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any An-Caps left?

CrazyPerson
Posts: 1,114
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4/25/2012 11:33:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
anarcho-capitalists?
But we try to pretend, you see, that the external world exists altogether independently of us.
- - - Watts
The moralist is the person who tells people that they ought to be unselfish, when they still feel like egos, and his efforts are always and invariably futile.
- - - Watts
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/25/2012 11:41:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 11:38:23 AM, westernmarch wrote:
At 4/25/2012 11:33:51 AM, CrazyPerson wrote:
anarcho-capitalists?

Bingo.

Can someone explain being an An-cap to me?

What's wrong with Google?
President of DDO
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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4/25/2012 11:41:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 11:36:10 AM, darkkermit wrote:
i was an anarchist for 10 whole minutes.

Again - I demand a "like" button.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
westernmarch
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4/25/2012 11:44:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 11:41:08 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 4/25/2012 11:38:23 AM, westernmarch wrote:
At 4/25/2012 11:33:51 AM, CrazyPerson wrote:
anarcho-capitalists?

Bingo.

Can someone explain being an An-cap to me?

What's wrong with Google?

I want someone who was an an-cap.
.
CrazyPerson
Posts: 1,114
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4/25/2012 12:04:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ok, in theory - an-com works great. We do not live in theory, however, and the cyclical nature of human governmental systems is very apparent. An-Cap is just the realization of our reality and the refusal to live in theory. We know that some people are greedy, so the system must cater to those individuals, as depicted throughout history.
But we try to pretend, you see, that the external world exists altogether independently of us.
- - - Watts
The moralist is the person who tells people that they ought to be unselfish, when they still feel like egos, and his efforts are always and invariably futile.
- - - Watts
CrazyPerson
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4/25/2012 12:21:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
An an-com will attempt to terminate a war by walking into the line of fire with a few friends dressed in black, using a megaphone to tell each side of the battlefield that they are each equally fighting for the wrong things, and that we should just all work together and get along. An an-cap will just bomb the whole field on a solo mission.
But we try to pretend, you see, that the external world exists altogether independently of us.
- - - Watts
The moralist is the person who tells people that they ought to be unselfish, when they still feel like egos, and his efforts are always and invariably futile.
- - - Watts
DanT
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4/25/2012 12:25:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 11:31:05 AM, westernmarch wrote:
Defend your views.

When I was 16 I was a Social Liberal (Progressive)
When I was 17 I became a Anarcho-Communist (Left wing Libertarian)
When I was 18 I became a Anarcho-Capitalist (Left wing Libertarian)
When I was 19 I became a Classic Liberal/minarchist (Right wing Libertarian)
Today at 22 I am still a Classic Liberal (Right wing Libertarian)

Anarcho-Capitalism is a form of Anarchism (Left wing Libertarianism), which believes in Anarchy with a Capitalist economy. In other words, people own private property, and barter for goods and services.

Anarcho-Communism is also Left wing Libertarian, it believes in anarchy with a communist economy; that is people share everything, and no-one owns their own property. Anarcho-Communism differs from traditional Marxism in that it's volentary, whereas Karl Marx proposes the creation of a strong centralized government to force communism on the middle class, and only after every state is communist does Marx believe the state will wither away. It is incorrect to assume that Karl Marx was an Anarcho-Communist, because Anarcho-Communists don't want to create a strong centralized state that forces communism, anarcho-communists want voluntary communism, which I now realize is implausible.

Back to Anarcho-Capitalists. Anarcho-Capitalism is more plausible than anarcho-communism, because one needs a state to prevent anarcho-communism from turning into anarcho-capitalism. Anarcho-Capitalism allows for private ownership, and one must defend their own property, or form neighborhood watches, or hire competing private security firms to protect the community's property. If one does not approve of the methods of justice dealt by one security firm, they may hire another security firm. Punishment may range from lynchings, shootings, banishment from the community, floggings, branding, or what ever other punishment the security firm may stipulate in their contract.
There would be no laws, besides the laws of nature; that being that every man has a right to life, liberty, and property, and no man may infringe upon the rights of another. If you steal, murder, or kidnap someone, you will be punished by the community. There will be no state taxing the people, or creating rules for the people. Everyone is free to do as they please so long as they do not infringe upon another person's sovereignty.

The reason I switched from Anarcho-capitalist to Classic Liberal, is because I realized it is more efficient to have a state, charged with, and limited to protecting the life, liberty, and property of the people.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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4/25/2012 1:59:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Philosophical anarchist reporting in, shawty. Default to anarchism, do whatever you can to help your fellow peeps out, do whatever you can to get around government when it tries to butt-f*ck you. I'll take my chances with the normal asshats over being caught in political capture by badge-toting, quasi-sovereign, poopheaded agents of state power.
Thaddeus
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4/25/2012 2:36:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Voluntaryist here, which is close enough. I believe the choice between between anarcho-capitalism or anarcho-communism is a matter of personal preference, not ethics. Hence I can identify with both. If there were two societies, one an-cap and one an-com, I would join the an-cap, but the two are not mutually exclusive.
DanT
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4/25/2012 3:15:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 2:36:15 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
Voluntaryist here, which is close enough. I believe the choice between between anarcho-capitalism or anarcho-communism is a matter of personal preference, not ethics. Hence I can identify with both. If there were two societies, one an-cap and one an-com, I would join the an-cap, but the two are not mutually exclusive.

This;

An-cap and an-com are both the same ideology, anarchism, the only difference is the method of choice. Anarchism is Left Wing Libertarianism, and minarchism aka classic liberalism is Right Wing Libertarianism.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Thaddeus
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4/25/2012 3:18:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 12:25:35 PM, DanT wrote:
The reason I switched from Anarcho-capitalist to Classic Liberal, is because I realized it is more efficient to have a state, charged with, and limited to protecting the life, liberty, and property of the people.

Pourquoi?
Contra
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4/25/2012 3:58:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
DanT,

Why did you change away from being a Social Liberal? No attacks here please.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

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CrazyPerson
Posts: 1,114
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4/25/2012 4:19:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I am an anarcho-capitalist because within capitalism there exists a place for fascists, communists, right wing and left wing liberal, and everyone else. I don't see anyone in our country getting chastised for living the way they want. Capitalism offers the widest variety of possibilities. We have communes now, so why don't the anarcho-commies just move in? We have high stakes businesses and fascist style monopolizations that anybody can start if they are that type of person. We've got the middle-ground where people can work and own property if they want. We've got something for everyone - right?
But we try to pretend, you see, that the external world exists altogether independently of us.
- - - Watts
The moralist is the person who tells people that they ought to be unselfish, when they still feel like egos, and his efforts are always and invariably futile.
- - - Watts
thett3
Posts: 14,338
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4/25/2012 4:47:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I started moving that way a few weeks ago when I asked myself "What good has the government produced?" and came up with very little.
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: thett was right
Grape
Posts: 989
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4/25/2012 4:52:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I am still here to some extent. I am an anarchist because the state unfailingly produces really bad outcomes. Attempts to constrain its power has failed, and there is no service that it provides efficiently.

"Capitalism" because I really think that anything goes as far as economics is concerned, and a very broad definition of capitalism allows for just about anything whereas communitarianism is artificially constraining. Also because I tend to agree with more mainstream libertarians in terms of current political strategy and policy, whereas leftist anarchists for some unfathomable reason are friendly with the statist left.
Thaddeus
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4/25/2012 5:00:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 4:52:46 PM, Grape wrote:
I am still here to some extent. I am an anarchist because the state unfailingly produces really bad outcomes. Attempts to constrain its power has failed, and there is no service that it provides efficiently.

"Capitalism" because I really think that anything goes as far as economics is concerned, and a very broad definition of capitalism allows for just about anything whereas communitarianism is artificially constraining. Also because I tend to agree with more mainstream libertarians in terms of current political strategy and policy, whereas leftist anarchists for some unfathomable reason are friendly with the statist left.

Quite. I just started a thread asking for why they support the statist left. We have a few new ones since when you were last active so I'll be interested in what they say.
DanT
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4/25/2012 5:03:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 4:52:46 PM, Grape wrote:
I am still here to some extent. I am an anarchist because the state unfailingly produces really bad outcomes. Attempts to constrain its power has failed, and there is no service that it provides efficiently.

"Capitalism" because I really think that anything goes as far as economics is concerned, and a very broad definition of capitalism allows for just about anything whereas communitarianism is artificially constraining. Also because I tend to agree with more mainstream libertarians in terms of current political strategy and policy, whereas leftist anarchists for some unfathomable reason are friendly with the statist left.

They are friendly with the statist left because they believe that the statist left wants what they want. An-com believes in voluntary state-less communism, whereas communist parties believe in state implemented communism, and that the state would wither away once every country is communist. In the end they both want stateless communism, but the methodology is vastly different.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
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4/25/2012 5:08:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 3:58:59 PM, Contra wrote:
DanT,

Why did you change away from being a Social Liberal? No attacks here please.

I went from social liberal to an-com because I lost faith in the state. I went from an-com to an-cap because I realized the flaws of communism, and I realized the benefits of capitalism. Before going an-cap I was influenced by the media, and teachers into thinking capitalism was bad, than after doing my own research, and weighing both sides, I came to the conclusion capitalism was a force for good.
Than I went from an-cap to classic liberal aka right wing libertarian, because I realized the flaws of communism, and the need of the state; at the same time I believe the state should remain highly restricted, maximizing liberty.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
FREEDO
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4/25/2012 5:09:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Anarcho-Piratist.
It's a sort of economic Taoism. It is the beauty of chaotic order in it's most refined form, in regards to the exchange of human goods and services.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
DanT
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4/25/2012 5:09:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 5:08:06 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/25/2012 3:58:59 PM, Contra wrote:
DanT,

Why did you change away from being a Social Liberal? No attacks here please.

I went from social liberal to an-com because I lost faith in the state. I went from an-com to an-cap because I realized the flaws of communism, and I realized the benefits of capitalism. Before going an-cap I was influenced by the media, and teachers into thinking capitalism was bad, than after doing my own research, and weighing both sides, I came to the conclusion capitalism was a force for good.
Than I went from an-cap to classic liberal aka right wing libertarian, because I realized the flaws of anarchism, and the need of the state; at the same time I believe the state should remain highly restricted, maximizing liberty.

typo
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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4/25/2012 8:30:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 3:18:29 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 4/25/2012 12:25:35 PM, DanT wrote:
The reason I switched from Anarcho-capitalist to Classic Liberal, is because I realized it is more efficient to have a state, charged with, and limited to protecting the life, liberty, and property of the people.

Pourquoi?

If the sole task of the state is to protect, life, liberty, and property, than we maximize liberty and minimize chaos.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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4/25/2012 8:51:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 8:30:37 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/25/2012 3:18:29 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 4/25/2012 12:25:35 PM, DanT wrote:
The reason I switched from Anarcho-capitalist to Classic Liberal, is because I realized it is more efficient to have a state, charged with, and limited to protecting the life, liberty, and property of the people.

Pourquoi?

If the sole task of the state is to protect, life, liberty, and property, than we maximize liberty and minimize chaos.

Seems legit.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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4/26/2012 10:46:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Anarchy is the way things are dawg.

As the only transient member of DDO, anarchy is most apparent to me.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
CosmicAlfonzo
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4/26/2012 10:55:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Property rights only exist if they are recognized or enforced. There is no such thing.

The state is just a very powerful economic institution. It gains its influence because and only because people respect its authority.

Anarcho-realism is basically the same thing as an-cap. An-caps tend to be anarcho-idealists though.

The difference is one is an observation of reality, the other is wishful thinking about how things should be. One understands anarchy, and sees it. The other doesn't, and continues to desire it.

I live anarchy, dawg.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
DanT
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4/26/2012 11:31:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/26/2012 10:55:00 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Property rights only exist if they are recognized or enforced. There is no such thing.

The state is just a very powerful economic institution. It gains its influence because and only because people respect its authority.

Anarcho-realism is basically the same thing as an-cap. An-caps tend to be anarcho-idealists though.

The difference is one is an observation of reality, the other is wishful thinking about how things should be. One understands anarchy, and sees it. The other doesn't, and continues to desire it.

I live anarchy, dawg.

In accordance with the Laws of Nature and of that which Nature's God entitled to men; all men have certain natural, essential, and inherent rights - among which are, the enjoying and defending life and liberty; acquiring, possessing, and protecting, property; and, in a word, of seeking and obtaining happiness. Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, in order to secure these natural rights.All men are born equally free and independent; Governments are instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security, of the whole community, and not for the private interest or emolument of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, all government of right originates from the people, is founded in consent, and instituted for the general good. Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, and public liberty manifestly endangered, and all other means of redress are ineffectual, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

The right to property is a right guaranteed not by the laws of man, but by the laws of nature. Because the right to property is a law of nature and not a law of man, governments of men has no right to revoke this essential and unalienable right. When the governments recognize the natural rights of men, they create an additional legal right to property, which overlaps the natural right.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
CosmicAlfonzo
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4/26/2012 1:19:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
That's cute, but if I jack your sh1t, your property "rights" are not really anything more than your ability to enforce them.

If someone doesn't respect your "rights", and you are unable to secure your property, it doesn't really matter if you believe you have these rights or not.

It's a contract, an often unspoken one. Property rights only exist as rules of a game exist.

Do I have property? Yes, but I still understand that I am not entitled to anything, not everyone out there is goinv to respect my claim over an object. God will not smite every thief. Might makes right.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
CosmicAlfonzo
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4/26/2012 1:22:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The state has the right to do whatever it is able to execute. So a man has the right to do whatever he/she is able to execute. These are true natural rights.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp