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Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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3/7/2012 6:45:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Other than the petty altruistic argument which hold no water, why do all of those Pro getting rid of Kony supporters want the US to interfere in the matters of a country half way around the world that is on the verge of Civil War when we have $15 trillion of debt back here (that was a long sentence).

I want to hear a valid argument (which I likely will not hear) on why the US should go into Uganda.

Go.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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3/7/2012 6:48:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It would be mentally deficient for Eagleland to attack Uganda. That is why they will do it. And the retarded British Government will be behind them every bloody step of the way.
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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3/7/2012 6:50:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I am for the USA intervening to protect USA interests. That includes getting rid of terrorist groups and trying to keep a degree of international stability.

Having said that, I don't know enough about this specific situation to take a position. I do know that the LRA has done some extremely violent thing. I also know that they are fighting radical muslims.
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Lordknukle
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3/7/2012 6:52:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/7/2012 6:50:55 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
I am for the USA intervening to protect USA interests. That includes getting rid of terrorist groups and trying to keep a degree of international stability.

Having said that, I don't know enough about this specific situation to take a position. I do know that the LRA has done some extremely violent thing. I also know that they are fighting radical muslims.

I would hardly call them a danger to international stability. They have been active for 8 years and have not really caused any international uproar (except for now). Public media hype does not equate to reality.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
PartamRuhem
Posts: 1,559
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3/7/2012 6:56:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/7/2012 6:52:06 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 3/7/2012 6:50:55 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
I am for the USA intervening to protect USA interests. That includes getting rid of terrorist groups and trying to keep a degree of international stability.

Having said that, I don't know enough about this specific situation to take a position. I do know that the LRA has done some extremely violent thing. I also know that they are fighting radical muslims.

I would hardly call them a danger to international stability. They have been active for 8 years and have not really caused any international uproar (except for now). Public media hype does not equate to reality.

I heard that Kony has been around for 25 years or so.

It doesn't seem like he is going to effect American interests too much, but I am also an interventionist like JimTim.
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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3/7/2012 10:34:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/7/2012 6:45:21 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Other than the petty altruistic argument which hold no water, why do all of those Pro getting rid of Kony supporters want the US to interfere in the matters of a country half way around the world that is on the verge of Civil War when we have $15 trillion of debt back here (that was a long sentence).

I want to hear a valid argument (which I likely will not hear) on why the US should go into Uganda.

Go.

I will attempt to play the devil's advocate here, although I disagree with intervention in Uganda.

Intervention in Uganda, specifically the mission to bring Joseph Kony to justice, has broad support from the American people. In fact, many Americans demand that we send troops to bring Joseph Kony to justice. Whether they are right or wrong, it is the duty of the United States government to carry out the will of the people.

Furthermore the mission has international support and bringing Joseph Kony to justice could possibly bring prestige to the United States and her people. It would not be a difficult mission to simply capture one man, we've done it before and we're experienced in properly capturing highly valued individuals from our years of fighting the War on Terrorism.

To summarize; the mission is cheap, we do not need to commit a lot of man power if we use special forces operators, and our government will gain both international prestige and national acclaim if they capture Joseph Kony.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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3/7/2012 10:48:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/7/2012 10:34:49 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 3/7/2012 6:45:21 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Other than the petty altruistic argument which hold no water, why do all of those Pro getting rid of Kony supporters want the US to interfere in the matters of a country half way around the world that is on the verge of Civil War when we have $15 trillion of debt back here (that was a long sentence).

I want to hear a valid argument (which I likely will not hear) on why the US should go into Uganda.

Go.

I will attempt to play the devil's advocate here, although I disagree with intervention in Uganda.

Intervention in Uganda, specifically the mission to bring Joseph Kony to justice, has broad support from the American people. In fact, many Americans demand that we send troops to bring Joseph Kony to justice. Whether they are right or wrong, it is the duty of the United States government to carry out the will of the people.

Furthermore the mission has international support and bringing Joseph Kony to justice could possibly bring prestige to the United States and her people. It would not be a difficult mission to simply capture one man, we've done it before and we're experienced in properly capturing highly valued individuals from our years of fighting the War on Terrorism.

To summarize; the mission is cheap, we do not need to commit a lot of man power if we use special forces operators, and our government will gain both international prestige and national acclaim if they capture Joseph Kony.

What will killing Joseph Kony even solve? The LRA will just replace Joseph Kony with some other dude.
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MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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3/7/2012 10:59:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It doesn't matter if it'll actually solve the problem or not. If we capture him it'll make the US look good, because we're enforcing international law by bringing a war criminal to justice. Also, our people will see it as democracy in action, because this is a grassroots military intervention. It doesn't matter if Uganda continues to be ripe with rape and strife, because people will stop caring after we capture Joseph Kony.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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3/7/2012 11:00:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/7/2012 10:48:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 3/7/2012 10:34:49 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 3/7/2012 6:45:21 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Other than the petty altruistic argument which hold no water, why do all of those Pro getting rid of Kony supporters want the US to interfere in the matters of a country half way around the world that is on the verge of Civil War when we have $15 trillion of debt back here (that was a long sentence).

I want to hear a valid argument (which I likely will not hear) on why the US should go into Uganda.

Go.

I will attempt to play the devil's advocate here, although I disagree with intervention in Uganda.

Intervention in Uganda, specifically the mission to bring Joseph Kony to justice, has broad support from the American people. In fact, many Americans demand that we send troops to bring Joseph Kony to justice. Whether they are right or wrong, it is the duty of the United States government to carry out the will of the people.

Furthermore the mission has international support and bringing Joseph Kony to justice could possibly bring prestige to the United States and her people. It would not be a difficult mission to simply capture one man, we've done it before and we're experienced in properly capturing highly valued individuals from our years of fighting the War on Terrorism.

To summarize; the mission is cheap, we do not need to commit a lot of man power if we use special forces operators, and our government will gain both international prestige and national acclaim if they capture Joseph Kony.

What will killing Joseph Kony even solve? The LRA will just replace Joseph Kony with some other dude.

Exactly. People just want their feel good moment. "I shared this video so I'm a good person."

Truth is most of these people didn't know who Kony was a day ago and I bet most of them couldn't even point to Uganda on a map. They just want to feel accepted in the world of social media by parroting an idea they know nothing about.
Deathbeforedishonour
Posts: 1,058
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3/7/2012 11:19:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Because if we don't do some thing, then who will? I am for humanitarian aid of any kind that includes fighting a covert JUST war to bring freedom to those who are oppressed. With great power comes great responsibility!
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quarterexchange
Posts: 1,549
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3/7/2012 11:26:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/7/2012 10:48:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:
What will killing Joseph Kony even solve? The LRA will just replace Joseph Kony with some other dude.

Bingo. As if Joseph Kony appointed Mary Poppins second in command in the event he gets killed or captured.

Additionally it's not like sending small groups of advisors/peacekeepers to achieve these sort of tasks (fighting war lords, protecting villages, training the regular military to be competent, etc), has ever actually worked. They've all either resulted in bloodbaths with hundreds of peacekeeper/advisors being butchered or with the involvement and conflict escalating rapidly.
I don't discriminate....I hate everybody.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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3/7/2012 11:49:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/7/2012 11:37:54 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
So what did killing bin-laden accomplish?

It didn't accomplish much at all.
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PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/8/2012 1:59:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The U.S. should stop Kony for the very same reason we needed to stop Hitler: inaction against genocide supports genocide. That anyone would argue we shouldn't care, we shouldn't act to stop it is reckless, obscene and inexcusable.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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3/8/2012 8:07:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/7/2012 10:34:49 PM, MrBrooks wrote:
At 3/7/2012 6:45:21 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Other than the petty altruistic argument which hold no water, why do all of those Pro getting rid of Kony supporters want the US to interfere in the matters of a country half way around the world that is on the verge of Civil War when we have $15 trillion of debt back here (that was a long sentence).

I want to hear a valid argument (which I likely will not hear) on why the US should go into Uganda.

Go.

I will attempt to play the devil's advocate here, although I disagree with intervention in Uganda.

Intervention in Uganda, specifically the mission to bring Joseph Kony to justice, has broad support from the American people. In fact, many Americans demand that we send troops to bring Joseph Kony to justice. Whether they are right or wrong, it is the duty of the United States government to carry out the will of the people.

Interesting. I think that you are making the false assumption that just because people support a cause, it is justified that government intervention ought to take place. People and crowds are in general, extremely dumb. OWS had many supporters and had recognition all over the world. Did they get anything accomplished? Of course not. Their points were ludicrous. Simply because the public want something does not mean the government should follow blindly in their path. They must analyze and pick the best course of action, not necessarily in step with the people.

Also, if the public really want something, why bring the government into this? If everybody in the US (exaggeration) wants Kony brought to justice, then they ought to take it upon themselves. But no.... people are naturally timid and want to shift responsibility.
Furthermore the mission has international support and bringing Joseph Kony to justice could possibly bring prestige to the United States and her people. It would not be a difficult mission to simply capture one man, we've done it before and we're experienced in properly capturing highly valued individuals from our years of fighting the War on Terrorism.

I'm not going to argue that it will not bring prestige to the US, because it will (if accomplished). However, I think that the ramifications of the mission are much greater than you believe. First, Kony has at least 60 000 soldiers, most of which are highly devoted children. Keep in mind that if the US storms in with tanks and massacres these children, infamy will be more prevalent than international prestige. Second, with such a large army, this mission will be relatively hard as to take down the whole LRA (because they will simply replace Kony if not), it will takes 10's of thousands of troops, many more than the US is currently sending. Third, Kony's men are fine with battle. If international countries storm in there, it will cause a Ugandan Civil War and many lives on both sides will be lost in the process.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
PARADIGM_L0ST
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3/8/2012 8:41:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 1:59:53 AM, PervRat wrote:
The U.S. should stop Kony for the very same reason we needed to stop Hitler: inaction against genocide supports genocide. That anyone would argue we shouldn't care, we shouldn't act to stop it is reckless, obscene and inexcusable.:

So, already knowing a thread about Kony was made, you decided to make your own thread anyway?

Stop spamming the forum when there is already a thread open about the topic of interest
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
mauricio2
Posts: 129
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3/8/2012 8:51:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/7/2012 6:45:21 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Other than the petty altruistic argument which hold no water, why do all of those Pro getting rid of Kony supporters want the US to interfere in the matters of a country half way around the world that is on the verge of Civil War when we have $15 trillion of debt back here (that was a long sentence).

I want to hear a valid argument (which I likely will not hear) on why the US should go into Uganda.

Go.

AGREED 100% This whole "Kony 2012" thing that people are supporting is just one of millions of problems this earth has. just a other war people want stopped. they kept bitching about on and on and October of last year Obama sent some troops down there to Africa to help out with this whole Kony nonsense. and because of this it's possible Kony and his rebels can be stopped from doing the things they have done like teaching children to kill others and what not. okay now lets say Kony is stopped this year. what's next? is our youth that suddenly cares about one war going to care for the many others too? the ones that involve people in the middle east teaching Children to kill Americans and Our allies up in Great brittian. will this youth that suddenly cares for one war care about all the others too? or is this just some hippie trend.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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3/8/2012 9:04:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 1:59:53 AM, PervRat wrote:
The U.S. should stop Kony for the very same reason we needed to stop Hitler: inaction against genocide supports genocide. That anyone would argue we shouldn't care, we shouldn't act to stop it is reckless, obscene and inexcusable.

No, it supports not wasting resources, were they could be used for FAR better purposes.

How come nobody did this during Rwanda? How come nobody bothers to mention North Korea?
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PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/8/2012 11:41:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 8:41:06 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 3/8/2012 1:59:53 AM, PervRat wrote:
The U.S. should stop Kony for the very same reason we needed to stop Hitler: inaction against genocide supports genocide. That anyone would argue we shouldn't care, we shouldn't act to stop it is reckless, obscene and inexcusable.:

So, already knowing a thread about Kony was made, you decided to make your own thread anyway?

Stop spamming the forum when there is already a thread open about the topic of interest

This thread hasn't started to discuss Kony nor who he is. Stop attempting to censor messages just because you can't tolerate something that might change your world view.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/8/2012 11:52:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 9:04:47 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 3/8/2012 1:59:53 AM, PervRat wrote:
The U.S. should stop Kony for the very same reason we needed to stop Hitler: inaction against genocide supports genocide. That anyone would argue we shouldn't care, we shouldn't act to stop it is reckless, obscene and inexcusable.

No, it supports not wasting resources, were they could be used for FAR better purposes.

How come nobody did this during Rwanda? How come nobody bothers to mention North Korea?

I cannot begin to fathom how saving lives is wasting resources. If government and resources aren't primarily to improve humanity and save lives, the resources have no value and no worth.

North Korea is a rogue state we drive to be even more rogue. Any conflict with them will result in massive civilian casualties, both on the North Korea side and South Korea, and they could probably reign a massacre on Japan as well.

We violently opposed North Korea, fought a bloody war, established a truce which has held for decades.

Whereas with Kony, he has massacred, agreed to peace, used the time of peace to re-arm and launched surprise attacks, again and again, abducting children to indoctrinate into his guerrilla army and largely targetted civilians.

Inaction means allowing his reign of terror to continue, again and again. Its a bit like walking past a dying man on the street, seeing him while on the phone to your stock broker and refusing to bother to even interrupt your call to dial 911 because it isn't your problem. This callous recklessness is in opposition to the very purpose of government. Tyrants like Kony get by thanks to carelessness on the part of those with the ability to do something.
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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3/8/2012 12:11:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Its funny how you admit that interventionism in North Korea will lead to millions of deaths, but you seem to think that interventionism in Uganda won't lead to a similar result. What do you think would happen if we put ground forces in multiple African countries to hunt down this criminal? Do you think the LRA would just meet us for a fair fight in some open ground? No, they'd begin an insurgency across multiple African countries.

Furthermore, the people of these countries would resent the presence of our military there, and they might even fight us. It won't matter what our mission is, they won't care; either out of ignorance, or pure resentment of our presence. This is the same classic tale that happens again and again and again.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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3/8/2012 12:12:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 11:52:57 AM, PervRat wrote:

I cannot begin to fathom how saving lives is wasting resources. If government and resources aren't primarily to improve humanity and save lives, the resources have no value and no worth.

Why should the US government take money from taxpayers and spend it on causes that do not benefit the US citizens? The US government has a moral obligation to benefit its citizens first and foremost.

North Korea is a rogue state we drive to be even more rogue. Any conflict with them will result in massive civilian casualties, both on the North Korea side and South Korea, and they could probably reign a massacre on Japan as well.

We violently opposed North Korea, fought a bloody war, established a truce which has held for decades.

So then what about the Rwanda genocide or Darfur? You just ignore them.

Whereas with Kony, he has massacred, agreed to peace, used the time of peace to re-arm and launched surprise attacks, again and again, abducting children to indoctrinate into his guerrilla army and largely targetted civilians.

See that the only information you actually researched on the topic was based on the video. North Korean dictator, and the massacres in darfur and Rwanda are much worse then Kony.

Inaction means allowing his reign of terror to continue, again and again. Its a bit like walking past a dying man on the street, seeing him while on the phone to your stock broker and refusing to bother to even interrupt your call to dial 911 because it isn't your problem.

You can probably save many lives If you donated all you're money to Africa and just paid for the bare necessities. Yet you do not.

This callous recklessness is in opposition to the very purpose of government. Tyrants like Kony get by thanks to carelessness on the part of those with the ability to do something.

No it isn't. While we can get into the many arguments about the purpose of government, it is hardly to topple criminals in foreign lands. US isn't the world police.
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blackhawk1331
Posts: 4,932
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3/8/2012 9:50:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/7/2012 6:45:21 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Other than the petty altruistic argument which hold no water, why do all of those Pro getting rid of Kony supporters want the US to interfere in the matters of a country half way around the world that is on the verge of Civil War when we have $15 trillion of debt back here (that was a long sentence).

I want to hear a valid argument (which I likely will not hear) on why the US should go into Uganda.

Go.

Surprisingly, I agree with you 100%.
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

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charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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3/10/2012 1:21:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/7/2012 6:45:21 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Other than the petty altruistic argument which hold no water, why do all of those Pro getting rid of Kony supporters want the US to interfere in the matters of a country half way around the world that is on the verge of Civil War when we have $15 trillion of debt back here (that was a long sentence).

I want to hear a valid argument (which I likely will not hear) on why the US should go into Uganda.

Go.

It's indeed exceedingly interesting that the always irreproachably benevolent U.S. government is just now taking an active interest in taking out this Kony character and the LRA (Lord's Resistance Army!), which have been waging a bogus holy guerrilla war for more than two decades now. Could it perhaps be that our plutocratic-political establishment has recently recognized some utterly amoral realpolitik & realeconomik interests in the region and the LRA is a pesky destabilizing force that it has deemed must be removed? It's of course splendidly convenient that Kony & Co. are truly despicable and deserve to be "removed with extreme prejudice" from the African political scene, and so it will be quite easy to dress up any American involvement in eliminating them as an altruistic good deed designed to establish the "rule of law", and all that lofty rhetorical jazz, when in truth the U.S. is once again operating out of thinly-veiled ulterior mercenary motives. And no, suspecting such a thing is not being cynical or anti-American, it's merely thinking critically.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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3/10/2012 1:27:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Stop spamming the forum when there is already a thread open about the topic of interest

This thread hasn't started to discuss Kony nor who he is. Stop attempting to censor messages just because you can't tolerate something that might change your world view.:

Sorry, not sure how I clicked on your post, I intended it for the OP. FYI, it has nothing to do with censoring threads, it has everything to do with the fact that there are like 8 separate Kony related threads. It's unnecessary spam.
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PARADIGM_L0ST
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3/10/2012 1:32:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It's indeed exceedingly interesting that the always irreproachably benevolent U.S. government is just now taking an active interest in taking out this Kony character and the LRA (Lord's Resistance Army!), which have been waging a bogus holy guerrilla war for more than two decades now. Could it perhaps be that our plutocratic-political establishment has recently recognized some utterly amoral realpolitik & realeconomik interests in the region and the LRA is a pesky destabilizing force that it has deemed must be removed? It's of course splendidly convenient that Kony & Co. are truly despicable and deserve to be "removed with extreme prejudice" from the African political scene, and so it will be quite easy to dress up any American involvement in eliminating them as an altruistic good deed designed to establish the "rule of law", and all that lofty rhetorical jazz, when in truth the U.S. is once again operating out of thinly-veiled ulterior mercenary motives. And no, suspecting such a thing is not being cynical or anti-American, it's merely thinking critically.

LOL, right... This topic serves as nothing more than a springboard for you to launch invective towards all things U.S., and more broadly, all things capitalistic.

The topic at hand is whether the U.S. should or should not be involved, and why. Everything else is extraneous and immaterial to the discussion.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
OberHerr
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3/10/2012 6:24:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/10/2012 6:20:13 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Truth-filled lulz



Dang.....didn't know anyone could talk that much without taking air breaks.
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