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Slavery is a communistic

DanT
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4/21/2012 5:09:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Slavery is communistic.

Slaves are not paid a salary. Slaves work in exchange for food, clothing, and housing; all of which the slave does not own, but rather is permitted to use, by their master.
Slaves work where they are needed, according to their ability, without personal preference. If they are good at childcare, they take care of the master's children; if they are good at cleaning, they clean the master's house; if they are good at manual labor, they work the fields.
If a slave breaks the rules, the master punishes the slave.

Replace the word slave with worker and the word master with state, and you get communism. The only difference between slavery and communism, is that slaves can be privately owned; this is not to say that the state can't own slaves. Communism is nothing more than public slavery of the populace.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
OberHerr
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4/21/2012 5:18:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
*looks at watch*

Where's Royal?
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OberHerr
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4/21/2012 5:20:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I would say that is an accurate interpretation, to an extent.
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Stephen_Hawkins
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4/21/2012 5:22:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Get Capitalism. Now, replace the a with a u, the "pit" with two ms, and and "al" with "un", and you get...COMMUNISM *gasp*.

The "only difference" (or, focusing on one difference and making it the "only difference") is that slaves are privately owned is where I draw the line. The only difference between capitalism and communism is that the economy is privately owned.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

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royalpaladin
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4/21/2012 5:34:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Here's the distinction: slavery is FORCED. Communism is VOLUNTARY COLLECTIVISM. It's fine if you don't contribute to the community. Nobody is going to be a capitalist slavedriver and force you to work. However, you will not receive communal resources.
OMGJustinBieber
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4/21/2012 5:46:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 5:35:40 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
The U.S.S.R. was not Communist, by the way. Communism exists when the state withers away.

Do you know of any examples where a state has withered away?
OberHerr
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4/21/2012 5:54:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 5:34:35 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Here's the distinction: slavery is FORCED. Communism is VOLUNTARY COLLECTIVISM. It's fine if you don't contribute to the community. Nobody is going to be a capitalist slavedriver and force you to work. However, you will not receive communal resources.

Cept, the problem with that is, just like Jamestown, the few who work will get jut as much as the lazy leechs who don't, and in the end, everyone dies out, or they switch to "Don't work, don't eat."

Also, nobody is forcing you to work in Capitalism, but if you don't you starve. What is wrong with this?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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Stephen_Hawkins
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4/21/2012 6:03:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 5:54:42 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/21/2012 5:34:35 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Here's the distinction: slavery is FORCED. Communism is VOLUNTARY COLLECTIVISM. It's fine if you don't contribute to the community. Nobody is going to be a capitalist slavedriver and force you to work. However, you will not receive communal resources.

Cept, the problem with that is, just like Jamestown, the few who work will get jut as much as the lazy leechs who don't, and in the end, everyone dies out, or they switch to "Don't work, don't eat."

Also, nobody is forcing you to work in Capitalism, but if you don't you starve. What is wrong with this?

So communism is "don't work, don't eat", while capitalism is "don't work, don't get paid, don't eat" or, to cut out the middle man, "don't work, don't eat".

Sorry, I've probably missed the criticism, but isn't that really kind of... negligible?
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
johnnyboy54
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4/21/2012 6:05:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Only because I want the draw the ire of Royalpaladin ;)

RP, anarcho-communism seems contradictory. Can you explain to me how common ownership of the means of production can be enforced without any type of governance?
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
OberHerr
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4/21/2012 6:17:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 6:03:14 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 4/21/2012 5:54:42 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/21/2012 5:34:35 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Here's the distinction: slavery is FORCED. Communism is VOLUNTARY COLLECTIVISM. It's fine if you don't contribute to the community. Nobody is going to be a capitalist slavedriver and force you to work. However, you will not receive communal resources.

Cept, the problem with that is, just like Jamestown, the few who work will get jut as much as the lazy leechs who don't, and in the end, everyone dies out, or they switch to "Don't work, don't eat."

Also, nobody is forcing you to work in Capitalism, but if you don't you starve. What is wrong with this?

So communism is "don't work, don't eat",

According to RP, its, don't work, still eat.

while capitalism is "don't work, don't get paid, don't eat" or, to cut out the middle :man, "don't work, don't eat".

The difference is that when you get paid, your not necessarily just gonna spend it on food, and its quite easy to make a surplus of money.

In communism, thats basically all you get.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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CrazyPerson
Posts: 1,114
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4/21/2012 6:21:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 5:34:35 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Here's the distinction: slavery is FORCED. Communism is VOLUNTARY COLLECTIVISM. It's fine if you don't contribute to the community. Nobody is going to be a capitalist slavedriver and force you to work. However, you will not receive communal resources.

It's not voluntary when they system is designed to have you working for the government in order to obtain resources. And you can't harvest from government land, which is all land. So it is forced.
But we try to pretend, you see, that the external world exists altogether independently of us.
- - - Watts
The moralist is the person who tells people that they ought to be unselfish, when they still feel like egos, and his efforts are always and invariably futile.
- - - Watts
Stephen_Hawkins
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4/21/2012 6:42:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 6:17:25 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/21/2012 6:03:14 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 4/21/2012 5:54:42 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/21/2012 5:34:35 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Here's the distinction: slavery is FORCED. Communism is VOLUNTARY COLLECTIVISM. It's fine if you don't contribute to the community. Nobody is going to be a capitalist slavedriver and force you to work. However, you will not receive communal resources.

Cept, the problem with that is, just like Jamestown, the few who work will get jut as much as the lazy leechs who don't, and in the end, everyone dies out, or they switch to "Don't work, don't eat."

Also, nobody is forcing you to work in Capitalism, but if you don't you starve. What is wrong with this?

So communism is "don't work, don't eat",

According to RP, its, don't work, still eat.

What? I've underlined and emboldened a quotation that seems to disagree...am I misinterpreting something?

while capitalism is "don't work, don't get paid, don't eat" or, to cut out the middle :man, "don't work, don't eat".

The difference is that when you get paid, your not necessarily just gonna spend it on food, and its quite easy to make a surplus of money.

In communism, thats basically all you get.

In Capitalism, you are necessarily going to spend money on food, unless we have a socialise food, or you starve to death (which is the equivalent of a personal enslavement, but leaving that argument for another philosophical day).
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Contra
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4/21/2012 7:06:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 5:34:35 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Here's the distinction: slavery is FORCED. Communism is VOLUNTARY COLLECTIVISM. It's fine if you don't contribute to the community. Nobody is going to be a capitalist slavedriver and force you to work. However, you will not receive communal resources.

This is the definition I guess. The USSR was actually a Stalinist Dictatorship with marxist/ Communist aspects. Although, the theory sounds pretty unrealistic to work.
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royalpaladin
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4/21/2012 7:25:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 5:46:33 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 4/21/2012 5:35:40 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
The U.S.S.R. was not Communist, by the way. Communism exists when the state withers away.

Do you know of any examples where a state has withered away?

Yes. There are several communities in Israel in which true Communism has been implemented.
royalpaladin
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4/21/2012 7:26:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 5:54:42 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/21/2012 5:34:35 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Here's the distinction: slavery is FORCED. Communism is VOLUNTARY COLLECTIVISM. It's fine if you don't contribute to the community. Nobody is going to be a capitalist slavedriver and force you to work. However, you will not receive communal resources.

Cept, the problem with that is, just like Jamestown, the few who work will get jut as much as the lazy leechs who don't, and in the end, everyone dies out, or they switch to "Don't work, don't eat."

Also, nobody is forcing you to work in Capitalism, but if you don't you starve. What is wrong with this?

What's wrong is the exploitation of workers. That wont' happen in Communism. Everyone gets equal political and economic clout as long as they contribute.
royalpaladin
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4/21/2012 7:27:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 6:05:40 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Only because I want the draw the ire of Royalpaladin ;)

RP, anarcho-communism seems contradictory. Can you explain to me how common ownership of the means of production can be enforced without any type of governance?

Voluntary collectivism. The people who want to help all would join the community. Several communities in Israel function in this manner.
royalpaladin
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4/21/2012 7:29:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 6:17:25 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/21/2012 6:03:14 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 4/21/2012 5:54:42 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/21/2012 5:34:35 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Here's the distinction: slavery is FORCED. Communism is VOLUNTARY COLLECTIVISM. It's fine if you don't contribute to the community. Nobody is going to be a capitalist slavedriver and force you to work. However, you will not receive communal resources.

Cept, the problem with that is, just like Jamestown, the few who work will get jut as much as the lazy leechs who don't, and in the end, everyone dies out, or they switch to "Don't work, don't eat."

Also, nobody is forcing you to work in Capitalism, but if you don't you starve. What is wrong with this?

So communism is "don't work, don't eat",

According to RP, its, don't work, still eat.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." As Ragnar Rahl aptly puts it, don't use Capitalist propaganda to define Communism. Let us define it.
while capitalism is "don't work, don't get paid, don't eat" or, to cut out the middle :man, "don't work, don't eat".

The difference is that when you get paid, your not necessarily just gonna spend it on food, and its quite easy to make a surplus of money.

In communism, thats basically all you get.
LOL, this is nonsense. There is no reason that luxury items don't exist in communism. You just made this up.
johnnyboy54
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4/21/2012 7:29:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 7:27:18 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/21/2012 6:05:40 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Only because I want the draw the ire of Royalpaladin ;)

RP, anarcho-communism seems contradictory. Can you explain to me how common ownership of the means of production can be enforced without any type of governance?

Voluntary collectivism. The people who want to help all would join the community. Several communities in Israel function in this manner.

But can it work on a bigger scale? My guess is those communities in Israel are small and tight-knit.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
royalpaladin
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4/21/2012 7:31:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 6:21:06 PM, CrazyPerson wrote:
At 4/21/2012 5:34:35 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Here's the distinction: slavery is FORCED. Communism is VOLUNTARY COLLECTIVISM. It's fine if you don't contribute to the community. Nobody is going to be a capitalist slavedriver and force you to work. However, you will not receive communal resources.

It's not voluntary when they system is designed to have you working for the government in order to obtain resources.
There is no government, and you are not forced to join. In Communism, the state withers away. Only society exists.
And you can't harvest from government land, which is all land. So it is forced.
LOL, really? Even modern nations use this principle. Chinese citizens cannot just randomly use resources that belong to the American government. If you choose not to join the community, you don't get the benefits. I don't see what the problem with this is.
royalpaladin
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4/21/2012 7:31:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 7:29:57 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 4/21/2012 7:27:18 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/21/2012 6:05:40 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Only because I want the draw the ire of Royalpaladin ;)

RP, anarcho-communism seems contradictory. Can you explain to me how common ownership of the means of production can be enforced without any type of governance?

Voluntary collectivism. The people who want to help all would join the community. Several communities in Israel function in this manner.

But can it work on a bigger scale? My guess is those communities in Israel are small and tight-knit.

I would envision a collection of small communities as the ideal society. There is no reason that we have to take over the world.
royalpaladin
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4/21/2012 7:32:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 7:06:57 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/21/2012 5:34:35 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Here's the distinction: slavery is FORCED. Communism is VOLUNTARY COLLECTIVISM. It's fine if you don't contribute to the community. Nobody is going to be a capitalist slavedriver and force you to work. However, you will not receive communal resources.

This is the definition I guess. The USSR was actually a Stalinist Dictatorship with marxist/ Communist aspects. Although, the theory sounds pretty unrealistic to work.

It would be difficult to implement, but then again so is any society.
CrazyPerson
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4/21/2012 7:41:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 7:31:03 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/21/2012 6:21:06 PM, CrazyPerson wrote:
At 4/21/2012 5:34:35 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Here's the distinction: slavery is FORCED. Communism is VOLUNTARY COLLECTIVISM. It's fine if you don't contribute to the community. Nobody is going to be a capitalist slavedriver and force you to work. However, you will not receive communal resources.

It's not voluntary when they system is designed to have you working for the government in order to obtain resources.
There is no government, and you are not forced to join. In Communism, the state withers away. Only society exists.

Under communism, there is no governement?

And you can't harvest from government land, which is all land. So it is forced.
LOL, really? Even modern nations use this principle. Chinese citizens cannot just randomly use resources that belong to the American government. If you choose not to join the community, you don't get the benefits. I don't see what the problem with this is.

Because of this combined with the fact that you cannot own land, you are subject to be forced to a predetermined ration of predetermined nutritional values, and not everyone's body functions alike. It just seems potentially more dangerous than in a republic or anarchism
But we try to pretend, you see, that the external world exists altogether independently of us.
- - - Watts
The moralist is the person who tells people that they ought to be unselfish, when they still feel like egos, and his efforts are always and invariably futile.
- - - Watts
CrazyPerson
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4/21/2012 7:44:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I see capitalism inheriting socialism, leading to a communism and ultimately forming a fascist nation. How can this not be the case?
But we try to pretend, you see, that the external world exists altogether independently of us.
- - - Watts
The moralist is the person who tells people that they ought to be unselfish, when they still feel like egos, and his efforts are always and invariably futile.
- - - Watts
royalpaladin
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4/21/2012 7:49:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 7:41:07 PM, CrazyPerson wrote:
At 4/21/2012 7:31:03 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/21/2012 6:21:06 PM, CrazyPerson wrote:
At 4/21/2012 5:34:35 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Here's the distinction: slavery is FORCED. Communism is VOLUNTARY COLLECTIVISM. It's fine if you don't contribute to the community. Nobody is going to be a capitalist slavedriver and force you to work. However, you will not receive communal resources.

It's not voluntary when they system is designed to have you working for the government in order to obtain resources.
There is no government, and you are not forced to join. In Communism, the state withers away. Only society exists.

Under communism, there is no governement?

No. Marx literally says that the "state withers away".
And you can't harvest from government land, which is all land. So it is forced.
LOL, really? Even modern nations use this principle. Chinese citizens cannot just randomly use resources that belong to the American government. If you choose not to join the community, you don't get the benefits. I don't see what the problem with this is.

Because of this combined with the fact that you cannot own land, you are subject to be forced to a predetermined ration of predetermined nutritional values, and not everyone's body functions alike.
You just made this up again. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." Obviously some people require different resources in order to survive. An infant would not receive the same resources as an adult male.
It just seems potentially more dangerous than in a republic or anarchism
I don't see how voluntary collectivism is more dangerous than a republic, and communism is a form of anarchism.
royalpaladin
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4/21/2012 7:49:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 7:44:59 PM, CrazyPerson wrote:
I see capitalism inheriting socialism, leading to a communism and ultimately forming a fascist nation. How can this not be the case?

LOL, yeah, that makes sense. An egalitarian state would become fascist and promote racial inequality. LOL. Stop listening to Glenn Beck.
CrazyPerson
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4/21/2012 7:53:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 7:49:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/21/2012 7:44:59 PM, CrazyPerson wrote:
I see capitalism inheriting socialism, leading to a communism and ultimately forming a fascist nation. How can this not be the case?

LOL, yeah, that makes sense. An egalitarian state would become fascist and promote racial inequality. LOL. Stop listening to Glenn Beck.

Again, how could it not be that case that when - Government has total power, nobody will monopolize on this? What do we already know about human nature?
But we try to pretend, you see, that the external world exists altogether independently of us.
- - - Watts
The moralist is the person who tells people that they ought to be unselfish, when they still feel like egos, and his efforts are always and invariably futile.
- - - Watts
royalpaladin
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4/21/2012 7:55:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 7:53:54 PM, CrazyPerson wrote:
At 4/21/2012 7:49:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/21/2012 7:44:59 PM, CrazyPerson wrote:
I see capitalism inheriting socialism, leading to a communism and ultimately forming a fascist nation. How can this not be the case?

LOL, yeah, that makes sense. An egalitarian state would become fascist and promote racial inequality. LOL. Stop listening to Glenn Beck.

Again, how could it not be that case that when - Government has total power, nobody will monopolize on this? What do we already know about human nature?

I just told you that there is no government in Communism. How does one capitalize on nonexistent power?
CrazyPerson
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4/21/2012 7:56:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2012 7:49:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/21/2012 7:44:59 PM, CrazyPerson wrote:
I see capitalism inheriting socialism, leading to a communism and ultimately forming a fascist nation. How can this not be the case?

LOL, yeah, that makes sense. An egalitarian state would become fascist and promote racial inequality. LOL. Stop listening to Glenn Beck.

Egalitarian applies to all people, both governmental and societal. Communism is not egalitarian, therefore you are probably correct in assuming egalitarianism would probably not lead directly to fascism.
But we try to pretend, you see, that the external world exists altogether independently of us.
- - - Watts
The moralist is the person who tells people that they ought to be unselfish, when they still feel like egos, and his efforts are always and invariably futile.
- - - Watts