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Is Obamacare the right thing for ths country?

Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/13/2012 5:17:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

Just to start a debate on the forums, Universal, Single-Payer health care would be a much better idea for our nation.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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4/13/2012 5:19:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 5:17:31 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

Just to start a debate on the forums, Universal, Single-Payer health care would be a much better idea for our nation.

Sure... if you like a massive bureaucratic system to administer healthcare that is rampant with inefficiency and failure.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/13/2012 5:20:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 5:19:28 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:17:31 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

Just to start a debate on the forums, Universal, Single-Payer health care would be a much better idea for our nation.

Sure... if you like a massive bureaucratic system to administer healthcare that is rampant with inefficiency and failure.

I know this is what a private health insurance system is, SP is brilliantly efficient and simple.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,305
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4/13/2012 5:27:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 5:19:28 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:17:31 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

Just to start a debate on the forums, Universal, Single-Payer health care would be a much better idea for our nation.

Sure... if you like a massive bureaucratic system to administer healthcare that is rampant with inefficiency and failure.

They both are not perfect, just one is alot less accountable to the consumer than the other. ie: doesn't care about waste etc.
airmax1227
Posts: 13,244
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4/13/2012 5:28:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

It doesn't seem to achieve the basic goals it was set to achieve. Affordable healthcare for those that most need it, and can least afford it. In the end it added a couple nice things, but fails in almost every other aspect as far as I can tell.

Will the Obama plan to end homelessness just add a tax to everyone who can't afford to buy a home?

One party rule, and a desire to get a decent health care plan... The president should have held out rather than go with political expediency. So we essentially got nothing that achieves the initial goal, and that is what I am most upset about.

On the other hand, we can all sing kumbaya and reelect him because it almost looks like he tried. yay.

End rant.
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Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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4/13/2012 5:29:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 5:20:33 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:19:28 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:17:31 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

Just to start a debate on the forums, Universal, Single-Payer health care would be a much better idea for our nation.

Sure... if you like a massive bureaucratic system to administer healthcare that is rampant with inefficiency and failure.

I know this is what a private health insurance system is, SP is brilliantly efficient and simple.

So a system that relies on market equilibrium, supply, demand, and the wants of the consumers is less efficient than a system which does not rely on markets and only on the "hearts" of bureaucratic employees?

Right.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
airmax1227
Posts: 13,244
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4/13/2012 5:32:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I live in Wisconsin, I'd really like to be able to buy insurance from a provider in California. Having an open market would have naturally driven down costs to the consumer.

Does anyone have any insights as to why this was never even considered?
Is there too much legal stuff involved or other aspects I'm not aware of?
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Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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4/13/2012 5:35:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 5:32:32 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
I live in Wisconsin, I'd really like to be able to buy insurance from a provider in California. Having an open market would have naturally driven down costs to the consumer.

Does anyone have any insights as to why this was never even considered?
Is there too much legal stuff involved or other aspects I'm not aware of?

So that specific states can set their own requirements on insurance.

Republicans are trying to eliminate these regulations to a halt.

http://www.ama-assn.org...

Not sure it will pass, though.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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4/13/2012 5:36:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 5:27:30 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:19:28 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:17:31 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

Just to start a debate on the forums, Universal, Single-Payer health care would be a much better idea for our nation.

Sure... if you like a massive bureaucratic system to administer healthcare that is rampant with inefficiency and failure.

They both are not perfect, just one is alot less accountable to the consumer than the other. ie: doesn't care about waste etc.

Yeah Obamacare is allot less accountable, because the Bureaucrats who run it, are not elected, and unlike free-market insurances, you can't switch to a competitor.

Also, unlike the private insurance, Obamacare is funded by taxation, and won't go out of business when it craps out.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/13/2012 5:41:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 5:28:33 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

It doesn't seem to achieve the basic goals it was set to achieve. Affordable healthcare for those that most need it, and can least afford it. In the end it added a couple nice things, but fails in almost every other aspect as far as I can tell.

Will the Obama plan to end homelessness just add a tax to everyone who can't afford to buy a home?

One party rule, and a desire to get a decent health care plan... The president should have held out rather than go with political expediency. So we essentially got nothing that achieves the initial goal, and that is what I am most upset about.

On the other hand, we can all sing kumbaya and reelect him because it almost looks like he tried. yay.

End rant.

True, the ACA isn't good.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/13/2012 5:49:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

"Ten years of Obamacare would cost 1.76 trillon dollars – far more than originally claimed"
-- http://www.infowars.com...

And that's not even the worst part of it.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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4/13/2012 6:11:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

-- COST

527 billion per year. Or 300 billion. depends on the study, it costs a crap load. Another study says 1 trillion dollars. It costs a lot.
http://www.infowars.com...
http://www.forbes.com...

-- Economic cost

To sum it up:

"According to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, Obamacare will reduce the labor force by 800,000 over the next decade and estimates that the cost to American businesses due to inability or failure to comply will be $52 billion. The last thing our economy needs is even more hurdles to job creation, yet that is precisely what the healthcare law represents."
http://www.usnews.com...

And many others, but no, no more obamacare.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/13/2012 6:33:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 6:11:22 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

-- COST

527 billion per year. Or 300 billion. depends on the study, it costs a crap load. Another study says 1 trillion dollars. It costs a lot.
http://www.infowars.com...
http://www.forbes.com...

-- Economic cost

To sum it up:

"According to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, Obamacare will reduce the labor force by 800,000 over the next decade and estimates that the cost to American businesses due to inability or failure to comply will be $52 billion. The last thing our economy needs is even more hurdles to job creation, yet that is precisely what the healthcare law represents."
http://www.usnews.com...

And many others, but no, no more obamacare.

I honestly don't care about Obamacare enough to defend it. SP is much better, why defend a defected system.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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4/13/2012 6:46:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 6:33:41 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/13/2012 6:11:22 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

-- COST

527 billion per year. Or 300 billion. depends on the study, it costs a crap load. Another study says 1 trillion dollars. It costs a lot.
http://www.infowars.com...
http://www.forbes.com...

-- Economic cost

To sum it up:

"According to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, Obamacare will reduce the labor force by 800,000 over the next decade and estimates that the cost to American businesses due to inability or failure to comply will be $52 billion. The last thing our economy needs is even more hurdles to job creation, yet that is precisely what the healthcare law represents."
http://www.usnews.com...

And many others, but no, no more obamacare.

I honestly don't care about Obamacare enough to defend it. SP is much better, why defend a defected system.

I dont want the government controlling my HC, and delaying it, and being like crap.
Read these/this site[s]:
http://www.biggovhealth.org...
http://the-dp-is-good-always.blogspot.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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4/13/2012 6:47:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

If you're a moderate you really should know better than to use a loaded conservative buzzword such as "Obamacare" in the title question of your post, you're just going to bias the responses to and the results of the thread.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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4/13/2012 6:58:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 6:47:22 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

If you're a moderate you really should know better than to use a loaded conservative buzzword such as "Obamacare" in the title question of your post, you're just going to bias the responses to and the results of the thread.

Ok let me re-name it.
"affordable healthcare crap [act]"
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/13/2012 7:01:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 6:47:22 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

If you're a moderate you really should know better than to use a loaded conservative buzzword such as "Obamacare" in the title question of your post, you're just going to bias the responses to and the results of the thread.

Obamacare is what it's called. If he wanted to talk about Universal Healthcare, that's one thing. But clearly he wants to discuss "Obamacare." It's not just a buzzword, it's an actual thing.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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4/13/2012 7:21:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 7:01:07 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/13/2012 6:47:22 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

If you're a moderate you really should know better than to use a loaded conservative buzzword such as "Obamacare" in the title question of your post, you're just going to bias the responses to and the results of the thread.

Obamacare is what it's called. If he wanted to talk about Universal Healthcare, that's one thing. But clearly he wants to discuss "Obamacare." It's not just a buzzword, it's an actual thing.

Wow, your mind really is thoroughly ensconced in libertarian ideology!
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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4/13/2012 8:32:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 7:21:57 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 4/13/2012 7:01:07 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/13/2012 6:47:22 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

If you're a moderate you really should know better than to use a loaded conservative buzzword such as "Obamacare" in the title question of your post, you're just going to bias the responses to and the results of the thread.

Obamacare is what it's called. If he wanted to talk about Universal Healthcare, that's one thing. But clearly he wants to discuss "Obamacare." It's not just a buzzword, it's an actual thing.

Wow, your mind really is thoroughly ensconced in libertarian ideology!

Um......its Healthcare....that Obama pretty much made.....so therefore, Obamacare.......what,would you prefer we call it the Healthcare That Will Solve All Of Your Problems And Make World Peace?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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4/13/2012 8:33:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 5:17:31 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

Just to start a debate on the forums, Universal, Single-Payer health care would be a much better idea for our nation.

Sure, if you think the government is your friend.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/13/2012 9:29:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 8:33:19 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:17:31 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

Just to start a debate on the forums, Universal, Single-Payer health care would be a much better idea for our nation.

Sure, if you think the government is your friend.

In some cases it can be, in other cases they can screw themselves.

For example:

PRO GOV'T:

-Our healthcare insurance for all
-Infrastructure
-Defense
-Safety Net

CON GOV't:

-Dealing with public employees (they cheat them in many cases)
-Coddling big business and big interest groups
-Useless laws and regulations

However, I am not some anti-government zealout like Ronald Reagan and other conservatives. It is frankly bad policy and only good politics.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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4/13/2012 9:32:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 9:29:23 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/13/2012 8:33:19 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:17:31 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

Just to start a debate on the forums, Universal, Single-Payer health care would be a much better idea for our nation.

Sure, if you think the government is your friend.

In some cases it can be, in other cases they can screw themselves.

For example:

PRO GOV'T:

-Our healthcare insurance for all
-Infrastructure
-Defense
-Safety Net

CON GOV't:

-Dealing with public employees (they cheat them in many cases)
-Coddling big business and big interest groups
-Useless laws and regulations

However, I am not some anti-government zealout like Ronald Reagan and other conservatives. It is frankly bad policy and only good politics.

The problem with the liberal and conservative mindsets of government is that they think that they know what's best for other people--which they do not.

That is the fatal flaw of government: it's a coercive, violent institution that pretends like it knows better than its citizens.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/13/2012 9:34:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 9:32:46 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 4/13/2012 9:29:23 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/13/2012 8:33:19 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:17:31 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

Just to start a debate on the forums, Universal, Single-Payer health care would be a much better idea for our nation.

Sure, if you think the government is your friend.

In some cases it can be, in other cases they can screw themselves.

For example:

PRO GOV'T:

-Our healthcare insurance for all
-Infrastructure
-Defense
-Safety Net

CON GOV't:

-Dealing with public employees (they cheat them in many cases)
-Coddling big business and big interest groups
-Useless laws and regulations

However, I am not some anti-government zealout like Ronald Reagan and other conservatives. It is frankly bad policy and only good politics.

The problem with the liberal and conservative mindsets of government is that they think that they know what's best for other people--which they do not.

That is the fatal flaw of government: it's a coercive, violent institution that pretends like it knows better than its citizens.

Liberals and conservatives think that government is best based on their ideological morality. Conservatives want a strict father, "tough love", law of the jungle government. Liberals want a more nurturant, "compassionate", equal opportunity government.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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4/13/2012 9:37:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 9:34:40 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/13/2012 9:32:46 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 4/13/2012 9:29:23 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/13/2012 8:33:19 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:17:31 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

Just to start a debate on the forums, Universal, Single-Payer health care would be a much better idea for our nation.

Sure, if you think the government is your friend.

In some cases it can be, in other cases they can screw themselves.

For example:

PRO GOV'T:

-Our healthcare insurance for all
-Infrastructure
-Defense
-Safety Net

CON GOV't:

-Dealing with public employees (they cheat them in many cases)
-Coddling big business and big interest groups
-Useless laws and regulations

However, I am not some anti-government zealout like Ronald Reagan and other conservatives. It is frankly bad policy and only good politics.

The problem with the liberal and conservative mindsets of government is that they think that they know what's best for other people--which they do not.

That is the fatal flaw of government: it's a coercive, violent institution that pretends like it knows better than its citizens.

Liberals and conservatives think that government is best based on their ideological morality. Conservatives want a strict father, "tough love", law of the jungle government. Liberals want a more nurturant, "compassionate", equal opportunity government.

No....they think that they have the right to impose what they think is best on everyone else. Libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism are among the only ideologies that are nonimposing.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/13/2012 9:39:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 9:37:55 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 4/13/2012 9:34:40 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/13/2012 9:32:46 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 4/13/2012 9:29:23 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/13/2012 8:33:19 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:17:31 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/13/2012 5:16:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
So what are your thoughts? What alternative is there?

Just to start a debate on the forums, Universal, Single-Payer health care would be a much better idea for our nation.

Sure, if you think the government is your friend.

In some cases it can be, in other cases they can screw themselves.

For example:

PRO GOV'T:

-Our healthcare insurance for all
-Infrastructure
-Defense
-Safety Net

CON GOV't:

-Dealing with public employees (they cheat them in many cases)
-Coddling big business and big interest groups
-Useless laws and regulations

However, I am not some anti-government zealout like Ronald Reagan and other conservatives. It is frankly bad policy and only good politics.

The problem with the liberal and conservative mindsets of government is that they think that they know what's best for other people--which they do not.

That is the fatal flaw of government: it's a coercive, violent institution that pretends like it knows better than its citizens.

Liberals and conservatives think that government is best based on their ideological morality. Conservatives want a strict father, "tough love", law of the jungle government. Liberals want a more nurturant, "compassionate", equal opportunity government.

No....they think that they have the right to impose what they think is best on everyone else. Libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism are among the only ideologies that are nonimposing.

Conservatives and liberals do not for the most part want to impose what they believe is best on others by use of force... they view, through their philosophical set on morality which is unconsciously controlled, what government should do. This is what sets Liberals and Conservatives apart on all the issues.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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4/13/2012 9:40:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 9:37:55 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:

No....they think that they have the right to impose what they think is best on everyone else. Libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism are among the only ideologies that are nonimposing.

This is completely non-topical, but where does morality come from?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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4/13/2012 9:41:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 9:40:06 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/13/2012 9:37:55 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:

No....they think that they have the right to impose what they think is best on everyone else. Libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism are among the only ideologies that are nonimposing.

This is completely non-topical, but where does morality come from?

God.

Where else could it come from?
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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4/13/2012 9:43:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 9:40:06 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/13/2012 9:37:55 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:

No....they think that they have the right to impose what they think is best on everyone else. Libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism are among the only ideologies that are nonimposing.

This is completely non-topical, but where does morality come from?

I wasn't making any moral implication directly. There's the indirect implication that people don't want things imposed on them, but still.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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4/13/2012 9:44:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/13/2012 9:41:39 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/13/2012 9:40:06 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/13/2012 9:37:55 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:

No....they think that they have the right to impose what they think is best on everyone else. Libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism are among the only ideologies that are nonimposing.

This is completely non-topical, but where does morality come from?

God.

Where else could it come from?

The problem is that god more likely than not doesn't exist.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus