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Civil Unions as alternative to Gay Marriage

1dustpelt
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4/25/2012 8:43:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
That way, gays can have the benefits of marriage without marriages being changed.
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Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/25/2012 8:45:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I agree with Civil Unions being promoted as a good compromise
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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4/25/2012 8:45:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 8:43:01 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
That way, gays can have the benefits of marriage without marriages being changed.

Civil unions and mariages don't have the same rights, first off.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

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WriterSelbe
Posts: 410
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4/25/2012 8:48:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 8:45:33 PM, M.Torres wrote:
At 4/25/2012 8:43:01 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
That way, gays can have the benefits of marriage without marriages being changed.

Civil unions and mariages don't have the same rights, first off.

Wait. What's the difference between the rights?
Contra
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4/25/2012 8:54:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 8:45:33 PM, M.Torres wrote:
At 4/25/2012 8:43:01 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
That way, gays can have the benefits of marriage without marriages being changed.

Civil unions and mariages don't have the same rights, first off.

Truth is, I don't support gay marriage. I think Civil Unions are good enough. Now, would I be vehemently opposing gay marriage legislation in my state, no. I just don't care much about this issue. Now, Universal Health care is an issue that needs to be discussed more instead of petty issues.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
lewis20
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4/25/2012 9:01:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Obvious solution is to get the govt. out of marriage in the first place.
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Contra
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4/25/2012 9:07:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 9:01:16 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Obvious solution is to get the govt. out of marriage in the first place.

But then people could marry their cats, which is just stupid.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
DanT
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4/25/2012 9:21:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 9:07:21 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:01:16 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Obvious solution is to get the govt. out of marriage in the first place.

But then people could marry their cats, which is just stupid.

Do you know of any priest, who believes that a wedding between "man and beast" is not "an abomination under the eyes of the lord"?
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
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4/25/2012 9:27:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 9:01:16 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Obvious solution is to get the govt. out of marriage in the first place.

This. Plenty of churches accept homosexuality, so the left should be all for it. Hell, back when I was congregational the church had a gay choir director, and his boyfriend would play the harp for the church on Christmas eve. (I know, gayest couple on earth)
The catholic school I went to, when I was little, also had a gay teacher, who taught religion.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/25/2012 9:29:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 9:21:38 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:07:21 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:01:16 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Obvious solution is to get the govt. out of marriage in the first place.

But then people could marry their cats, which is just stupid.

Do you know of any priest, who believes that a wedding between "man and beast" is not "an abomination under the eyes of the lord"?

A better example, people marry their cows because they are Hindu.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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4/25/2012 9:38:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 9:29:55 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:21:38 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:07:21 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:01:16 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Obvious solution is to get the govt. out of marriage in the first place.

But then people could marry their cats, which is just stupid.

Do you know of any priest, who believes that a wedding between "man and beast" is not "an abomination under the eyes of the lord"?

A better example, people marry their cows because they are Hindu.

I thought your mother was spoken for. :P JK

All joking aside, why shouldn't one be allowed to wed an animal who they are in love with. If they are soul mates, and their religion says it's OK, than it should be allowed. The still have to follow laws regarding bestiality, provided the state has laws on the subject.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/25/2012 9:41:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 9:38:51 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:29:55 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:21:38 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:07:21 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:01:16 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Obvious solution is to get the govt. out of marriage in the first place.

But then people could marry their cats, which is just stupid.

Do you know of any priest, who believes that a wedding between "man and beast" is not "an abomination under the eyes of the lord"?

A better example, people marry their cows because they are Hindu.

I thought your mother was spoken for. :P JK

All joking aside, why shouldn't one be allowed to wed an animal who they are in love with. If they are soul mates, and their religion says it's OK, than it should be allowed. The still have to follow laws regarding bestiality, provided the state has laws on the subject.

And laws regarding adultery and divorce would be determined by who?
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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4/25/2012 9:43:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 9:07:21 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:01:16 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Obvious solution is to get the govt. out of marriage in the first place.

But then people could marry their cats, which is just stupid.

You cannot make a binding contract (marriage) with a nonrational being.
DDO Vice President

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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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4/25/2012 9:44:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 9:41:17 PM, Contra wrote:
And laws regarding adultery and divorce would be determined by who?

What laws you goddamn racketeer?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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4/25/2012 9:46:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 9:29:55 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:21:38 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:07:21 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:01:16 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Obvious solution is to get the govt. out of marriage in the first place.

But then people could marry their cats, which is just stupid.

Do you know of any priest, who believes that a wedding between "man and beast" is not "an abomination under the eyes of the lord"?

A better example, people marry their cows because they are Hindu.

Hindus don't marry their cows. They might marry a tree, but that is just as a remedy to a defect in their birth chart. (Only when the birth chart shows the death of the first husband, or sometimes divorce ).
Contra
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4/25/2012 9:48:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 9:43:07 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:07:21 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:01:16 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Obvious solution is to get the govt. out of marriage in the first place.

But then people could marry their cats, which is just stupid.

You cannot make a binding contract (marriage) with a nonrational being.

But if the contract is not upheld by the government, they could establish a strange made up religion to marry anything with no passion, degrading the sanctity of marriage.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Cermank
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4/25/2012 9:51:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 9:48:37 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:43:07 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:07:21 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:01:16 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Obvious solution is to get the govt. out of marriage in the first place.

But then people could marry their cats, which is just stupid.

You cannot make a binding contract (marriage) with a nonrational being.

But if the contract is not upheld by the government, they could establish a strange made up religion to marry anything with no passion, degrading the sanctity of marriage.

Why would a person marry anything with no passion? Are you implying that people don't marry cats because it's illegal?
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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4/25/2012 9:52:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 9:48:37 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:43:07 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:07:21 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:01:16 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Obvious solution is to get the govt. out of marriage in the first place.

But then people could marry their cats, which is just stupid.

You cannot make a binding contract (marriage) with a nonrational being.

But if the contract is not upheld by the government, they could establish a strange made up religion to marry anything with no passion, degrading the sanctity of marriage.

"Degrade the sanctity of marriage" is not a cognizable harm, and if it were, involving the government would degrade it far more than some idiot who has a legally meaningless ceremony with his cat.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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4/25/2012 9:53:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 9:48:37 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:43:07 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:07:21 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:01:16 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Obvious solution is to get the govt. out of marriage in the first place.

But then people could marry their cats, which is just stupid.

You cannot make a binding contract (marriage) with a nonrational being.

But if the contract is not upheld by the government, they could establish a strange made up religion to marry anything with no passion, degrading the sanctity of marriage.

You're sounding an awful lot like a conservative 0.0

good Lord, a liberal 16kadams and conservative contra, what is this world coming to? :P

The way I see it, marriage is only distinct from other forms of contracts by its religious aspect, in which the Government has no right to intervene. If a Church doesn't want to recognize same sex marriage, the government shouldn't make them, and if a church wants to perform same sex marriages then the government has no right to intervene either.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/25/2012 9:55:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 9:52:11 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:48:37 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:43:07 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:07:21 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:01:16 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Obvious solution is to get the govt. out of marriage in the first place.

But then people could marry their cats, which is just stupid.

You cannot make a binding contract (marriage) with a nonrational being.

But if the contract is not upheld by the government, they could establish a strange made up religion to marry anything with no passion, degrading the sanctity of marriage.

"Degrade the sanctity of marriage" is not a cognizable harm, and if it were, involving the government would degrade it far more than some idiot who has a legally meaningless ceremony with his cat.

I don't see how it would.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/25/2012 9:57:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 9:53:23 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:48:37 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:43:07 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:07:21 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:01:16 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Obvious solution is to get the govt. out of marriage in the first place.

But then people could marry their cats, which is just stupid.

You cannot make a binding contract (marriage) with a nonrational being.

But if the contract is not upheld by the government, they could establish a strange made up religion to marry anything with no passion, degrading the sanctity of marriage.

You're sounding an awful lot like a conservative 0.0


good Lord, a liberal 16kadams and conservative contra, what is this world coming to? :P

Conservative Contra ... I kind of like the double "con" part

Regardless, AHHHHHHHH NOOOO

The way I see it, marriage is only distinct from other forms of contracts by its religious aspect, in which the Government has no right to intervene. If a Church doesn't want to recognize same sex marriage, the government shouldn't make them, and if a church wants to perform same sex marriages then the government has no right to intervene either.

Okay Thett you convinced me.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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4/25/2012 10:00:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 9:55:20 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:52:11 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:48:37 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:43:07 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:07:21 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:01:16 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Obvious solution is to get the govt. out of marriage in the first place.

But then people could marry their cats, which is just stupid.

You cannot make a binding contract (marriage) with a nonrational being.

But if the contract is not upheld by the government, they could establish a strange made up religion to marry anything with no passion, degrading the sanctity of marriage.

"Degrade the sanctity of marriage" is not a cognizable harm, and if it were, involving the government would degrade it far more than some idiot who has a legally meaningless ceremony with his cat.

I don't see how it would.
You're turning it from an institution about freely chosen love to one of bureaucracy.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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4/26/2012 1:24:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 9:01:16 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Obvious solution is to get the govt. out of marriage in the first place.

If only, if only.

But that simply is not feasible when you look at America's history of regulating marriage, religious or not. There is no viable political means of doing that past full-out revolution.
Wnope
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4/26/2012 1:24:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/25/2012 9:38:51 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:29:55 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:21:38 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:07:21 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:01:16 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Obvious solution is to get the govt. out of marriage in the first place.

But then people could marry their cats, which is just stupid.

Do you know of any priest, who believes that a wedding between "man and beast" is not "an abomination under the eyes of the lord"?

A better example, people marry their cows because they are Hindu.

I thought your mother was spoken for. :P JK

All joking aside, why shouldn't one be allowed to wed an animal who they are in love with. If they are soul mates, and their religion says it's OK, than it should be allowed. The still have to follow laws regarding bestiality, provided the state has laws on the subject.

How does an animal give consent?
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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4/26/2012 1:47:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/26/2012 1:24:49 AM, Wnope wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:38:51 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:29:55 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:21:38 PM, DanT wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:07:21 PM, Contra wrote:
At 4/25/2012 9:01:16 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Obvious solution is to get the govt. out of marriage in the first place.

But then people could marry their cats, which is just stupid.

Do you know of any priest, who believes that a wedding between "man and beast" is not "an abomination under the eyes of the lord"?

A better example, people marry their cows because they are Hindu.

I thought your mother was spoken for. :P JK

All joking aside, why shouldn't one be allowed to wed an animal who they are in love with. If they are soul mates, and their religion says it's OK, than it should be allowed. The still have to follow laws regarding bestiality, provided the state has laws on the subject.

How does an animal give consent?

Some animals can communicate w/ humans.
Open borders debate:
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Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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4/26/2012 1:49:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't understand. If marriage is outside the state, then why does it matter who they marry? There's no benefit. It's the equivalent of moral tyranny, to be honest: when a group can control what others can and cannot do.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

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Veridas
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4/26/2012 2:56:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Accepting Civil Liberties as a favourable alternative to marriage is a bit like going to a restaurant, ordering a steak but being given tofu because the cook is a vegan. Sure if you dress it up right and add the right seasoning it'll look and maybe even taste like steak, but it won't be steak.
What fresh dickery is the internet up to today?
Lordknukle
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4/26/2012 3:17:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Marriage is a religious institution. The big question is why did the State get involved in a religious institution in the first place?

The ideal solution is to get the State out of marriage and let religious institutions (or secular institutions) let people marry based on their own set of morals and ideals. Marriage would be a religious voluntary contract.

However, if preserving the status quo, then gay marriage should not be allowed since marriage is a religious institution. Unless of course if thr Church changes their views but that is about as likely as Charlesb becoming pro free-market and 000ike being tolerable to talk with.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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4/26/2012 6:42:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Marriage is not a religious institution; it is a social institution that in Christian societies has been dominated by religion. Marriage was not created by Christianity; the concept existed in many ancient civilizations across the world. Pick up a copy of the Illiad or the Odyssey; marriage is discussed in both of those works and was regarded as a social institution. Not all individuals in our society are Christian, so we cannot use Christian laws when we decided whether or not they can marry. If marriage is a social institution, and not a religious one, the government ought to be granting equal rights to all individual.