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Role of the State

Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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4/15/2012 2:35:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What would people say the role of the state is?
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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4/15/2012 2:51:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It has no role. It is an aggressive land monopoly. Heh. OK, lets answer that in the way you probably wanted it to be answered. If there must be a state:
It must defend negative liberties and prevent aggression. It must not infringe upon the liberties of others.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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4/15/2012 2:51:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
A state's legitimate existence is based on the fact that legal decisions are rivalrous-- jurisdictional property being like any other form of property.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/15/2012 4:11:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/15/2012 2:35:01 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
What would people say the role of the state is?

- National Security (military)
- Equal Access to Opportunity (Job training programs)
- Facilitating Economic Development (trade agreements)
- Oversight of Financial Markets and Institutions (banks have honest and ethical business practices)
- Advancement of Public Interest that market cannot fix (clean air)
- Providing Investment when projects are too demanding for market (national electric grid)
- Assisting those unable to fully support themselves (Negative Income Tax)
- Revenue Collection Service (IRS - to fund all the other functions)

For all of these, we need Smart Government; which is a government strategy in which the public and private sectors work together to create prosperity.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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4/15/2012 4:30:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
That state was originally nothing more than a means of siphoning of the funds of the destitute to warlords. The state ought not exist because it is based in illegitimacy.
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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4/15/2012 4:31:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/15/2012 2:35:01 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
What would people say the role of the state is?

Every man has a right to life, a right to liberty, and a right to keep and acquire property.

Governments are instituted amongst men, in order to protect these rights. As a part of the social contract between the people and the government, the people forfeit a portion of their rights in order to defend their rights. For example taxes to provide for a police force, and military who are charged with defending the life, liberty and property of the people. If someone steals the property of someone else, or kidnaps someone (depriving them of liberty) and are convicted by due process,than they may be jailed (deprived of liberty). If someone kills someone else, and are convicted of murder, they may be executed (deprived of life). If someone vandalizes someone's property, they may be fined (deprived of liberty).

The government's sole role is to protect the life, liberty, and property of the people. The more powerful the government becomes, the more it infringes on those rights. The government may only infringe on these rights in order to further protect these rights, and only if the protection outweighs the infringement.

The government does not give life, liberty, and property; the government is only charged with protecting life, liberty, and property.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
CrazyPerson
Posts: 1,114
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4/15/2012 4:36:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I believe the state should highlight or amend certain aspects of the federal law on a smaller level to suit the general desires of its population. State should override federal law to an extent so that minorities can all have their places (specific areas) within the federal bubble, and the ability to move freely throughout the country. For instance, if you we're a gay liberal living in Florida, you might want to move to NY where albeit the federal government remains static, differentiation in state laws provide comfort to specific individuals.
But we try to pretend, you see, that the external world exists altogether independently of us.
- - - Watts
The moralist is the person who tells people that they ought to be unselfish, when they still feel like egos, and his efforts are always and invariably futile.
- - - Watts
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/15/2012 4:41:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
According to Aristotle:

"Finally, "the complete community, formed from several villages, is a city-state, which at once attains the limit of self-sufficiency, roughly speaking. It comes to be for the sake of life, and exists for the sake of the good life".

Aristotle defends three claims about nature and the city-state: First, the city-state exists by nature, because it comes to be out of the more primitive natural associations and it serves as their end, because it alone attains self-sufficiency. Second, human beings are by nature political animals, because nature, which does nothing in vain, has equipped them with speech, which enables them to communicate moral concepts such as justice which are formative of the household and city-state. Third, the city-state is naturally prior to the individuals, because individuals cannot perform their natural functions apart from the city-state, since they are not self-sufficient. These three claims are conjoined, however, with a fourth: the city-state is a creation of human intelligence. "Therefore, everyone naturally has the impulse for such a [political] community, but the person who first established [it] is the cause of very great benefits." This great benefactor is evidently the lawgiver (nomothetês), for the legal system of the city-state makes human beings just and virtuous and lifts them from the savagery and bestiality in which they would otherwise languish."

http://plato.stanford.edu...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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4/15/2012 10:01:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think as far as looking at the role of the state goes, you have to start from the bottom and work your way up. Take a look at history. "Civilization" originally sprang up only because a bunch of people happened to be in the same place for the same reason - convenience. People are self-sustaining, and can live in small groups if necessary. Is that sort of life comfortable or fun? No. So really, we form groups for convenience, and so we form states. As society grows on a larger scale, we have more options. But with that we need more order IF we want a specific outcome, and thus we form large-scale societal groups such as states. From there, it becomes debatable based on the formation of that said group. The role of any given social organization is based on that organization itself, from that point.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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4/15/2012 10:10:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Here's my list:

-Prevention of negative externalities (ex: air pollution, and disease)
-To facilitate commerce
-To provide safety nets
-to reduce asymmetric information in the marketplace
-to reduce the volatility of inflation/deflation
-to prevent recessions. this includes regulation of the banking industry
-to provide a common defense against other nations
-to prevent unproductive immigrants from crossing the border.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/15/2012 10:12:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/15/2012 10:10:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Here's my list:

-Prevention of negative externalities (ex: air pollution, and disease)
-To facilitate commerce
-To provide safety nets
-to reduce asymmetric information in the marketplace
-to reduce the volatility of inflation/deflation
-to prevent recessions. this includes regulation of the banking industry
-to provide a common defense against other nations
-to prevent unproductive immigrants from crossing the border.

I actually mostly agree with this list.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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4/16/2012 2:07:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
To support privilege. Whether it be for "Royalty", "Communists"or "Capitalists", it has, at every point in human history, been there to support privilege.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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4/16/2012 9:02:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/15/2012 10:10:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Here's my list:

-Prevention of negative externalities (ex: air pollution, and disease)
-To facilitate commerce
-To provide safety nets
-to reduce asymmetric information in the marketplace
-to reduce the volatility of inflation/deflation
-to prevent recessions. this includes regulation of the banking industry
-to provide a common defense against other nations
-to prevent unproductive immigrants from crossing the border.

Agreed.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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4/16/2012 9:06:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I find many of these reasons absurd. To state that these are the reasons for a nation to exist simply is looking in the wrong direction. No one says let's make a state for X, X, and X in all cases. Each state usually has some agreement that explain the reasons for that formation. It's an organized function dependent on each case, and not in a general sense. If we're talking in a general sense, states merely exist to organize a group of people based on different criteria for convenience. That's as simple as it gets. Anything else cannot be stated as specific reasons for any state for form - but for specific cases.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/16/2012 12:16:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 9:02:44 AM, Reasoning wrote:
At 4/15/2012 10:10:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Here's my list:

-Prevention of negative externalities (ex: air pollution, and disease)
-To facilitate commerce
-To provide safety nets
-to reduce asymmetric information in the marketplace
-to reduce the volatility of inflation/deflation
-to prevent recessions. this includes regulation of the banking industry
-to provide a common defense against other nations
-to prevent unproductive immigrants from crossing the border.

Agreed.

Really? Since when? I thought youre Conservative.

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"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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4/16/2012 12:20:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 12:16:25 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/16/2012 9:02:44 AM, Reasoning wrote:
At 4/15/2012 10:10:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Here's my list:

-Prevention of negative externalities (ex: air pollution, and disease)
-To facilitate commerce
-To provide safety nets
-to reduce asymmetric information in the marketplace
-to reduce the volatility of inflation/deflation
-to prevent recessions. this includes regulation of the banking industry
-to provide a common defense against other nations
-to prevent unproductive immigrants from crossing the border.

Agreed.

Really? Since when? I thought youre Conservative.






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I consider myself libertarian-moderate. Reasoning is a conservative as well and agrees with my points
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/16/2012 12:25:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 12:20:25 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 4/16/2012 12:16:25 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/16/2012 9:02:44 AM, Reasoning wrote:
At 4/15/2012 10:10:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Here's my list:

-Prevention of negative externalities (ex: air pollution, and disease)
-To facilitate commerce
-To provide safety nets
-to reduce asymmetric information in the marketplace
-to reduce the volatility of inflation/deflation
-to prevent recessions. this includes regulation of the banking industry
-to provide a common defense against other nations
-to prevent unproductive immigrants from crossing the border.

Agreed.

Really? Since when? I thought youre Conservative.

I consider myself libertarian-moderate. Reasoning is a conservative as well and agrees with my points

Yea I know where you stand, but I don't get how Reasoning can say "Agreed" to your post.

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"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat