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The Ignorance of Liberals

jimtimmy
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3/6/2012 9:32:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I have to say, I am honestly appalled at the ignorance of liberals.

I am truly at a loss.

I came to realize that the ignorance is based in their perception of the causes of certain problems.

There is a fundamental ignorance about the causes of certain problems on the left.

High health care costs?

Blame the free market and greedy Insurance executives.

High gas costs?

Blame the free market and greedy oil executives.

Financial collapse?

Blame the free market and greedy bankers push for deregulation.

Large deficit?

Blame the rich for not paying enough taxes.

These are not strawmen. These are real things that liberals believe.

This is why they think insane ideas like single payer health care, windfall profits taxes, more regulations, or price controls will work.

It really is scary that these people have the presidency and Senate.
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OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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3/6/2012 9:33:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
JT....don't start down this flame war.....you don't know were it will go....
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jimtimmy
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3/6/2012 9:33:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:33:13 PM, OberHerr wrote:
JT....don't start down this flame war.....you don't know were it will go....

This is not a flame war. This is not about attacking members or anything personal.

Read the post, it is a serious thread.
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darkkermit
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3/6/2012 9:34:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:33:13 PM, OberHerr wrote:
JT....don't start down this flame war.....you don't know were it will go....

THIS!
Open borders debate:
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OberHerr
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3/6/2012 9:34:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:33:46 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:33:13 PM, OberHerr wrote:
JT....don't start down this flame war.....you don't know were it will go....


This is not a flame war. This is not about attacking members or anything personal.

Read the post, it is a serious thread.

I know, but how much you wanna bet thats what its gonna turn into?
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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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3/6/2012 9:35:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The politics section is really cluttered lately, it gives me a disorganized feeling. Can you all not make random threads for a while and let these ones die down. Then we can go back to juggling 1-3 threads per forum category like usual.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
jimtimmy
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3/6/2012 9:36:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
To be clear, this is in no way a flame war. I really hope it doesn't turn into one. Just read the OP before making accusations.
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darkkermit
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3/6/2012 9:36:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:34:32 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:33:46 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:33:13 PM, OberHerr wrote:
JT....don't start down this flame war.....you don't know were it will go....


This is not a flame war. This is not about attacking members or anything personal.

Read the post, it is a serious thread.

I know, but how much you wanna bet thats what its gonna turn into?

an attack on someone's political ideology is an attack on someone. Even if you don't think so, people will think so.
Open borders debate:
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thett3
Posts: 14,334
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3/6/2012 9:37:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
lmfao, a flame war over whether this thread will cause a flame war
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jimtimmy
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3/6/2012 9:37:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:36:29 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:34:32 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:33:46 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:33:13 PM, OberHerr wrote:
JT....don't start down this flame war.....you don't know were it will go....


This is not a flame war. This is not about attacking members or anything personal.

Read the post, it is a serious thread.

I know, but how much you wanna bet thats what its gonna turn into?

an attack on someone's political ideology is an attack on someone. Even if you don't think so, people will think so.

I am all against attacks on individuals. But, this is a debate website and this is the politics section.

Attacks on political ideaology seem like fair game. In fact, it is actually kind of the main thing here.
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JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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3/6/2012 9:37:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:32:25 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
I have to say, I am honestly appalled at the ignorance of liberals.

I am truly at a loss.

I came to realize that the ignorance is based in their perception of the causes of certain problems.

There is a fundamental ignorance about the causes of certain problems on the left.

High health care costs?

Blame the free market and greedy Insurance executives.

I know. HC Insurance companies have a 4.5% profit margin, but they are blamed for the high costs.

Nobody would be complaining if their $10,000 surgery only cost $9,550(and the insurance companies went bankrupt).

http://biz.yahoo.com...

High gas costs?

Blame the free market and greedy oil executives.


This one's worse. Oil companies get between 3 and 7% profit margins!!!!

Financial collapse?

Blame the free market and greedy bankers push for deregulation.


Large deficit?

Blame the rich for not paying enough taxes.


Yeah, them paying twice their fair share obviously isn't enough.
These are not strawmen. These are real things that liberals believe.

This is why they think insane ideas like single payer health care, windfall profits taxes, more regulations, or price controls will work.

It really is scary that these people have the presidency and Senate.

It's sad really.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
jimtimmy
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3/6/2012 9:38:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:37:49 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:32:25 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
I have to say, I am honestly appalled at the ignorance of liberals.

I am truly at a loss.

I came to realize that the ignorance is based in their perception of the causes of certain problems.

There is a fundamental ignorance about the causes of certain problems on the left.

High health care costs?

Blame the free market and greedy Insurance executives.

I know. HC Insurance companies have a 4.5% profit margin, but they are blamed for the high costs.

Nobody would be complaining if their $10,000 surgery only cost $9,550(and the insurance companies went bankrupt).

http://biz.yahoo.com...

High gas costs?

Blame the free market and greedy oil executives.



This one's worse. Oil companies get between 3 and 7% profit margins!!!!

Financial collapse?

Blame the free market and greedy bankers push for deregulation.


Large deficit?

Blame the rich for not paying enough taxes.


Yeah, them paying twice their fair share obviously isn't enough.
These are not strawmen. These are real things that liberals believe.

This is why they think insane ideas like single payer health care, windfall profits taxes, more regulations, or price controls will work.

It really is scary that these people have the presidency and Senate.


It's sad really.

+1
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OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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3/6/2012 9:38:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:35:24 PM, 000ike wrote:
The politics section is really cluttered lately, it gives me a disorganized feeling. Can you all not make random threads for a while and let these ones die down. Then we can go back to juggling 1-3 threads per forum category like usual.

For once, I agreed perfectly with 000ike on this.
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OberHerr
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3/6/2012 9:40:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
and, JT, I'm not disagreeing with your post, I'm just warning you.

I agreed with almost everything you said, if not all.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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Contra
Posts: 3,941
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3/6/2012 9:41:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It isn't that liberals are anti-market. In reality, liberals are for usually for Capitalism, but think that the government can smooth out some of the cracks left by Capitalism.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
jimtimmy
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3/6/2012 9:41:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:40:55 PM, OberHerr wrote:
and, JT, I'm not disagreeing with your post, I'm just warning you.

I agreed with almost everything you said, if not all.

Is it the title?

I'm starting to think I should have given it a different title.
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OberHerr
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3/6/2012 9:42:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:41:52 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:40:55 PM, OberHerr wrote:
and, JT, I'm not disagreeing with your post, I'm just warning you.

I agreed with almost everything you said, if not all.


Is it the title?

I'm starting to think I should have given it a different title.

Yeah, perhaps something less.....offensive would have been better.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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Contra
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3/6/2012 9:44:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:42:52 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:41:52 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:40:55 PM, OberHerr wrote:
and, JT, I'm not disagreeing with your post, I'm just warning you.

I agreed with almost everything you said, if not all.


Is it the title?

I'm starting to think I should have given it a different title.

Yeah, perhaps something less.....offensive would have been better.

You guys complain about Tax-and-Spend Liberals, I think more people should complain about Tax-and-Bankrupt Conservatives.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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3/6/2012 9:44:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:41:45 PM, Contra wrote:
It isn't that liberals are anti-market. In reality, liberals are for usually for Capitalism, but think that the government can smooth out some of the cracks left by Capitalism.

Unfortunately the government can't run anything more efficiently than the market because it has no incentive to do so.
jimtimmy
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3/6/2012 9:44:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:41:45 PM, Contra wrote:
It isn't that liberals are anti-market. In reality, liberals are for usually for Capitalism, but think that the government can smooth out some of the cracks left by Capitalism.

See, that's fine. I am not calling liberal ignorant for the ideas they support. I am calling some liberals ignorant for holding certain views of problems.

For instance, a liberal can advocate single payer and not be ignorant. However, a liberal who thinks that health care is so expensive because of greedy CEOs and the free market is ignorant. You see what I mean?
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jimtimmy
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3/6/2012 9:45:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:44:28 PM, Contra wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:42:52 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:41:52 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:40:55 PM, OberHerr wrote:
and, JT, I'm not disagreeing with your post, I'm just warning you.

I agreed with almost everything you said, if not all.


Is it the title?

I'm starting to think I should have given it a different title.

Yeah, perhaps something less.....offensive would have been better.

You guys complain about Tax-and-Spend Liberals, I think more people should complain about Tax-and-Bankrupt Conservatives.

How about the tax, spend, and bankrupt liberals?

Like Obama.
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ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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3/6/2012 9:46:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:44:47 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:41:45 PM, Contra wrote:
It isn't that liberals are anti-market. In reality, liberals are for usually for Capitalism, but think that the government can smooth out some of the cracks left by Capitalism.

See, that's fine. I am not calling liberal ignorant for the ideas they support. I am calling some liberals ignorant for holding certain views of problems.

For instance, a liberal can advocate single payer and not be ignorant. However, a liberal who thinks that health care is so expensive because of greedy CEOs and the free market is ignorant. You see what I mean?

I can see where you're coming from. Some liberal perceptions could be considered ignorant.

But the same goes for perceptions in every ideology.
Contra
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3/6/2012 9:46:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:44:47 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:41:45 PM, Contra wrote:
It isn't that liberals are anti-market. In reality, liberals are for usually for Capitalism, but think that the government can smooth out some of the cracks left by Capitalism.

See, that's fine. I am not calling liberal ignorant for the ideas they support. I am calling some liberals ignorant for holding certain views of problems.

For instance, a liberal can advocate single payer and not be ignorant. However, a liberal who thinks that health care is so expensive because of greedy CEOs and the free market is ignorant. You see what I mean?

Healthcare isn't for the most part caused by greedy CEO's. It is caused by the for-profit system with high administrative costs, marketing and profit costs, etc.

But yes, I am annoyed when ignorant liberals complain over fallacies. For example, high tariffs.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
ConservativePolitico
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3/6/2012 9:48:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:46:52 PM, Contra wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:44:47 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:41:45 PM, Contra wrote:
It isn't that liberals are anti-market. In reality, liberals are for usually for Capitalism, but think that the government can smooth out some of the cracks left by Capitalism.

See, that's fine. I am not calling liberal ignorant for the ideas they support. I am calling some liberals ignorant for holding certain views of problems.

For instance, a liberal can advocate single payer and not be ignorant. However, a liberal who thinks that health care is so expensive because of greedy CEOs and the free market is ignorant. You see what I mean?

Healthcare isn't for the most part caused by greedy CEO's. It is caused by the for-profit system with high administrative costs, marketing and profit costs, etc.

But yes, I am annoyed when ignorant liberals complain over fallacies. For example, high tariffs.

Unfortunately profit is what drives a free market system.

And there is nothing wrong with profit. What's wrong with making money? You can only make money if you are competitive.
JaxsonRaine
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3/6/2012 9:49:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:46:52 PM, Contra wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:44:47 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:41:45 PM, Contra wrote:
It isn't that liberals are anti-market. In reality, liberals are for usually for Capitalism, but think that the government can smooth out some of the cracks left by Capitalism.

See, that's fine. I am not calling liberal ignorant for the ideas they support. I am calling some liberals ignorant for holding certain views of problems.

For instance, a liberal can advocate single payer and not be ignorant. However, a liberal who thinks that health care is so expensive because of greedy CEOs and the free market is ignorant. You see what I mean?

Healthcare isn't for the most part caused by greedy CEO's. It is caused by the for-profit system with high administrative costs, marketing and profit costs, etc.

But yes, I am annoyed when ignorant liberals complain over fallacies. For example, high tariffs.

I'll have to find this again, but I found a study that compared the average cost for each type of healthcare service as a % of GDP to find out what areas were much higher than they would be expected to be by looking at other countries. If I remember, the salaries for doctors/nurses was one of, if not the largest factor.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
rogue
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3/6/2012 9:50:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:32:25 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
I have to say, I am honestly appalled at the ignorance of liberals.

I am truly at a loss.

Ok first of all, don't group liberals all together like this. It's insulting and shows how ignorant you are. Second of all, stop acting like you have the objective truth. You don't, so stop being a condescending jackass.

I came to realize that the ignorance is based in their perception of the causes of certain problems.

There is a fundamental ignorance about the causes of certain problems on the left.

High health care costs?

Blame the free market and greedy Insurance executives.

I don't have a problem with this, most liberals don't, the conservatives however....

High gas costs?


Blame the free market and greedy oil executives.

Yeah I do blame the oil execs! They are only concerned with profit! They keep us from investing and progressing with alternative, renewable energy.

Financial collapse?


Blame the free market and greedy bankers push for deregulation.

No, I blame the greedy corporations who exploit everyone and everything to make the most profit. That is what the capitalist system teaches. The problem is that they get cocky and make bad business decisions that we have to pay for. That is just a fact! Look at the cause of the housing bubble!


Large deficit?

Blame the rich for not paying enough taxes.

I don't blame them, but it would help if they paid higher taxes. Up until the last 20-30 years, their taxes were much higher and they had no problem paying them and the economy was fine.


These are not strawmen. These are real things that liberals believe.

This is why they think insane ideas like single payer health care, windfall profits taxes, more regulations, or price controls will work.

It really is scary that these people have the presidency and Senate.

Ok now I see exactly how ignorant you are. Obama is not a liberal. Look at political compass.com. he is actually close to the middle and not even close to the socialist/liberal side.
Contra
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3/6/2012 9:50:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:48:43 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:46:52 PM, Contra wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:44:47 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:41:45 PM, Contra wrote:
It isn't that liberals are anti-market. In reality, liberals are for usually for Capitalism, but think that the government can smooth out some of the cracks left by Capitalism.

See, that's fine. I am not calling liberal ignorant for the ideas they support. I am calling some liberals ignorant for holding certain views of problems.

For instance, a liberal can advocate single payer and not be ignorant. However, a liberal who thinks that health care is so expensive because of greedy CEOs and the free market is ignorant. You see what I mean?

Healthcare isn't for the most part caused by greedy CEO's. It is caused by the for-profit system with high administrative costs, marketing and profit costs, etc.

But yes, I am annoyed when ignorant liberals complain over fallacies. For example, high tariffs.

Unfortunately profit is what drives a free market system.

And there is nothing wrong with profit. What's wrong with making money? You can only make money if you are competitive.

I didn't say something was wrong with profit. Healthcare is the only exception though ------ someone shouldn't profit over somebody's death (private insurance won't pay for expensive treatment)
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
FREEDO
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3/6/2012 9:52:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I KNOW THE TRUTH AND EVERYBODY ELSE IS JUST STUPID. WHEN THEY EXPRESS THEIR OPINIONS IT MAKES ME SICK.

nac
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thett3
Posts: 14,334
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3/6/2012 9:53:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This is my only post that I'll make in this thread.

Ignorant people are ignorant. Not liberals, conservatives, libertarians, anarchists, moderates, greens, socialists, communists, or anyone else. Calling entire groups of people ignorant just because they hold differing opinions is foolish, and that kind of bickering is a big reason why we're in the mess we currently are.
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#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right