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O say can you see, the U. S. Oligarchy?

GreatestIam
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4/5/2012 7:21:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
O say can you see, the U. S. Oligarchy?

The U. S. is on sale. Buy it while it's hot.

O say can you see,
by the dawn's early light,
what so proudly we hailed
we now proudly renounce.
democracy

http://blog.ted.com...

Plato theorized that democracies, as they matured, evolved into oligarchies or plutocracies. We are witnessing exactly that.

When the new political election funding laws came into effect, the U. S. democratic system became an oligarchy or plutocracy. Billionaires are now buying political candidates and are in fact buying the leadership of the nation. They are now the power behind the throne and control the government and thus the people. Now, instead of working 9 to 5, Americans are working 24/7.

When did the U. S. devolve from the leading democracy of the West, to a tyranny up for sale?

Regards
DL
16kadams
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4/5/2012 7:24:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
were not a true democracy, like what plato was talking about. We are a constitutional republic, a more stable version of a democracy.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
000ike
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4/5/2012 7:31:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
You're assuming that the U.S was ever NOT an oligarchy/plutocracy. The most ironic part of our founding is that after all that idealistic logorrhea in the Declaration of Independence, we went ahead and made only property-owning, upperclass, white, males eligible to vote. The president and Congress was made up of aristocratic giants who did not need the public's approval to enter office.

This has always been the way it is...unfortunately
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
OberHerr
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4/5/2012 7:32:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2012 7:31:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
You're assuming that the U.S was ever NOT an oligarchy/plutocracy. The most ironic part of our founding is that after all that idealistic logorrhea in the Declaration of Independence, we went ahead and made only property-owning, upperclass, white, males eligible to vote. The president and Congress was made up of aristocratic giants who did not need the public's approval to enter office.

This has always been the way it is...unfortunately

And you say you love this country.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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4/5/2012 7:33:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2012 7:32:20 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:31:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
You're assuming that the U.S was ever NOT an oligarchy/plutocracy. The most ironic part of our founding is that after all that idealistic logorrhea in the Declaration of Independence, we went ahead and made only property-owning, upperclass, white, males eligible to vote. The president and Congress was made up of aristocratic giants who did not need the public's approval to enter office.

This has always been the way it is...unfortunately

And you say you love this country.

loving America =/= ignoring America's faults
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
OberHerr
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4/5/2012 7:35:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2012 7:33:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:32:20 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:31:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
You're assuming that the U.S was ever NOT an oligarchy/plutocracy. The most ironic part of our founding is that after all that idealistic logorrhea in the Declaration of Independence, we went ahead and made only property-owning, upperclass, white, males eligible to vote. The president and Congress was made up of aristocratic giants who did not need the public's approval to enter office.

This has always been the way it is...unfortunately

And you say you love this country.

loving America =/= ignoring America's faults

Except, you seem to like nothing about this country.

Also, that's a pretty darn big fault, and is based sharply on opinion.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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4/5/2012 7:35:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
As always:

http://www.opensecrets.org...

Yes, there are a lot of corporations listed. However there are also unions, trade organizations, and ActBlue is #1, which is just funding for the democract party.

I've never understood why people just think its large corporations that influence government, and not unions as well.
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airmax1227
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4/5/2012 7:41:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2012 7:35:43 PM, darkkermit wrote:
As always:

http://www.opensecrets.org...

Yes, there are a lot of corporations listed. However there are also unions, trade organizations, and ActBlue is #1, which is just funding for the democract party.

I've never understood why people just think its large corporations that influence government, and not unions as well.

Cool link...

I live in Wisconsin... The unions owned the government here for at least the past decade.
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Contra
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4/5/2012 7:41:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2012 7:35:43 PM, darkkermit wrote:
As always:

http://www.opensecrets.org...

Yes, there are a lot of corporations listed. However there are also unions, trade organizations, and ActBlue is #1, which is just funding for the democract party.

I've never understood why people just think its large corporations that influence government, and not unions as well.

Besides the Midwest, I think Unions don't have much strength (unless you are talking of the Teacher Unions).
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

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000ike
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4/5/2012 7:41:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2012 7:35:06 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:33:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:32:20 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:31:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
You're assuming that the U.S was ever NOT an oligarchy/plutocracy. The most ironic part of our founding is that after all that idealistic logorrhea in the Declaration of Independence, we went ahead and made only property-owning, upperclass, white, males eligible to vote. The president and Congress was made up of aristocratic giants who did not need the public's approval to enter office.

This has always been the way it is...unfortunately

And you say you love this country.

loving America =/= ignoring America's faults


Except, you seem to like nothing about this country.

Also, that's a pretty darn big fault, and is based sharply on opinion.

What a stupid assertion. I love America for being among the most tolerant and progressive societies in the world. I love America for always having a mechanism of change and giving great worth to each individual. I love America mostly for being born here and being an American. You don't know me in person, and have no basis for saying something so ridiculously false like that.

Second of all, did you just say my claims are opinions? You obviously know nothing about U.S history if you really think there hasn't always been an oligarchy, voting limits, and corporate and aristocratic control over the democratic process.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
OberHerr
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4/5/2012 7:45:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2012 7:41:40 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:35:06 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:33:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:32:20 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:31:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
You're assuming that the U.S was ever NOT an oligarchy/plutocracy. The most ironic part of our founding is that after all that idealistic logorrhea in the Declaration of Independence, we went ahead and made only property-owning, upperclass, white, males eligible to vote. The president and Congress was made up of aristocratic giants who did not need the public's approval to enter office.

This has always been the way it is...unfortunately

And you say you love this country.

loving America =/= ignoring America's faults


Except, you seem to like nothing about this country.

Also, that's a pretty darn big fault, and is based sharply on opinion.

What a stupid assertion. I love America for being among the most tolerant and progressive societies in the world. I love America for always having a mechanism of change and giving great worth to each individual. I love America mostly for being born here and being an American. You don't know me in person, and have no basis for saying something so ridiculously false like that.

Second of all, did you just say my claims are opinions? You obviously know nothing about U.S history if you really think there hasn't always been an oligarchy, voting limits, and corporate and aristocratic control over the democratic process.

Duh there HAS been some of those things, like voting limits, and there is a certain amount of aristocracy in America.

However, I fail to see how you can conclusively piece to me that we live in an oligarchy, and that corporate people rule this nation in reality.

BOP on you sir, prove it to me.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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16kadams
Posts: 10,527
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4/5/2012 7:47:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2012 7:45:02 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:41:40 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:35:06 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:33:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:32:20 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:31:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
You're assuming that the U.S was ever NOT an oligarchy/plutocracy. The most ironic part of our founding is that after all that idealistic logorrhea in the Declaration of Independence, we went ahead and made only property-owning, upperclass, white, males eligible to vote. The president and Congress was made up of aristocratic giants who did not need the public's approval to enter office.

This has always been the way it is...unfortunately

And you say you love this country.

loving America =/= ignoring America's faults


Except, you seem to like nothing about this country.

Also, that's a pretty darn big fault, and is based sharply on opinion.

What a stupid assertion. I love America for being among the most tolerant and progressive societies in the world. I love America for always having a mechanism of change and giving great worth to each individual. I love America mostly for being born here and being an American. You don't know me in person, and have no basis for saying something so ridiculously false like that.

Second of all, did you just say my claims are opinions? You obviously know nothing about U.S history if you really think there hasn't always been an oligarchy, voting limits, and corporate and aristocratic control over the democratic process.

Duh there HAS been some of those things, like voting limits, and there is a certain amount of aristocracy in America.

However, I fail to see how you can conclusively piece to me that we live in an oligarchy, and that corporate people rule this nation in reality.

BOP on you sir, prove it to me.

All countries are oligarchy's, as only a few people overall vote.

BOP is on you, ober, as your arguments are historically false. One could claim the cooperate person hood is oligarchy, voting limits on a large portion of the populous, segregation, bigotry etc. Ober, as much as I wished we where following the constitution and where a true run by the common folk, I must sadly report we are not.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
OberHerr
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4/5/2012 7:50:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2012 7:47:52 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:45:02 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:41:40 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:35:06 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:33:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:32:20 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:31:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
You're assuming that the U.S was ever NOT an oligarchy/plutocracy. The most ironic part of our founding is that after all that idealistic logorrhea in the Declaration of Independence, we went ahead and made only property-owning, upperclass, white, males eligible to vote. The president and Congress was made up of aristocratic giants who did not need the public's approval to enter office.

This has always been the way it is...unfortunately

And you say you love this country.

loving America =/= ignoring America's faults


Except, you seem to like nothing about this country.

Also, that's a pretty darn big fault, and is based sharply on opinion.

What a stupid assertion. I love America for being among the most tolerant and progressive societies in the world. I love America for always having a mechanism of change and giving great worth to each individual. I love America mostly for being born here and being an American. You don't know me in person, and have no basis for saying something so ridiculously false like that.

Second of all, did you just say my claims are opinions? You obviously know nothing about U.S history if you really think there hasn't always been an oligarchy, voting limits, and corporate and aristocratic control over the democratic process.

Duh there HAS been some of those things, like voting limits, and there is a certain amount of aristocracy in America.

However, I fail to see how you can conclusively piece to me that we live in an oligarchy, and that corporate people rule this nation in reality.

BOP on you sir, prove it to me.

All countries are oligarchy's, as only a few people overall vote.

BOP is on you, ober, as your arguments are historically false. One could claim the cooperate person hood is oligarchy, voting limits on a large portion of the populous, segregation, bigotry etc. Ober, as much as I wished we where following the constitution and where a true run by the common folk, I must sadly report we are not.

?

Are you joking, or serious?

Cause, that made no sense.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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4/5/2012 7:51:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2012 7:45:02 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:41:40 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:35:06 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:33:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:32:20 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:31:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
You're assuming that the U.S was ever NOT an oligarchy/plutocracy. The most ironic part of our founding is that after all that idealistic logorrhea in the Declaration of Independence, we went ahead and made only property-owning, upperclass, white, males eligible to vote. The president and Congress was made up of aristocratic giants who did not need the public's approval to enter office.

This has always been the way it is...unfortunately

And you say you love this country.

loving America =/= ignoring America's faults


Except, you seem to like nothing about this country.

Also, that's a pretty darn big fault, and is based sharply on opinion.

What a stupid assertion. I love America for being among the most tolerant and progressive societies in the world. I love America for always having a mechanism of change and giving great worth to each individual. I love America mostly for being born here and being an American. You don't know me in person, and have no basis for saying something so ridiculously false like that.

Second of all, did you just say my claims are opinions? You obviously know nothing about U.S history if you really think there hasn't always been an oligarchy, voting limits, and corporate and aristocratic control over the democratic process.

Duh there HAS been some of those things, like voting limits, and there is a certain amount of aristocracy in America.

However, I fail to see how you can conclusively piece to me that we live in an oligarchy, and that corporate people rule this nation in reality.

BOP on you sir, prove it to me.

1. Pre-Jacksonian aristocracy - white, male, property owners decided who would be president and who would be governor,....and the governor decided who would be your senator....

2. Gilded Age: Political Machines - corporate tycoons would use their influence and money to "buy" immigrant votes (ex. Tamany Hall, Boss Tweed)

3. Reconstruction poll taxes, grandfather clause, literacy tests

4. the video of corporate giant Donald Regan telling Ronald Reagan (then president of the U.S) to "speed it up"

4. Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission

There's a lot more, but this is all that comes to mind right now
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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4/5/2012 7:51:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2012 7:24:25 PM, 16kadams wrote:
were not a true democracy, like what plato was talking about. We are a constitutional republic, a more stable version of a democracy.

This.

According to Aristotle there are 3 main constitutions with 6 sub constitutions.

The 3 main constitutions are;
1.) Monarchy (1 person holds sovereignty over the 3 branches of government)
2.) Oligarchy (a few elites hold sovereignty over the 3 branches of government)
3.) Democracy (the common people hold sovereignty over the 3 branches of government)

The 6 sub constitutions are;
Monarchy
1.) Monarchy (serves the whole community)
2.) Tyranny (serves only one man) [illegitimate monarchy]
Oligarchy
3.) Aristocracy (Serves the entire community) [oligarchy of the best]
4.) Oligarchy (Serves only the elites)
Democracy
5.) Politeuma aka Republic (Serves the entire community) [Democracy restricted by rue of law]
6.) Democracy (serves the majority)

According to Aristotle, a Republic takes the form of a Representative Democracy; what sets it aside from a Representative democracy is that it follows the rule of law, whereas a democracy is unrestricted by law.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
OberHerr
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4/5/2012 7:53:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The assertion here is that, no matter what, the one the corporations pick will win.

So, therefore, prove to me that has been the case though out all of US history, cause all I'm seeing right now are minor in comparison.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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000ike
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4/5/2012 7:55:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2012 7:53:10 PM, OberHerr wrote:
The assertion here is that, no matter what, the one the corporations pick will win.

So, therefore, prove to me that has been the case though out all of US history, cause all I'm seeing right now are minor in comparison.

The candidate that spent the most amount of money has virtually always won....How much money do they spend? Well, the corporations decide that....
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
16kadams
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4/5/2012 7:55:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2012 7:53:10 PM, OberHerr wrote:
The assertion here is that, no matter what, the one the corporations pick will win.

That's rule by a few, oligarchy.


So, therefore, prove to me that has been the case though out all of US history, cause all I'm seeing right now are minor in comparison.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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4/5/2012 7:56:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2012 7:55:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:53:10 PM, OberHerr wrote:
The assertion here is that, no matter what, the one the corporations pick will win.

So, therefore, prove to me that has been the case though out all of US history, cause all I'm seeing right now are minor in comparison.

The candidate that spent the most amount of money has virtually always won....How much money do they spend? Well, the corporations decide that....

And, yet, you still have yet to give me any proof that this is the case throughout all US history.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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16kadams
Posts: 10,527
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4/5/2012 7:56:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2012 7:56:06 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:55:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:53:10 PM, OberHerr wrote:
The assertion here is that, no matter what, the one the corporations pick will win.

So, therefore, prove to me that has been the case though out all of US history, cause all I'm seeing right now are minor in comparison.

The candidate that spent the most amount of money has virtually always won....How much money do they spend? Well, the corporations decide that....

And, yet, you still have yet to give me any proof that this is the case throughout all US history.

http://www.opensecrets.org...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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4/5/2012 7:58:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2012 7:56:06 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:55:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:53:10 PM, OberHerr wrote:
The assertion here is that, no matter what, the one the corporations pick will win.

So, therefore, prove to me that has been the case though out all of US history, cause all I'm seeing right now are minor in comparison.

The candidate that spent the most amount of money has virtually always won....How much money do they spend? Well, the corporations decide that....

And, yet, you still have yet to give me any proof that this is the case throughout all US history.

No one argued that corporations controlled elections 100% in every U.S election. What was argued is that the corporate and wealthy presence has had tremendous influence over the outcome of elections since the birth of the nation,...a system that can be viewed as an oligarchy.

You're strawmanning everything and covering your eyes and ears to the facts because the truth offends you.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
16kadams
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4/5/2012 7:59:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2012 7:50:41 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:47:52 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:45:02 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:41:40 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:35:06 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:33:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:32:20 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:31:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
You're assuming that the U.S was ever NOT an oligarchy/plutocracy. The most ironic part of our founding is that after all that idealistic logorrhea in the Declaration of Independence, we went ahead and made only property-owning, upperclass, white, males eligible to vote. The president and Congress was made up of aristocratic giants who did not need the public's approval to enter office.

This has always been the way it is...unfortunately

And you say you love this country.

loving America =/= ignoring America's faults


Except, you seem to like nothing about this country.

Also, that's a pretty darn big fault, and is based sharply on opinion.

What a stupid assertion. I love America for being among the most tolerant and progressive societies in the world. I love America for always having a mechanism of change and giving great worth to each individual. I love America mostly for being born here and being an American. You don't know me in person, and have no basis for saying something so ridiculously false like that.

Second of all, did you just say my claims are opinions? You obviously know nothing about U.S history if you really think there hasn't always been an oligarchy, voting limits, and corporate and aristocratic control over the democratic process.

Duh there HAS been some of those things, like voting limits, and there is a certain amount of aristocracy in America.

However, I fail to see how you can conclusively piece to me that we live in an oligarchy, and that corporate people rule this nation in reality.

BOP on you sir, prove it to me.

All countries are oligarchy's, as only a few people overall vote.

BOP is on you, ober, as your arguments are historically false. One could claim the cooperate person hood is oligarchy, voting limits on a large portion of the populous, segregation, bigotry etc. Ober, as much as I wished we where following the constitution and where a true run by the common folk, I must sadly report we are not.

?


Are you joking, or serious?

Cause, that made no sense.

I proved we are ruled by a few...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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4/5/2012 7:59:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2012 7:56:53 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:56:06 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:55:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:53:10 PM, OberHerr wrote:
The assertion here is that, no matter what, the one the corporations pick will win.

So, therefore, prove to me that has been the case though out all of US history, cause all I'm seeing right now are minor in comparison.

The candidate that spent the most amount of money has virtually always won....How much money do they spend? Well, the corporations decide that....

And, yet, you still have yet to give me any proof that this is the case throughout all US history.

http://www.opensecrets.org...

Once again, throughout all of US history....
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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4/5/2012 8:01:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2012 7:58:57 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:56:06 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:55:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:53:10 PM, OberHerr wrote:
The assertion here is that, no matter what, the one the corporations pick will win.

So, therefore, prove to me that has been the case though out all of US history, cause all I'm seeing right now are minor in comparison.

The candidate that spent the most amount of money has virtually always won....How much money do they spend? Well, the corporations decide that....

And, yet, you still have yet to give me any proof that this is the case throughout all US history.

No one argued that corporations controlled elections 100% in every U.S election. What was argued is that the corporate and wealthy presence has had tremendous influence over the outcome of elections since the birth of the nation,...a system that can be viewed as an oligarchy.

You're strawmanning everything and covering your eyes and ears to the facts because the truth offends you.

No, because you specifically said that this has been the case since the birth of our nation.

So, it should be rather simple to provide me with facts that support this.

Yes, they do have some effect, but so does the other millions pumped in by normal citizens.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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4/6/2012 12:29:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2012 7:24:25 PM, 16kadams wrote:
were not a true democracy, like what plato was talking about. We are a constitutional republic, a more stable version of a democracy.

Do you see yourself well protected when your government goes to the highest bidder?
You can call yourself what you like as long as you remember to add---owned by.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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4/6/2012 12:46:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I see that some have focussed on the past and that is interesting but my focus is on the present and future and how we can shed ourselves of our rich and powerful masters. Masters have no place in the democracy that I envisage unless put in that position by a well informed electorate.

Regards
DL
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,052
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4/6/2012 1:04:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2012 12:46:02 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
I see that some have focussed on the past and that is interesting but my focus is on the present and future and how we can shed ourselves of our rich and powerful masters. Masters have no place in the democracy that I envisage unless put in that position by a well informed electorate.

Regards
DL

I think that's the key right there. If we are to have a chance at a successful political system, we need to inform ourselves much more about the world we live in.
But if the chance remains
to see those better days,
I'd cut the cannons down.

- Vampire Weekend "Giving Up the Gun"
GreatestIam
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4/9/2012 9:03:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Yes.

You will note though that the media is handing us reality T V instead of intelligent T V.
Schools all sing the anthem but do not know what it is for.

Note who owns them.

Regards
DL
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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4/9/2012 9:24:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2012 7:59:14 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:50:41 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:47:52 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:45:02 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:41:40 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:35:06 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:33:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:32:20 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/5/2012 7:31:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
You're assuming that the U.S was ever NOT an oligarchy/plutocracy. The most ironic part of our founding is that after all that idealistic logorrhea in the Declaration of Independence, we went ahead and made only property-owning, upperclass, white, males eligible to vote. The president and Congress was made up of aristocratic giants who did not need the public's approval to enter office.

This has always been the way it is...unfortunately

And you say you love this country.

loving America =/= ignoring America's faults


Except, you seem to like nothing about this country.

Also, that's a pretty darn big fault, and is based sharply on opinion.

What a stupid assertion. I love America for being among the most tolerant and progressive societies in the world. I love America for always having a mechanism of change and giving great worth to each individual. I love America mostly for being born here and being an American. You don't know me in person, and have no basis for saying something so ridiculously false like that.

Second of all, did you just say my claims are opinions? You obviously know nothing about U.S history if you really think there hasn't always been an oligarchy, voting limits, and corporate and aristocratic control over the democratic process.

Duh there HAS been some of those things, like voting limits, and there is a certain amount of aristocracy in America.

However, I fail to see how you can conclusively piece to me that we live in an oligarchy, and that corporate people rule this nation in reality.

BOP on you sir, prove it to me.

All countries are oligarchy's, as only a few people overall vote.

BOP is on you, ober, as your arguments are historically false. One could claim the cooperate person hood is oligarchy, voting limits on a large portion of the populous, segregation, bigotry etc. Ober, as much as I wished we where following the constitution and where a true run by the common folk, I must sadly report we are not.

?


Are you joking, or serious?

Cause, that made no sense.

I proved we are ruled by a few...

an oligarchy is the sovereignty of a few, as opposed to a monarchy, which has 1 sovereign, and a democracy which the sovereigns are the common people.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle