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An Interesting Side Effect of High Taxes

jimtimmy
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3/8/2012 12:33:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
In france, the socialists have recently proposed a 75% top tax rate. It was supported at first, but it has now been met with resistance. One reason is that, as many owners of "football" (soccer) teams would tell you, high skilled players don't want to go to countries with high tax rates on the rich.

This is not purely anecdotal. There is a major study from, among others, left wing tax economist Emmanuel Saez finding significant effects of taxes on the decisions of footbball players.

The link to this study is here:

http://www.nber.org...

Interesting. Of course, there are many more compelling reasons to oppose high tax rates on the rich. But, this just adds to the list. Taxes do affect decisions.
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Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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3/8/2012 12:47:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
jimtimmy, yes, it influences decisions. If we were unified as a nation in the EU we'd all set similar tax rates to avoid this kind of competition and promote general welfare.

Oh wait...
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

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jimtimmy
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3/8/2012 12:56:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 12:47:15 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
jimtimmy, yes, it influences decisions. If we were unified as a nation in the EU we'd all set similar tax rates to avoid this kind of competition and promote general welfare.

Oh wait...

I don't see the point you are trying to make.
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Stephen_Hawkins
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3/8/2012 1:00:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 12:56:40 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/8/2012 12:47:15 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
jimtimmy, yes, it influences decisions. If we were unified as a nation in the EU we'd all set similar tax rates to avoid this kind of competition and promote general welfare.

Oh wait...


I don't see the point you are trying to make.

The problem isn't lower taxes, it's the fact that the taxes are lower than elsewhere. However, as the countries where football is popular have similarly arguably high tax rates, there is no real problem (and all of those countries are in the EU anyway, so even if there were a few people who did not like the tax rate, they could live in Switzerland and go to Spain to play).
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
jimtimmy
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3/8/2012 1:03:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 1:00:18 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 3/8/2012 12:56:40 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/8/2012 12:47:15 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
jimtimmy, yes, it influences decisions. If we were unified as a nation in the EU we'd all set similar tax rates to avoid this kind of competition and promote general welfare.

Oh wait...


I don't see the point you are trying to make.

The problem isn't lower taxes, it's the fact that the taxes are lower than elsewhere. However, as the countries where football is popular have similarly arguably high tax rates, there is no real problem (and all of those countries are in the EU anyway, so even if there were a few people who did not like the tax rate, they could live in Switzerland and go to Spain to play).

The broader point I am trying to make is that higher taxes influence decisions. Not just for Football players but also for investors, businessmen, and high skilled workers.

If there is a large difference between tax rates between nations, the lower tax nation will see many more skilled workers and business than the higher tax nation. So, higher taxes are a problem.
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JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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3/8/2012 1:06:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 12:33:33 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
In france, the socialists have recently proposed a 75% top tax rate. It was supported at first, but it has now been met with resistance. One reason is that, as many owners of "football" (soccer) teams would tell you, high skilled players don't want to go to countries with high tax rates on the rich.

This is not purely anecdotal. There is a major study from, among others, left wing tax economist Emmanuel Saez finding significant effects of taxes on the decisions of footbball players.

The link to this study is here:

http://www.nber.org...


Interesting. Of course, there are many more compelling reasons to oppose high tax rates on the rich. But, this just adds to the list. Taxes do affect decisions.

You mean, companies might go where they have more tax-friendly environments? So, if we were more friendly to businesses, they might come here?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
jimtimmy
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3/8/2012 1:07:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 1:06:01 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 3/8/2012 12:33:33 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
In france, the socialists have recently proposed a 75% top tax rate. It was supported at first, but it has now been met with resistance. One reason is that, as many owners of "football" (soccer) teams would tell you, high skilled players don't want to go to countries with high tax rates on the rich.

This is not purely anecdotal. There is a major study from, among others, left wing tax economist Emmanuel Saez finding significant effects of taxes on the decisions of footbball players.

The link to this study is here:

http://www.nber.org...


Interesting. Of course, there are many more compelling reasons to oppose high tax rates on the rich. But, this just adds to the list. Taxes do affect decisions.

You mean, companies might go where they have more tax-friendly environments? So, if we were more friendly to businesses, they might come here?

Exactly. This specific study was just about high skilled athletes. But, the same would certainly apply to businesses and high skilled workers. And, regulations matter too.
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Stephen_Hawkins
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3/8/2012 3:38:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 1:03:48 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/8/2012 1:00:18 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 3/8/2012 12:56:40 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/8/2012 12:47:15 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
jimtimmy, yes, it influences decisions. If we were unified as a nation in the EU we'd all set similar tax rates to avoid this kind of competition and promote general welfare.

Oh wait...


I don't see the point you are trying to make.

The problem isn't lower taxes, it's the fact that the taxes are lower than elsewhere. However, as the countries where football is popular have similarly arguably high tax rates, there is no real problem (and all of those countries are in the EU anyway, so even if there were a few people who did not like the tax rate, they could live in Switzerland and go to Spain to play).


The broader point I am trying to make is that higher taxes influence decisions. Not just for Football players but also for investors, businessmen, and high skilled workers.

If there is a large difference between tax rates between nations, the lower tax nation will see many more skilled workers and business than the higher tax nation. So, higher taxes are a problem.

The tax rate is unimportant though if there is a unified decision between countries on tax rates, such as there being in the EU. It only matters if it is high in proportion to other countries. The EU nations, which happens to be the best European nations and the "home of football", have an agreed upon tax rate, which means competition is on the quality of the service they provide, not on the cost.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
imabench
Posts: 21,220
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3/8/2012 3:41:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
what about countries with a 0 percent tax rate? i agree that higher taxes do discourage people, and do so most of the time, but hawkings has a point in that there is another end of the spectrum here
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Wnope
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3/8/2012 4:27:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 12:33:33 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
In france, the socialists have recently proposed a 75% top tax rate. It was supported at first, but it has now been met with resistance. One reason is that, as many owners of "football" (soccer) teams would tell you, high skilled players don't want to go to countries with high tax rates on the rich.

This is not purely anecdotal. There is a major study from, among others, left wing tax economist Emmanuel Saez finding significant effects of taxes on the decisions of footbball players.

The link to this study is here:

http://www.nber.org...


Interesting. Of course, there are many more compelling reasons to oppose high tax rates on the rich. But, this just adds to the list. Taxes do affect decisions.

Soooo... if we raise taxes we don't have to deal with a bunch of soccer players coming over here?

Cause I see that as a plus.
jimtimmy
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3/8/2012 6:23:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 3:38:41 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 3/8/2012 1:03:48 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/8/2012 1:00:18 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 3/8/2012 12:56:40 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 3/8/2012 12:47:15 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
jimtimmy, yes, it influences decisions. If we were unified as a nation in the EU we'd all set similar tax rates to avoid this kind of competition and promote general welfare.

Oh wait...


I don't see the point you are trying to make.

The problem isn't lower taxes, it's the fact that the taxes are lower than elsewhere. However, as the countries where football is popular have similarly arguably high tax rates, there is no real problem (and all of those countries are in the EU anyway, so even if there were a few people who did not like the tax rate, they could live in Switzerland and go to Spain to play).


The broader point I am trying to make is that higher taxes influence decisions. Not just for Football players but also for investors, businessmen, and high skilled workers.

If there is a large difference between tax rates between nations, the lower tax nation will see many more skilled workers and business than the higher tax nation. So, higher taxes are a problem.

The tax rate is unimportant though if there is a unified decision between countries on tax rates, such as there being in the EU. It only matters if it is high in proportion to other countries. The EU nations, which happens to be the best European nations and the "home of football", have an agreed upon tax rate, which means competition is on the quality of the service they provide, not on the cost.

Okay, if you can get all the nations to agree to have similiar tax levels, kudos to you. But, that is much easier said thand one.

I interpret this as representing a larger phenomenon of businesses and high skilled workers tending towards lower tax nations. If we could get all nations to agree to have high taxes, then this wouldn't be much of a phenom. But, I, and most leaders, would be against international agreements to keep taxes high.

I just don't think that is practical. Nations aren't going to raise taxes so other nations will keep high skilled labor. Until something like that happens, we should probably keep our taxes modest.
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imabench
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3/8/2012 7:43:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 4:27:14 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 3/8/2012 12:33:33 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
In france, the socialists have recently proposed a 75% top tax rate. It was supported at first, but it has now been met with resistance. One reason is that, as many owners of "football" (soccer) teams would tell you, high skilled players don't want to go to countries with high tax rates on the rich.

This is not purely anecdotal. There is a major study from, among others, left wing tax economist Emmanuel Saez finding significant effects of taxes on the decisions of footbball players.

The link to this study is here:

http://www.nber.org...


Interesting. Of course, there are many more compelling reasons to oppose high tax rates on the rich. But, this just adds to the list. Taxes do affect decisions.

Soooo... if we raise taxes we don't have to deal with a bunch of soccer players coming over here?

Cause I see that as a plus.

^^^^^^^^^^^ +1
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
jimtimmy
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3/8/2012 8:08:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 7:43:48 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/8/2012 4:27:14 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 3/8/2012 12:33:33 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
In france, the socialists have recently proposed a 75% top tax rate. It was supported at first, but it has now been met with resistance. One reason is that, as many owners of "football" (soccer) teams would tell you, high skilled players don't want to go to countries with high tax rates on the rich.

This is not purely anecdotal. There is a major study from, among others, left wing tax economist Emmanuel Saez finding significant effects of taxes on the decisions of footbball players.

The link to this study is here:

http://www.nber.org...


Interesting. Of course, there are many more compelling reasons to oppose high tax rates on the rich. But, this just adds to the list. Taxes do affect decisions.

Soooo... if we raise taxes we don't have to deal with a bunch of soccer players coming over here?

Cause I see that as a plus.

^^^^^^^^^^^ +1

Missing the point.

High tax rates cause flight for high skilled workers and businesses. That means less human capital and less jobs.
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imabench
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3/8/2012 8:15:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/8/2012 8:11:09 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Soccer players should be levied a 99.9% sin tax anyway to offset the violence-footprint.

+1
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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3/8/2012 9:01:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm generally for tax cuts as long as they are tied to decreases in spending. Yes, I'm quite aware which party tends to decouple the two. However, I differ substantially from Republicans as to what kind of cuts should be made especially as it relates to non-entitlement issues.