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An-coms/left anarchists

Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/4/2012 10:18:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 4:59:13 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
Why are you friendly with the statist left?

Considering I'm the only leftist anarchist on this site (that I know of), I assume this question is directed toward me lol -- and someone else asked me this today actually. I'm also assuming that being friendly with the statist left refers to showing support for various social programs. I should clarify that I support many (though certainly not all) programs living under the current system we have now. That doesn't make my ideological preferences any less anarchist, but just reflect my views on the practicap application of politics rather than theoretical.

If someone broke into your house today, you would call the cops and follow legal procedure. Does that mean you support State sanctioned police and government? No. You would do it because that's the most appropriate course of action in our current society. Likewise, I support those programs living with the current BS system of crony capitalism we have now. My ideology is based on anarchist principles. I am anti-State. However I am also opposed to various aspects of capitalism that I find are counter-productive or oppressive.

You could say I'm an anarcho-syndicalist, but I hate labels. I agree with the anti-State philosophy, but not unbridled capitalism which I think is certainly problematic. The origin of the anarchist movement was anti-capitalist after all. Mostly I'm just very pro-labor. I'm a Labor Studies and Employment Relations major with a minor in Human Resources, so I'm particularly interested and invested in worker's rights. I'm not so much focused on communal living as I am with the way the economy (workplace) functions. Changes in that aspect of society would inevitably change cultural and societal relations, and in my opinion for the better. It's frustrating that being a Leftist is automatically associated with Big Government and social programs. I think it's about placing a certain value on social justice over a strict emphasis on solely protecting private property. Defining what property is/means is really at the heart of the debate anyway.
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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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5/4/2012 10:24:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
There are a few other left anarchists on the site. Lasagna and I are both Anarchist Communist.

I am friendly with the statist left because I think that protecting human rights should be a priority, and unless we protect them when we have a state, we have no precedent for protecting them when we eradicate the state.
royalpaladin
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5/4/2012 10:28:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/4/2012 10:25:44 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
@Danielle: "I'm the only leftist-anarchist on this site (that I know of)"

HAVE YOU NEVER HEARD OF ROYALPALADIN!?!?

LOL

She hasn't been super-active for a few months, so she doesn't really know me.
UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
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5/4/2012 10:30:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/4/2012 10:28:48 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 5/4/2012 10:25:44 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
@Danielle: "I'm the only leftist-anarchist on this site (that I know of)"

HAVE YOU NEVER HEARD OF ROYALPALADIN!?!?

LOL

She hasn't been super-active for a few months, so she doesn't really know me.

But how could she have missed YOU? You are so super-active that I would have thought she would have noticed you.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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5/4/2012 10:37:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/4/2012 10:24:27 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
There are a few other left anarchists on the site. Lasagna and I are both Anarchist Communist.

I am friendly with the statist left because I think that protecting human rights should be a priority, and unless we protect them when we have a state, we have no precedent for protecting them when we eradicate the state.

Anarchy is hilarious because you think that people will play nice with each other without the state to make them.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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5/4/2012 10:42:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/4/2012 10:37:02 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 5/4/2012 10:24:27 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
There are a few other left anarchists on the site. Lasagna and I are both Anarchist Communist.

I am friendly with the statist left because I think that protecting human rights should be a priority, and unless we protect them when we have a state, we have no precedent for protecting them when we eradicate the state.

Anarchy is hilarious because you think that people will play nice with each other without the state to make them.

It's funny that you think that people need someone threatening them with violence in order to get them to behave. The state fails in its "protections" anyways.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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5/4/2012 10:47:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/4/2012 10:42:29 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
The state is often responsible for many of the harms that befall the people.

Yes. Without the state, instead of robbing and looting and raping and murdering and stealing from each other, we'll form a peace circle, smoke the bong of life and live in harmony forever.

We'll all work hard at our jobs for the knowledge that we're helping our earthly neighbor in the name of the Great "One".

You've shown me the light.
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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5/4/2012 10:52:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/4/2012 10:47:50 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 5/4/2012 10:42:29 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
The state is often responsible for many of the harms that befall the people.

Yes. Without the state, instead of robbing and looting and raping and murdering and stealing from each other, we'll form a peace circle, smoke the bong of life and live in harmony forever.

We'll all work hard at our jobs for the knowledge that we're helping our earthly neighbor in the name of the Great "One".

You've shown me the light.

rp, this is why i believe that voluntaryists like me and an-coms like you are natural allies. (our ideal socieiteis are compatible and we share a lote of the same ideals relative to the status quo dudes like cp)
thett3
Posts: 14,348
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5/4/2012 10:55:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/4/2012 10:47:50 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 5/4/2012 10:42:29 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
The state is often responsible for many of the harms that befall the people.

Yes. Without the state, instead of robbing and looting and raping and murdering and stealing from each other, we'll form a peace circle, smoke the bong of life and live in harmony forever.

We'll all work hard at our jobs for the knowledge that we're helping our earthly neighbor in the name of the Great "One".

You've shown me the light.

That's under the assumption that people in a state of anarchy with one another will treat each other as poorly as states (which are always in a state of anarchy with other states) do. That's problematic, because government leaders suffer very little if any consequences for their actions--of course I would tend to be more aggressive if I could make others pay for it like the State can. After all, states are responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths during the 20th century, far less than individuals who were killed at the hands of another individual.

It's not as if anarchy is the be all end all utopia (at least not to any intellectually honest person) but rather that the exploitation people would suffer from one another would be less than that they suffer under the State.
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"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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5/4/2012 10:58:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/4/2012 10:47:50 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 5/4/2012 10:42:29 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
The state is often responsible for many of the harms that befall the people.

Yes. Without the state, instead of robbing and looting and raping and murdering and stealing from each other, we'll form a peace circle, smoke the bong of life and live in harmony forever.

States have killed many more people than individuals have. In addition, the state was formed THROUGH VIOLENCE. It's completely illegitimate. The whole concept of statehood is illegitimate.
We'll all work hard at our jobs for the knowledge that we're helping our earthly neighbor in the name of the Great "One".

Are we helping each other under the state?
You've shown me the light.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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5/4/2012 10:59:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/4/2012 10:58:25 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 5/4/2012 10:47:50 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 5/4/2012 10:42:29 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
The state is often responsible for many of the harms that befall the people.

Yes. Without the state, instead of robbing and looting and raping and murdering and stealing from each other, we'll form a peace circle, smoke the bong of life and live in harmony forever.

States have killed many more people than individuals have. In addition, the state was formed THROUGH VIOLENCE. It's completely illegitimate. The whole concept of statehood is illegitimate.
We'll all work hard at our jobs for the knowledge that we're helping our earthly neighbor in the name of the Great "One".

Are we helping each other under the state?
You've shown me the light.

Well you see, under the state, I can't go next door and burn my neighbors house down while drunkenly dancing on the cinders. Without the state they'd be ash my now.

See what I mean?
thett3
Posts: 14,348
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5/4/2012 11:00:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/4/2012 10:59:40 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 5/4/2012 10:58:25 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 5/4/2012 10:47:50 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 5/4/2012 10:42:29 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
The state is often responsible for many of the harms that befall the people.

Yes. Without the state, instead of robbing and looting and raping and murdering and stealing from each other, we'll form a peace circle, smoke the bong of life and live in harmony forever.

States have killed many more people than individuals have. In addition, the state was formed THROUGH VIOLENCE. It's completely illegitimate. The whole concept of statehood is illegitimate.
We'll all work hard at our jobs for the knowledge that we're helping our earthly neighbor in the name of the Great "One".

Are we helping each other under the state?
You've shown me the light.

Well you see, under the state, I can't go next door and burn my neighbors house down while drunkenly dancing on the cinders. Without the state they'd be ash my now.

See what I mean?

Anarchy isn't the equivalent of lawlessness...it just means no State mandated laws
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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5/4/2012 11:01:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/4/2012 10:59:40 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 5/4/2012 10:58:25 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 5/4/2012 10:47:50 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 5/4/2012 10:42:29 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
The state is often responsible for many of the harms that befall the people.

Yes. Without the state, instead of robbing and looting and raping and murdering and stealing from each other, we'll form a peace circle, smoke the bong of life and live in harmony forever.

States have killed many more people than individuals have. In addition, the state was formed THROUGH VIOLENCE. It's completely illegitimate. The whole concept of statehood is illegitimate.
We'll all work hard at our jobs for the knowledge that we're helping our earthly neighbor in the name of the Great "One".

Are we helping each other under the state?
You've shown me the light.

Well you see, under the state, I can't go next door and burn my neighbors house down while drunkenly dancing on the cinders. Without the state they'd be ash my now.

See what I mean?

im drunk and not normally this rude, but if you believe that, youa re an idiot.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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5/4/2012 11:04:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/4/2012 10:59:40 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 5/4/2012 10:58:25 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 5/4/2012 10:47:50 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 5/4/2012 10:42:29 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
The state is often responsible for many of the harms that befall the people.

Yes. Without the state, instead of robbing and looting and raping and murdering and stealing from each other, we'll form a peace circle, smoke the bong of life and live in harmony forever.

States have killed many more people than individuals have. In addition, the state was formed THROUGH VIOLENCE. It's completely illegitimate. The whole concept of statehood is illegitimate.
We'll all work hard at our jobs for the knowledge that we're helping our earthly neighbor in the name of the Great "One".

Are we helping each other under the state?
You've shown me the light.

Well you see, under the state, I can't go next door and burn my neighbors house down while drunkenly dancing on the cinders. Without the state they'd be ash my now.

See what I mean?

Anarchy does not mean chaos and lawlessness. It means that people in society make rules and enforce them as a community.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/4/2012 11:05:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/4/2012 10:25:44 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
@Danielle: "I'm the only leftist-anarchist on this site (that I know of)"

HAVE YOU NEVER HEARD OF ROYALPALADIN!?!?

Well this topic has been posted for a week and nobody responded to it. I don't really come on DDO anymore. I thought she was a communist. I forgot about Lasagna lol that's definitely my bad.
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OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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5/4/2012 11:07:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think MAYBE in a society like Japan anarchy might work.

But, the trouble is that nothing can be enforced. You can steal from someone, and have no consequences easy.

You can steal someone's idea, and he can't do anything about it.

I dunno, if it would work, I would love it. But it wouldn't.
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thett3
Posts: 14,348
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5/4/2012 11:08:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/4/2012 11:07:42 PM, OberHerr wrote:
I think MAYBE in a society like Japan anarchy might work.

But, the trouble is that nothing can be enforced. You can steal from someone, and have no consequences easy.

You can steal someone's idea, and he can't do anything about it.

I dunno, if it would work, I would love it. But it wouldn't.

Who told you that?
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/4/2012 11:09:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/4/2012 10:37:02 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Anarchy is hilarious because you think that people will play nice with each other without the state to make them.

You're hilarious because you cannot grasp the fact that anarchy means anti-State, not anti-government. This simple concept has been explained a million times over. There would absolutely still be crime in an anarchist society. No anarchist I've ever met says otherwise, so your entire criticism is irrelevant. We just propose different solutions. We also point out that not only can various aspects of the State be inherently criminal in itself, but that it contributes to a lot of crime (example: anti-drug laws facilitate the drug war and every negative repercussion). That is just one of many examples in which the State hurts and not helps crime/society.
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OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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5/4/2012 11:12:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/4/2012 11:08:41 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 5/4/2012 11:07:42 PM, OberHerr wrote:
I think MAYBE in a society like Japan anarchy might work.

But, the trouble is that nothing can be enforced. You can steal from someone, and have no consequences easy.

You can steal someone's idea, and he can't do anything about it.

I dunno, if it would work, I would love it. But it wouldn't.

Who told you that.

Ok, correction, it would significantly harder for things to be enforced.

I mean, is anyone going to argue with me that at least the state does a good job at law-enforcement, or better than some citizens vigilante group?
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/4/2012 11:54:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/4/2012 11:09:53 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/4/2012 10:37:02 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Anarchy is hilarious because you think that people will play nice with each other without the state to make them.

Anarchy means anti-State, not anti-government.

Sigged.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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5/4/2012 11:56:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/4/2012 11:12:22 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 5/4/2012 11:08:41 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 5/4/2012 11:07:42 PM, OberHerr wrote:
I think MAYBE in a society like Japan anarchy might work.

But, the trouble is that nothing can be enforced. You can steal from someone, and have no consequences easy.

You can steal someone's idea, and he can't do anything about it.

I dunno, if it would work, I would love it. But it wouldn't.

Who told you that.

Ok, correction, it would significantly harder for things to be enforced.

I mean, is anyone going to argue with me that at least the state does a good job at law-enforcement
yes, i would argue that they don't
, or better than some citizens vigilante group?
i'm not suggesting a citizens viglante group, but a polycentric law systmem. far more efficient.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/5/2012 12:01:50 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/4/2012 10:24:27 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
There are a few other left anarchists on the site. Lasagna and I are both Anarchist Communist.

I'm Left-Anarchist, but nothing whatsoever to do with Communism.

I am friendly with the statist left because I think that protecting human rights should be a priority, and unless we protect them when we have a state, we have no precedent for protecting them when we eradicate the state.

Youre not Anarcho anything. You are against the freedom to put what you want into your body, you are Pro-NAFTA, and Pro WTO, and Pro-UN.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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5/5/2012 12:04:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/5/2012 12:01:50 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 5/4/2012 10:24:27 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
There are a few other left anarchists on the site. Lasagna and I are both Anarchist Communist.

I'm Left-Anarchist, but nothing whatsoever to do with Communism.

I am friendly with the statist left because I think that protecting human rights should be a priority, and unless we protect them when we have a state, we have no precedent for protecting them when we eradicate the state.

Youre not Anarcho anything. You are against the freedom to put what you want into your body, you are Pro-NAFTA, and Pro WTO, and Pro-UN.

The UN is not a world government.

Most of my answers to the "Big Issues" were also given with the assumption that I had to operate within the state.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/5/2012 12:17:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/4/2012 11:54:18 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Anarchy means anti-State, not anti-government.

Sigged.

Thanks :) I think it's an important distinction and one that statists can't seem to wrap their mind around, and I have no idea why. Obviously you need government! No man is an island and some aspect of governance is needed to facilitate trade and protect rights. However since rights are man-made concepts based on cultural preferences (outside of the right to life), then one ought to be able to opt into a government that coincides with the type of governance they want - not have governance imposed upon you, which is what the State does. You are born between latitude X and longitude Y, and you are given a SSN and automatically subjected to the authority of the State which has a monopoly on force. That is bad. Government is good. Government is necessary. The "But people would be killing each other everywhere!" argument is so frustrating.
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FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/5/2012 3:19:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
When I was real into that stuff I actually refused to support any government organized leftism.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
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5/5/2012 7:25:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Sorry, I'm one of those people who cannot really fathom the destruction of the state without the destruction of the government. I do not know how the absence of the state automatically makes the government The Perfect Democracy.