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johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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4/14/2012 3:08:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I always thought Obi-Wan made the statement in the sense of negotiation or diplomacy. While Jedi seeks compromise and are slow to violence, the Sith either get their way or use violence to get what they want. There is no room to make a deal or to negotiate a peace.

So no, Yoda is not a Sith.

And I realize that I put way too much thought into my response.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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4/14/2012 4:06:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 3:01:19 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
"Do or do not. There is no try"

"Only the Sith deal in absolutes"

So Yoda is a sith?

"Do or do not. There is no try" means the end result is what matters. It is not dealing in absolutes because, "try" is not a middle ground between "do" and "do not".
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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4/14/2012 4:06:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 4:06:02 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 3:01:19 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
"Do or do not. There is no try"

"Only the Sith deal in absolutes"

So Yoda is a sith?

"Do or do not. There is no try" means the end result is what matters. It is not dealing in absolutes because, "try" is not a middle ground between "do" and "do not".

He is certainly saying there is either A or not A. This is definitionally an absolute.
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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4/14/2012 4:18:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 4:06:59 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 4/14/2012 4:06:02 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 3:01:19 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
"Do or do not. There is no try"

"Only the Sith deal in absolutes"

So Yoda is a sith?

"Do or do not. There is no try" means the end result is what matters. It is not dealing in absolutes because, "try" is not a middle ground between "do" and "do not".

He is certainly saying there is either A or not A. This is definitionally an absolute.

Do is if he completed the task given
Don't is if he didn't try, or tried but failed, or tried but gave up.

In other words, he was saying he could complete his training, or he could give up, but just because he was trying, does not mean he will succeed.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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4/14/2012 4:22:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 4:18:30 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 4:06:59 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 4/14/2012 4:06:02 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 3:01:19 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
"Do or do not. There is no try"

"Only the Sith deal in absolutes"

So Yoda is a sith?

"Do or do not. There is no try" means the end result is what matters. It is not dealing in absolutes because, "try" is not a middle ground between "do" and "do not".

He is certainly saying there is either A or not A. This is definitionally an absolute.

Do is if he completed the task given
Don't is if he didn't try, or tried but failed, or tried but gave up.

In other words, he was saying he could complete his training, or he could give up, but just because he was trying, does not mean he will succeed.

Absolutes would be A or else B
Yoda was saying A or not A
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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4/14/2012 4:27:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 4:22:40 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 4:18:30 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 4:06:59 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 4/14/2012 4:06:02 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 3:01:19 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
"Do or do not. There is no try"

"Only the Sith deal in absolutes"

So Yoda is a sith?

"Do or do not. There is no try" means the end result is what matters. It is not dealing in absolutes because, "try" is not a middle ground between "do" and "do not".

He is certainly saying there is either A or not A. This is definitionally an absolute.

Do is if he completed the task given
Don't is if he didn't try, or tried but failed, or tried but gave up.

In other words, he was saying he could complete his training, or he could give up, but just because he was trying, does not mean he will succeed.


Absolutes would be A or else B
Yoda was saying A or not A

Actually just abiding to the law of non-contradiction is an absolute.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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4/14/2012 4:30:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 3:01:19 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
"Do or do not. There is no try"

"Only the Sith deal in absolutes"

So Yoda is a sith?

"Do or do not" is not an absolute. You still have two options.
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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4/14/2012 4:50:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 4:27:10 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 4/14/2012 4:22:40 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 4:18:30 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 4:06:59 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 4/14/2012 4:06:02 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 3:01:19 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
"Do or do not. There is no try"

"Only the Sith deal in absolutes"

So Yoda is a sith?

"Do or do not. There is no try" means the end result is what matters. It is not dealing in absolutes because, "try" is not a middle ground between "do" and "do not".

He is certainly saying there is either A or not A. This is definitionally an absolute.

Do is if he completed the task given
Don't is if he didn't try, or tried but failed, or tried but gave up.

In other words, he was saying he could complete his training, or he could give up, but just because he was trying, does not mean he will succeed.


Absolutes would be A or else B
Yoda was saying A or not A

Actually just abiding to the law of non-contradiction is an absolute.

"Only the Sith deal in absolutes" is in response to Anakin saying, "you are either with me, or you are my enemy"
Meaning you can't be neutral.

Anikin was thus saying you are either A or C, you can't be B

Yoda was saying you could A or not A (any other letter of the alphabet)
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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4/14/2012 5:14:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The contradiction is dependent on the definition of "absolute" used. On a very broad level, Obi-Wan's own statement ("only the sith deal in absolutes") could be subject to the same criticism.

"Do or do not. There is no try" is pretty interesting - he could be saying that mental processes are inscrutable and that the 'try' is to be identified with its resultant action (?) It's vaguely Wittgensteinian...