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James Carter

Princess
Posts: 14
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7/28/2009 10:48:27 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
"At its most repugnant, the belief that women must be subjugated to the wishes of men excuses slavery, violence, forced prostitution, genital mutilation and national laws that omit rape as a crime. But it also costs many millions of girls and women control over their own bodies and lives, and continues to deny them fair access to education, health, employment and influence within their own communities."
- President Carter (after leaving a misogynist church in 2009)

I admire him for being the only U.S. president other than Jefferson to denounce mainstream religion
PervRat
Posts: 963
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7/30/2009 5:32:52 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/28/2009 10:48:27 PM, Princess wrote:
"At its most repugnant, the belief that women must be subjugated to the wishes of men excuses slavery, violence, forced prostitution, genital mutilation and national laws that omit rape as a crime. But it also costs many millions of girls and women control over their own bodies and lives, and continues to deny them fair access to education, health, employment and influence within their own communities."
- President Carter (after leaving a misogynist church in 2009)

I admire him for being the only U.S. president other than Jefferson to denounce mainstream religion

Sadly, no one who denounces mainstream religion without later apologizing for such a denouncement will get very far in the U.S.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/30/2009 5:42:03 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
From wikipedia:

James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr. (born October 1, 1924), was the 39th President of the United States from 1977 to 1981 and the recipient of the 2002 Nobel Peace Prize. Prior to becoming president, Carter served two terms in the Georgia Senate followed by the governorship of the state of Georgia, from 1971 to 1975.[1]

Or were you attempting to make a more philosophical point?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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7/30/2009 5:46:34 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/28/2009 10:48:27 PM, Princess wrote:
"At its most repugnant, the belief that women must be subjugated to the wishes of men excuses slavery, violence, forced prostitution, genital mutilation and national laws that omit rape as a crime. But it also costs many millions of girls and women control over their own bodies and lives, and continues to deny them fair access to education, health, employment and influence within their own communities."
- President Carter (after leaving a misogynist church in 2009)

I admire him for being the only U.S. president other than Jefferson to denounce mainstream religion

This seems to be dismissing the pro life movement as sexist. It also seems to be general bologna, as sexism has been entirely reversed within the last 50 years.

laws that omit rape as a crime
Where?

And, most important of all, where is religion denounced in that quote?
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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7/30/2009 6:01:07 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
The belief that women must be subjugated to the wishes of men
is not "mainstream" religion. Further, "mainstream" religion does not
excuse slavery, violence, forced prostitution, genital mutilation and national laws that omit rape as a crime.
Further, non-mainstream religion (cults)
cost many hundreds of girls and women control over their own bodies and lives.
There will always be sexists that
continue to deny women fair access to education, health, employment and influence within their own communities;
however, they are not found in mainstream religion.
- President Carter
has no idea what he is talking about, apparently especially when
(leaving a misogynist church in 2009)
I do not congratulate him for being the only U.S. president to denounce sexism and having no idea what is going on in mainstream religion.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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7/30/2009 6:11:38 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/30/2009 5:46:34 PM, wjmelements wrote:
This seems to be dismissing the pro life movement as sexist. It also seems to be general bologna, as sexism has been entirely reversed within the last 50 years.

I wouldn't say "entirely" reversed, though it was getting there. It is starting to level off now.

Where?

I don't think it was meant to relate to US laws, but there is many countries where rape is considered legal under the 'right circumstances.' There is a quick overview of Iranian laws here: http://www.iran-bulletin.org...
Biased, maybe, but rightfully frightening.

Same with genital mutilation and etc. Countries do allow for such atrocities based on religious grounds - circumcision is completely legal, for instance.

And, most important of all, where is religion denounced in that quote?

It was a generalized quote, maybe intended to infer the denouncing of religion, though I don't see a direct reference. Maybe because it was directed toward a "misogynist church."
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/30/2009 6:13:34 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/30/2009 5:43:44 PM, wjmelements wrote:
I've never heard him called James.

I very rarely hear wealth called a good thing. I can easily see how someone would never hear it. Yet this does not make wealth evil.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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7/30/2009 6:15:02 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/30/2009 6:11:38 PM, Volkov wrote:
It was a generalized quote, maybe intended to infer the denouncing of religion, though I don't see a direct reference. Maybe because it was directed toward a "misogynist church."

Misogyny isn't mainstream.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/30/2009 6:17:45 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Btw, I officially declare my previous post hogwash, and he is henceforth to be known as JimmyJames von Billybob Carter.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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7/30/2009 6:21:07 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/30/2009 6:15:02 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Misogyny isn't mainstream.

Lol. Really? I could have sworn a couple of countries still don't allow women to vote, yet have a majority population that is of a "mainstream" religion.

You're coming at this from a Western perspective, where misogyny, while it still exists, is definitely more apart of a fringe element now. But remember - Western society doesn't make up a majority of the human population. Think of China, where it is considered a normal practice to have an abortion if your child is found to be female. Think of Iran, where.. well, I already posted that.

Just because it isn't mainstream here, doesn't mean it isn't mainstream elsewhere.

Besides, Carter never said anything about the "mainstream", nor did I - the OP did.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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7/30/2009 6:25:00 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
The OP claimed Carter was attacking the mainstream here. And Carter doesn't seem to be talking about mainstream religion at all; he seems to be dismissing mysogyny (spell check?).
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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7/30/2009 6:34:54 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/30/2009 6:25:00 PM, wjmelements wrote:
The OP claimed Carter was attacking the mainstream here. And Carter doesn't seem to be talking about mainstream religion at all; he seems to be dismissing misogyny* (spell check?).

Indeed. The OP must have taken it to mean the mainstream though, which means she probably has a bias against mainstream religion.

Though, to be fair to the OP, she is right on certain accounts. In Western society, good Catholic families are still considered ones where the wife stays home and raises as many kids as possible. Women still can't be Catholic priests or take birth control. People like Pat Robertson - arguably a mainstream figure - believe that the feminist movement was intended to promote witchcraft, murder children, and make women become lesbians. Lesbians - most mainstream believers, even in Western society, become awkward and disturbed at the notion of one near them, let alone "homosexuals" in general.

Even though society progresses past these ideas in mainstream thought, the religion still carries them - even if they aren't practiced all the time.
Princess
Posts: 14
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7/30/2009 7:36:37 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/30/2009 6:25:00 PM, wjmelements wrote:
The OP claimed Carter was attacking the mainstream here. And Carter doesn't seem to be talking about mainstream religion at all; he seems to be dismissing mysogyny (spell check?).

The quote I provided was an excerpt of his explanation of why he left the church he used to attend. James Carter is formally titled James Carter, therefore I will address him as James Carter.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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7/30/2009 7:43:34 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/30/2009 7:36:37 PM, Princess wrote:
The quote I provided was an excerpt of his explanation of why he left the church he used to attend. James Carter is formally titled James Carter, therefore I will address him as James Carter.

Queen Elizabeth is formally titled Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other realms and territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.

But, you don't see everyone referring to her as such.
regebro
Posts: 1,152
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7/31/2009 12:20:12 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/28/2009 10:48:27 PM, Princess wrote:
"At its most repugnant, the belief that women must be subjugated to the wishes of men excuses slavery, violence, forced prostitution, genital mutilation and national laws that omit rape as a crime. But it also costs many millions of girls and women control over their own bodies and lives, and continues to deny them fair access to education, health, employment and influence within their own communities."
- President Carter (after leaving a misogynist church in 2009)

I admire him for being the only U.S. president other than Jefferson to denounce mainstream religion

But did he really denounce mainstream religion? He only denounces misogynist religion. This is common, but I suspect he and people in general does not see it as mainstream. Or? Will people in the US, with it's string attachmenet to religion and church, in general agree that religion is misgynist? I doubt it.
So prove me wrong, then.
Princess
Posts: 14
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7/31/2009 6:50:23 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Christianity was built on the foundation of misogyny.
I am not denying the possibility of a god, I am only denying the religion.
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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7/31/2009 8:21:35 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/30/2009 6:13:34 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 7/30/2009 5:43:44 PM, wjmelements wrote:
I've never heard him called James.

I very rarely hear wealth called a good thing. I can easily see how someone would never hear it. Yet this does not make wealth evil.

No, but money is the root of all evil, as they say, and it is difficult to become wealthy without exploiting others: usually the workers who created the wealth through the sweat of their brows.

Otherwise, you can inherit wealth and keep all the cash for yourself like the Duke of Westminster or you can steal the money like Bernie Madoff did, or do both like Lord Black!

To be rich is not evil in itself but many of the world's wealthiest people are.
Visit the burglars' bulletin board: http://www.break-in-news.com...
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/31/2009 9:30:02 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/31/2009 8:21:35 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
At 7/30/2009 6:13:34 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 7/30/2009 5:43:44 PM, wjmelements wrote:
I've never heard him called James.

I very rarely hear wealth called a good thing. I can easily see how someone would never hear it. Yet this does not make wealth evil.

No, but money is the root of all evil, as they say, and it is difficult to become wealthy without exploiting others: usually the workers who created the wealth through the sweat of their brows.
Going from analogy to off topic are we? Meh, I'll bite.
The sweat of the brow creates the standard of living of a medieval peasant. Anything beyond that you get, if you work "by the sweat of your brow," is a consequence of the employer's mind.

The one who damns money as the root of all evil damns the existence which is sustained by money as evil-- his own.


Otherwise, you can inherit wealth and keep all the cash for yourself like the Duke of Westminster or you can steal the money like Bernie Madoff did, or do both like Lord Black!
Inheritance is not possible without first someone earning it-- and inheriting money without deserving it does not help you much, indeed, it tends to destroy the fortune in question, slowly discouraging future bequeathments. Bernie Madoff did face the consequences of his actions-- the consequences of having so little respect for money as to steal it :)

To be rich is not evil in itself but many of the world's wealthiest people are.
They cannot last that way.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
regebro
Posts: 1,152
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7/31/2009 11:37:54 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/31/2009 6:50:23 AM, Princess wrote:
Christianity was built on the foundation of misogyny.

No it was not. However, misogyny was a part of the society that spawned christianity and judaism. Claiming that it is a foundation is a very different thing.

I am not denying the possibility of a god, I am only denying the religion.

I'm denying both. :)
So prove me wrong, then.
ccstate4peat
Posts: 2,022
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7/31/2009 1:36:27 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
He's the second worst president in the history of the country behind Andrew Jackson. He only reason he deserves his own thread is to bash him.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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7/31/2009 2:01:42 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/31/2009 12:20:12 AM, regebro wrote:

But did he really denounce mainstream religion? He only denounces misogynist religion.

"Women and girls have been discriminated against for too long in a twisted interpretation of the word of God.
I HAVE been a practicing Christian all my life and a deacon and Bible teacher for many years. My faith is a source of strength and comfort to me, as religious beliefs are to hundreds of millions of people around the world. So my decision to sever my ties with the Southern Baptist Convention, after six decades, was painful and difficult. It was, however, an unavoidable decision when the convention's leaders, quoting a few carefully selected Bible verses and claiming that Eve was created second to Adam and was responsible for original sin, ordained that women must be "subservient" to their husbands and prohibited from serving as deacons, pastors or chaplains in the military service.
This view that women are somehow inferior to men is not restricted to one religion or belief. Women are prevented from playing a full and equal role in many faiths. Nor, tragically, does its influence stop at the walls of the church, mosque, synagogue or temple. This discrimination, unjustifiably attributed to a Higher Authority, has provided a reason or excuse for the deprivation of woman's equal rights across the world for centuries.
At its most repugnant, the belief that women must be subjugated to the wishes of men excuses slavery, violence, forced prostitution, genital mutilation and national laws that omit rape as a crime. But it also costs many millions of girls and women control over their own bodies and lives, and continues to deny them fair access to education, health, employment and influence within their own communities."
regebro
Posts: 1,152
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7/31/2009 2:31:42 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/31/2009 2:01:42 PM, Puck wrote:
At 7/31/2009 12:20:12 AM, regebro wrote:

But did he really denounce mainstream religion? He only denounces misogynist religion.

"Women and girls have been discriminated against for too long in a twisted interpretation of the word of God.
I HAVE been a practicing Christian all my life and a deacon and Bible teacher for many years. My faith is a source of strength and comfort to me, as religious beliefs are to hundreds of millions of people around the world. So my decision to sever my ties with the Southern Baptist Convention, after six decades, was painful and difficult. It was, however, an unavoidable decision when the convention's leaders, quoting a few carefully selected Bible verses and claiming that Eve was created second to Adam and was responsible for original sin, ordained that women must be "subservient" to their husbands and prohibited from serving as deacons, pastors or chaplains in the military service.
This view that women are somehow inferior to men is not restricted to one religion or belief. Women are prevented from playing a full and equal role in many faiths. Nor, tragically, does its influence stop at the walls of the church, mosque, synagogue or temple. This discrimination, unjustifiably attributed to a Higher Authority, has provided a reason or excuse for the deprivation of woman's equal rights across the world for centuries.
At its most repugnant, the belief that women must be subjugated to the wishes of men excuses slavery, violence, forced prostitution, genital mutilation and national laws that omit rape as a crime. But it also costs many millions of girls and women control over their own bodies and lives, and continues to deny them fair access to education, health, employment and influence within their own communities."

All very well, but my questions remain: Would the people in the mainstream religion see this as an attack on mainstream religion? If not, then it isn't, becuase he sure as heck never uses the word.
So prove me wrong, then.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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7/31/2009 4:28:02 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/31/2009 6:50:23 AM, Princess wrote:
Christianity was built on the foundation of misogyny.

Christianity was built on the teachings of Jesus... The foundation of misogyny is believed to be gynophobia...

I am very interested in hearing how Christianity was built on gynophobia.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
PervRat
Posts: 963
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7/31/2009 4:35:57 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/31/2009 4:28:02 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 7/31/2009 6:50:23 AM, Princess wrote:
Christianity was built on the foundation of misogyny.

Christianity was built on the teachings of Jesus... The foundation of misogyny is believed to be gynophobia...

"Women, obey your husbands."

Female inservitude and inferiority to men, right there in the holy book. Defying a husband's demand for sex or other inservitude is against the Holy Book and thus against God.

For that matter, a child betraying their parent by, say, going to a police officer for being raped is also violating the word of God for the commandment "Children, obey your parents."

Try reading your Bible. Raping your wife or children is fine, they are not permitted to defy you!