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Voter ID

Starcraftzzz
Posts: 487
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3/7/2012 6:34:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What is the real purpose of Voter ID laws, and what do they actually do? Are they as conservative" say the only way to prevent rigged elections/fraudulent voting, or are they has liberals say "something that only makes it so millions cannot excessive their right to vote?

http://www.factcheck.org...
^Over a 5 year period the government only convicted 70 people of voter fraud, this would equal .0000002% of 2 millionth of a percent.

http://www.opednews.com...
^At least 5 million voters were disenfranchised in the 2008 election. They showed up to vote but encountered registration problems.
^At least 2 million voters were discouraged from voting due to long lines or voter identification requirements or 6% of the total amount of people who voted in 2008

http://www.guardian.co.uk...
^Around 21 million Americans or 17% of the people who voted in 2008 do not currently contain the type of photo ID that states are requiring.

AP (news owned and run by conservatives) found that voter ID laws effected minorities more then whites. A GOP strategist then tweeted that this is the reason we need the vote ID laws.
http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com...
https://twitter.com...

In Wisconsin Republicans passed voter ID laws, and then shut down locations to get the ID only in black neighborhoods and kept them open for longer periods in Republican neighborhoods
http://wisconsinwave.org...
http://www.searchingforchetbaker.com...
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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3/7/2012 7:35:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You forgot acorn did a huge scandal, and they only arrested the top officials, but they cast thousands of false ballots. http://www.weirdrepublic.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Starcraftzzz
Posts: 487
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3/7/2012 8:07:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/7/2012 7:35:33 PM, 16kadams wrote:
You forgot acorn did a huge scandal, and they only arrested the top officials, but they cast thousands of false ballots. http://www.weirdrepublic.com...

When you actually read the details you find that no false /fraudulent votes were cast.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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3/7/2012 8:46:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You have to have an ID to buy liquor, you have to have an ID to buy a plane ticket, you have to have an ID to get a friggen library card, but, when people suggest that you have to have an ID in order to vote for the leaders of the most powerful nation on Earth, its a big racist conspiracy.
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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,325
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3/7/2012 8:51:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
As long as we have no way of detecting fraud, we can continue to have no way of tracking fraud. Assume zero fraud then in the absence of data. Starcraftland.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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3/7/2012 9:24:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Step 1:
Google "voter id laws are bad"
Step 2:
Briefly read what the study said
Step 3:
Post a bunch of links on DDO indicating that my position is right.
Step 4:
If anybody questions the validity of the studies or logic, call them stupid conservatives because you aren't really thinking about the issue, your just trying to prove your own validity. If challenged to a debate, refuse it.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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3/7/2012 9:25:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/7/2012 9:24:02 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Step 1:
Google "voter id laws are bad"
Step 2:
Briefly read what the study said
Step 3:
Post a bunch of links on DDO indicating that my position is right.
Step 4:
If anybody questions the validity of the studies or logic, call them stupid conservatives because you aren't really thinking about the issue, your just trying to prove your own validity. If challenged to a debate, refuse it.

I dub this, the StarCraftzzz Creed!
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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3/7/2012 9:34:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/7/2012 9:24:02 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Step 1:
Google "voter id laws are bad"
Step 2:
Briefly read what the study said
Step 3:
Post a bunch of links on DDO indicating that my position is right.
Step 4:
If anybody questions the validity of the studies or logic, call them stupid conservatives because you aren't really thinking about the issue, your just trying to prove your own validity. If challenged to a debate, refuse it.

+1

Besides, what is Starcraftzzz arguments against them?

Why should people not have to present and ID? What are you saying Starcraftzzz?
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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3/8/2012 1:29:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
One can make all the arguments they want over whether we should or we shouldn't have more strict voter ID laws. The fact of the matter is that this is not about whether people who vote should have ID's, this is about impacting minorities so that they will not vote. It's not a racist thing, it's pure politics. And just another example of how republicans seem more concerned with winning elections then solving real problems.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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3/8/2012 1:41:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 1:29:12 AM, Double_R wrote:
One can make all the arguments they want over whether we should or we shouldn't have more strict voter ID laws. The fact of the matter is that this is not about whether people who vote should have ID's, this is about impacting minorities so that they will not vote. It's not a racist thing, it's pure politics. And just another example of how republicans seem more concerned with winning elections then solving real problems.
Open borders debate:
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Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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3/8/2012 2:41:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 1:41:19 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 3/8/2012 1:29:12 AM, Double_R wrote:
One can make all the arguments they want over whether we should or we shouldn't have more strict voter ID laws. The fact of the matter is that this is not about whether people who vote should have ID's, this is about impacting minorities so that they will not vote. It's not a racist thing, it's pure politics. And just another example of how republicans seem more concerned with winning elections then solving real problems.



That was 5 minutes of my life I will never get back...

I never said that republicans are wrong on this issue. For what it's worth I agree with the idea that people who vote should have ID. My point is the fact that the only reason republicans are attacking this issue is because minorities are less likely to have ID, and are more likely to vote Democratic. This has nothing to do with solving real problems. This is about using their power so that they can change the system in their favor to help win elections.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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3/8/2012 2:46:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 2:41:02 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/8/2012 1:41:19 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 3/8/2012 1:29:12 AM, Double_R wrote:
One can make all the arguments they want over whether we should or we shouldn't have more strict voter ID laws. The fact of the matter is that this is not about whether people who vote should have ID's, this is about impacting minorities so that they will not vote. It's not a racist thing, it's pure politics. And just another example of how republicans seem more concerned with winning elections then solving real problems.



That was 5 minutes of my life I will never get back...

I never said that republicans are wrong on this issue. For what it's worth I agree with the idea that people who vote should have ID. My point is the fact that the only reason republicans are attacking this issue is because minorities are less likely to have ID, and are more likely to vote Democratic. This has nothing to do with solving real problems. This is about using their power so that they can change the system in their favor to help win elections.

So you're just going to assume Republicans are doing this for malice reasons even though you yourself agree with voter IDs? As Lee Doren said in his video, the amount of contempt you'd have to have for your voters to state that they can't even go out and get an ID is ridiculous. And to say it is harmful to "minorities" is racist.
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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3/8/2012 3:01:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 2:46:30 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 3/8/2012 2:41:02 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/8/2012 1:41:19 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 3/8/2012 1:29:12 AM, Double_R wrote:
One can make all the arguments they want over whether we should or we shouldn't have more strict voter ID laws. The fact of the matter is that this is not about whether people who vote should have ID's, this is about impacting minorities so that they will not vote. It's not a racist thing, it's pure politics. And just another example of how republicans seem more concerned with winning elections then solving real problems.



That was 5 minutes of my life I will never get back...

I never said that republicans are wrong on this issue. For what it's worth I agree with the idea that people who vote should have ID. My point is the fact that the only reason republicans are attacking this issue is because minorities are less likely to have ID, and are more likely to vote Democratic. This has nothing to do with solving real problems. This is about using their power so that they can change the system in their favor to help win elections.

So you're just going to assume Republicans are doing this for malice reasons even though you yourself agree with voter IDs? As Lee Doren said in his video, the amount of contempt you'd have to have for your voters to state that they can't even go out and get an ID is ridiculous. And to say it is harmful to "minorities" is racist.

Scratch that, you didn't say it was harmful to minorities, just that minorities are less likely to have IDs. My apologies.
Open borders debate:
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Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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3/8/2012 3:20:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 2:46:30 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 3/8/2012 2:41:02 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/8/2012 1:41:19 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 3/8/2012 1:29:12 AM, Double_R wrote:
One can make all the arguments they want over whether we should or we shouldn't have more strict voter ID laws. The fact of the matter is that this is not about whether people who vote should have ID's, this is about impacting minorities so that they will not vote. It's not a racist thing, it's pure politics. And just another example of how republicans seem more concerned with winning elections then solving real problems.



That was 5 minutes of my life I will never get back...

I never said that republicans are wrong on this issue. For what it's worth I agree with the idea that people who vote should have ID. My point is the fact that the only reason republicans are attacking this issue is because minorities are less likely to have ID, and are more likely to vote Democratic. This has nothing to do with solving real problems. This is about using their power so that they can change the system in their favor to help win elections.

So you're just going to assume Republicans are doing this for malice reasons even though you yourself agree with voter IDs? As Lee Doren said in his video, the amount of contempt you'd have to have for your voters to state that they can't even go out and get an ID is ridiculous. And to say it is harmful to "minorities" is racist.

I assume it because with as many interviews as I have seen on this issue, I have yet to see anyone even attempt to answer to a very simple question: why after all these years are we suddenly focused on this issue? Normally when a system is shown to be broken we react. When we react to a system that is not broken it is an indication that either A) we have nothing better to focus on or B) there is an ulterior motive.

The system (utilized throughout the history of this country) has not shown itself to be broken and we clearly have better things to focus on. That leaves B) there is an ulterior motive.

When someone can provide a reasonable answer to my question I will change my assumptions accordingly.
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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3/8/2012 1:27:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 1:29:12 AM, Double_R wrote:
One can make all the arguments they want over whether we should or we shouldn't have more strict voter ID laws. The fact of the matter is that this is not about whether people who vote should have ID's, this is about impacting minorities so that they will not vote. It's not a racist thing, it's pure politics. And just another example of how republicans seem more concerned with winning elections then solving real problems.

Bull it isn't the GOP who want it.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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3/8/2012 2:55:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 3:20:28 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/8/2012 2:46:30 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 3/8/2012 2:41:02 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/8/2012 1:41:19 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 3/8/2012 1:29:12 AM, Double_R wrote:
One can make all the arguments they want over whether we should or we shouldn't have more strict voter ID laws. The fact of the matter is that this is not about whether people who vote should have ID's, this is about impacting minorities so that they will not vote. It's not a racist thing, it's pure politics. And just another example of how republicans seem more concerned with winning elections then solving real problems.



That was 5 minutes of my life I will never get back...

I never said that republicans are wrong on this issue. For what it's worth I agree with the idea that people who vote should have ID. My point is the fact that the only reason republicans are attacking this issue is because minorities are less likely to have ID, and are more likely to vote Democratic. This has nothing to do with solving real problems. This is about using their power so that they can change the system in their favor to help win elections.

So you're just going to assume Republicans are doing this for malice reasons even though you yourself agree with voter IDs? As Lee Doren said in his video, the amount of contempt you'd have to have for your voters to state that they can't even go out and get an ID is ridiculous. And to say it is harmful to "minorities" is racist.

I assume it because with as many interviews as I have seen on this issue, I have yet to see anyone even attempt to answer to a very simple question: why after all these years are we suddenly focused on this issue? Normally when a system is shown to be broken we react. When we react to a system that is not broken it is an indication that either A) we have nothing better to focus on or B) there is an ulterior motive.

The system (utilized throughout the history of this country) has not shown itself to be broken and we clearly have better things to focus on. That leaves B) there is an ulterior motive.

When someone can provide a reasonable answer to my question I will change my assumptions accordingly.

So your assumption is that because there has been more focus on the issue of voter ID before, the reason they are focusing on this now is because "it must be because the republicans have an ulterior motive".

ACORN anyone?

Furthermore, what policy the public focuses on his a subject to many fluctuation based on completely unpredictable reasons. Why the uprise in Kony? There must be some ulterior motive! That's a nonsense premise.

Furthermore, If there is some ulterior motive, then it still doesn't explain why they are focusing on it "now". Let's say they are focusing on this reason for A, B, or C. If C = ulterior motive, you're telling me that only ulterior motives are the reasons an issue can "spontaneous become interesting".

Also let's say you're right, that republicans are thinking "hmm....you know what would be a great idea, if voter ID laws were passed so minorities are less likely to vote." How would they able to coordinate this message and create the mass media and public support, when they clearly can't communicate this message publicly.

Your logic just doesn't follow.
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Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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3/10/2012 1:43:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 2:55:40 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 3/8/2012 3:20:28 AM, Double_R wrote:
I assume it because with as many interviews as I have seen on this issue, I have yet to see anyone even attempt to answer to a very simple question: why after all these years are we suddenly focused on this issue? Normally when a system is shown to be broken we react. When we react to a system that is not broken it is an indication that either A) we have nothing better to focus on or B) there is an ulterior motive.

The system (utilized throughout the history of this country) has not shown itself to be broken and we clearly have better things to focus on. That leaves B) there is an ulterior motive.

When someone can provide a reasonable answer to my question I will change my assumptions accordingly.

So your assumption is that because there has been more focus on the issue of voter ID before, the reason they are focusing on this now is because "it must be because the republicans have an ulterior motive".

ACORN anyone?

Furthermore, what policy the public focuses on his a subject to many fluctuation based on completely unpredictable reasons. Why the uprise in Kony? There must be some ulterior motive! That's a nonsense premise.

Furthermore, If there is some ulterior motive, then it still doesn't explain why they are focusing on it "now". Let's say they are focusing on this reason for A, B, or C. If C = ulterior motive, you're telling me that only ulterior motives are the reasons an issue can "spontaneous become interesting".

Also let's say you're right, that republicans are thinking "hmm....you know what would be a great idea, if voter ID laws were passed so minorities are less likely to vote." How would they able to coordinate this message and create the mass media and public support, when they clearly can't communicate this message publicly.

Your logic just doesn't follow.

Did you actually think about why the sudden up rise in Kony before you asked, or do you just prefer ask silly questions so that I can do the thinking? The situation behind Kony was unknown to most until a documentary on it went viral, attracting 30 million youtube hits over the course of a weekend. People found out about the human rights violations going on and were outraged by it. Naturally, politicians reacted.

Can you please explain what the benefits will be to changing the current voting system? Can you show me what harm is being caused by the current system? Do you realize that these changes will inevitably lead to American citizens being denied the most basic right of democracy; the right to vote?

So let's go back to my first question. Why are they suddenly focused on this issue? I doubt you know, I don't either. If that is the case then which is more reasonable to believe; that their "you can't get on a plane without ID" argument alone warrants their attention despite my questions above and despite the fact that the country faces more problems and is more divided then it has ever been, or does the fact that this change would help them win elections lead them to a biased conclusion that the "you can't get on a plane without ID" argument is actually important?
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,325
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3/10/2012 10:09:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
What is more important, the right to vote, or the right to have your vote matter?

Think about this clearly, both political parties have equal access to casting fraudulent ballots in the absence of identification; shameful stealing of elections at the whim of power. This is why it was never a front issue, like Kony.

It took the immigration problem to finally nudge one party to do the right thing for the people. The people kinda know that election fraud goes on but they can't detect it and it does not get public press... kinda like the mass genocide that does not get public press other than Kony.

To say that this issue is all about disenfranchisement of the poor is silly, like Kony is some big conspiracy for something else. It is simply a knee-jerk reaction from GOP to stop waves of illegal immigrants from voting, not some massive scheme to disenfranchise all poor legal voters.

It is sad that it takes the Devil you know to finally eliminate the Devil you don't know; that it takes the greater of two evils to finally have legitimate elections where your vote actually does matter, no matter who you are.