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Gays Can't Raise Children???

Bruin2006
Posts: 8
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3/22/2012 12:48:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I just completed a debate in which my opponent claims the only reason gays should NOT be allowed to marry, is because they can't procreate. Nevermind that we allow infertile heterosexual couples and couples who don't want children to get married everyday. Is this really a serious belief among the anti-gay crowd?

Usually when I debate someone on gay issues, my opponents mistakenly believe sexual orientation is chosen, and therefore are anti-gay because they believe gays choose to be that way. But this was the first time I've heard the procreation argument. After all, are gays somehow incapable of raising children? Here's the debate. Please vote!

http://www.debate.org...
We at the FBI do not have a sense of humor that we are aware of.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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3/22/2012 1:01:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
having an unsupported claim and already throughly refuted claims in the debate doesn't make future voting look bright...
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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3/22/2012 1:18:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/22/2012 1:08:09 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I haven't heard of any sexual orientation that has had much luck in raising children.

+1
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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3/22/2012 1:49:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
You know, I really just want to vote you down just because you are complaining about losing a debate and using the forum in hopes that people will vote you up. I haven't finished reading the debate and don't plan do, hence I will not vote, but 16kadams does make a good case against you and the fact that he is leading is justified.
Open borders debate:
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/22/2012 8:57:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/22/2012 12:48:24 AM, Bruin2006 wrote:
I just completed a debate in which my opponent claims the only reason gays should NOT be allowed to marry, is because they can't procreate. Nevermind that we allow infertile heterosexual couples and couples who don't want children to get married everyday. Is this really a serious belief among the anti-gay crowd?

Usually when I debate someone on gay issues, my opponents mistakenly believe sexual orientation is chosen, and therefore are anti-gay because they believe gays choose to be that way. But this was the first time I've heard the procreation argument. After all, are gays somehow incapable of raising children? Here's the debate. Please vote!

http://www.debate.org...

Actually, it is a legitimate reason. The reason is that we give the tax breaks to married people specifically because it is expected (or at least was at one point in time) that they would need the extra money to support children, and we wanted to encourage that the children be brought up in a married family rather than a single family (which is why not all the tax breaks are tied to the kid and some are tied to the marriage). That is the government's reason for having such benefits to marriage. Granted, that they need to either clean it up or get out of it all together, but that is a different debate.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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3/22/2012 10:26:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/22/2012 12:48:24 AM, Bruin2006 wrote:
I just completed a debate in which my opponent claims the only reason gays should NOT be allowed to marry, is because they can't procreate. Nevermind that we allow infertile heterosexual couples and couples who don't want children to get married everyday. Is this really a serious belief among the anti-gay crowd?:

The usual argument I hear is that gay marriage is a slippery slope that opens marriage to abominations like bestiality and incest. The 'ole naturalistic fallacy of not being able to procreate is pretty outdated.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,282
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3/22/2012 10:53:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/22/2012 10:26:02 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
The usual argument I hear is that gay marriage is a slippery slope that opens marriage to abominations like bestiality and incest. The 'ole naturalistic fallacy of not being able to procreate is pretty outdated.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/22/2012 2:14:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/22/2012 1:08:09 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I haven't heard of any sexual orientation that has had much luck in raising children.

Actually, gays tend to do better raising kids because they don't tend to get married because they were reckless and made a "whoops."
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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3/22/2012 2:48:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/22/2012 2:14:26 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 3/22/2012 1:08:09 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I haven't heard of any sexual orientation that has had much luck in raising children.

Actually, gays tend to do better raising kids because they don't tend to get married because they were reckless and made a "whoops."

what if I showed you stats otherwise?
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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3/22/2012 2:57:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/22/2012 2:14:26 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 3/22/2012 1:08:09 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I haven't heard of any sexual orientation that has had much luck in raising children.

Actually, gays tend to do better raising kids because they don't tend to get married because they were reckless and made a "whoops."
What about heterosexual adoptive parents? Grade A+ according to studies.
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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3/22/2012 3:01:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/22/2012 12:48:24 AM, Bruin2006 wrote:
I just completed a debate in which my opponent claims the only reason gays should NOT be allowed to marry, is because they can't procreate. Nevermind that we allow infertile heterosexual couples and couples who don't want children to get married everyday. Is this really a serious belief among the anti-gay crowd?

Usually when I debate someone on gay issues, my opponents mistakenly believe sexual orientation is chosen, and therefore are anti-gay because they believe gays choose to be that way. But this was the first time I've heard the procreation argument. After all, are gays somehow incapable of raising children? Here's the debate. Please vote!

http://www.debate.org...

Well he is right. The main reason for marriages is to have children. I don't think you understand that. Not to mention, a child needs a mother and a father to develop well.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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3/22/2012 6:37:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/22/2012 6:03:19 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Oops, he is gay lol

Gosh. It's all he talks about so far >.>

If I was a discriminated minority of some type, I would be particularly concerned about it as well.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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3/22/2012 6:43:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/22/2012 6:37:34 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:03:19 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Oops, he is gay lol

Gosh. It's all he talks about so far >.>

If I was a discriminated minority of some type, I would be particularly concerned about it as well.

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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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3/22/2012 6:48:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/22/2012 6:37:34 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:03:19 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Oops, he is gay lol

Gosh. It's all he talks about so far >.>

If I was a discriminated minority of some type, I would be particularly concerned about it as well.

Who's discriminating?
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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3/22/2012 7:11:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/22/2012 6:48:46 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:37:34 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:03:19 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Oops, he is gay lol

Gosh. It's all he talks about so far >.>

If I was a discriminated minority of some type, I would be particularly concerned about it as well.

Who's discriminating?

No, banning SSM isn't discrimination even if it is a right. The argument assumes there is a right being deprived. Ok lets assume marriage is a right. Even banning SSM is ok as gay "marriage" does not exist, and its definition doesn't apply to gays.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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3/22/2012 7:15:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm not in favor of changing definitions under pressure.

What if some people wanted to sit on tables? A small vocal group begins sitting on tables demanding they be called chairs... but its a table. You can sit on it all you want but its still just a table that you want to sit on.

That's what SSM sounds like to me...
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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3/23/2012 5:58:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/22/2012 7:11:42 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:48:46 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:37:34 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:03:19 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Oops, he is gay lol

Gosh. It's all he talks about so far >.>

If I was a discriminated minority of some type, I would be particularly concerned about it as well.

Who's discriminating?

No, banning SSM isn't discrimination even if it is a right. The argument assumes there is a right being deprived. Ok lets assume marriage is a right. Even banning SSM is ok as gay "marriage" does not exist, and its definition doesn't apply to gays.

Damn straight! Marriage is marriage! As a resident in South Africa, the law stated, between one white man and one white woman. Marriage is a right for only white straight men & woman. Damn these blacks! /sarcasm
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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3/23/2012 6:00:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/23/2012 5:58:53 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 3/22/2012 7:11:42 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:48:46 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:37:34 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:03:19 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Oops, he is gay lol

Gosh. It's all he talks about so far >.>

If I was a discriminated minority of some type, I would be particularly concerned about it as well.

Who's discriminating?

No, banning SSM isn't discrimination even if it is a right. The argument assumes there is a right being deprived. Ok lets assume marriage is a right. Even banning SSM is ok as gay "marriage" does not exist, and its definition doesn't apply to gays.

Damn straight! Marriage is marriage! As a resident in South Africa, the law stated, between one white man and one white woman. Marriage is a right for only white straight men & woman. Damn these blacks! /sarcasm

there is a difference from blacks and gays
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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3/23/2012 6:02:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/22/2012 3:01:02 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 3/22/2012 12:48:24 AM, Bruin2006 wrote:
I just completed a debate in which my opponent claims the only reason gays should NOT be allowed to marry, is because they can't procreate. Nevermind that we allow infertile heterosexual couples and couples who don't want children to get married everyday. Is this really a serious belief among the anti-gay crowd?

Usually when I debate someone on gay issues, my opponents mistakenly believe sexual orientation is chosen, and therefore are anti-gay because they believe gays choose to be that way. But this was the first time I've heard the procreation argument. After all, are gays somehow incapable of raising children? Here's the debate. Please vote!

http://www.debate.org...

Well he is right. The main reason for marriages is to have children. I don't think you understand that. Not to mention, a child needs a mother and a father to develop well.
Untrue. It's often easier with two parents, but also harder. A child has the ability to sense wrong aura between his parents even if they hide their problems. So even if the child doesn't directly get to know that his parents are in bad relations, he will be able to sense it. That's where the child can say welcome to anxiety and all kind of illnesses later in his life.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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3/23/2012 6:04:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/23/2012 6:00:17 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 3/23/2012 5:58:53 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 3/22/2012 7:11:42 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:48:46 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:37:34 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:03:19 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Oops, he is gay lol

Gosh. It's all he talks about so far >.>

If I was a discriminated minority of some type, I would be particularly concerned about it as well.

Who's discriminating?

No, banning SSM isn't discrimination even if it is a right. The argument assumes there is a right being deprived. Ok lets assume marriage is a right. Even banning SSM is ok as gay "marriage" does not exist, and its definition doesn't apply to gays.

Damn straight! Marriage is marriage! As a resident in South Africa, the law stated, between one white man and one white woman. Marriage is a right for only white straight men & woman. Damn these blacks! /sarcasm

there is a difference from blacks and gays

Yeah, one gained access to their well-deserved rights 50 years ago.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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3/23/2012 9:21:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/23/2012 6:02:26 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 3/22/2012 3:01:02 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 3/22/2012 12:48:24 AM, Bruin2006 wrote:
I just completed a debate in which my opponent claims the only reason gays should NOT be allowed to marry, is because they can't procreate. Nevermind that we allow infertile heterosexual couples and couples who don't want children to get married everyday. Is this really a serious belief among the anti-gay crowd?

Usually when I debate someone on gay issues, my opponents mistakenly believe sexual orientation is chosen, and therefore are anti-gay because they believe gays choose to be that way. But this was the first time I've heard the procreation argument. After all, are gays somehow incapable of raising children? Here's the debate. Please vote!

http://www.debate.org...

Well he is right. The main reason for marriages is to have children. I don't think you understand that. Not to mention, a child needs a mother and a father to develop well.
Untrue. It's often easier with two parents, but also harder. A child has the ability to sense wrong aura between his parents even if they hide their problems. So even if the child doesn't directly get to know that his parents are in bad relations, he will be able to sense it. That's where the child can say welcome to anxiety and all kind of illnesses later in his life.

And parental trouble happens just as often if not more often in homosexual relationships than in heterosexual relationships. The child can sense wrong aura in either type of relationship. My point was that a child needs a mother-figure and a father-figure to be able to be fully mature, and that is something a homosexual relationship by nature can not offer.
thett3
Posts: 14,348
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3/23/2012 9:23:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/23/2012 6:04:44 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 3/23/2012 6:00:17 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 3/23/2012 5:58:53 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 3/22/2012 7:11:42 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:48:46 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:37:34 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:03:19 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Oops, he is gay lol

Gosh. It's all he talks about so far >.>

If I was a discriminated minority of some type, I would be particularly concerned about it as well.

Who's discriminating?

No, banning SSM isn't discrimination even if it is a right. The argument assumes there is a right being deprived. Ok lets assume marriage is a right. Even banning SSM is ok as gay "marriage" does not exist, and its definition doesn't apply to gays.

Damn straight! Marriage is marriage! As a resident in South Africa, the law stated, between one white man and one white woman. Marriage is a right for only white straight men & woman. Damn these blacks! /sarcasm

there is a difference from blacks and gays

Yeah, one gained access to their well-deserved rights 50 years ago.

Same sex marriage is not a right. Miscegenation is not a right. Marriage is not a right. That's why it's so absurd that the State recognizes it as such.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
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3/23/2012 9:30:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/22/2012 12:48:24 AM, Bruin2006 wrote:
I just completed a debate in which my opponent claims the only reason gays should NOT be allowed to marry, is because they can't procreate. Nevermind that we allow infertile heterosexual couples and couples who don't want children to get married everyday. Is this really a serious belief among the anti-gay crowd?

Usually when I debate someone on gay issues, my opponents mistakenly believe sexual orientation is chosen, and therefore are anti-gay because they believe gays choose to be that way. But this was the first time I've heard the procreation argument. After all, are gays somehow incapable of raising children? Here's the debate. Please vote!

http://www.debate.org...

No no no. You have 16k's argument wrong. His argument isn't necessarily about how gays can't RAISE kids, but how they can't PRODUCE kids (i.e. get prego and have birth). There's plenty of holes to this argument (personally, I think it's rather weak), but I won't be that guy wuo posts answers to another person's argument online.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
thett3
Posts: 14,348
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3/23/2012 9:30:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/23/2012 9:23:20 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/23/2012 6:04:44 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 3/23/2012 6:00:17 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 3/23/2012 5:58:53 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 3/22/2012 7:11:42 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:48:46 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:37:34 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:03:19 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Oops, he is gay lol

Gosh. It's all he talks about so far >.>

If I was a discriminated minority of some type, I would be particularly concerned about it as well.

Who's discriminating?

No, banning SSM isn't discrimination even if it is a right. The argument assumes there is a right being deprived. Ok lets assume marriage is a right. Even banning SSM is ok as gay "marriage" does not exist, and its definition doesn't apply to gays.

Damn straight! Marriage is marriage! As a resident in South Africa, the law stated, between one white man and one white woman. Marriage is a right for only white straight men & woman. Damn these blacks! /sarcasm

there is a difference from blacks and gays

Yeah, one gained access to their well-deserved rights 50 years ago.

Same sex marriage is not a right. Miscegenation is not a right. Marriage is not a right. That's why it's so absurd that the State recognizes it as such.

By right I mean legal right.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/23/2012 9:51:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/23/2012 9:23:20 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/23/2012 6:04:44 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 3/23/2012 6:00:17 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 3/23/2012 5:58:53 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 3/22/2012 7:11:42 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:48:46 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:37:34 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:03:19 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Oops, he is gay lol

Gosh. It's all he talks about so far >.>

If I was a discriminated minority of some type, I would be particularly concerned about it as well.

Who's discriminating?

No, banning SSM isn't discrimination even if it is a right. The argument assumes there is a right being deprived. Ok lets assume marriage is a right. Even banning SSM is ok as gay "marriage" does not exist, and its definition doesn't apply to gays.

Damn straight! Marriage is marriage! As a resident in South Africa, the law stated, between one white man and one white woman. Marriage is a right for only white straight men & woman. Damn these blacks! /sarcasm

there is a difference from blacks and gays

Yeah, one gained access to their well-deserved rights 50 years ago.

Same sex marriage is not a right. Miscegenation is not a right. Marriage is not a right. That's why it's so absurd that the State recognizes it as such.

Discrimination is not limited to rights.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
thett3
Posts: 14,348
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3/23/2012 9:56:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/23/2012 9:51:40 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 3/23/2012 9:23:20 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/23/2012 6:04:44 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 3/23/2012 6:00:17 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 3/23/2012 5:58:53 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 3/22/2012 7:11:42 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:48:46 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:37:34 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:03:19 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Oops, he is gay lol

Gosh. It's all he talks about so far >.>

If I was a discriminated minority of some type, I would be particularly concerned about it as well.

Who's discriminating?

No, banning SSM isn't discrimination even if it is a right. The argument assumes there is a right being deprived. Ok lets assume marriage is a right. Even banning SSM is ok as gay "marriage" does not exist, and its definition doesn't apply to gays.

Damn straight! Marriage is marriage! As a resident in South Africa, the law stated, between one white man and one white woman. Marriage is a right for only white straight men & woman. Damn these blacks! /sarcasm

there is a difference from blacks and gays

Yeah, one gained access to their well-deserved rights 50 years ago.

Same sex marriage is not a right. Miscegenation is not a right. Marriage is not a right. That's why it's so absurd that the State recognizes it as such.

Discrimination is not limited to rights.

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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
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3/23/2012 10:00:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/23/2012 9:51:40 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 3/23/2012 9:23:20 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/23/2012 6:04:44 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 3/23/2012 6:00:17 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 3/23/2012 5:58:53 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 3/22/2012 7:11:42 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:48:46 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:37:34 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/22/2012 6:03:19 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Oops, he is gay lol

Gosh. It's all he talks about so far >.>

If I was a discriminated minority of some type, I would be particularly concerned about it as well.

Who's discriminating?

No, banning SSM isn't discrimination even if it is a right. The argument assumes there is a right being deprived. Ok lets assume marriage is a right. Even banning SSM is ok as gay "marriage" does not exist, and its definition doesn't apply to gays.

Damn straight! Marriage is marriage! As a resident in South Africa, the law stated, between one white man and one white woman. Marriage is a right for only white straight men & woman. Damn these blacks! /sarcasm

there is a difference from blacks and gays

Yeah, one gained access to their well-deserved rights 50 years ago.

Same sex marriage is not a right. Miscegenation is not a right. Marriage is not a right. That's why it's so absurd that the State recognizes it as such.

Discrimination is not limited to rights.

treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit.
http://dictionary.reference.com...

If my thesis, contradictions thesis, and William C. Duncan's thesis is correct, they are being deprived on grounds of nature/procreation, which fits into merit.
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