, but it will raise some. It won't do much economic damage, but it will be some. The point is, the economic effects are limited.

However, the political effects are not limited. Republicans are generally supported by the electorate on most issues. The electorate supports strongly the "Cut, Cap, and Balance" spending cut legislation that was dubbed "radical" by the left wing media. They oppose Obamacare. They oppose many regulations. They oppose higher taxes and big government in general. They oppose amnesty for illegal immigrants and support stronger border security. They oppose massive tax schemes aimed at stopping global warming. So, the electorate is pretty conservative.

However, the electorate does generally want higher taxes on the rich. They really do.

So, let me explain why I think Republicans should be willing to accept a bill that allows the Bush tax cuts to expire for the rich. First, Republicans can get many, many concessions.

If they allow Democrats to achieve the most popular part of their agenda, Republicans would have leverage to demand massive spending cuts, massive reductions in regulations, and possibly cuts in middle class tax rates (like abolishing the AMT).

Even better, Democrats won't be able to run on taxing the rich. If they do, it will seem like overkill. And, a Republican president could be more easily elected. This president could repeal Obamacare and possibly cut tax rates again.
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jat93
Posts: 1,440
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3/6/2012 5:43:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
First, let me say, that tax reform is not going to happen. It just won't. Well, at least it probably won't. I've learned that I shouldn't make definitive predictions. But, it is very unlikely that we will have any kind of tax reform.

However, a deficit reduction plan is somewhat likely and necessary. And, I think Republicans should be willing to let the bush tax cuts expire for the wealthy.

First, let me be clear, I am not for letting the tax cuts expire. All else equal, they should be made permanent. But, there are higher priorities than protecting tax cuts for the rich.

Yes, raising taxes on the rich will lead to them hiding more income, it will lead small businesses to have less profit to reinvest in new equipment and jobs, it will lead to reduced economic growth in the long run and short run.

That being said, the effects are limited. We are talking about the top tax rate going from 35% to 39.6%. This won't raise much revenue, but it will raise some. It won't do much economic damage, but it will be some. The point is, the economic effects are limited.

However, the political effects are not limited. Republicans are generally supported by the electorate on most issues. The electorate supports strongly the "Cut, Cap, and Balance" spending cut legislation that was dubbed "radical" by the left wing media. They oppose Obamacare. They oppose many regulations. They oppose higher taxes and big government in general. They oppose amnesty for illegal immigrants and support stronger border security. They oppose massive tax schemes aimed at stopping global warming. So, the electorate is pretty conservative.

However, the electorate does generally want higher taxes on the rich. They really do.

So, let me explain why I think Republicans should be willing to accept a bill that allows the Bush tax cuts to expire for the rich. First, Republicans can get many, many concessions.

If they allow Democrats to achieve the most popular part of their agenda, Republicans would have leverage to demand massive spending cuts, massive reductions in regulations, and possibly cuts in middle class tax rates (like abolishing the AMT).

Even better, Democrats won't be able to run on taxing the rich. If they do, it will seem like overkill. And, a Republican president could be more easily elected. This president could repeal Obamacare and possibly cut tax rates again.

I'm a libertarian (though not as doctrinaire as most libertarians have come to be seen as) and I agree very much with this post. I wish Ron Paul, who I strongly support, would consider this line of reasoning. As you said, the economic effects of raising taxes a little bit would be minimal but the gained political leverage to make substantial cuts would be enormous - potentially.

But remember, it's only potential. In the '80s, Reagan agreed to tax hikes and debt ceiling raises on the condition that substantial spending cuts would be made. The taxes and debt ceiling were raised, multiple times I believe. The spending cuts never came. I believe this is because of the natural law that government expands once its put into place and in general, people forget how things existed before pointless bureaucracy X was created. (Example - the department of educated, which many liberals were against when it was created in 1979, and which Reagan ran on abolishing, but which Ron Paul is now seen as insane for wanting to abolish.)

The point is that it is government's nature to expand because once government has a monopoly on something, people lose their imaginations and can't imagine how that thing would exist without the government sponsoring it. Spending cuts thus become exceedingly difficult to enact. Many a conservative have been fooled by the promise of "tax hikes now, spending cuts later." Just something to consider.
Starcraftzzz
Posts: 487
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3/6/2012 6:36:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
First, let me say, that tax reform is not going to happen. It just won't. Well, at least it probably won't. I've learned that I shouldn't make definitive predictions. But, it is very unlikely that we will have any kind of tax reform.
Yep Republicans and conservative dems blocked Obama's attempt to reform the tax code.
At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
Yes, raising taxes on the rich will lead to them hiding more income, it will lead small businesses to have less profit to reinvest in new equipment and jobs, it will lead to reduced economic growth in the long run and short run.
Repealing the Bush taxes cuts for the rich doesn't increase small business taxes. How do you not even know the basics?



JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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3/6/2012 6:52:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 6:36:35 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
First, let me say, that tax reform is not going to happen. It just won't. Well, at least it probably won't. I've learned that I shouldn't make definitive predictions. But, it is very unlikely that we will have any kind of tax reform.
Yep Republicans and conservative dems blocked Obama's attempt to reform the tax code.

Even if dems have full control of every branch, you would still blame it on conservatives.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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3/6/2012 7:08:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 6:36:35 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
First, let me say, that tax reform is not going to happen. It just won't. Well, at least it probably won't. I've learned that I shouldn't make definitive predictions. But, it is very unlikely that we will have any kind of tax reform.
Yep Republicans and conservative dems blocked Obama's attempt to reform the tax code.

Opposite is true. Republicans proposed tax reform and Obama blocked it.

At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
Yes, raising taxes on the rich will lead to them hiding more income, it will lead small businesses to have less profit to reinvest in new equipment and jobs, it will lead to reduced economic growth in the long run and short run.
Repealing the Bush taxes cuts for the rich doesn't increase small business taxes. How do you not even know the basics?






Yes it does. I don't even know how someone couldn't know this.
President of DDO
Starcraftzzz
Posts: 487
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3/6/2012 7:09:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 6:52:41 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 3/6/2012 6:36:35 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
First, let me say, that tax reform is not going to happen. It just won't. Well, at least it probably won't. I've learned that I shouldn't make definitive predictions. But, it is very unlikely that we will have any kind of tax reform.
Yep Republicans and conservative dems blocked Obama's attempt to reform the tax code.

Even if dems have full control of every branch, you would still blame it on conservatives.
Yes because some Dems are conservative an they are the ones that blocked it along with the GOPers
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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3/6/2012 7:11:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 7:09:46 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 6:52:41 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 3/6/2012 6:36:35 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
First, let me say, that tax reform is not going to happen. It just won't. Well, at least it probably won't. I've learned that I shouldn't make definitive predictions. But, it is very unlikely that we will have any kind of tax reform.
Yep Republicans and conservative dems blocked Obama's attempt to reform the tax code.

Even if dems have full control of every branch, you would still blame it on conservatives.
Yes because some Dems are conservative an they are the ones that blocked it along with the GOPers

+1
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Starcraftzzz
Posts: 487
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3/6/2012 7:18:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 7:08:31 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 6:36:35 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
First, let me say, that tax reform is not going to happen. It just won't. Well, at least it probably won't. I've learned that I shouldn't make definitive predictions. But, it is very unlikely that we will have any kind of tax reform.
Yep Republicans and conservative dems blocked Obama's attempt to reform the tax code.

Opposite is true. Republicans proposed tax reform and Obama blocked it.
Source that bull$hit

Here Obama proposes tax reform
http://www.nytimes.com...
And here republicans oppose it/block it
http://jmbell.org...




At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
Yes, raising taxes on the rich will lead to them hiding more income, it will lead small businesses to have less profit to reinvest in new equipment and jobs, it will lead to reduced economic growth in the long run and short run.
Repealing the Bush taxes cuts for the rich doesn't increase small business taxes. How do you not even know the basics?
Yes it does. I don't even know how someone couldn't know this.
Reality like always disagrees with you

http://www.cbpp.org...
http://www.cbo.gov...
http://www.commondreams.org...
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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3/6/2012 8:03:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 7:18:15 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 7:08:31 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 6:36:35 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
First, let me say, that tax reform is not going to happen. It just won't. Well, at least it probably won't. I've learned that I shouldn't make definitive predictions. But, it is very unlikely that we will have any kind of tax reform.
Yep Republicans and conservative dems blocked Obama's attempt to reform the tax code.

Opposite is true. Republicans proposed tax reform and Obama blocked it.
Source that bull$hit

Here Obama proposes tax reform
http://www.nytimes.com...
And here republicans oppose it/block it
http://jmbell.org...

You are SUCH a joke. Republicans have been the only ones to propose real tax reform in the Paul Ryan Budget plan which Dems rejected. Obama has not proposed any tax reform that simplifies and lowers rates.

You are SO far off here.





At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
Yes, raising taxes on the rich will lead to them hiding more income, it will lead small businesses to have less profit to reinvest in new equipment and jobs, it will lead to reduced economic growth in the long run and short run.
Repealing the Bush taxes cuts for the rich doesn't increase small business taxes. How do you not even know the basics?
Yes it does. I don't even know how someone couldn't know this.
Reality like always disagrees with you

http://www.cbpp.org...
http://www.cbo.gov...
http://www.commondreams.org...

50% of small business income is made by businesses making more than 250k a year. Set and match.
President of DDO
Starcraftzzz
Posts: 487
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3/6/2012 8:08:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 8:03:11 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 7:18:15 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 7:08:31 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 6:36:35 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
First, let me say, that tax reform is not going to happen. It just won't. Well, at least it probably won't. I've learned that I shouldn't make definitive predictions. But, it is very unlikely that we will have any kind of tax reform.
Yep Republicans and conservative dems blocked Obama's attempt to reform the tax code.

Opposite is true. Republicans proposed tax reform and Obama blocked it.
Source that bull$hit

Here Obama proposes tax reform
http://www.nytimes.com...
And here republicans oppose it/block it
http://jmbell.org...



You are SUCH a joke. Republicans have been the only ones to propose real tax reform in the Paul Ryan Budget plan which Dems rejected. Obama has not proposed any tax reform that simplifies and lowers rates.

You are SO far off here.







At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
Yes, raising taxes on the rich will lead to them hiding more income, it will lead small businesses to have less profit to reinvest in new equipment and jobs, it will lead to reduced economic growth in the long run and short run.
Repealing the Bush taxes cuts for the rich doesn't increase small business taxes. How do you not even know the basics?
Yes it does. I don't even know how someone couldn't know this.
Reality like always disagrees with you

http://www.cbpp.org...
http://www.cbo.gov...
http://www.commondreams.org...

50% of small business income is made by businesses making more than 250k a year. Set and match.
1) ROTFL so you are to ignorant to realize that business income isn't the same as personal income... Even if ALL small business made more then 250k a year, non of them would be taxes by raising personal income taxes on income over 250,000 because the two are not the same.
2) Only 1.9% of filers who have <b>any</b> income from a small business earn 250,000 or more.
Get a clue plz.
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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3/6/2012 8:14:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 8:08:19 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:03:11 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 7:18:15 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 7:08:31 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 6:36:35 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
First, let me say, that tax reform is not going to happen. It just won't. Well, at least it probably won't. I've learned that I shouldn't make definitive predictions. But, it is very unlikely that we will have any kind of tax reform.
Yep Republicans and conservative dems blocked Obama's attempt to reform the tax code.

Opposite is true. Republicans proposed tax reform and Obama blocked it.
Source that bull$hit

Here Obama proposes tax reform
http://www.nytimes.com...
And here republicans oppose it/block it
http://jmbell.org...



You are SUCH a joke. Republicans have been the only ones to propose real tax reform in the Paul Ryan Budget plan which Dems rejected. Obama has not proposed any tax reform that simplifies and lowers rates.

You are SO far off here.







At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
Yes, raising taxes on the rich will lead to them hiding more income, it will lead small businesses to have less profit to reinvest in new equipment and jobs, it will lead to reduced economic growth in the long run and short run.
Repealing the Bush taxes cuts for the rich doesn't increase small business taxes. How do you not even know the basics?
Yes it does. I don't even know how someone couldn't know this.
Reality like always disagrees with you

http://www.cbpp.org...
http://www.cbo.gov...
http://www.commondreams.org...

50% of small business income is made by businesses making more than 250k a year. Set and match.
1) ROTFL so you are to ignorant to realize that business income isn't the same as personal income... Even if ALL small business made more then 250k a year, non of them would be taxes by raising personal income taxes on income over 250,000 because the two are not the same.
2) Only 1.9% of filers who have <b>any</b> income from a small business earn 250,000 or more.
Get a clue plz.

1.) Actually, you are the ignorant one here. S-corps and LLCs pay income tax under the personal income tax system. They account for over half of American jobs.

2.) Um, but those 1.9% make 50% of the total business income.

I think you need to get a clue.
President of DDO
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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3/6/2012 8:20:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 5:43:50 PM, jat93 wrote:
At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
First, let me say, that tax reform is not going to happen. It just won't. Well, at least it probably won't. I've learned that I shouldn't make definitive predictions. But, it is very unlikely that we will have any kind of tax reform.

However, a deficit reduction plan is somewhat likely and necessary. And, I think Republicans should be willing to let the bush tax cuts expire for the wealthy.

First, let me be clear, I am not for letting the tax cuts expire. All else equal, they should be made permanent. But, there are higher priorities than protecting tax cuts for the rich.

Yes, raising taxes on the rich will lead to them hiding more income, it will lead small businesses to have less profit to reinvest in new equipment and jobs, it will lead to reduced economic growth in the long run and short run.

That being said, the effects are limited. We are talking about the top tax rate going from 35% to 39.6%. This won't raise much revenue, but it will raise some. It won't do much economic damage, but it will be some. The point is, the economic effects are limited.

However, the political effects are not limited. Republicans are generally supported by the electorate on most issues. The electorate supports strongly the "Cut, Cap, and Balance" spending cut legislation that was dubbed "radical" by the left wing media. They oppose Obamacare. They oppose many regulations. They oppose higher taxes and big government in general. They oppose amnesty for illegal immigrants and support stronger border security. They oppose massive tax schemes aimed at stopping global warming. So, the electorate is pretty conservative.

However, the electorate does generally want higher taxes on the rich. They really do.

So, let me explain why I think Republicans should be willing to accept a bill that allows the Bush tax cuts to expire for the rich. First, Republicans can get many, many concessions.

If they allow Democrats to achieve the most popular part of their agenda, Republicans would have leverage to demand massive spending cuts, massive reductions in regulations, and possibly cuts in middle class tax rates (like abolishing the AMT).

Even better, Democrats won't be able to run on taxing the rich. If they do, it will seem like overkill. And, a Republican president could be more easily elected. This president could repeal Obamacare and possibly cut tax rates again.

I'm a libertarian (though not as doctrinaire as most libertarians have come to be seen as) and I agree very much with this post. I wish Ron Paul, who I strongly support, would consider this line of reasoning. As you said, the economic effects of raising taxes a little bit would be minimal but the gained political leverage to make substantial cuts would be enormous - potentially.

But remember, it's only potential. In the '80s, Reagan agreed to tax hikes and debt ceiling raises on the condition that substantial spending cuts would be made. The taxes and debt ceiling were raised, multiple times I believe. The spending cuts never came. I believe this is because of the natural law that government expands once its put into place and in general, people forget how things existed before pointless bureaucracy X was created. (Example - the department of educated, which many liberals were against when it was created in 1979, and which Reagan ran on abolishing, but which Ron Paul is now seen as insane for wanting to abolish.)

The point is that it is government's nature to expand because once government has a monopoly on something, people lose their imaginations and can't imagine how that thing would exist without the government sponsoring it. Spending cuts thus become exceedingly difficult to enact. Many a conservative have been fooled by the promise of "tax hikes now, spending cuts later." Just something to consider.

I agree. That is a major problem. I am under the assumption that spending cuts passed will actually take place. That is not something that should be assumed.

However, I do think that there is probably some mechanism that could force the spending cuts.
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Starcraftzzz
Posts: 487
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3/6/2012 8:22:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 8:14:37 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:08:19 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:03:11 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 7:18:15 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 7:08:31 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 6:36:35 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
First, let me say, that tax reform is not going to happen. It just won't. Well, at least it probably won't. I've learned that I shouldn't make definitive predictions. But, it is very unlikely that we will have any kind of tax reform.
Yep Republicans and conservative dems blocked Obama's attempt to reform the tax code.

Opposite is true. Republicans proposed tax reform and Obama blocked it.
Source that bull$hit

Here Obama proposes tax reform
http://www.nytimes.com...
And here republicans oppose it/block it
http://jmbell.org...



You are SUCH a joke. Republicans have been the only ones to propose real tax reform in the Paul Ryan Budget plan which Dems rejected. Obama has not proposed any tax reform that simplifies and lowers rates.

You are SO far off here.







At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
Yes, raising taxes on the rich will lead to them hiding more income, it will lead small businesses to have less profit to reinvest in new equipment and jobs, it will lead to reduced economic growth in the long run and short run.
Repealing the Bush taxes cuts for the rich doesn't increase small business taxes. How do you not even know the basics?
Yes it does. I don't even know how someone couldn't know this.
Reality like always disagrees with you

http://www.cbpp.org...
http://www.cbo.gov...
http://www.commondreams.org...

50% of small business income is made by businesses making more than 250k a year. Set and match.
1) ROTFL so you are to ignorant to realize that business income isn't the same as personal income... Even if ALL small business made more then 250k a year, non of them would be taxes by raising personal income taxes on income over 250,000 because the two are not the same.
2) Only 1.9% of filers who have <b>any</b> income from a small business earn 250,000 or more.
Get a clue plz.


1.) Actually, you are the ignorant one here. S-corps and LLCs pay income tax under the personal income tax system. They account for over half of American jobs.

2.) Um, but those 1.9% make 50% of the total business income.

I think you need to get a clue.
1) No people who make income from S-corps and LLC pay income taxes.
2) Um, no the 1.9% number is the number of people in the country with any income from a small businesses and also total income above 250,000.
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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3/6/2012 8:25:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Another classic Jimtimmy vs Starcraftzzz dispute

(gets popcorn and watches)
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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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3/6/2012 8:26:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 8:25:50 PM, imabench wrote:
Another classic Jimtimmy vs Starcraftzzz dispute

(gets popcorn and watches)

I think Starcraftzzz knows what he's talking about more than Jimtimmy actually...
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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3/6/2012 8:26:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 8:22:50 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:14:37 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:08:19 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:03:11 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 7:18:15 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 7:08:31 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 6:36:35 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
First, let me say, that tax reform is not going to happen. It just won't. Well, at least it probably won't. I've learned that I shouldn't make definitive predictions. But, it is very unlikely that we will have any kind of tax reform.
Yep Republicans and conservative dems blocked Obama's attempt to reform the tax code.

Opposite is true. Republicans proposed tax reform and Obama blocked it.
Source that bull$hit

Here Obama proposes tax reform
http://www.nytimes.com...
And here republicans oppose it/block it
http://jmbell.org...



You are SUCH a joke. Republicans have been the only ones to propose real tax reform in the Paul Ryan Budget plan which Dems rejected. Obama has not proposed any tax reform that simplifies and lowers rates.

You are SO far off here.







At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
Yes, raising taxes on the rich will lead to them hiding more income, it will lead small businesses to have less profit to reinvest in new equipment and jobs, it will lead to reduced economic growth in the long run and short run.
Repealing the Bush taxes cuts for the rich doesn't increase small business taxes. How do you not even know the basics?
Yes it does. I don't even know how someone couldn't know this.
Reality like always disagrees with you

http://www.cbpp.org...
http://www.cbo.gov...
http://www.commondreams.org...

50% of small business income is made by businesses making more than 250k a year. Set and match.
1) ROTFL so you are to ignorant to realize that business income isn't the same as personal income... Even if ALL small business made more then 250k a year, non of them would be taxes by raising personal income taxes on income over 250,000 because the two are not the same.
2) Only 1.9% of filers who have <b>any</b> income from a small business earn 250,000 or more.
Get a clue plz.


1.) Actually, you are the ignorant one here. S-corps and LLCs pay income tax under the personal income tax system. They account for over half of American jobs.

2.) Um, but those 1.9% make 50% of the total business income.

I think you need to get a clue.
1) No people who make income from S-corps and LLC pay income taxes.
2) Um, no the 1.9% number is the number of people in the country with any income from a small businesses and also total income above 250,000.

1.) Yes. Businesses that file as an S-Corp or LLC pay income under the personal income tax system. So raising the income tax would affect them.

2.) Um, I know. But, any person who sells something on eBay is counted as having "small business income". Instead of looking at that, look at where the actual income is. Half of total small business income would see higher taxes if Obama got his way.
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jimtimmy
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3/6/2012 8:27:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 8:26:38 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:25:50 PM, imabench wrote:
Another classic Jimtimmy vs Starcraftzzz dispute

(gets popcorn and watches)

I think Starcraftzzz knows what he's talking about more than Jimtimmy actually...

Shocker, a liberal idiot thinks that another liberal idiot, who is wrong about everything, knows more than a conservative who knows what he is talking about.
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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,212
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3/6/2012 8:28:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 8:26:38 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:25:50 PM, imabench wrote:
Another classic Jimtimmy vs Starcraftzzz dispute

(gets popcorn and watches)

I think Starcraftzzz knows what he's talking about more than Jimtimmy actually...

Usually, an LLC is taxed as a partnership or a sole proprietorship, which means that the LLC pays no federal income taxes. The profits and losses are passed through to the members. Each member reports his or her share of profit or loss on his or her personal tax return. If each member owns fifty percent of the LLC, then each member will be responsible for paying fifty percent of the federal income taxes. Because only the partners or members are taxed, owners tend to avoid double taxation that would regularly apply to a corporation

Yah.. Willoweed busted you on this one I think.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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3/6/2012 8:28:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 8:27:39 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:26:38 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:25:50 PM, imabench wrote:
Another classic Jimtimmy vs Starcraftzzz dispute

(gets popcorn and watches)

I think Starcraftzzz knows what he's talking about more than Jimtimmy actually...


Shocker, a liberal idiot thinks that another liberal idiot, who is wrong about everything, knows more than a conservative who knows what he is talking about.

Thank you, I'm flattered :)
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Starcraftzzz
Posts: 487
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3/6/2012 8:30:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 8:26:43 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:22:50 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:14:37 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:08:19 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:03:11 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 7:18:15 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 7:08:31 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 6:36:35 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
First, let me say, that tax reform is not going to happen. It just won't. Well, at least it probably won't. I've learned that I shouldn't make definitive predictions. But, it is very unlikely that we will have any kind of tax reform.
Yep Republicans and conservative dems blocked Obama's attempt to reform the tax code.

Opposite is true. Republicans proposed tax reform and Obama blocked it.
Source that bull$hit

Here Obama proposes tax reform
http://www.nytimes.com...
And here republicans oppose it/block it
http://jmbell.org...



You are SUCH a joke. Republicans have been the only ones to propose real tax reform in the Paul Ryan Budget plan which Dems rejected. Obama has not proposed any tax reform that simplifies and lowers rates.

You are SO far off here.







At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
Yes, raising taxes on the rich will lead to them hiding more income, it will lead small businesses to have less profit to reinvest in new equipment and jobs, it will lead to reduced economic growth in the long run and short run.
Repealing the Bush taxes cuts for the rich doesn't increase small business taxes. How do you not even know the basics?
Yes it does. I don't even know how someone couldn't know this.
Reality like always disagrees with you

http://www.cbpp.org...
http://www.cbo.gov...
http://www.commondreams.org...

50% of small business income is made by businesses making more than 250k a year. Set and match.
1) ROTFL so you are to ignorant to realize that business income isn't the same as personal income... Even if ALL small business made more then 250k a year, non of them would be taxes by raising personal income taxes on income over 250,000 because the two are not the same.
2) Only 1.9% of filers who have <b>any</b> income from a small business earn 250,000 or more.
Get a clue plz.


1.) Actually, you are the ignorant one here. S-corps and LLCs pay income tax under the personal income tax system. They account for over half of American jobs.

2.) Um, but those 1.9% make 50% of the total business income.

I think you need to get a clue.
1) No people who make income from S-corps and LLC pay income taxes.
2) Um, no the 1.9% number is the number of people in the country with any income from a small businesses and also total income above 250,000.


1.) Yes. Businesses that file as an S-Corp or LLC pay income under the personal income tax system. So raising the income tax would affect them.

2.) Um, I know. But, any person who sells something on eBay is counted as having "small business income". Instead of looking at that, look at where the actual income is. Half of total small business income would see higher taxes if Obama got his way.

1) No it effects the income of the people paid above 250,000
2) No because Obama isn't proposing increases in business taxes but increasing in income taxes. Can you please try to think and realize that income taxes are not the same as taxes on business income.
And actually Obama is proposing dropping corporate taxes by 7%.
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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3/6/2012 8:31:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 8:28:19 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:26:38 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:25:50 PM, imabench wrote:
Another classic Jimtimmy vs Starcraftzzz dispute

(gets popcorn and watches)

I think Starcraftzzz knows what he's talking about more than Jimtimmy actually...

Usually, an LLC is taxed as a partnership or a sole proprietorship, which means that the LLC pays no federal income taxes. The profits and losses are passed through to the members. Each member reports his or her share of profit or loss on his or her personal tax return. If each member owns fifty percent of the LLC, then each member will be responsible for paying fifty percent of the federal income taxes. Because only the partners or members are taxed, owners tend to avoid double taxation that would regularly apply to a corporation

Yah.. Willoweed busted you on this one I think.

No, I am right. S-Corporations are taxed under the personal income tax system. They make up over half of employment.

LLCs can choose to be taxed as either C-corps or S-corps.

I busted him on this.
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16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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3/6/2012 8:31:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 8:30:27 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:26:43 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:22:50 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:14:37 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:08:19 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:03:11 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 7:18:15 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 7:08:31 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 6:36:35 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
First, let me say, that tax reform is not going to happen. It just won't. Well, at least it probably won't. I've learned that I shouldn't make definitive predictions. But, it is very unlikely that we will have any kind of tax reform.
Yep Republicans and conservative dems blocked Obama's attempt to reform the tax code.

Opposite is true. Republicans proposed tax reform and Obama blocked it.
Source that bull$hit

Here Obama proposes tax reform
http://www.nytimes.com...
And here republicans oppose it/block it
http://jmbell.org...



You are SUCH a joke. Republicans have been the only ones to propose real tax reform in the Paul Ryan Budget plan which Dems rejected. Obama has not proposed any tax reform that simplifies and lowers rates.

You are SO far off here.







At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
Yes, raising taxes on the rich will lead to them hiding more income, it will lead small businesses to have less profit to reinvest in new equipment and jobs, it will lead to reduced economic growth in the long run and short run.
Repealing the Bush taxes cuts for the rich doesn't increase small business taxes. How do you not even know the basics?
Yes it does. I don't even know how someone couldn't know this.
Reality like always disagrees with you

http://www.cbpp.org...
http://www.cbo.gov...
http://www.commondreams.org...

50% of small business income is made by businesses making more than 250k a year. Set and match.
1) ROTFL so you are to ignorant to realize that business income isn't the same as personal income... Even if ALL small business made more then 250k a year, non of them would be taxes by raising personal income taxes on income over 250,000 because the two are not the same.
2) Only 1.9% of filers who have <b>any</b> income from a small business earn 250,000 or more.
Get a clue plz.


1.) Actually, you are the ignorant one here. S-corps and LLCs pay income tax under the personal income tax system. They account for over half of American jobs.

2.) Um, but those 1.9% make 50% of the total business income.

I think you need to get a clue.
1) No people who make income from S-corps and LLC pay income taxes.
2) Um, no the 1.9% number is the number of people in the country with any income from a small businesses and also total income above 250,000.


1.) Yes. Businesses that file as an S-Corp or LLC pay income under the personal income tax system. So raising the income tax would affect them.

2.) Um, I know. But, any person who sells something on eBay is counted as having "small business income". Instead of looking at that, look at where the actual income is. Half of total small business income would see higher taxes if Obama got his way.

1) No it effects the income of the people paid above 250,000
2) No because Obama isn't proposing increases in business taxes but increasing in income taxes. Can you please try to think and realize that income taxes are not the same as taxes on business income.
And actually Obama is proposing dropping corporate taxes by 7%.

1) how about 230,000? http://www.zdnet.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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3/6/2012 8:32:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
OK EVERYONE SIGN UP IF YOU WANNA BE ONE

Liberal idiots
1 Imabench
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Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

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DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
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VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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3/6/2012 8:33:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 8:32:28 PM, imabench wrote:
OK EVERYONE SIGN UP IF YOU WANNA BE ONE

Liberal idiots
1 Imabench
2 16k
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ohh ohh I love lower incomes and bad economies XD
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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3/6/2012 8:33:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 8:30:27 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:26:43 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:22:50 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:14:37 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:08:19 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:03:11 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 7:18:15 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 7:08:31 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 6:36:35 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
First, let me say, that tax reform is not going to happen. It just won't. Well, at least it probably won't. I've learned that I shouldn't make definitive predictions. But, it is very unlikely that we will have any kind of tax reform.
Yep Republicans and conservative dems blocked Obama's attempt to reform the tax code.

Opposite is true. Republicans proposed tax reform and Obama blocked it.
Source that bull$hit

Here Obama proposes tax reform
http://www.nytimes.com...
And here republicans oppose it/block it
http://jmbell.org...



You are SUCH a joke. Republicans have been the only ones to propose real tax reform in the Paul Ryan Budget plan which Dems rejected. Obama has not proposed any tax reform that simplifies and lowers rates.

You are SO far off here.







At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
Yes, raising taxes on the rich will lead to them hiding more income, it will lead small businesses to have less profit to reinvest in new equipment and jobs, it will lead to reduced economic growth in the long run and short run.
Repealing the Bush taxes cuts for the rich doesn't increase small business taxes. How do you not even know the basics?
Yes it does. I don't even know how someone couldn't know this.
Reality like always disagrees with you

http://www.cbpp.org...
http://www.cbo.gov...
http://www.commondreams.org...

50% of small business income is made by businesses making more than 250k a year. Set and match.
1) ROTFL so you are to ignorant to realize that business income isn't the same as personal income... Even if ALL small business made more then 250k a year, non of them would be taxes by raising personal income taxes on income over 250,000 because the two are not the same.
2) Only 1.9% of filers who have <b>any</b> income from a small business earn 250,000 or more.
Get a clue plz.


1.) Actually, you are the ignorant one here. S-corps and LLCs pay income tax under the personal income tax system. They account for over half of American jobs.

2.) Um, but those 1.9% make 50% of the total business income.

I think you need to get a clue.
1) No people who make income from S-corps and LLC pay income taxes.
2) Um, no the 1.9% number is the number of people in the country with any income from a small businesses and also total income above 250,000.


1.) Yes. Businesses that file as an S-Corp or LLC pay income under the personal income tax system. So raising the income tax would affect them.

2.) Um, I know. But, any person who sells something on eBay is counted as having "small business income". Instead of looking at that, look at where the actual income is. Half of total small business income would see higher taxes if Obama got his way.

1) No it effects the income of the people paid above 250,000
2) No because Obama isn't proposing increases in business taxes but increasing in income taxes. Can you please try to think and realize that income taxes are not the same as taxes on business income.
And actually Obama is proposing dropping corporate taxes by 7%.

1.) Yes, and a lot of people filing as individuals making over 250,000 own small businesses.

2.) Ya, but most businesses are taxed under the personal income tax which Obama wants to raise. This is not even really debatable.

And, Obama is going to raise other parts of the corporate tax to make up for that.
President of DDO
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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3/6/2012 8:34:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 8:27:39 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:26:38 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:25:50 PM, imabench wrote:
Another classic Jimtimmy vs Starcraftzzz dispute

(gets popcorn and watches)

I think Starcraftzzz knows what he's talking about more than Jimtimmy actually...


Shocker, a liberal idiot thinks that another liberal idiot, who is wrong about everything, knows more than a conservative who knows what he is talking about.

I think jim has less sources, but actually makes more economic sense right now...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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3/6/2012 8:36:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Here's what I have to say about Starcraftzzz.

I have never seen anyone fit so many sources into so few facts.
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Starcraftzzz
Posts: 487
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3/7/2012 11:17:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 8:33:50 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:30:27 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:26:43 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:22:50 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:14:37 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:08:19 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 8:03:11 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 7:18:15 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 7:08:31 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 6:36:35 PM, Starcraftzzz wrote:
At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
First, let me say, that tax reform is not going to happen. It just won't. Well, at least it probably won't. I've learned that I shouldn't make definitive predictions. But, it is very unlikely that we will have any kind of tax reform.
Yep Republicans and conservative dems blocked Obama's attempt to reform the tax code.

Opposite is true. Republicans proposed tax reform and Obama blocked it.
Source that bull$hit

Here Obama proposes tax reform
http://www.nytimes.com...
And here republicans oppose it/block it
http://jmbell.org...



You are SUCH a joke. Republicans have been the only ones to propose real tax reform in the Paul Ryan Budget plan which Dems rejected. Obama has not proposed any tax reform that simplifies and lowers rates.

You are SO far off here.







At 3/6/2012 4:33:59 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
Yes, raising taxes on the rich will lead to them hiding more income, it will lead small businesses to have less profit to reinvest in new equipment and jobs, it will lead to reduced economic growth in the long run and short run.
Repealing the Bush taxes cuts for the rich doesn't increase small business taxes. How do you not even know the basics?
Yes it does. I don't even know how someone couldn't know this.
Reality like always disagrees with you

http://www.cbpp.org...
http://www.cbo.gov...
http://www.commondreams.org...

50% of small business income is made by businesses making more than 250k a year. Set and match.
1) ROTFL so you are to ignorant to realize that business income isn't the same as personal income... Even if ALL small business made more then 250k a year, non of them would be taxes by raising personal income taxes on income over 250,000 because the two are not the same.
2) Only 1.9% of filers who have <b>any</b> income from a small business earn 250,000 or more.
Get a clue plz.


1.) Actually, you are the ignorant one here. S-corps and LLCs pay income tax under the personal income tax system. They account for over half of American jobs.

2.) Um, but those 1.9% make 50% of the total business income.

I think you need to get a clue.
1) No people who make income from S-corps and LLC pay income taxes.
2) Um, no the 1.9% number is the number of people in the country with any income from a small businesses and also total income above 250,000.


1.) Yes. Businesses that file as an S-Corp or LLC pay income under the personal income tax system. So raising the income tax would affect them.

2.) Um, I know. But, any person who sells something on eBay is counted as having "small business income". Instead of looking at that, look at where the actual income is. Half of total small business income would see higher taxes if Obama got his way.

1) No it effects the income of the people paid above 250,000
2) No because Obama isn't proposing increases in business taxes but increasing in income taxes. Can you please try to think and realize that income taxes are not the same as taxes on business income.
And actually Obama is proposing dropping corporate taxes by 7%.


1.) Yes, and a lot of people filing as individuals making over 250,000 own small businesses.

2.) Ya, but most businesses are taxed under the personal income tax which Obama wants to raise. This is not even really debatable.

And, Obama is going to raise other parts of the corporate tax to make up for that.

1) Yes and taxing that income doesn't increase taxes on small business, it increases taxes on income above 250,000
2) No idiot business owners who make a salary are taxed under income taxes. SO basically you are saying that any tax on income is a tax one business when in reality its not. Even right wingers have posted on how stupid you are being
3) Yes he plans to simplfy the tax code and make it so Big business such as oil don't pay a negative tax rate while small ones are stuck paying the top rate.