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Supreme Court: Individual Mandate

000ike
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3/27/2012 5:55:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm a little surprised that we're actually having a debate about the Constitutionality of the individual mandate. One of the Justices argued what the media is calling the "Broccoli argument." He said that (I'm paraphrasing) "If the government may compel its citizens to buy something, then what can it not do? Couldn't it now force everyone to buy broccoli to improve national health? This significantly changes the relationship between the government and the people."

There is nothing "new" or "unprecedented" about the government mandating a purchase. If we were so opposed to such compulsive decrees, we would have brought this question up in the wake of income taxes and drafts! If it is suddenly unjustified to force U.S citizens to buy health care, then it follows that the government is stripped of several of its nonchalantly exercised powers. This is nothing new, this enters no previously uncrossed territory.

The provisions of the Affordable Care Act are merely a new curtain over a century-old stage. If the Justices want to question the might and scope of the government through this case, then fine. But at least they should be consistent.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Contra
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3/27/2012 6:01:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If the healthcare mandate is unconstitutional, then just what in the heck is the Patriot Act?
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

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16kadams
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3/27/2012 6:39:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 6:01:43 PM, Contra wrote:
If the healthcare mandate is unconstitutional, then just what in the heck is the Patriot Act?

unconstitutional :(
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thett3
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3/27/2012 6:47:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 5:55:09 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm a little surprised that we're actually having a debate about the Constitutionality of the individual mandate. One of the Justices argued what the media is calling the "Broccoli argument." He said that (I'm paraphrasing) "If the government may compel its citizens to buy something, then what can it not do? Couldn't it now force everyone to buy broccoli to improve national health? This significantly changes the relationship between the government and the people."

There is nothing "new" or "unprecedented" about the government mandating a purchase. If we were so opposed to such compulsive decrees, we would have brought this question up in the wake of income taxes and drafts! If it is suddenly unjustified to force U.S citizens to buy health care, then it follows that the government is stripped of several of its nonchalantly exercised powers. This is nothing new, this enters no previously uncrossed territory.

The provisions of the Affordable Care Act are merely a new curtain over a century-old stage. If the Justices want to question the might and scope of the government through this case, then fine. But at least they should be consistent.

This is no defense. That there is a precedent of unjust coercion is something to be disgusted by, not a defense of the individual mandate.
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
thett3
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3/27/2012 6:47:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 6:01:43 PM, Contra wrote:
If the healthcare mandate is unconstitutional, then just what in the heck is the Patriot Act?

Dangerous. Incredibly, and recklessly dangerous
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
000ike
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3/27/2012 6:50:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 6:47:17 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/27/2012 5:55:09 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm a little surprised that we're actually having a debate about the Constitutionality of the individual mandate. One of the Justices argued what the media is calling the "Broccoli argument." He said that (I'm paraphrasing) "If the government may compel its citizens to buy something, then what can it not do? Couldn't it now force everyone to buy broccoli to improve national health? This significantly changes the relationship between the government and the people."

There is nothing "new" or "unprecedented" about the government mandating a purchase. If we were so opposed to such compulsive decrees, we would have brought this question up in the wake of income taxes and drafts! If it is suddenly unjustified to force U.S citizens to buy health care, then it follows that the government is stripped of several of its nonchalantly exercised powers. This is nothing new, this enters no previously uncrossed territory.

The provisions of the Affordable Care Act are merely a new curtain over a century-old stage. If the Justices want to question the might and scope of the government through this case, then fine. But at least they should be consistent.

This is no defense. That there is a precedent of unjust coercion is something to be disgusted by, not a defense of the individual mandate.

In the last part of the rant I said "If the Justices want to question the might and scope of the government through this case, then fine. But at least they should be consistent."

Did you read that part?...
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
thett3
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3/27/2012 6:53:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 6:50:02 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/27/2012 6:47:17 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/27/2012 5:55:09 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm a little surprised that we're actually having a debate about the Constitutionality of the individual mandate. One of the Justices argued what the media is calling the "Broccoli argument." He said that (I'm paraphrasing) "If the government may compel its citizens to buy something, then what can it not do? Couldn't it now force everyone to buy broccoli to improve national health? This significantly changes the relationship between the government and the people."

There is nothing "new" or "unprecedented" about the government mandating a purchase. If we were so opposed to such compulsive decrees, we would have brought this question up in the wake of income taxes and drafts! If it is suddenly unjustified to force U.S citizens to buy health care, then it follows that the government is stripped of several of its nonchalantly exercised powers. This is nothing new, this enters no previously uncrossed territory.

The provisions of the Affordable Care Act are merely a new curtain over a century-old stage. If the Justices want to question the might and scope of the government through this case, then fine. But at least they should be consistent.

This is no defense. That there is a precedent of unjust coercion is something to be disgusted by, not a defense of the individual mandate.

In the last part of the rant I said "If the Justices want to question the might and scope of the government through this case, then fine. But at least they should be consistent."

Did you read that part?...

Yes, but it's pretty obvious you put that in just to avoid being accused of citing precedent as an argument. Doesn't mean that you aren't defending the mandate.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

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"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Contra
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3/27/2012 6:55:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 6:47:57 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/27/2012 6:01:43 PM, Contra wrote:
If the healthcare mandate is unconstitutional, then just what in the heck is the Patriot Act?

Dangerous. Incredibly, and recklessly dangerous

+100
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
000ike
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3/27/2012 6:55:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 6:53:01 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/27/2012 6:50:02 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/27/2012 6:47:17 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/27/2012 5:55:09 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm a little surprised that we're actually having a debate about the Constitutionality of the individual mandate. One of the Justices argued what the media is calling the "Broccoli argument." He said that (I'm paraphrasing) "If the government may compel its citizens to buy something, then what can it not do? Couldn't it now force everyone to buy broccoli to improve national health? This significantly changes the relationship between the government and the people."

There is nothing "new" or "unprecedented" about the government mandating a purchase. If we were so opposed to such compulsive decrees, we would have brought this question up in the wake of income taxes and drafts! If it is suddenly unjustified to force U.S citizens to buy health care, then it follows that the government is stripped of several of its nonchalantly exercised powers. This is nothing new, this enters no previously uncrossed territory.

The provisions of the Affordable Care Act are merely a new curtain over a century-old stage. If the Justices want to question the might and scope of the government through this case, then fine. But at least they should be consistent.

This is no defense. That there is a precedent of unjust coercion is something to be disgusted by, not a defense of the individual mandate.

In the last part of the rant I said "If the Justices want to question the might and scope of the government through this case, then fine. But at least they should be consistent."

Did you read that part?...

Yes, but it's pretty obvious you put that in just to avoid being accused of citing precedent as an argument. Doesn't mean that you aren't defending the mandate.

How are you going to tell me what I am and am not arguing. I was not defending anything. I was attacking the Justice's rationale as being inconsistent. I was also attacking the argument that the mandate was unprecedented. ...But apparently, in your mind that all boiled down to Liberal + individual mandate = defense of individual mandate. I can't say I'm shocked.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
thett3
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3/27/2012 7:00:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 6:55:55 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/27/2012 6:53:01 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/27/2012 6:50:02 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/27/2012 6:47:17 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/27/2012 5:55:09 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm a little surprised that we're actually having a debate about the Constitutionality of the individual mandate. One of the Justices argued what the media is calling the "Broccoli argument." He said that (I'm paraphrasing) "If the government may compel its citizens to buy something, then what can it not do? Couldn't it now force everyone to buy broccoli to improve national health? This significantly changes the relationship between the government and the people."

There is nothing "new" or "unprecedented" about the government mandating a purchase. If we were so opposed to such compulsive decrees, we would have brought this question up in the wake of income taxes and drafts! If it is suddenly unjustified to force U.S citizens to buy health care, then it follows that the government is stripped of several of its nonchalantly exercised powers. This is nothing new, this enters no previously uncrossed territory.

The provisions of the Affordable Care Act are merely a new curtain over a century-old stage. If the Justices want to question the might and scope of the government through this case, then fine. But at least they should be consistent.

This is no defense. That there is a precedent of unjust coercion is something to be disgusted by, not a defense of the individual mandate.

In the last part of the rant I said "If the Justices want to question the might and scope of the government through this case, then fine. But at least they should be consistent."

Did you read that part?...

Yes, but it's pretty obvious you put that in just to avoid being accused of citing precedent as an argument. Doesn't mean that you aren't defending the mandate.

How are you going to tell me what I am and am not arguing.

Forgot a ? mark. ^.^

I was not defending anything. I was attacking the Justice's rationale as being inconsistent. I was also attacking the argument that the mandate was unprecedented.

And attacking the rationale behind an argument for something is defending that even if not directly.

...But apparently, in your mind that all boiled down to Liberal + individual mandate = defense of individual mandate.

Haha, you can't honestly expect me to believe that you just made this thread to criticize an argument. You WORSHIP Obama and the democrats, and seem to consider virtually all Republicans evil and ignorant. It's fairly obvious why you made the thread.

I can't say I'm shocked.

(: love you too <3
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

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#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
thett3
Posts: 14,348
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3/27/2012 7:01:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 7:00:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/27/2012 6:55:55 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/27/2012 6:53:01 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/27/2012 6:50:02 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/27/2012 6:47:17 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/27/2012 5:55:09 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm a little surprised that we're actually having a debate about the Constitutionality of the individual mandate. One of the Justices argued what the media is calling the "Broccoli argument." He said that (I'm paraphrasing) "If the government may compel its citizens to buy something, then what can it not do? Couldn't it now force everyone to buy broccoli to improve national health? This significantly changes the relationship between the government and the people."

There is nothing "new" or "unprecedented" about the government mandating a purchase. If we were so opposed to such compulsive decrees, we would have brought this question up in the wake of income taxes and drafts! If it is suddenly unjustified to force U.S citizens to buy health care, then it follows that the government is stripped of several of its nonchalantly exercised powers. This is nothing new, this enters no previously uncrossed territory.

The provisions of the Affordable Care Act are merely a new curtain over a century-old stage. If the Justices want to question the might and scope of the government through this case, then fine. But at least they should be consistent.

This is no defense. That there is a precedent of unjust coercion is something to be disgusted by, not a defense of the individual mandate.

In the last part of the rant I said "If the Justices want to question the might and scope of the government through this case, then fine. But at least they should be consistent."

Did you read that part?...

Yes, but it's pretty obvious you put that in just to avoid being accused of citing precedent as an argument. Doesn't mean that you aren't defending the mandate.

How are you going to tell me what I am and am not arguing.

Forgot a ? mark. ^.^

I was not defending anything. I was attacking the Justice's rationale as being inconsistent. I was also attacking the argument that the mandate was unprecedented.

And attacking the rationale behind an argument against something is defending that even if not directly.

...But apparently, in your mind that all boiled down to Liberal + individual mandate = defense of individual mandate.

Haha, you can't honestly expect me to believe that you just made this thread to criticize an argument. You WORSHIP Obama and the democrats, and seem to consider virtually all Republicans evil and ignorant. It's fairly obvious why you made the thread.

I can't say I'm shocked.

(: love you too <3

Fixed
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
thett3
Posts: 14,348
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3/27/2012 7:06:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm just trolling you in case you didnt know
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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3/27/2012 7:07:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 7:00:36 PM, thett3 wrote:

Haha, you can't honestly expect me to believe that you just made this thread to criticize an argument. You WORSHIP Obama and the democrats, and seem to consider virtually all Republicans evil and ignorant. It's fairly obvious why you made the thread.

There must be some kind of buffer in your mind that contorts things to whatever you would prefer for them to mean. I thought my argument was straightforward and clear, and there is nothing to suggest that it was a defense of the mandate. You're just making things up.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
thett3
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3/27/2012 7:09:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 7:07:06 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/27/2012 7:00:36 PM, thett3 wrote:

Haha, you can't honestly expect me to believe that you just made this thread to criticize an argument. You WORSHIP Obama and the democrats, and seem to consider virtually all Republicans evil and ignorant. It's fairly obvious why you made the thread.

There must be some kind of buffer in your mind that contorts things to whatever you would prefer for them to mean. I thought my argument was straightforward and clear, and there is nothing to suggest that it was a defense of the mandate. You're just making things up.

At 3/27/2012 7:06:00 PM, thett3 wrote:
I'm just trolling you in case you didnt know
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
000ike
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3/27/2012 7:10:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
But I do support the mandate by the way. :)
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
thett3
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3/27/2012 7:11:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 7:10:30 PM, 000ike wrote:
But I do support the mandate by the way. :)

I figured. Don't we have something similar for car insurance? In my state we do at least (ironic..)
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
lewis20
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3/27/2012 7:13:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I read the Constitution once, the mandate is unconstitutional.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
000ike
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3/27/2012 7:13:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 7:11:51 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/27/2012 7:10:30 PM, 000ike wrote:
But I do support the mandate by the way. :)

I figured. Don't we have something similar for car insurance? In my state we do at least (ironic..)

That's the part that annoys me
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
thett3
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3/27/2012 7:15:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 7:13:44 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/27/2012 7:11:51 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/27/2012 7:10:30 PM, 000ike wrote:
But I do support the mandate by the way. :)

I figured. Don't we have something similar for car insurance? In my state we do at least (ironic..)

That's the part that annoys me

Sorry, let me explain: I remember seeing that you supported national healthcare on your profile. And you're a staunch supporter of Obama so it would be surprising if you were against his crowning achievement...
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

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"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
000ike
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3/27/2012 7:20:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 7:13:41 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I read the Constitution once, the mandate is unconstitutional.

The sheer insight and voluminous intellectualism poured into your argument is inspiring to Americans everywhere. The court should cease their hearings and base their decision on this masterpiece you just crafted on the entire issue. Thank you, the sanctity of the Constitution and those who protect it are in your debt.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
thett3
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3/27/2012 7:22:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 7:20:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/27/2012 7:13:41 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I read the Constitution once, the mandate is unconstitutional.

The sheer insight and voluminous intellectualism poured into your argument is inspiring to Americans everywhere. The court should cease their hearings and base their decision on this masterpiece you just crafted on the entire issue. Thank you, the sanctity of the Constitution and those who protect it are in your debt.

Agreed. This deserves a:
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
lewis20
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3/27/2012 7:24:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 7:20:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/27/2012 7:13:41 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I read the Constitution once, the mandate is unconstitutional.

The sheer insight and voluminous intellectualism poured into your argument is inspiring to Americans everywhere. The court should cease their hearings and base their decision on this masterpiece you just crafted on the entire issue. Thank you, the sanctity of the Constitution and those who protect it are in your debt.

It's really not that complicated of document, all you got's to do is read it.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
000ike
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3/27/2012 7:39:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 7:24:25 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/27/2012 7:20:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/27/2012 7:13:41 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I read the Constitution once, the mandate is unconstitutional.

The sheer insight and voluminous intellectualism poured into your argument is inspiring to Americans everywhere. The court should cease their hearings and base their decision on this masterpiece you just crafted on the entire issue. Thank you, the sanctity of the Constitution and those who protect it are in your debt.

It's really not that complicated of document, all you got's to do is read it.

Unbreakable Union of freeborn Republics,
Great Russia has welded forever to stand.
Created in struggle by will of the people,
United and mighty, our Soviet land!

Sing to the Motherland, home of the free,
Bulwark of peoples in brotherhood strong.
O Party of Lenin, the strength of the people,
To Communism's triumph lead us on!
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
PARADIGM_L0ST
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3/27/2012 7:40:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm glad that he's been so clear and consistent on the subject.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
000ike
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3/27/2012 7:44:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 7:40:33 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:


I'm glad that he's been so clear and consistent on the subject.

Long live our Soviet Motherland, built by the people's mighty hand.
Long live our People, united and free.
Strong in our friendship tried by fire. Long may our crimson flag inspire,
Shining in glory for all men to see.

We fought for the future, destroyed the invader,
and brought to our homeland the Laurels of Fame.
Our glory will live in the memory of nations
and all generations will honour her name.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/27/2012 8:34:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 7:39:21 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/27/2012 7:24:25 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/27/2012 7:20:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/27/2012 7:13:41 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I read the Constitution once, the mandate is unconstitutional.

The sheer insight and voluminous intellectualism poured into your argument is inspiring to Americans everywhere. The court should cease their hearings and base their decision on this masterpiece you just crafted on the entire issue. Thank you, the sanctity of the Constitution and those who protect it are in your debt.

It's really not that complicated of document, all you got's to do is read it.

Unbreakable Union of freeborn Republics,
Great Russia has welded forever to stand.
Created in struggle by will of the people,
United and mighty, our Soviet land!

Sing to the Motherland, home of the free,
Bulwark of peoples in brotherhood strong.
O Party of Lenin, the strength of the people,
To Communism's triumph lead us on!

I don't get it.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/27/2012 8:40:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Constitutional thunderdome, can the govt. force you to buy food?
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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3/27/2012 8:52:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 8:34:36 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/27/2012 7:39:21 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/27/2012 7:24:25 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/27/2012 7:20:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/27/2012 7:13:41 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I read the Constitution once, the mandate is unconstitutional.

The sheer insight and voluminous intellectualism poured into your argument is inspiring to Americans everywhere. The court should cease their hearings and base their decision on this masterpiece you just crafted on the entire issue. Thank you, the sanctity of the Constitution and those who protect it are in your debt.

It's really not that complicated of document, all you got's to do is read it.

Unbreakable Union of freeborn Republics,
Great Russia has welded forever to stand.
Created in struggle by will of the people,
United and mighty, our Soviet land!

Sing to the Motherland, home of the free,
Bulwark of peoples in brotherhood strong.
O Party of Lenin, the strength of the people,
To Communism's triumph lead us on!

I don't get it.

There was nothing to get lol. I wish the U.S had Russia's anthem, just with different words.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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3/28/2012 1:08:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/27/2012 5:55:09 PM, 000ike wrote:
There is nothing "new" or "unprecedented" about the government mandating a purchase. If we were so opposed to such compulsive decrees, we would have brought this question up in the wake of income taxes and drafts! If it is suddenly unjustified to force U.S citizens to buy health care, then it follows that the government is stripped of several of its nonchalantly exercised powers. This is nothing new, this enters no previously uncrossed territory.

A draft is authorized by the Constitutional authority to raise an army. Taxes are specifically authorized by the constitution, and the income tax by a later amendment to the Constitution. State can require purchases under powers reserved to the States; thus Romneycare in Massachusetts was not subject to Constitutional challenge. If Obamacare had been passed as a tax increase and a government benefit, it would have passed the Constitutional test under the same banner as social Security and Medicare.

The grounds claimed by the Government is under interstate commerce clause, even though it is against the law to sell medical insurance across state lines. The claim is that everyone participates in the market for health service sooner or later and that the prices for health care in any one location influences prices elsewhere, so the mandate to buy health insurance is regulation of interstate commerce.

The broccoli argument is that everyone participates in the food market sooner or later, so by the same logic the Federal government can mandate what food you must buy. Everyone dies, so there is grounds for mandating life insurance. Everyone uses transportation, so they can mandate what car you must buy. It opens up virtually limitless mandates to buy products.

Obama stated clearly and repeatedly that Obamacare was not a tax. The bill never mentions it being a tax. The government is now arguing that it is a tax, and hence justified by the authorization to levy taxes.

Interestingly, CNN coverage today was that the government arguments were blown away completely. Fox News was more cautious, saying that the government seemed to have a lot of trouble, but that one never knows how the court will rule.