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The Jobs "Victory"

Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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5/7/2012 7:26:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Sure, unemployment is going down. 8.6%-->8.3%-->8.2%, now 8.1%. Let's forget the fact that only 110000 jobs were added in April while 362000 stopped looking for jobs in April . Also, let's forget that the real unemployment rate is 16%. Let's also not count the part-time workers who are looking for full time jobs. The unemployment rate could be as high as 30%.

What is the effect of unemployment. Using just the real unemployment rate of 16%, we are operating at 5 trillion dollars below our GDP potential.

So yeah Dems, we are really moving forward with the economy (yeah, we're moving forward... Off a cliff).
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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5/7/2012 7:32:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://rightoffacliff.com...

Is it preferable to an economic depression? I'd say yes. Besides, economic confidence is much higher than it was in 2008... I can remember then it felt like the end of the world.

Point being, we need more Center-Left economic policies to improve our economy, somewhat less regulation, more alternative energy investment, all of the above energy solution, free trade, national health insurance, and social programs which gives everybody, even the poorest a shot at opportunity and the American Dream. Also simplify the national government, i.e. "reinvent government".
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Ron-Paul
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5/7/2012 7:36:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 7:32:13 PM, Contra wrote:
http://rightoffacliff.com...

Is it preferable to an economic depression? I'd say yes. Besides, economic confidence is much higher than it was in 2008... I can remember then it felt like the end of the world.

Maybe. Except we're going back into one. Economic confiedence may be high, but let's ask the people who stopped looking for jobs. I am sure there is no change in their opinion.
Point being, we need more Center-Left economic policies to improve our economy, somewhat less regulation, more alternative energy investment, all of the above energy solution, free trade, national health insurance, and social programs which gives everybody, even the poorest a shot at opportunity and the American Dream. Also simplify the national government, i.e. "reinvent government".

Point being, we need to flatten the tax rates and reduce the rates to a level approaching ~4-5%. We need to drasticly reduce the amount of regulation, start drilling for oil in our own territory, free trade, no national health insurance, and an end to social programs, so that the country does not go bankrupt. Also, simplify the national government so that its less deficit-running, useless, and costly.

You obviously did not read that the real unemployment rate is still about as high as in 2008.
Contra
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5/7/2012 7:53:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 7:36:43 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 5/7/2012 7:32:13 PM, Contra wrote:
http://rightoffacliff.com...

Is it preferable to an economic depression? I'd say yes. Besides, economic confidence is much higher than it was in 2008... I can remember then it felt like the end of the world.

Maybe. Except we're going back into one. Economic confiedence may be high, but let's ask the people who stopped looking for jobs. I am sure there is no change in their opinion.
Point being, we need more Center-Left economic policies to improve our economy, somewhat less regulation, more alternative energy investment, all of the above energy solution, free trade, national health insurance, and social programs which gives everybody, even the poorest a shot at opportunity and the American Dream. Also simplify the national government, i.e. "reinvent government".

Point being, we need to flatten the tax rates and reduce the rates to a level approaching ~4-5%. We need to drasticly reduce the amount of regulation, start drilling for oil in our own territory, free trade, no national health insurance, and an end to social programs, so that the country does not go bankrupt. Also, simplify the national government so that its less deficit-running, useless, and costly.

With free trade, simplifying government, and reducing the amount of regulation (to an extent) I agree.

However, with such as low flat tax rate, you face a problem. Food and drug quality inspections, clean air, clean water, civil rights protections, Medicare, education assistance, our Federal Court system, and many other national initiatives would have to be eliminated.

This is not a stretch. An indpendent assessment concluded that with the Paul Ryan budget, by 2050 the federal government would "largely disappear" besides national defense. Many of the federal functions we see today are beneficial to our lives.

With social programs that are structured well, everybody has a chance to succeed. Since many of America's poor are born in pathetic conditions, and cannot realistically see a shot at success, to get them that shot at the American Dream requires opportunity-driven initiatives to 1) level the playing field, 2) ensure broad prosperity, have 3) Smart Government where prosperity is accessible to all, and 4) make sure that have a Stronger Future with fair opportunity for all. Europe has a welfare state that allows people a chance to succeed, and as a result the poorest have greater economic mobility/ opportunity than we currently do.

With national health insurance, it is just common sense to put it harshly. The free market fails in health insurance. Why is this? Because with the huge complexity of health plans, a company has an incentive to deny certain (many) procedures to maximize profits. Health insurance, with many loopholes to improve the corporation's profit, cannot be sold like bread. This is why universal healthcare, which all other advanced nations have is so successful. Centralized administration, streamlined, electronic yet confidential information, with a brilliantly simple system of financing that is effective, efficient, yet equitable, and makes sure that people have privacy in medical care and the right to choose their doctor just solidifies our values of our right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Also, health insurance companies list expenses for health care as "operating losses", so this proves my point that companies are out for your money, not protecting our lives.

You obviously did not read that the real unemployment rate is still about as high as in 2008.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,333
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5/7/2012 8:16:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 7:53:22 PM, Contra wrote:
With national health insurance, it is just common sense to put it harshly. The free market fails in health insurance. Why is this? Because with the huge complexity of health plans, a company has an incentive to deny certain (many) procedures to maximize profits.

No no no.

This is why it succeeds, because the reality is that we most of us will never live to see 100 and most of us will spend 75-85% of our entire lifetime history of healthcare expenses in the last 5 years of our natural life. Guess what? someone has to make a call as to when pumping money for one more extra year of life has to be cut so that money can be saved to grant someone else 30 years of life. Government fails to do this because it often treats both cases the same; and when it does try to discriminate, it does so extremely inefficiently.
Contra
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5/7/2012 8:27:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 8:16:47 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/7/2012 7:53:22 PM, Contra wrote:
With national health insurance, it is just common sense to put it harshly. The free market fails in health insurance. Why is this? Because with the huge complexity of health plans, a company has an incentive to deny certain (many) procedures to maximize profits.

No no no.

This is why it succeeds, because the reality is that we most of us will never live to see 100 and most of us will spend 75-85% of our entire lifetime history of healthcare expenses in the last 5 years of our natural life. Guess what? someone has to make a call as to when pumping money for one more extra year of life has to be cut so that money can be saved to grant someone else 30 years of life. Government fails to do this because it often treats both cases the same; and when it does try to discriminate, it does so extremely inefficiently.

Universal health care would save billions. I have heard of a proposal that an individual would decide whether or not they would allow themselves in the future to have certain treatments to save health care costs, but I can't remember exactly.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
thett3
Posts: 14,378
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5/7/2012 8:38:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 8:27:11 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/7/2012 8:16:47 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/7/2012 7:53:22 PM, Contra wrote:
With national health insurance, it is just common sense to put it harshly. The free market fails in health insurance. Why is this? Because with the huge complexity of health plans, a company has an incentive to deny certain (many) procedures to maximize profits.

No no no.

This is why it succeeds, because the reality is that we most of us will never live to see 100 and most of us will spend 75-85% of our entire lifetime history of healthcare expenses in the last 5 years of our natural life. Guess what? someone has to make a call as to when pumping money for one more extra year of life has to be cut so that money can be saved to grant someone else 30 years of life. Government fails to do this because it often treats both cases the same; and when it does try to discriminate, it does so extremely inefficiently.

Universal health care would save billions. I have heard of a proposal that an individual would decide whether or not they would allow themselves in the future to have certain treatments to save health care costs, but I can't remember exactly.

Lmfao. You can't possibly believe that any government can allocate resources better than the private sector. That's just flat out stupid.
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: thett was right
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/7/2012 8:50:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 7:32:13 PM, Contra wrote:
Point being, we need more Center-Left economic policies to improve our economy,
No, you don't.

somewhat less regulation, more alternative energy investment, all of the above energy solution, free trade,
Are you serious? You're calling those left economic policies?

national health insurance, and social programs which gives everybody, even the poorest a shot at opportunity and the American Dream. Also simplify the national government, i.e. "reinvent government".
If you want less poor people, consider supporting right-wing policies.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,333
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5/7/2012 8:54:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 8:27:11 PM, Contra wrote:
Universal health care would save billions. I have heard of a proposal that an individual would decide whether or not they would allow themselves in the future to have certain treatments to save health care costs, but I can't remember exactly.

Actually, that is a crappy mark of an effective healthcare system. Who gives a rats as$ if you save billions of dollars when less people who could be granted 30 more years of life are held hostage by the few 90+ year olds clawing for that extra month on life support. Government has absolutely no clue on how to efficiently pull the plug on healthcare.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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5/7/2012 8:57:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What I find interesting is that Contra has this bizarre belief that the government can protect civil rights. Please tell me about this.

Because, it's my understanding that the government can merely take them away, or regulate them until they're no longer actual liberties.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/7/2012 9:00:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 8:57:36 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
What I find interesting is that Contra has this bizarre belief that the government can protect civil rights. Please tell me about this.

Because, it's my understanding that the government can merely take them away, or regulate them until they're no longer actual liberties.
I slightly disagree. Government can be an efficient force in securing rights and lives, and giving us freedom from things. I think Marilyn vos Savant has an excellent quote on this: "What is the essence of America? Finding and maintaining that perfect, delicate balance between freedom 'to' and freedom 'from.'"
DetectableNinja
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5/7/2012 9:07:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 9:00:47 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/7/2012 8:57:36 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
What I find interesting is that Contra has this bizarre belief that the government can protect civil rights. Please tell me about this.

Because, it's my understanding that the government can merely take them away, or regulate them until they're no longer actual liberties.
I slightly disagree. Government can be an efficient force in securing rights and lives, and giving us freedom from things. I think Marilyn vos Savant has an excellent quote on this: "What is the essence of America? Finding and maintaining that perfect, delicate balance between freedom 'to' and freedom 'from.'"

I suppose. But it's a VERY VERY VERY delicate balance.

I find the liberal and conservative versions of protecting freedoms as the most restrictive, because the definition of what a right/freedom is can become a slippery slope. It seems to me that both take not liberty as the default, whereas I contend that liberty, or the statement "you are free to" should be the default.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
DetectableNinja
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5/7/2012 9:13:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 9:12:03 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
government is still horrible at protecting the common man 'from' government.

That.

I find it interesting that a government is restricted basically by itself, and that there really isn't much recourse if they violate that restriction.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,333
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5/7/2012 10:14:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Universal Healthcare is a very misleading political buzzword. There is no society, and there will never be a society that will put a 90 year old chronic smoker looking for a heart transplant on the same priority as a non-smoking 20 year old. Healthcare will never be Universally Equally available because we all are different and have different medical needs and society has different needs as well. The myth of equality in all things, while a great tool for those in power, does very little in actuality for the common man.

From Orwell's Animal Farm-
"All animals are equal but some are more equal than others."
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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5/8/2012 7:38:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 8:38:48 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 5/7/2012 8:27:11 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/7/2012 8:16:47 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/7/2012 7:53:22 PM, Contra wrote:
With national health insurance, it is just common sense to put it harshly. The free market fails in health insurance. Why is this? Because with the huge complexity of health plans, a company has an incentive to deny certain (many) procedures to maximize profits.

No no no.

This is why it succeeds, because the reality is that we most of us will never live to see 100 and most of us will spend 75-85% of our entire lifetime history of healthcare expenses in the last 5 years of our natural life. Guess what? someone has to make a call as to when pumping money for one more extra year of life has to be cut so that money can be saved to grant someone else 30 years of life. Government fails to do this because it often treats both cases the same; and when it does try to discriminate, it does so extremely inefficiently.

Universal health care would save billions. I have heard of a proposal that an individual would decide whether or not they would allow themselves in the future to have certain treatments to save health care costs, but I can't remember exactly.

Lmfao. You can't possibly believe that any government can allocate resources better than the private sector. That's just flat out stupid.

In health care it is just reality. Administration costs 2-6% or 22-30% of total spending are the differences, with goverment administration costs being the former.

What I find interesting is that Contra has this bizarre belief that the government can protect civil rights. Please tell me about this.

Civil Rights Act
Voting Rights Act

I don't really get what you are asking, people are endowed with their rights by their creator, and deserve civil rights and civil liberties, and the government should assure these rights for the greater good. Consequently, sometimes we should sacrifice for the greater good (taxes), but nonetheless, government should protect our rights.

Because, it's my understanding that the government can merely take them away, or regulate them until they're no longer actual liberties.

Government shouldn't take them away (get rid of NDAA, "PATRIOT" Act, etc.)

But, government should mostly leave people's rights alone, and have some involvement with our economic rights (taxes). But taxes overall help us help ourselves, so I see them as just.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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5/8/2012 7:39:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 8:50:52 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/7/2012 7:32:13 PM, Contra wrote:
Point being, we need more Center-Left economic policies to improve our economy,
No, you don't.

somewhat less regulation, more alternative energy investment, all of the above energy solution, free trade,
Are you serious? You're calling those left economic policies?

Those are mostly centrist.

national health insurance, and social programs which gives everybody, even the poorest a shot at opportunity and the American Dream. Also simplify the national government, i.e. "reinvent government".
If you want less poor people, consider supporting right-wing policies.

Right-wing policies just leave the poor in the cold, or prevent them largely from getting a real chance at success. The cheap, low skilled factory jobs are steadily becoming less available.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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5/8/2012 7:44:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/8/2012 7:39:59 AM, Contra wrote:
At 5/7/2012 8:50:52 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/7/2012 7:32:13 PM, Contra wrote:
Point being, we need more Center-Left economic policies to improve our economy,
No, you don't.

somewhat less regulation, more alternative energy investment, all of the above energy solution, free trade,
Are you serious? You're calling those left economic policies?

Those are mostly centrist.

I can guarantee you that your policies are hardcore liberal, not centrist.

national health insurance, and social programs which gives everybody, even the poorest a shot at opportunity and the American Dream. Also simplify the national government, i.e. "reinvent government".
If you want less poor people, consider supporting right-wing policies.

Right-wing policies just leave the poor in the cold, or prevent them largely from getting a real chance at success. The cheap, low skilled factory jobs are steadily becoming less available.

Right wing policies promote equality of opportunity and give everybody a fair chance to succeed via their own terms. Those who do not try do not deserve to succeed.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,333
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5/8/2012 8:38:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/8/2012 7:38:43 AM, Contra wrote:

In health care it is just reality. Administration costs 2-6% or 22-30% of total spending are the differences, with goverment administration costs being the former.


Saving more money DOES NOT MEAN the system will be able to allocate resources more efficiently. Read my post about that Contra.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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5/9/2012 7:39:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/8/2012 7:44:02 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 5/8/2012 7:39:59 AM, Contra wrote:
At 5/7/2012 8:50:52 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/7/2012 7:32:13 PM, Contra wrote:
Point being, we need more Center-Left economic policies to improve our economy,
No, you don't.

somewhat less regulation, more alternative energy investment, all of the above energy solution, free trade,
Are you serious? You're calling those left economic policies?

Those are mostly centrist.

I can guarantee you that your policies are hardcore liberal, not centrist.

Hardcore liberal is probably not the best word.

national health insurance, and social programs which gives everybody, even the poorest a shot at opportunity and the American Dream. Also simplify the national government, i.e. "reinvent government".
If you want less poor people, consider supporting right-wing policies.

Right-wing policies just leave the poor in the cold, or prevent them largely from getting a real chance at success. The cheap, low skilled factory jobs are steadily becoming less available.

Right wing policies promote equality of opportunity and give everybody a fair chance to succeed via their own terms. Those who do not try do not deserve to succeed.

Somewhat true. Right wing policies let everybody go out and see how they do, even if they are born with horrible social conditions. Center-Left policies let people go out and see what they do, and provide the tools to the poor/ disadvantaged so that they can educate themselves, and succeed off their own merits and hard work, and if they fail, they have no excuse.

Saving more money DOES NOT MEAN the system will be able to allocate resources more efficiently. Read my post about that Contra.

The doctors/ medical professionals would allolocate the resources, instead of a foreign, profit driven corporation full of bureaucrats who put profits ahead of life.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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5/9/2012 8:06:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 7:39:32 AM, Contra wrote:
At 5/8/2012 7:44:02 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 5/8/2012 7:39:59 AM, Contra wrote:
At 5/7/2012 8:50:52 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/7/2012 7:32:13 PM, Contra wrote:
Point being, we need more Center-Left economic policies to improve our economy,
No, you don't.

somewhat less regulation, more alternative energy investment, all of the above energy solution, free trade,
Are you serious? You're calling those left economic policies?

Those are mostly centrist.

I can guarantee you that your policies are hardcore liberal, not centrist.

Hardcore liberal is probably not the best word.

That's subjective.

national health insurance, and social programs which gives everybody, even the poorest a shot at opportunity and the American Dream. Also simplify the national government, i.e. "reinvent government".
If you want less poor people, consider supporting right-wing policies.

Right-wing policies just leave the poor in the cold, or prevent them largely from getting a real chance at success. The cheap, low skilled factory jobs are steadily becoming less available.

Right wing policies promote equality of opportunity and give everybody a fair chance to succeed via their own terms. Those who do not try do not deserve to succeed.

Somewhat true. Right wing policies let everybody go out and see how they do, even if they are born with horrible social conditions. Center-Left policies let people go out and see what they do, and provide the tools to the poor/ disadvantaged so that they can educate themselves, and succeed off their own merits and hard work, and if they fail, they have no excuse.

Right wing policies provide everybody with equality of opportunity, which lets everyone have an equal chance to succeed. The free market has been one of the only policies to uplift the poor and establish the middle class. Right wing policies provide huge incentives for success, unlike left wing policies, which punish success.

The ideological clash boils down to this one point: Should the government help those who are too lazy or stupid to help themselves?

A rational man would say no. Those that do not work should not expect reward.

Saving more money DOES NOT MEAN the system will be able to allocate resources more efficiently. Read my post about that Contra.

The doctors/ medical professionals would allolocate the resources, instead of a foreign, profit driven corporation full of bureaucrats who put profits ahead of life.

*Slaps head with a dictionary*
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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5/9/2012 2:59:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 8:06:00 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 5/9/2012 7:39:32 AM, Contra wrote:
At 5/8/2012 7:44:02 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 5/8/2012 7:39:59 AM, Contra wrote:
At 5/7/2012 8:50:52 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/7/2012 7:32:13 PM, Contra wrote:
Point being, we need more Center-Left economic policies to improve our economy,
No, you don't.

somewhat less regulation, more alternative energy investment, all of the above energy solution, free trade,
Are you serious? You're calling those left economic policies?

Those are mostly centrist.

I can guarantee you that your policies are hardcore liberal, not centrist.

Hardcore liberal is probably not the best word.

That's subjective.

From an independent point of view, the kind of policies I advocate are center-left. Not very far from the center for the most part. From the hardcore right, I look like a strong liberal. From the hard left, I look like a conservative.

national health insurance, and social programs which gives everybody, even the poorest a shot at opportunity and the American Dream. Also simplify the national government, i.e. "reinvent government".
If you want less poor people, consider supporting right-wing policies.

Right-wing policies just leave the poor in the cold, or prevent them largely from getting a real chance at success. The cheap, low skilled factory jobs are steadily becoming less available.

Right wing policies promote equality of opportunity and give everybody a fair chance to succeed via their own terms. Those who do not try do not deserve to succeed.

Somewhat true. Right wing policies let everybody go out and see how they do, even if they are born with horrible social conditions. Center-Left policies let people go out and see what they do, and provide the tools to the poor/ disadvantaged so that they can educate themselves, and succeed off their own merits and hard work, and if they fail, they have no excuse.

Right wing policies provide everybody with equality of opportunity, which lets everyone have an equal chance to succeed. The free market has been one of the only policies to uplift the poor and establish the middle class. Right wing policies provide huge incentives for success, unlike left wing policies, which punish success.

No, right-wing policies do not provide equal opportunity, or a level playing field. That's a center-left idea. Right wingers believe, such as yourself, that hard work can accomplish anything, and the state should stay mostly out. But when there are people born into poor families, pathetic schools, deteriorating homes, and drug and violence ridden communities, the state should provide a more level playing field so that people have a chance to succeed.

The ideological clash boils down to this one point: Should the government help those who are too lazy or stupid to help themselves?

As I said, many are born into the wrong circumstances. I favor only temporary welfare assistance, and oppose long term dependence. If people failed to use their circumstances, such as being lazy, and fail to use any assistance to improve themselves, screw them.

A rational man would say no. Those that do not work should not expect reward.

Saving more money DOES NOT MEAN the system will be able to allocate resources more efficiently. Read my post about that Contra.

The doctors/ medical professionals would allolocate the resources, instead of a foreign, profit driven corporation full of bureaucrats who put profits ahead of life.

*Slaps head with a dictionary*

*Looks at the actual facts*
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Greyparrot
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5/10/2012 9:48:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 7:39:32 AM, Contra wrote:
The doctors/ medical professionals would allolocate the resources, instead of a foreign, profit driven corporation full of bureaucrats who put profits ahead of life.

Sounds like a sweet system then if you're a doctor.

Doctor: Hay Obama, I need 500 thousand for this operation for my patient, no questions asked.

Obama: here ya go.