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Libertarianism: Mandatory Liability Car Ins.

GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/14/2012 7:05:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What is the opinion of Libertarians here about the government making car insurance required?

I assert that it is a fair law. Some might object and say that it's not Libertarian, but I don't view it a law restricting freedom and telling you what to do, but rather requiring that individuals are responsible and liable for their actions.

For example, if I'm riding around in a $100,000 Mercedies Benz and some idiot crashes into me, I expect that the person can and will pay me and it should be required by law that they pay me for the damage they caused which is their fault at my expense. I don't want poor people riding around recklessly and then can't pay for reparations when they crash me.

Thoughts?

.
.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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4/14/2012 7:08:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 7:05:01 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
What is the opinion of Libertarians here about the government making car insurance required?

I assert that it is a fair law. Some might object and say that it's not Libertarian, but I don't view it a law restricting freedom and telling you what to do, but rather requiring that individuals are responsible and liable for their actions.

For example, if I'm riding around in a $100,000 Mercedies Benz and some idiot crashes into me, I expect that the person can and will pay me and it should be required by law that they pay me for the damage they caused which is their fault at my expense. I don't want poor people riding around recklessly and then can't pay for reparations when they crash me.

Thoughts?





.
.

I don't think it's the government's place to tell someone how to spend their money.

In NH you are not required to buy car insurance.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Osiris
Posts: 265
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4/14/2012 8:38:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 7:08:44 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 7:05:01 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
What is the opinion of Libertarians here about the government making car insurance required?

I assert that it is a fair law. Some might object and say that it's not Libertarian, but I don't view it a law restricting freedom and telling you what to do, but rather requiring that individuals are responsible and liable for their actions.

For example, if I'm riding around in a $100,000 Mercedies Benz and some idiot crashes into me, I expect that the person can and will pay me and it should be required by law that they pay me for the damage they caused which is their fault at my expense. I don't want poor people riding around recklessly and then can't pay for reparations when they crash me.

Thoughts?





.
.

I don't think it's the government's place to tell someone how to spend their money.

In NH you are not required to buy car insurance.

So what happens when you get into an accident? How are you supposed to collect damages?
"Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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4/14/2012 8:48:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 8:38:30 PM, Osiris wrote:
At 4/14/2012 7:08:44 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 7:05:01 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
What is the opinion of Libertarians here about the government making car insurance required?

I assert that it is a fair law. Some might object and say that it's not Libertarian, but I don't view it a law restricting freedom and telling you what to do, but rather requiring that individuals are responsible and liable for their actions.

For example, if I'm riding around in a $100,000 Mercedies Benz and some idiot crashes into me, I expect that the person can and will pay me and it should be required by law that they pay me for the damage they caused which is their fault at my expense. I don't want poor people riding around recklessly and then can't pay for reparations when they crash me.

Thoughts?





.
.

I don't think it's the government's place to tell someone how to spend their money.

In NH you are not required to buy car insurance.

So what happens when you get into an accident? How are you supposed to collect damages?

I said you are not required to; I didn't say people are not allowed to.

If a car crash takes place, the person who is at fault is responsible for the damages.

On top of that the victim can collect on a claim from their insurance if they have insurance, in addition to the person who is at fault, covering the damages to the car. Also, anyone in the car can stake a claim from their insurance as well.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/14/2012 8:53:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 8:48:49 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:38:30 PM, Osiris wrote:

So what happens when you get into an accident? How are you supposed to collect damages?

I said you are not required to; I didn't say people are not allowed to.

If a car crash takes place, the person who is at fault is responsible for the damages.

On top of that the victim can collect on a claim from their insurance if they have insurance, in addition to the person who is at fault, covering the damages to the car. Also, anyone in the car can stake a claim from their insurance as well.

So a poor person does $50,000 to your car. They can't pay for it. Then what.

.
.
.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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4/14/2012 8:58:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 8:53:25 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:48:49 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:38:30 PM, Osiris wrote:

So what happens when you get into an accident? How are you supposed to collect damages?

I said you are not required to; I didn't say people are not allowed to.

If a car crash takes place, the person who is at fault is responsible for the damages.

On top of that the victim can collect on a claim from their insurance if they have insurance, in addition to the person who is at fault, covering the damages to the car. Also, anyone in the car can stake a claim from their insurance as well.

So a poor person does $50,000 to your car. They can't pay for it. Then what.


Than they take out a loan, or sell their trailer.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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4/14/2012 9:09:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 8:53:25 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:48:49 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:38:30 PM, Osiris wrote:

So what happens when you get into an accident? How are you supposed to collect damages?

I said you are not required to; I didn't say people are not allowed to.

If a car crash takes place, the person who is at fault is responsible for the damages.

On top of that the victim can collect on a claim from their insurance if they have insurance, in addition to the person who is at fault, covering the damages to the car. Also, anyone in the car can stake a claim from their insurance as well.

So a poor person does $50,000 to your car. They can't pay for it. Then what.

It's a person's responsibility to be alert and active when driving a car. The fact of the matter is that most accidents are caused because the person at fault was performing either a reckless task at the wheel or with the car. Logic figures that if one person caused damages, then they must pay for them. It's really simple. If they don't have enough money, they take out a loan or go bankrupt.

Insurance is just a safeguard against future risk. You are responsible if you don't buy insurance.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
LibertyCampbell
Posts: 288
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4/14/2012 11:30:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 7:05:01 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
What is the opinion of Libertarians here about the government making car insurance required?

I assert that it is a fair law. Some might object and say that it's not Libertarian, but I don't view it a law restricting freedom and telling you what to do, but rather requiring that individuals are responsible and liable for their actions.

For example, if I'm riding around in a $100,000 Mercedies Benz and some idiot crashes into me, I expect that the person can and will pay me and it should be required by law that they pay me for the damage they caused which is their fault at my expense. I don't want poor people riding around recklessly and then can't pay for reparations when they crash me.

Thoughts?





.
.

1. Get rid of public roads. (Namely, interstates)
2. Large influx of capital into train technologies and construction
3. Car sales decrease.
4. Everyone rides in trains, environment is saved.

For folks living in the country, Viva la urbanization!

And backroads should have a really low speedlimit anyways, so accidents should be rare.
"[Society] has no vested interest in continuing to exist." -RP
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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4/15/2012 12:15:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
A valuable point to make, Geo. However, I would say it is only Libertarian in the context that the point of Libertarianism is for everyone to be responsible for themselves. That is, in-fact, the point of Libertarianism for most Libertarians. Semantically though, the point of Libertarianism is simply liberty, even if that liberty gives people the freedom to avoid personal responsibility.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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4/15/2012 9:39:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 7:05:01 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
What is the opinion of Libertarians here about the government making car insurance required?

I assert that it is a fair law. Some might object and say that it's not Libertarian, but I don't view it a law restricting freedom and telling you what to do, but rather requiring that individuals are responsible and liable for their actions.:

I think most libertarians strongly object to things that inherently violate or attempt to usurp the Bill of Rights. A State can require things like this to ensure fair play. Of course, there are other requirements, like smog testing, which is a racket. There's no reason why a 2012 vehicle should ever fail an emissions test, and they know that. Yet, you're required to jump through their hoops regardless.

But, you know, the Mayor has a mortgage and a Lexus to make payments on, so.... At least with greedy corporations you have the choice to not purchase their products. But you can't opt out of the government.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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4/15/2012 10:14:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
OK, so someone has crashed into a $50,000 car. They can't pay the money from their own pocket. No bank will loan them money (which is likely in this economic climate regardless of the cash debt they have). Then what? Either you're out of pocket 50k because someone else is an idiot or the government has to pay you money.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

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Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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4/15/2012 2:48:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 7:05:01 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
What is the opinion of Libertarians here about the government making car insurance required?
It doesn't, you're free to drive on private roads without it if the road owner consents.

The state does not mandate car insurance in its role as a state, its incidental that its road-owning branch does so.

(Of course, the road-owning branch is not legitimately funded, but this can be said of most state actions).
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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4/15/2012 3:09:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/15/2012 10:14:45 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
OK, so someone has crashed into a $50,000 car. They can't pay the money from their own pocket. No bank will loan them money (which is likely in this economic climate regardless of the cash debt they have). Then what? Either you're out of pocket 50k because someone else is an idiot or the government has to pay you money.:

There is such a thing as debtors prison, but it's seldom used.

Let me spitball another idea your way. Let's say a homeless man ambushes you with a pipe, nearly killing you. He steals your credit card and maxes out the limit on it. The police catch him and the courts convict him. You can legally sue him for punitive damages and for the amount he stole. The court awards you full compensation for the loss of money and for the damages he caused you. He's in jail, great, but how are you going to recover the funds he stole from you [and spent already] and recoup the cost of the hosiptal bill when he's flat broke?
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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4/15/2012 3:12:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/14/2012 8:58:38 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:53:25 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:48:49 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:38:30 PM, Osiris wrote:

So what happens when you get into an accident? How are you supposed to collect damages?

I said you are not required to; I didn't say people are not allowed to.

If a car crash takes place, the person who is at fault is responsible for the damages.

On top of that the victim can collect on a claim from their insurance if they have insurance, in addition to the person who is at fault, covering the damages to the car. Also, anyone in the car can stake a claim from their insurance as well.

So a poor person does $50,000 to your car. They can't pay for it. Then what.


Than they take out a loan, or sell their trailer.

then an amazing thing happens and you become bankrupt.
Open borders debate:
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DanT
Posts: 5,693
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4/15/2012 3:16:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/15/2012 3:12:05 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:58:38 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:53:25 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:48:49 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:38:30 PM, Osiris wrote:

So what happens when you get into an accident? How are you supposed to collect damages?

I said you are not required to; I didn't say people are not allowed to.

If a car crash takes place, the person who is at fault is responsible for the damages.

On top of that the victim can collect on a claim from their insurance if they have insurance, in addition to the person who is at fault, covering the damages to the car. Also, anyone in the car can stake a claim from their insurance as well.

So a poor person does $50,000 to your car. They can't pay for it. Then what.


Than they take out a loan, or sell their trailer.

then an amazing thing happens and you become bankrupt.

more incentive to drive safely
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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4/15/2012 3:16:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/15/2012 3:16:06 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/15/2012 3:12:05 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:58:38 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:53:25 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:48:49 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:38:30 PM, Osiris wrote:

So what happens when you get into an accident? How are you supposed to collect damages?

I said you are not required to; I didn't say people are not allowed to.

If a car crash takes place, the person who is at fault is responsible for the damages.

On top of that the victim can collect on a claim from their insurance if they have insurance, in addition to the person who is at fault, covering the damages to the car. Also, anyone in the car can stake a claim from their insurance as well.

So a poor person does $50,000 to your car. They can't pay for it. Then what.


Than they take out a loan, or sell their trailer.

then an amazing thing happens and you become bankrupt.

more incentive to drive safely

or buy insurance willingly
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/15/2012 4:26:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/15/2012 3:09:10 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 4/15/2012 10:14:45 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
OK, so someone has crashed into a $50,000 car. They can't pay the money from their own pocket. No bank will loan them money (which is likely in this economic climate regardless of the cash debt they have). Then what? Either you're out of pocket 50k because someone else is an idiot or the government has to pay you money.:

There is such a thing as debtors prison, but it's seldom used.

Let me spitball another idea your way. Let's say a homeless man ambushes you with a pipe, nearly killing you. He steals your credit card and maxes out the limit on it. The police catch him and the courts convict him. You can legally sue him for punitive damages and for the amount he stole. The court awards you full compensation for the loss of money and for the damages he caused you. He's in jail, great, but how are you going to recover the funds he stole from you [and spent already] and recoup the cost of the hosiptal bill when he's flat broke?

That's a different category. Thousands of car accidents happen daily. They are 3,000 lb death machines going 70 mph surrounded by 1 million other 3,000 lb death machines going 70 mph in which a car accident is prone to happen within the blink of an eye, a split second, the slight pressing or releasing of the pedal.

I am not just one finger-twitch away from getting ambushed by a bum with a bat. In fact, that will likely never happen. Me getting in an accident, I believe statistics show that every single person will get into an accident once every 7 years.

Yes, in theory, everyone should have insurance for everything that can be thrown at them in life like bar fight damages, baseball hitting you in the face, but that's just not practical and the probability of those things is very low. Besides, you can just sue them.

I think the way that car insurance works now works perfectly fine.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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4/15/2012 4:46:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Let me spitball another idea your way. Let's say a homeless man ambushes you with a pipe, nearly killing you. He steals your credit card and maxes out the limit on it. The police catch him and the courts convict him. You can legally sue him for punitive damages and for the amount he stole. The court awards you full compensation for the loss of money and for the damages he caused you. He's in jail, great, but how are you going to recover the funds he stole from you [and spent already] and recoup the cost of the hosiptal bill when he's flat broke?

That's a different category.:

The fundamental hasn't changed... How do you get poor people to pay when they can't pay?

I am not just one finger-twitch away from getting ambushed by a bum with a bat. In fact, that will likely never happen. Me getting in an accident, I believe statistics show that every single person will get into an accident once every 7 years.:

What does the prevelance have to do with the fundamental idea?

Yes, in theory, everyone should have insurance for everything that can be thrown at them in life like bar fight damages, baseball hitting you in the face, but that's just not practical and the probability of those things is very low. Besides, you can just sue them.:

But that's my point. What do you do if you can't sue them? You can sue and win, but if they don't have the funds to pay for it, what is it we can do?

I think the way that car insurance works now works perfectly fine.:

It's perfectly legal so long as states individually mandate it. Then of ocurse there are those people who drive uninsured, regardless of the law. The law should probably more strict with deadbeats who essentially walk away.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
heart_of_the_matter
Posts: 408
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4/18/2012 11:04:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/15/2012 10:14:45 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
OK, so someone has crashed into a $50,000 car. They can't pay the money from their own pocket. No bank will loan them money (which is likely in this economic climate regardless of the cash debt they have). Then what? Either you're out of pocket 50k because someone else is an idiot or the government has to pay you money.

Could not the person who owns the $50,000 car also afford "uninsured motorist" insurance?

Why not insure our own stuff (if a person wants it insured)...for example if a person has an expensive (insert whatever item here -EXCEPT for a car)...then they can also take out special insurance on that item...and if it is damaged through no fault of their own, they could collect. Ex: renters insurance...
CrazyPerson
Posts: 1,114
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4/18/2012 11:14:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/15/2012 3:16:54 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/15/2012 3:16:06 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/15/2012 3:12:05 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:58:38 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:53:25 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:48:49 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:38:30 PM, Osiris wrote:

So what happens when you get into an accident? How are you supposed to collect damages?

I said you are not required to; I didn't say people are not allowed to.

If a car crash takes place, the person who is at fault is responsible for the damages.

On top of that the victim can collect on a claim from their insurance if they have insurance, in addition to the person who is at fault, covering the damages to the car. Also, anyone in the car can stake a claim from their insurance as well.

So a poor person does $50,000 to your car. They can't pay for it. Then what.


Than they take out a loan, or sell their trailer.

then an amazing thing happens and you become bankrupt.

more incentive to drive safely

or buy insurance willingly

I don't think the incentive outweighs the risk here - specifically due to the fact that for most people without insurance there is no repercussion to taking out loans and going bankrupt because they never intend to pay anything back.
But we try to pretend, you see, that the external world exists altogether independently of us.
- - - Watts
The moralist is the person who tells people that they ought to be unselfish, when they still feel like egos, and his efforts are always and invariably futile.
- - - Watts
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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4/18/2012 11:20:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/18/2012 11:14:33 PM, CrazyPerson wrote:
At 4/15/2012 3:16:54 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/15/2012 3:16:06 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/15/2012 3:12:05 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:58:38 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:53:25 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:48:49 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/14/2012 8:38:30 PM, Osiris wrote:

So what happens when you get into an accident? How are you supposed to collect damages?

I said you are not required to; I didn't say people are not allowed to.

If a car crash takes place, the person who is at fault is responsible for the damages.

On top of that the victim can collect on a claim from their insurance if they have insurance, in addition to the person who is at fault, covering the damages to the car. Also, anyone in the car can stake a claim from their insurance as well.

So a poor person does $50,000 to your car. They can't pay for it. Then what.


Than they take out a loan, or sell their trailer.

then an amazing thing happens and you become bankrupt.

more incentive to drive safely

or buy insurance willingly

I don't think the incentive outweighs the risk here - specifically due to the fact that for most people without insurance there is no repercussion to taking out loans and going bankrupt because they never intend to pay anything back.

I was being a bit sarcastic when I said that bankruptcy is an amazing thing. You really don't want to go bankrupt and it isn't an amazing thing.
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