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The Costs of Free Healthcare

Yarely
Posts: 329
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4/14/2012 12:56:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
What would you prefer, free healthcare in Canada that you would have to wait months for access, or extremely expensive US healthcare that you wouldn't have to wait so long for?
"Anarchism stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion and liberation of the human body from the coercion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government. It stands for a social order based on the free grouping of individuals""
-Emma Goldman
imabench
Posts: 21,219
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4/14/2012 2:26:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 1:53:48 AM, darkkermit wrote:
There ain't no such thing as free healthcare. It's either paid directly or through taxes.

At least SOMEONE gets it
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16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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4/14/2012 7:50:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 12:56:49 AM, Yarely wrote:
What would you prefer, free healthcare in Canada that you would have to wait months for access, or extremely expensive US healthcare that you wouldn't have to wait so long for?

neither
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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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4/14/2012 9:47:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 12:56:49 AM, Yarely wrote:
What would you prefer, free healthcare in Canada that you would have to wait months for access, or extremely expensive US healthcare that you wouldn't have to wait so long for?

US healthcare is not extremely expensive.

And what Kermit said.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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4/14/2012 9:49:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 12:56:49 AM, Yarely wrote:
What would you prefer, free healthcare in Canada that you would have to wait months for access, or extremely expensive US healthcare that you wouldn't have to wait so long for?

You think dying because you waited so long is costly.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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4/14/2012 11:10:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'd prefer healthcare that's free as in libre. No state mandates to insurers, no federal mandates to insurees, neither to providers, so you don't have to pay for anything but what's in the contract.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Yarely
Posts: 329
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4/14/2012 11:18:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 1:53:48 AM, darkkermit wrote:
There ain't no such thing as free healthcare. It's either paid directly or through taxes.

I'm aware that it isn't exactly "free."
It's just what you call it when you pay through taxes
"Anarchism stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion and liberation of the human body from the coercion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government. It stands for a social order based on the free grouping of individuals""
-Emma Goldman
Yarely
Posts: 329
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4/14/2012 11:21:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 9:47:36 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/14/2012 12:56:49 AM, Yarely wrote:
What would you prefer, free healthcare in Canada that you would have to wait months for access, or extremely expensive US healthcare that you wouldn't have to wait so long for?

US healthcare is not extremely expensive.

More money per person is spent on health care in the USA than in any other nation in the world, and a greater percentage of total income in the nation is spent on health care in the USA than in any United Nations member state except for East Timor. A 2001 study in five states found that medical debt contributed to 46.2% of all personal bankruptcies and in 2007, 62.1% of filers for bankruptcies claimed high medical expenses.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

And what Kermit said.
"Anarchism stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion and liberation of the human body from the coercion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government. It stands for a social order based on the free grouping of individuals""
-Emma Goldman
tulle
Posts: 4,445
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4/14/2012 11:24:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 12:56:49 AM, Yarely wrote:
What would you prefer, free healthcare in Canada that you would have to wait months for access,

Months for access to what?

or extremely expensive US healthcare that you wouldn't have to wait so long for?
yang.
Yarely
Posts: 329
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4/14/2012 11:25:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 11:24:17 AM, tulle wrote:
At 4/14/2012 12:56:49 AM, Yarely wrote:
What would you prefer, free healthcare in Canada that you would have to wait months for access,

Months for access to what?

or extremely expensive US healthcare that you wouldn't have to wait so long for?

Months to access healthcare since there is a long line for access to free healthcare
"Anarchism stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion and liberation of the human body from the coercion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government. It stands for a social order based on the free grouping of individuals""
-Emma Goldman
tulle
Posts: 4,445
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4/14/2012 11:33:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 11:25:51 AM, Yarely wrote:
At 4/14/2012 11:24:17 AM, tulle wrote:
At 4/14/2012 12:56:49 AM, Yarely wrote:
What would you prefer, free healthcare in Canada that you would have to wait months for access,

Months for access to what?

or extremely expensive US healthcare that you wouldn't have to wait so long for?

Months to access healthcare since there is a long line for access to free healthcare

Yes, but specifically what? "Healthcare" is a broad term and "months for access to free healthcare" is a broad generalization. If I start coughing right now I could walk into any doctor's office right now and see a doctor right now.
yang.
tulle
Posts: 4,445
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4/14/2012 11:34:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 11:33:43 AM, tulle wrote:
At 4/14/2012 11:25:51 AM, Yarely wrote:
At 4/14/2012 11:24:17 AM, tulle wrote:
At 4/14/2012 12:56:49 AM, Yarely wrote:
What would you prefer, free healthcare in Canada that you would have to wait months for access,

Months for access to what?

or extremely expensive US healthcare that you wouldn't have to wait so long for?

Months to access healthcare since there is a long line for access to free healthcare

Yes, but specifically what? "Healthcare" is a broad term and "months for access to free healthcare" is a broad generalization. If I start coughing right now I could walk into any doctor's office right now and see a doctor right now.

...and I wouldn't pay a dime out of pocket.
yang.
Yarely
Posts: 329
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4/14/2012 11:43:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 11:34:21 AM, tulle wrote:
At 4/14/2012 11:33:43 AM, tulle wrote:
At 4/14/2012 11:25:51 AM, Yarely wrote:
At 4/14/2012 11:24:17 AM, tulle wrote:
At 4/14/2012 12:56:49 AM, Yarely wrote:
What would you prefer, free healthcare in Canada that you would have to wait months for access,

Months for access to what?

or extremely expensive US healthcare that you wouldn't have to wait so long for?

Months to access healthcare since there is a long line for access to free healthcare

Yes, but specifically what? "Healthcare" is a broad term and "months for access to free healthcare" is a broad generalization. If I start coughing right now I could walk into any doctor's office right now and see a doctor right now.

...and I wouldn't pay a dime out of pocket.

Yea it is a broad generalization
This thread was just supposed to be a question of what you think is less burdensome at its worse.
"Anarchism stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion and liberation of the human body from the coercion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government. It stands for a social order based on the free grouping of individuals""
-Emma Goldman
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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4/14/2012 12:20:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 11:21:43 AM, Yarely wrote:
At 4/14/2012 9:47:36 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/14/2012 12:56:49 AM, Yarely wrote:
What would you prefer, free healthcare in Canada that you would have to wait months for access, or extremely expensive US healthcare that you wouldn't have to wait so long for?

US healthcare is not extremely expensive.

More money per person is spent on health care in the USA than in any other nation in the world, and a greater percentage of total income in the nation is spent on health care in the USA than in any United Nations member state except for East Timor. A 2001 study in five states found that medical debt contributed to 46.2% of all personal bankruptcies and in 2007, 62.1% of filers for bankruptcies claimed high medical expenses.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

US healthcare is clusterf ucked. It is nether free market, nor socialist healthcare, therefore making it the worst of both system.

To truly reduce costs and increase efficiency, we need a free market healthcare system that allows competition with absolutely no government involvement for any groups.

And what Kermit said.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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4/14/2012 12:34:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 12:56:49 AM, Yarely wrote:
What would you prefer, free healthcare in Canada that you would have to wait months for access, or extremely expensive US healthcare that you wouldn't have to wait so long for?

There is no such thing as free healthcare
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Yarely
Posts: 329
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4/14/2012 1:08:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 12:34:55 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 12:56:49 AM, Yarely wrote:
What would you prefer, free healthcare in Canada that you would have to wait months for access, or extremely expensive US healthcare that you wouldn't have to wait so long for?

There is no such thing as free healthcare

I am perfectly aware of that
It is just what you call it when you pay for it through taxes

I know "free" healthcare is not exactly "free"
"Anarchism stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion and liberation of the human body from the coercion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government. It stands for a social order based on the free grouping of individuals""
-Emma Goldman
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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4/14/2012 2:43:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 1:08:32 PM, Yarely wrote:
At 4/14/2012 12:34:55 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 12:56:49 AM, Yarely wrote:
What would you prefer, free healthcare in Canada that you would have to wait months for access, or extremely expensive US healthcare that you wouldn't have to wait so long for?

There is no such thing as free healthcare

I am perfectly aware of that
It is just what you call it when you pay for it through taxes

I know "free" healthcare is not exactly "free"

No it's called nationalized healthcare. The term "free healthcare" is only used when someone wishes to intentionally mislead people.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Viper-King
Posts: 4,822
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4/14/2012 3:02:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What DK said. 22% of all Canada's taxes go to Healthcare for this reason. I think SOcialist healthcare needs lots of work before it is successful..
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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4/14/2012 3:24:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 3:02:55 PM, Viper-King wrote:
What DK said. 22% of all Canada's taxes go to Healthcare for this reason. I think SOcialist healthcare needs lots of work before it is successful..

A large portion of taxes will inherently go to the socialist healthcare system because it requires funding. The money to provide the socialist healthcare to the citizens has to come out of somewhere, and socialist healthcare requires taxes to go to healthcare.
Nothing is free; the cash must be generated from somewhere to pay the doctors.

If you don't like this then you don't like socialist healthcare. What is happening in Canada is socialist healthcare (I know because I live there). Not to mention that some things are not covered such as dental health so to cover that even more taxes would be required.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/14/2012 4:57:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 2:26:12 AM, imabench wrote:
At 4/14/2012 1:53:48 AM, darkkermit wrote:
There ain't no such thing as free healthcare. It's either paid directly or through taxes.

At least SOMEONE gets it

+100
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/14/2012 4:59:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 2:43:12 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 1:08:32 PM, Yarely wrote:
At 4/14/2012 12:34:55 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 12:56:49 AM, Yarely wrote:
What would you prefer, free healthcare in Canada that you would have to wait months for access, or extremely expensive US healthcare that you wouldn't have to wait so long for?

There is no such thing as free healthcare

I am perfectly aware of that
It is just what you call it when you pay for it through taxes

I know "free" healthcare is not exactly "free"

No it's called nationalized healthcare. The term "free healthcare" is only used when someone wishes to intentionally mislead people.

Yes. Call it Single-Payer, Socialized Medicine, whatever it is please. The way you frame is intentionally misleads.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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4/14/2012 5:03:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm for a total revamping of the current healthcare system, but by no means does it need to be as dramatic as single payer or any other government monopoly.

There are quasi-free market models that would make healthcare much more efficient in general with entirely sacrificing entitlement programs.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/14/2012 5:16:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 5:03:37 PM, Wnope wrote:
I'm for a total revamping of the current healthcare system, but by no means does it need to be as dramatic as single payer or any other government monopoly.

There are quasi-free market models that would make healthcare much more efficient in general with entirely sacrificing entitlement programs.

That is true
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Yarely
Posts: 329
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4/14/2012 8:44:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 4:59:20 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/14/2012 2:43:12 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 1:08:32 PM, Yarely wrote:
At 4/14/2012 12:34:55 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 12:56:49 AM, Yarely wrote:
What would you prefer, free healthcare in Canada that you would have to wait months for access, or extremely expensive US healthcare that you wouldn't have to wait so long for?

There is no such thing as free healthcare

I am perfectly aware of that
It is just what you call it when you pay for it through taxes

I know "free" healthcare is not exactly "free"

No it's called nationalized healthcare. The term "free healthcare" is only used when someone wishes to intentionally mislead people.

Yes. Call it Single-Payer, Socialized Medicine, whatever it is please. The way you frame is intentionally misleads.

I didn't "intentionally" mislead anyone
It wasn't deliberate
"Anarchism stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion and liberation of the human body from the coercion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government. It stands for a social order based on the free grouping of individuals""
-Emma Goldman
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/14/2012 8:46:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 8:44:25 PM, Yarely wrote:
At 4/14/2012 4:59:20 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/14/2012 2:43:12 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 1:08:32 PM, Yarely wrote:
At 4/14/2012 12:34:55 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 12:56:49 AM, Yarely wrote:
What would you prefer, free healthcare in Canada that you would have to wait months for access, or extremely expensive US healthcare that you wouldn't have to wait so long for?

There is no such thing as free healthcare

I am perfectly aware of that
It is just what you call it when you pay for it through taxes

I know "free" healthcare is not exactly "free"

No it's called nationalized healthcare. The term "free healthcare" is only used when someone wishes to intentionally mislead people.

Yes. Call it Single-Payer, Socialized Medicine, whatever it is please. The way you frame is intentionally misleads.

I didn't "intentionally" mislead anyone
It wasn't deliberate

Do you support Single-Payer?
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Yarely
Posts: 329
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4/14/2012 8:49:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 8:46:00 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:44:25 PM, Yarely wrote:
At 4/14/2012 4:59:20 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/14/2012 2:43:12 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 1:08:32 PM, Yarely wrote:
At 4/14/2012 12:34:55 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 12:56:49 AM, Yarely wrote:
What would you prefer, free healthcare in Canada that you would have to wait months for access, or extremely expensive US healthcare that you wouldn't have to wait so long for?

There is no such thing as free healthcare

I am perfectly aware of that
It is just what you call it when you pay for it through taxes

I know "free" healthcare is not exactly "free"

No it's called nationalized healthcare. The term "free healthcare" is only used when someone wishes to intentionally mislead people.

Yes. Call it Single-Payer, Socialized Medicine, whatever it is please. The way you frame is intentionally misleads.

I didn't "intentionally" mislead anyone
It wasn't deliberate

Do you support Single-Payer?

I am undecided
That is why I made this forum
"Anarchism stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion and liberation of the human body from the coercion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government. It stands for a social order based on the free grouping of individuals""
-Emma Goldman
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/14/2012 8:50:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 8:49:14 PM, Yarely wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:46:00 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:44:25 PM, Yarely wrote:
At 4/14/2012 4:59:20 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/14/2012 2:43:12 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 1:08:32 PM, Yarely wrote:
At 4/14/2012 12:34:55 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 12:56:49 AM, Yarely wrote:
What would you prefer, free healthcare in Canada that you would have to wait months for access, or extremely expensive US healthcare that you wouldn't have to wait so long for?

There is no such thing as free healthcare

I am perfectly aware of that
It is just what you call it when you pay for it through taxes

I know "free" healthcare is not exactly "free"

No it's called nationalized healthcare. The term "free healthcare" is only used when someone wishes to intentionally mislead people.

Yes. Call it Single-Payer, Socialized Medicine, whatever it is please. The way you frame is intentionally misleads.

I didn't "intentionally" mislead anyone
It wasn't deliberate

Do you support Single-Payer?

I am undecided
That is why I made this forum

Okay, I'll enlighten you and others to the beauty of a Single-Payer health care system, I'll expand in a minute
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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4/14/2012 8:52:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 8:50:09 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:49:14 PM, Yarely wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:46:00 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:44:25 PM, Yarely wrote:
At 4/14/2012 4:59:20 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/14/2012 2:43:12 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 1:08:32 PM, Yarely wrote:
At 4/14/2012 12:34:55 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 12:56:49 AM, Yarely wrote:
What would you prefer, free healthcare in Canada that you would have to wait months for access, or extremely expensive US healthcare that you wouldn't have to wait so long for?

There is no such thing as free healthcare

I am perfectly aware of that
It is just what you call it when you pay for it through taxes

I know "free" healthcare is not exactly "free"

No it's called nationalized healthcare. The term "free healthcare" is only used when someone wishes to intentionally mislead people.

Yes. Call it Single-Payer, Socialized Medicine, whatever it is please. The way you frame is intentionally misleads.

I didn't "intentionally" mislead anyone
It wasn't deliberate

Do you support Single-Payer?

I am undecided
That is why I made this forum

Okay, I'll enlighten you and others to the beauty of a Single-Payer health care system, I'll expand in a minute

Yarely, brace yourself for some propagandized BS
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle