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Why the South?

Wnope
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4/16/2012 2:44:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This may come off as condescending, but honestly I'm just curious and don't know the answer.

Several people will say that, when the Confederate flag is set up, it represents pride for the old south.

What is it that the Confederate flag represents that is so praiseworthy?

It's claimed there's a reason to celebrate it aside from connections to slavery, but what exactly is it celebrating?

Did southerners have some specific culture? Some history (before the civil war) that distinguished it as better than its northern counterpart?
imabench
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4/16/2012 2:46:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 2:44:47 PM, Wnope wrote:
This may come off as condescending, but honestly I'm just curious and don't know the answer.

Several people will say that, when the Confederate flag is set up, it represents pride for the old south.

What is it that the Confederate flag represents that is so praiseworthy?

It's claimed there's a reason to celebrate it aside from connections to slavery, but what exactly is it celebrating?

Did southerners have some specific culture? Some history (before the civil war) that distinguished it as better than its northern counterpart?

the confederate flag is a redneck symbol for demonstrating disapproval with the government or "the man" in general, and thats it
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000ike
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4/16/2012 2:57:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 2:44:47 PM, Wnope wrote:
This may come off as condescending, but honestly I'm just curious and don't know the answer.

Several people will say that, when the Confederate flag is set up, it represents pride for the old south.

What is it that the Confederate flag represents that is so praiseworthy?

It's claimed there's a reason to celebrate it aside from connections to slavery, but what exactly is it celebrating?

Did southerners have some specific culture? Some history (before the civil war) that distinguished it as better than its northern counterpart?

I suspect that it's an inherited pride - started by Confederates who wanted, if anything, to perpetuate the bitterness and vengeance they held for future generations. There isn't much to be proud of about a section that tried to destroy the United States of America over their supposed right to lynch and enslave human beings. That flag should be burned to smithereens, not hung above America's.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Reasoning
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4/16/2012 3:32:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Listen to this song. If you can't feel it, then I don't think there's any hope for you.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Wnope
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4/16/2012 3:38:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 3:32:32 PM, Reasoning wrote:
Listen to this song. If you can't feel it, then I don't think there's any hope for you.

I get that southerners ARE proud of the south. I'm interested WHY. This song is someone talking about being proud of being a southerner.

Is it JUST that they fought the north?
Reasoning
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4/16/2012 3:44:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 3:38:48 PM, Wnope wrote:
I get that southerners ARE proud of the south. I'm interested WHY. This song is someone talking about being proud of being a southerner.

Is it JUST that they fought the north?

It's the distinct Southern culture. Its history, its temperament. All of which are always under attack by smug Northern liberals who want to turn make the South just like them.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Wnope
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4/16/2012 3:47:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 3:44:11 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 4/16/2012 3:38:48 PM, Wnope wrote:
I get that southerners ARE proud of the south. I'm interested WHY. This song is someone talking about being proud of being a southerner.

Is it JUST that they fought the north?

It's the distinct Southern culture. Its history, its temperament. All of which are always under attack by smug Northern liberals who want to turn make the South just like them.

Right, but what IS that culture?

What is it the southerners were so proud of about their history?

Being in tune with nature? Farming instead of city life?
Reasoning
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4/16/2012 3:51:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 3:47:11 PM, Wnope wrote:
Right, but what IS that culture?

What is it the southerners were so proud of about their history?

Being in tune with nature? Farming instead of city life?

How do you expect to understand it without experiencing it? It's a temperament and a culture. Do you think you can understand Spanish culture without living in Spain for a while?
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
lewis20
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4/16/2012 3:54:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 2:57:21 PM, 000ike wrote:
I suspect that it's an inherited pride - started by Confederates who wanted, if anything, to perpetuate the bitterness and vengeance they held for future generations. There isn't much to be proud of about a section that tried to destroy the United States of America over their supposed right to lynch and enslave human beings.

You are exactly right, the issue is entirely one sided. Those who fly confederate flags and who wanted to succeed way back when are simply racist rednecks who want slavery. There is absolutely nothing further to try to understand. The issue is black and white, good vs evil. Never question this line of logic.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
thett3
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4/16/2012 4:04:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It's meant to symbolize the cultural identity of the south, and to remind the people to never forget our history. I just wish they had chosen a less racially charged symbol.
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000ike
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4/16/2012 4:07:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 3:54:12 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/16/2012 2:57:21 PM, 000ike wrote:
I suspect that it's an inherited pride - started by Confederates who wanted, if anything, to perpetuate the bitterness and vengeance they held for future generations. There isn't much to be proud of about a section that tried to destroy the United States of America over their supposed right to lynch and enslave human beings.

You are exactly right, the issue is entirely one sided. Those who fly confederate flags and who wanted to succeed way back when are simply racist rednecks who want slavery. There is absolutely nothing further to try to understand. The issue is black and white, good vs evil. Never question this line of logic.

No sarcasm needed. What deep reasoning did they have?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Wnope
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4/16/2012 4:30:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 4:04:06 PM, thett3 wrote:
It's meant to symbolize the cultural identity of the south, and to remind the people to never forget our history. I just wish they had chosen a less racially charged symbol.

This gets back to the question I keep asking.

WHAT cultural identity? What is it that the south had that was so different and praiseworthy?

I know they're proud of SOMETHING and it has to do with the south's culture, but that's about as far as I've gotten.
lewis20
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4/16/2012 4:34:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 4:07:11 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/16/2012 3:54:12 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/16/2012 2:57:21 PM, 000ike wrote:
I suspect that it's an inherited pride - started by Confederates who wanted, if anything, to perpetuate the bitterness and vengeance they held for future generations. There isn't much to be proud of about a section that tried to destroy the United States of America over their supposed right to lynch and enslave human beings.

You are exactly right, the issue is entirely one sided. Those who fly confederate flags and who wanted to succeed way back when are simply racist rednecks who want slavery. There is absolutely nothing further to try to understand. The issue is black and white, good vs evil. Never question this line of logic.

No sarcasm needed. What deep reasoning did they have?

It wasn't slavery.
But like I've said before when I was younger I also never understood the confederate flag and thought exactly the same way. They lost, they were on the wrong side, they started it and they should get over it. I've learned, however, that almost always there are two legitimate sides to an argument and defending one side just because that's the side you know isn't really fair.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
thett3
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4/16/2012 4:35:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 4:30:04 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 4/16/2012 4:04:06 PM, thett3 wrote:
It's meant to symbolize the cultural identity of the south, and to remind the people to never forget our history. I just wish they had chosen a less racially charged symbol.

This gets back to the question I keep asking.

WHAT cultural identity? What is it that the south had that was so different and praiseworthy?

I know they're proud of SOMETHING and it has to do with the south's culture, but that's about as far as I've gotten.

What, you have a problem with a group of people celebrating their culture? What makes you presume that southerners have to think their culture is amazing and perfect and above everyone else in order to appreciate it? I really don't get the point you're trying to make, although I feel that if your people were murdered and annually have their property seized from a government that they didn't choose to be a part of run by men who constantly demonize and ridicule your region and culture, you would be pretty pissed off too and hold on to whatever scrap of identity they could not destroy.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
OberHerr
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4/16/2012 4:38:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Wnope, I think your being a bit stingy about this.
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DanT
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4/16/2012 4:53:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 2:44:47 PM, Wnope wrote:
This may come off as condescending, but honestly I'm just curious and don't know the answer.

Several people will say that, when the Confederate flag is set up, it represents pride for the old south.

The confederate flag represents the same thing as the New England flag.
http://www.flickr.com...
The only difference is that it's southern.

What is it that the Confederate flag represents that is so praiseworthy?

It represents a Nation, just as he New England flag represents a Nation, or how State flags represent a nation, or how the pan-African flag represents a nation.

It's claimed there's a reason to celebrate it aside from connections to slavery, but what exactly is it celebrating?

Southern heritage.

Did southerners have some specific culture?
Yes, the southern culture was much different than the rest of the country, especial during an prior to the civil war.

The south were ideologically, religiously, culturally different than the North, and lived much differently. Much of the southern culture has been preserved over the centuries, such as hunting gaters, and many southerners still feel a bond with their ancestors.

Some history (before the civil war) that distinguished it as better than its northern counterpart?

Not better, different.

I'm a yankee so I would never wear a confederate flag, however I grew up in Florida despite being born in New Jersey, so I know the cultural significance.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
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4/16/2012 4:54:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 4:34:15 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/16/2012 4:07:11 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/16/2012 3:54:12 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/16/2012 2:57:21 PM, 000ike wrote:
I suspect that it's an inherited pride - started by Confederates who wanted, if anything, to perpetuate the bitterness and vengeance they held for future generations. There isn't much to be proud of about a section that tried to destroy the United States of America over their supposed right to lynch and enslave human beings.

You are exactly right, the issue is entirely one sided. Those who fly confederate flags and who wanted to succeed way back when are simply racist rednecks who want slavery. There is absolutely nothing further to try to understand. The issue is black and white, good vs evil. Never question this line of logic.

No sarcasm needed. What deep reasoning did they have?

It wasn't slavery.
But like I've said before when I was younger I also never understood the confederate flag and thought exactly the same way. They lost, they were on the wrong side, they started it and they should get over it. I've learned, however, that almost always there are two legitimate sides to an argument and defending one side just because that's the side you know isn't really fair.

This
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
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4/16/2012 4:56:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 4:38:44 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Wnope, I think your being a bit stingy about this.

I wouldn't call it stingy, I would call it bigoted.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Apollo.11
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4/16/2012 4:59:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 3:44:11 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 4/16/2012 3:38:48 PM, Wnope wrote:
I get that southerners ARE proud of the south. I'm interested WHY. This song is someone talking about being proud of being a southerner.

Is it JUST that they fought the north?

It's the distinct Southern culture. Its history, its temperament. All of which are always under attack by smug Northern liberals who want to turn make the South just like them.

Hey, I suggest you listen to a song by the same "singer" you posted.

It's called "Quit Your Bitchin'"

And another of their hits is also relevant: "Redneck Piece Of White Trash"
Sapere Aude!
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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4/16/2012 4:59:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 4:34:15 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/16/2012 4:07:11 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/16/2012 3:54:12 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/16/2012 2:57:21 PM, 000ike wrote:
I suspect that it's an inherited pride - started by Confederates who wanted, if anything, to perpetuate the bitterness and vengeance they held for future generations. There isn't much to be proud of about a section that tried to destroy the United States of America over their supposed right to lynch and enslave human beings.

You are exactly right, the issue is entirely one sided. Those who fly confederate flags and who wanted to succeed way back when are simply racist rednecks who want slavery. There is absolutely nothing further to try to understand. The issue is black and white, good vs evil. Never question this line of logic.

No sarcasm needed. What deep reasoning did they have?

It wasn't slavery.
But like I've said before when I was younger I also never understood the confederate flag and thought exactly the same way. They lost, they were on the wrong side, they started it and they should get over it. I've learned, however, that almost always there are two legitimate sides to an argument and defending one side just because that's the side you know isn't really fair.

I was just thinking that whatever reasoning they had would kind of be irrelevant. At most it would prove that they aren't "evil people", but if slavery was a large motivation, how do you, or, what can you say that reconciles that?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
lewis20
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4/16/2012 5:05:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 4:59:19 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/16/2012 4:34:15 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/16/2012 4:07:11 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/16/2012 3:54:12 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/16/2012 2:57:21 PM, 000ike wrote:
I suspect that it's an inherited pride - started by Confederates who wanted, if anything, to perpetuate the bitterness and vengeance they held for future generations. There isn't much to be proud of about a section that tried to destroy the United States of America over their supposed right to lynch and enslave human beings.

You are exactly right, the issue is entirely one sided. Those who fly confederate flags and who wanted to succeed way back when are simply racist rednecks who want slavery. There is absolutely nothing further to try to understand. The issue is black and white, good vs evil. Never question this line of logic.

No sarcasm needed. What deep reasoning did they have?

It wasn't slavery.
But like I've said before when I was younger I also never understood the confederate flag and thought exactly the same way. They lost, they were on the wrong side, they started it and they should get over it. I've learned, however, that almost always there are two legitimate sides to an argument and defending one side just because that's the side you know isn't really fair.

I was just thinking that whatever reasoning they had would kind of be irrelevant. At most it would prove that they aren't "evil people", but if slavery was a large motivation, how do you, or, what can you say that reconciles that?

Slavery was not the motivation though, they opposed what they believed was a tyrannical north and acted accordingly. If the civil war was fought because the north wanted to end slavery everywhere, there might be a bit more merit to blindly supporting their version of history. However that wasn't the case, I'm sure you've heard it before but Lincoln would have just as well let slavery continue if that would have saved the union.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Wnope
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4/17/2012 3:15:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 4:53:50 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/16/2012 2:44:47 PM, Wnope wrote:
This may come off as condescending, but honestly I'm just curious and don't know the answer.

Several people will say that, when the Confederate flag is set up, it represents pride for the old south.

The confederate flag represents the same thing as the New England flag.
http://www.flickr.com...
The only difference is that it's southern.

What is it that the Confederate flag represents that is so praiseworthy?

It represents a Nation, just as he New England flag represents a Nation, or how State flags represent a nation, or how the pan-African flag represents a nation.

It's claimed there's a reason to celebrate it aside from connections to slavery, but what exactly is it celebrating?

Southern heritage.

Did southerners have some specific culture?
Yes, the southern culture was much different than the rest of the country, especial during an prior to the civil war.

The south were ideologically, religiously, culturally different than the North, and lived much differently. Much of the southern culture has been preserved over the centuries, such as hunting gaters, and many southerners still feel a bond with their ancestors.

Some history (before the civil war) that distinguished it as better than its northern counterpart?

Not better, different.

I'm a yankee so I would never wear a confederate flag, however I grew up in Florida despite being born in New Jersey, so I know the cultural significance.

I'd be just as curious why someone might be wearing or parading around a New England Flag, what they are celebrating about that north apart from the United States.

If you live in New England, you could fly the New England Flag, but you might also just fly the American flag or the state flag.

The Confederate flag was only around during, well, the Confederacy. The flag represents that particular period of time only in the same way the New England flag has no real meaning outside of the civil war (that I know of).

Why not fly state flags? Why specifically is it the flag of the people who seceded from the United States that is used to represent "Southerners?" The "South," presumably, existed before before the Confederacy was ever conceived.

Is there just no better alternative to signify the south as something distinct from the north?
Wnope
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4/17/2012 3:16:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 4:56:03 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/16/2012 4:38:44 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Wnope, I think your being a bit stingy about this.

I wouldn't call it stingy, I would call it bigoted.

I'd be just as (if not more) interested in why someone took pride in a New England Flag.
DanT
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4/17/2012 8:39:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 3:16:11 AM, Wnope wrote:
At 4/16/2012 4:56:03 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/16/2012 4:38:44 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Wnope, I think your being a bit stingy about this.

I wouldn't call it stingy, I would call it bigoted.

I'd be just as (if not more) interested in why someone took pride in a New England Flag.

Same reason African-Americans take pride in the Pan-african flag. It is a symbol of their cultural heritage. It's also the same reason, why people take pride in their state flag, regardless of the state they are in. It represents their geographical-cultural identity. Hell I have seen a FL flag flown at someone's house, here in NH, because the people were born and raised in Florida.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
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4/17/2012 9:00:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 3:15:30 AM, Wnope wrote:
At 4/16/2012 4:53:50 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/16/2012 2:44:47 PM, Wnope wrote:
This may come off as condescending, but honestly I'm just curious and don't know the answer.

Several people will say that, when the Confederate flag is set up, it represents pride for the old south.

The confederate flag represents the same thing as the New England flag.
http://www.flickr.com...
The only difference is that it's southern.

What is it that the Confederate flag represents that is so praiseworthy?

It represents a Nation, just as he New England flag represents a Nation, or how State flags represent a nation, or how the pan-African flag represents a nation.

It's claimed there's a reason to celebrate it aside from connections to slavery, but what exactly is it celebrating?

Southern heritage.

Did southerners have some specific culture?
Yes, the southern culture was much different than the rest of the country, especial during an prior to the civil war.

The south were ideologically, religiously, culturally different than the North, and lived much differently. Much of the southern culture has been preserved over the centuries, such as hunting gaters, and many southerners still feel a bond with their ancestors.

Some history (before the civil war) that distinguished it as better than its northern counterpart?

Not better, different.

I'm a yankee so I would never wear a confederate flag, however I grew up in Florida despite being born in New Jersey, so I know the cultural significance.

I'd be just as curious why someone might be wearing or parading around a New England Flag, what they are celebrating about that north apart from the United States.

I haven't seen that many people wear the New England flag (but I have seen a flew). What I have seen was Merchandise with a New England flag on it; such as mugs, and teddy bears with a tiny new England flag shirt or hat or carry a tiny new England flag.

You seem to be offended solely because it's not the US flag. A flag does not have to be a symbol of a country, it can also be a symbol of culture and geography. The New England Flag, and Confederate Flags can be seen as US flags, as they represent a region within the US, just as state flags represent a region within the US.

If you live in New England, you could fly the New England Flag, but you might also just fly the American flag or the state flag.

Same could be said for the south.

The Confederate flag was only around during, well, the Confederacy. The flag represents that particular period of time only in the same way the New England flag has no real meaning outside of the civil war (that I know of).

The New England flag is not from the Civil War, it's from the revolutionary war.

Why not fly state flags? Why specifically is it the flag of the people who seceded from the United States that is used to represent "Southerners?" The "South," presumably, existed before before the Confederacy was ever conceived.

Yes and the song Dixie existed before the civil war, and was actually Lincoln's campaign song. Dixie being a old nickname for the south.
Southern Nationalism predates the confederate flag.

Is there just no better alternative to signify the south as something distinct from the north?

What do you have against the south? You are always hating on them. Why do you feel no flag can be flown unless there is a government body represented in that flag?
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
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4/17/2012 9:21:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
there is also the Frencho-American flag for French states and french communities
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Wnope
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4/17/2012 2:42:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm not hating on the south. I'm just not in the least knowledgeable about what actually constitutes confederate culture and why that leads to southern pride.
DanT
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4/17/2012 3:16:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 2:42:25 PM, Wnope wrote:
I'm not hating on the south. I'm just not in the least knowledgeable about what actually constitutes confederate culture and why that leads to southern pride.

Not confederate culture, southern culture. It's where they came from, and part of who they are. It's a national identity, just as being of African decent is a national identity, or being of Jamaican decent is a national identity, or being of french decent is a national identity, or being of Japanese decent is a national identity, or being of roman decent is a national identity.

It's part of their heritage.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Wnope
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4/17/2012 3:34:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 3:16:17 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/17/2012 2:42:25 PM, Wnope wrote:
I'm not hating on the south. I'm just not in the least knowledgeable about what actually constitutes confederate culture and why that leads to southern pride.

Not confederate culture, southern culture. It's where they came from, and part of who they are. It's a national identity, just as being of African decent is a national identity, or being of Jamaican decent is a national identity, or being of french decent is a national identity, or being of Japanese decent is a national identity, or being of roman decent is a national identity.

It's part of their heritage.

Were there any symbols representing the south as a flag other than the Confederate one?