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Are we really running out of resources?

Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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3/20/2012 7:08:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
A very interesting viewpoint from Prof. Steve Horwitz about resources.

Thoughts?
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Grape
Posts: 989
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3/20/2012 7:19:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yes. Running out of resources is a problem. If reserves are depleted at a faster rate than they are renewed, there will eventually be none left. If the market is allowed to operate properly, then it will switch over to alternate resources as current ones become depleted. Unfortunately, rent seeking by established producers of the old resources can potentially get in the way of that.
imabench
Posts: 21,204
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3/20/2012 7:20:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/20/2012 7:19:12 PM, Grape wrote:
Yes. Running out of resources is a problem. If reserves are depleted at a faster rate than they are renewed, there will eventually be none left. If the market is allowed to operate properly, then it will switch over to alternate resources as current ones become depleted. Unfortunately, rent seeking by established producers of the old resources can potentially get in the way of that.
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Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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3/20/2012 7:24:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/20/2012 7:19:12 PM, Grape wrote:
Yes. Running out of resources is a problem. If reserves are depleted at a faster rate than they are renewed, there will eventually be none left. If the market is allowed to operate properly, then it will switch over to alternate resources as current ones become depleted. Unfortunately, rent seeking by established producers of the old resources can potentially get in the way of that.

The whole point of the video was to prove that no matter how fast resources are depleted, the free market will always accommodate for the increased demand and higher prices by A)Finding more reserves or B)Switching to more renewable energy. In reality, there are still a plethora of oil reserves just waiting to be excavated so there should be no objection to point A.

As long as the free market operates, scarcity of resources in first world countries is not a problem.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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3/21/2012 8:10:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Bumpity bump.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
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3/21/2012 8:33:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/21/2012 8:16:22 AM, Ren wrote:
It looks like we might need to transition to a system that doesn't rely on ever-increasing consumption.

Why? The ever increasing consumption problem eventually gets solved if the free market is let operate.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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3/21/2012 8:35:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/21/2012 8:33:23 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 3/21/2012 8:16:22 AM, Ren wrote:
It looks like we might need to transition to a system that doesn't rely on ever-increasing consumption.

Why? The ever increasing consumption problem eventually gets solved if the free market is let operate.

"Eventually" is obviously a contention given the operative phrase "running out;" in any case, it is non-sequitur to aver that a system based on consumption will somehow alleviate the problems its premise inherently causes by allowing it to operate unmitigated by regulation.
Lordknukle
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3/21/2012 10:06:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/21/2012 8:35:10 AM, Ren wrote:
At 3/21/2012 8:33:23 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 3/21/2012 8:16:22 AM, Ren wrote:
It looks like we might need to transition to a system that doesn't rely on ever-increasing consumption.

Why? The ever increasing consumption problem eventually gets solved if the free market is let operate.

"Eventually" is obviously a contention given the operative phrase "running out;" in any case, it is non-sequitur to aver that a system based on consumption will somehow alleviate the problems its premise inherently causes by allowing it to operate unmitigated by regulation.

You make it sound as if your phrases actually have any intellectual meaning.

As resource scarcity becomes apparent, new methods of getting resources/renewable energy will be developed as long as the free market is let operate. As a result, there will be no problem.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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3/21/2012 10:14:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/21/2012 10:06:11 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 3/21/2012 8:35:10 AM, Ren wrote:
At 3/21/2012 8:33:23 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 3/21/2012 8:16:22 AM, Ren wrote:
It looks like we might need to transition to a system that doesn't rely on ever-increasing consumption.

Why? The ever increasing consumption problem eventually gets solved if the free market is let operate.

"Eventually" is obviously a contention given the operative phrase "running out;" in any case, it is non-sequitur to aver that a system based on consumption will somehow alleviate the problems its premise inherently causes by allowing it to operate unmitigated by regulation.

You make it sound as if your phrases actually have any intellectual meaning.

As resource scarcity becomes apparent, new methods of getting resources/renewable energy will be developed as long as the free market is let operate. As a result, there will be no problem.

That's a blind assertion -- an assumption. Renewable energy is antithetical to a resource consumption-based economy.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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3/21/2012 10:20:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/21/2012 10:14:24 AM, Ren wrote:
At 3/21/2012 10:06:11 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 3/21/2012 8:35:10 AM, Ren wrote:
At 3/21/2012 8:33:23 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 3/21/2012 8:16:22 AM, Ren wrote:
It looks like we might need to transition to a system that doesn't rely on ever-increasing consumption.

Why? The ever increasing consumption problem eventually gets solved if the free market is let operate.

"Eventually" is obviously a contention given the operative phrase "running out;" in any case, it is non-sequitur to aver that a system based on consumption will somehow alleviate the problems its premise inherently causes by allowing it to operate unmitigated by regulation.

You make it sound as if your phrases actually have any intellectual meaning.

As resource scarcity becomes apparent, new methods of getting resources/renewable energy will be developed as long as the free market is let operate. As a result, there will be no problem.

That's a blind assertion -- an assumption. Renewable energy is antithetical to a resource consumption-based economy.

Resource consumption does not necessarily imply that the resources must be finite.

How is renewable energy anti-ethical to a resource consumption based economy? If resources can be produced via more effective means, then it is better for the aforementioned economy.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Grape
Posts: 989
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3/21/2012 10:34:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/20/2012 7:24:16 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 3/20/2012 7:19:12 PM, Grape wrote:
Yes. Running out of resources is a problem. If reserves are depleted at a faster rate than they are renewed, there will eventually be none left. If the market is allowed to operate properly, then it will switch over to alternate resources as current ones become depleted. Unfortunately, rent seeking by established producers of the old resources can potentially get in the way of that.

The whole point of the video was to prove that no matter how fast resources are depleted, the free market will always accommodate for the increased demand and higher prices by A)Finding more reserves or B)Switching to more renewable energy. In reality, there are still a plethora of oil reserves just waiting to be excavated so there should be no objection to point A.

As long as the free market operates, scarcity of resources in first world countries is not a problem.

There is a finite amount of oil, and at some point in the not so distant future it will run out. Oil prices will rise as supply falls, creating an incentive to find another resource to underbid oil. On a true free market, this would be no problem. In fact, in a true free market we wouldn't be using oil in the first place because pollution would be a criminal offense.

But we don't have a totally free market, do we? Oil companies will drag the transition process out as long as possible, and people looking into new resources will try to restrict others from doing so. They will try to eliminate competition.

And the free market isn't a magic wand that solves everything. If I'm stranded in the middle the desert with no water, I am going to have to deal with some very serious scarcity. The fact that the economy of me is totally free isn't helping much.
Grape
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3/21/2012 10:41:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/21/2012 10:14:24 AM, Ren wrote:

Renewable energy is antithetical to a resource consumption-based economy.

What?

Whenever you do something, it consumes some sort of resources. You're consuming sugars in your body and oxygen in the air just by sitting around and breathing. I don't see how a human economy can fail to be resource consumption based.

How renewable energy would be antithetical to this, I can't imagine. By renewable energy, what you really mean in most cases is using energy more efficiently and with fewer harmful side effects, because all of our energy comes (or came long ago) from the sun, and that's being depleted whether we want it to or not. Trying to use resources more efficiently is an inherent part of what the market does.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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3/23/2012 5:30:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/20/2012 7:19:12 PM, Grape wrote:
Yes. Running out of resources is a problem. If reserves are depleted at a faster rate than they are renewed, there will eventually be none left. If the market is allowed to operate properly, then it will switch over to alternate resources as current ones become depleted. Unfortunately, rent seeking by established producers of the old resources can potentially get in the way of that.

Tell that to China ;P
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Stephen_Hawkins
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3/23/2012 5:32:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/20/2012 7:19:12 PM, Grape wrote:
Yes. Running out of resources is a problem. If reserves are depleted at a faster rate than they are renewed, there will eventually be none left. If the market is allowed to operate properly, then it will switch over to alternate resources as current ones become depleted. Unfortunately, rent seeking by established producers of the old resources can potentially get in the way of that.

Or tell that to Matt Simmons. Or Andy Hall, a peak oil theorist who made millions within a week, repeatedly, betting on peak oil theory.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

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