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Thoughts on the Buffet Rule

Ameriman
Posts: 622
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5/8/2012 3:58:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This is an interesting topic.

What is everyone's thoughts on this?

Me,

I think it's a gimmick masquerading as a serious solution to our deficits.

But, that is my opinion. What is everyone elses?
We spend too much our time measuring compassion for those in needs by measuring inputs. How much money are we spending? How many programs are we creating? But we are not focusing on outcomes. Are these programs working? Are people getting out of poverty?
-Paul Ryan
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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5/8/2012 4:19:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Buffet Rule is just left-wing "tax the rich" hyperbole for a benefit of $4 billion per year, which is nothing.

If they really want to put in place a balanced budget, some of those treasured welfare and SS programs have to go.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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5/8/2012 4:37:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Investment is sensitive to the capital gains tax rate, and the Buffett Rule doubles he tax on capital gains. In the 2008 campaign, Obama admitted that tax revenues would probably drop as a result. He said that social justice demands that it be done despite revenue losses.

There is nothing to it but class warfare pandering.
Ameriman
Posts: 622
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5/8/2012 4:43:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/8/2012 4:37:55 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
Investment is sensitive to the capital gains tax rate, and the Buffett Rule doubles he tax on capital gains. In the 2008 campaign, Obama admitted that tax revenues would probably drop as a result. He said that social justice demands that it be done despite revenue losses.

There is nothing to it but class warfare pandering.

Ah, I remember the hilarious moment when Obama declared that he would raise the capital gains tax "for purposes of fairness" even if it lowered revenues. It was kind of funny to hear that kind of thing from a candidate in a Democratic primary.

But, now as president, Barack Obama has already proposed three large increases to the capital gains tax, one of them (in Obamacare) has already passed and another is scheduled to take place the beginning of next year (expiring of Bush tax cuts).
We spend too much our time measuring compassion for those in needs by measuring inputs. How much money are we spending? How many programs are we creating? But we are not focusing on outcomes. Are these programs working? Are people getting out of poverty?
-Paul Ryan
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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5/9/2012 3:09:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/8/2012 4:19:43 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
The Buffet Rule is just left-wing "tax the rich" hyperbole for a benefit of $4 billion per year, which is nothing.

Agreed.

If they really want to put in place a balanced budget, some of those treasured welfare and SS programs have to go.

Social Security must be reformed. How so? Make it mandatory, and then make it so that it is only used for retirement purposes.

Investigate in alternative methods to fix the problem.

Welfare must be reformed, using effective, and proven social programs. Get rid of the treasured tax breaks that many currently enjoy, get rid of subsidies, get rid of some military spending, and get rid of some other unnecessary, ineffective, duplicate programs.

Reform and simplify the tax code.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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5/9/2012 3:13:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 3:09:08 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/8/2012 4:19:43 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
The Buffet Rule is just left-wing "tax the rich" hyperbole for a benefit of $4 billion per year, which is nothing.

Agreed.

If they really want to put in place a balanced budget, some of those treasured welfare and SS programs have to go.

Social Security must be reformed. How so? Make it mandatory, and then make it so that it is only used for retirement purposes.

Investigate in alternative methods to fix the problem.

Welfare must be reformed, using effective, and proven social programs. Get rid of the treasured tax breaks that many currently enjoy, get rid of subsidies, get rid of some military spending, and get rid of some other unnecessary, ineffective, duplicate programs.

Reform and simplify the tax code.

Wait. So, what you're saying is, the government should stop doing stuff that doesn't work, and do stuff that does work? Damn, that's genius. Why aren't we funding this? This "reform" stuff is like a goddamn silver bullet.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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5/9/2012 3:21:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 3:13:46 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:09:08 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/8/2012 4:19:43 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
The Buffet Rule is just left-wing "tax the rich" hyperbole for a benefit of $4 billion per year, which is nothing.

Agreed.

If they really want to put in place a balanced budget, some of those treasured welfare and SS programs have to go.

Social Security must be reformed. How so? Make it mandatory, and then make it so that it is only used for retirement purposes.

Investigate in alternative methods to fix the problem.

Welfare must be reformed, using effective, and proven social programs. Get rid of the treasured tax breaks that many currently enjoy, get rid of subsidies, get rid of some military spending, and get rid of some other unnecessary, ineffective, duplicate programs.

Reform and simplify the tax code.

Wait. So, what you're saying is, the government should stop doing stuff that doesn't work, and do stuff that does work? Damn, that's genius. Why aren't we funding this? This "reform" stuff is like a goddamn silver bullet.

Partisanship, especially on the Republican side is preventing anything from getting done that we need. The moderate Simpson-Bowles plan I thought was a good start, with some tweaks sounded good.

Besides, there are evidence based programs that work. Instead of demonizing or simply supporting all the programs, support the programs that have successes:

http://evidencebasedprograms.org...
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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5/9/2012 3:31:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 3:21:51 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:13:46 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:09:08 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/8/2012 4:19:43 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
The Buffet Rule is just left-wing "tax the rich" hyperbole for a benefit of $4 billion per year, which is nothing.

Agreed.

If they really want to put in place a balanced budget, some of those treasured welfare and SS programs have to go.

Social Security must be reformed. How so? Make it mandatory, and then make it so that it is only used for retirement purposes.

Investigate in alternative methods to fix the problem.

Welfare must be reformed, using effective, and proven social programs. Get rid of the treasured tax breaks that many currently enjoy, get rid of subsidies, get rid of some military spending, and get rid of some other unnecessary, ineffective, duplicate programs.

Reform and simplify the tax code.

Wait. So, what you're saying is, the government should stop doing stuff that doesn't work, and do stuff that does work? Damn, that's genius. Why aren't we funding this? This "reform" stuff is like a goddamn silver bullet.

Partisanship, especially on the Republican side is preventing anything from getting done that we need. The moderate Simpson-Bowles plan I thought was a good start, with some tweaks sounded good.

Besides, there are evidence based programs that work. Instead of demonizing or simply supporting all the programs, support the programs that have successes:

http://evidencebasedprograms.org...

Given that I'm a) an anarchist, and b) completely uninterested in the management of populations, I'll pass.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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5/9/2012 3:32:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 3:21:51 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:13:46 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:09:08 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/8/2012 4:19:43 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
The Buffet Rule is just left-wing "tax the rich" hyperbole for a benefit of $4 billion per year, which is nothing.

Agreed.

If they really want to put in place a balanced budget, some of those treasured welfare and SS programs have to go.

Social Security must be reformed. How so? Make it mandatory, and then make it so that it is only used for retirement purposes.

Investigate in alternative methods to fix the problem.

Welfare must be reformed, using effective, and proven social programs. Get rid of the treasured tax breaks that many currently enjoy, get rid of subsidies, get rid of some military spending, and get rid of some other unnecessary, ineffective, duplicate programs.

Reform and simplify the tax code.

Wait. So, what you're saying is, the government should stop doing stuff that doesn't work, and do stuff that does work? Damn, that's genius. Why aren't we funding this? This "reform" stuff is like a goddamn silver bullet.

Partisanship, especially on the Republican side is preventing anything from getting done that we need. The moderate Simpson-Bowles plan I thought was a good start, with some tweaks sounded good.

Besides, there are evidence based programs that work. Instead of demonizing or simply supporting all the programs, support the programs that have successes:

http://evidencebasedprograms.org...

You mean like the Ryan Budget that is trying to solve the debt problem.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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5/9/2012 7:26:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 3:32:55 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:21:51 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:13:46 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:09:08 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/8/2012 4:19:43 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
The Buffet Rule is just left-wing "tax the rich" hyperbole for a benefit of $4 billion per year, which is nothing.

Agreed.

If they really want to put in place a balanced budget, some of those treasured welfare and SS programs have to go.

Social Security must be reformed. How so? Make it mandatory, and then make it so that it is only used for retirement purposes.

Investigate in alternative methods to fix the problem.

Welfare must be reformed, using effective, and proven social programs. Get rid of the treasured tax breaks that many currently enjoy, get rid of subsidies, get rid of some military spending, and get rid of some other unnecessary, ineffective, duplicate programs.

Reform and simplify the tax code.

Wait. So, what you're saying is, the government should stop doing stuff that doesn't work, and do stuff that does work? Damn, that's genius. Why aren't we funding this? This "reform" stuff is like a goddamn silver bullet.

Partisanship, especially on the Republican side is preventing anything from getting done that we need. The moderate Simpson-Bowles plan I thought was a good start, with some tweaks sounded good.

Besides, there are evidence based programs that work. Instead of demonizing or simply supporting all the programs, support the programs that have successes:

http://evidencebasedprograms.org...

You mean like the Ryan Budget that is trying to solve the debt problem.

Very funny. The Ryan Budget I doubt fixes the budget with the massive tax cuts it has.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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5/9/2012 7:36:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 7:26:38 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:32:55 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:21:51 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:13:46 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:09:08 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/8/2012 4:19:43 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
The Buffet Rule is just left-wing "tax the rich" hyperbole for a benefit of $4 billion per year, which is nothing.

Agreed.

If they really want to put in place a balanced budget, some of those treasured welfare and SS programs have to go.

Social Security must be reformed. How so? Make it mandatory, and then make it so that it is only used for retirement purposes.

Investigate in alternative methods to fix the problem.

Welfare must be reformed, using effective, and proven social programs. Get rid of the treasured tax breaks that many currently enjoy, get rid of subsidies, get rid of some military spending, and get rid of some other unnecessary, ineffective, duplicate programs.

Reform and simplify the tax code.

Wait. So, what you're saying is, the government should stop doing stuff that doesn't work, and do stuff that does work? Damn, that's genius. Why aren't we funding this? This "reform" stuff is like a goddamn silver bullet.

Partisanship, especially on the Republican side is preventing anything from getting done that we need. The moderate Simpson-Bowles plan I thought was a good start, with some tweaks sounded good.

Besides, there are evidence based programs that work. Instead of demonizing or simply supporting all the programs, support the programs that have successes:

http://evidencebasedprograms.org...

You mean like the Ryan Budget that is trying to solve the debt problem.

Very funny. The Ryan Budget I doubt fixes the budget with the massive tax cuts it has.

Hardly:

http://nextgenjournal.com...

Please point me to the Democrat budget that promises to reduce government debt and the Republicans that aren't supporting it.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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5/9/2012 8:04:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 7:36:13 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 5/9/2012 7:26:38 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:32:55 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:21:51 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:13:46 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:09:08 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/8/2012 4:19:43 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
The Buffet Rule is just left-wing "tax the rich" hyperbole for a benefit of $4 billion per year, which is nothing.

Agreed.

If they really want to put in place a balanced budget, some of those treasured welfare and SS programs have to go.

Social Security must be reformed. How so? Make it mandatory, and then make it so that it is only used for retirement purposes.

Investigate in alternative methods to fix the problem.

Welfare must be reformed, using effective, and proven social programs. Get rid of the treasured tax breaks that many currently enjoy, get rid of subsidies, get rid of some military spending, and get rid of some other unnecessary, ineffective, duplicate programs.

Reform and simplify the tax code.

Wait. So, what you're saying is, the government should stop doing stuff that doesn't work, and do stuff that does work? Damn, that's genius. Why aren't we funding this? This "reform" stuff is like a goddamn silver bullet.

Partisanship, especially on the Republican side is preventing anything from getting done that we need. The moderate Simpson-Bowles plan I thought was a good start, with some tweaks sounded good.

Besides, there are evidence based programs that work. Instead of demonizing or simply supporting all the programs, support the programs that have successes:

http://evidencebasedprograms.org...

You mean like the Ryan Budget that is trying to solve the debt problem.

Very funny. The Ryan Budget I doubt fixes the budget with the massive tax cuts it has.

Hardly:

http://nextgenjournal.com...

Please point me to the Democrat budget that promises to reduce government debt and the Republicans that aren't supporting it.

Wow DK, that graph kind of scares me.

But there IS a Progressive solution!

It's called The People's Budget... To Save the Middle Class

What does it do?

Ultimately it achieves:

• Deficit reduction of $5.6 trillion
• Spending cuts of $1.7 trillion
• Revenue increase of $3.9 trillion
• Public investment $1.7 trillion

It also expands Social Security's life by 75 years, invests in job creation, clean energy and broadband infrastructure, housing and R&D programs, high-speed rail, transportation infrastructure, and in health care reform.

It balances the budget 20 years earlier than the Ryan plan. I agree that some aspects of it I don't like including the investments in housing, and the failure to comprehensive tax reform by simplifying the tax code, and that it continues many subsidies, but overall I believe that it is a strong idea that preserves the legacy of the New Deal.

http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov...

http://epi.3cdn.net...
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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5/9/2012 8:20:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 8:04:51 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/9/2012 7:36:13 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 5/9/2012 7:26:38 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:32:55 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:21:51 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:13:46 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:09:08 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/8/2012 4:19:43 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
The Buffet Rule is just left-wing "tax the rich" hyperbole for a benefit of $4 billion per year, which is nothing.

Agreed.

If they really want to put in place a balanced budget, some of those treasured welfare and SS programs have to go.

Social Security must be reformed. How so? Make it mandatory, and then make it so that it is only used for retirement purposes.

Investigate in alternative methods to fix the problem.

Welfare must be reformed, using effective, and proven social programs. Get rid of the treasured tax breaks that many currently enjoy, get rid of subsidies, get rid of some military spending, and get rid of some other unnecessary, ineffective, duplicate programs.

Reform and simplify the tax code.

Wait. So, what you're saying is, the government should stop doing stuff that doesn't work, and do stuff that does work? Damn, that's genius. Why aren't we funding this? This "reform" stuff is like a goddamn silver bullet.

Partisanship, especially on the Republican side is preventing anything from getting done that we need. The moderate Simpson-Bowles plan I thought was a good start, with some tweaks sounded good.

Besides, there are evidence based programs that work. Instead of demonizing or simply supporting all the programs, support the programs that have successes:

http://evidencebasedprograms.org...

You mean like the Ryan Budget that is trying to solve the debt problem.

Very funny. The Ryan Budget I doubt fixes the budget with the massive tax cuts it has.

Hardly:

http://nextgenjournal.com...

Please point me to the Democrat budget that promises to reduce government debt and the Republicans that aren't supporting it.

Wow DK, that graph kind of scares me.

But there IS a Progressive solution!

It's called The People's Budget... To Save the Middle Class

What does it do?

Ultimately it achieves:

• Deficit reduction of $5.6 trillion
• Spending cuts of $1.7 trillion
• Revenue increase of $3.9 trillion
• Public investment $1.7 trillion

It also expands Social Security's life by 75 years, invests in job creation, clean energy and broadband infrastructure, housing and R&D programs, high-speed rail, transportation infrastructure, and in health care reform.

It balances the budget 20 years earlier than the Ryan plan. I agree that some aspects of it I don't like including the investments in housing, and the failure to comprehensive tax reform by simplifying the tax code, and that it continues many subsidies, but overall I believe that it is a strong idea that preserves the legacy of the New Deal.

http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov...

http://epi.3cdn.net...

Your contention was that the reason we are in a debt crisis is because republicans refuse to compromise.

I doubt that the above bill you showed me is widely supported by Democrats. I also question whether it deals with the real problem of rising medicaid, medicare, and social security costs that are the real liability problems of the future.

http://www.mybudget360.com...

Our budget protects Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid and responsibly eliminates the deficit by targeting its main drivers: the Bush Tax Cuts, the wars overseas, and the causes and effects of the recent recession.


So basically its them doing nothing about these rising costs. The war overseas is hardly the driver. I agree that that Bush Tax cuts are a source of the debt problem, yet even if the bush tax cuts are removed, then your still faced with rising social security, medicare, and medicaid costs. The idea that it would end the problems of the recent recession. I highly doubt that. Obama's stimlus spending was supposed to reduce unemployment. It didn't:

http://michaelscomments.files.wordpress.com...
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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5/9/2012 8:33:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 8:20:34 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 5/9/2012 8:04:51 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/9/2012 7:36:13 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 5/9/2012 7:26:38 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:32:55 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:21:51 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:13:46 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:09:08 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/8/2012 4:19:43 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
The Buffet Rule is just left-wing "tax the rich" hyperbole for a benefit of $4 billion per year, which is nothing.

Agreed.

If they really want to put in place a balanced budget, some of those treasured welfare and SS programs have to go.

Social Security must be reformed. How so? Make it mandatory, and then make it so that it is only used for retirement purposes.

Investigate in alternative methods to fix the problem.

Welfare must be reformed, using effective, and proven social programs. Get rid of the treasured tax breaks that many currently enjoy, get rid of subsidies, get rid of some military spending, and get rid of some other unnecessary, ineffective, duplicate programs.

Reform and simplify the tax code.

Wait. So, what you're saying is, the government should stop doing stuff that doesn't work, and do stuff that does work? Damn, that's genius. Why aren't we funding this? This "reform" stuff is like a goddamn silver bullet.

Partisanship, especially on the Republican side is preventing anything from getting done that we need. The moderate Simpson-Bowles plan I thought was a good start, with some tweaks sounded good.

Besides, there are evidence based programs that work. Instead of demonizing or simply supporting all the programs, support the programs that have successes:

http://evidencebasedprograms.org...

You mean like the Ryan Budget that is trying to solve the debt problem.

Very funny. The Ryan Budget I doubt fixes the budget with the massive tax cuts it has.

Hardly:

http://nextgenjournal.com...

Please point me to the Democrat budget that promises to reduce government debt and the Republicans that aren't supporting it.

Wow DK, that graph kind of scares me.

But there IS a Progressive solution!

It's called The People's Budget... To Save the Middle Class

What does it do?

Ultimately it achieves:

• Deficit reduction of $5.6 trillion
• Spending cuts of $1.7 trillion
• Revenue increase of $3.9 trillion
• Public investment $1.7 trillion

It also expands Social Security's life by 75 years, invests in job creation, clean energy and broadband infrastructure, housing and R&D programs, high-speed rail, transportation infrastructure, and in health care reform.

It balances the budget 20 years earlier than the Ryan plan. I agree that some aspects of it I don't like including the investments in housing, and the failure to comprehensive tax reform by simplifying the tax code, and that it continues many subsidies, but overall I believe that it is a strong idea that preserves the legacy of the New Deal.

http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov...

http://epi.3cdn.net...

Your contention was that the reason we are in a debt crisis is because republicans refuse to compromise.

I doubt that the above bill you showed me is widely supported by Democrats. I also question whether it deals with the real problem of rising medicaid, medicare, and social security costs that are the real liability problems of the future.

http://www.mybudget360.com...

Our budget protects Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid and responsibly eliminates the deficit by targeting its main drivers: the Bush Tax Cuts, the wars overseas, and the causes and effects of the recent recession.


So basically its them doing nothing about these rising costs. The war overseas is hardly the driver. I agree that that Bush Tax cuts are a source of the debt problem, yet even if the bush tax cuts are removed, then your still faced with rising social security, medicare, and medicaid costs. The idea that it would end the problems of the recent recession. I highly doubt that. Obama's stimlus spending was supposed to reduce unemployment. It didn't:

The independent assessment I included showed that it would improve growth of the economy by at least .3% annually, and would reduce health care inflation by 7%.

I agree that the bill does not include many (or enough) spending cuts. About Social Security, it increases the share paid into it by employers and employees that currently don't pay more than the $90,000 level.
http://michaelscomments.files.wordpress.com...
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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5/9/2012 8:42:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 8:33:11 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/9/2012 8:20:34 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 5/9/2012 8:04:51 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/9/2012 7:36:13 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 5/9/2012 7:26:38 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:32:55 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:21:51 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:13:46 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 5/9/2012 3:09:08 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/8/2012 4:19:43 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
The Buffet Rule is just left-wing "tax the rich" hyperbole for a benefit of $4 billion per year, which is nothing.

Agreed.

If they really want to put in place a balanced budget, some of those treasured welfare and SS programs have to go.

Social Security must be reformed. How so? Make it mandatory, and then make it so that it is only used for retirement purposes.

Investigate in alternative methods to fix the problem.

Welfare must be reformed, using effective, and proven social programs. Get rid of the treasured tax breaks that many currently enjoy, get rid of subsidies, get rid of some military spending, and get rid of some other unnecessary, ineffective, duplicate programs.

Reform and simplify the tax code.

Wait. So, what you're saying is, the government should stop doing stuff that doesn't work, and do stuff that does work? Damn, that's genius. Why aren't we funding this? This "reform" stuff is like a goddamn silver bullet.

Partisanship, especially on the Republican side is preventing anything from getting done that we need. The moderate Simpson-Bowles plan I thought was a good start, with some tweaks sounded good.

Besides, there are evidence based programs that work. Instead of demonizing or simply supporting all the programs, support the programs that have successes:

http://evidencebasedprograms.org...

You mean like the Ryan Budget that is trying to solve the debt problem.

Very funny. The Ryan Budget I doubt fixes the budget with the massive tax cuts it has.

Hardly:

http://nextgenjournal.com...

Please point me to the Democrat budget that promises to reduce government debt and the Republicans that aren't supporting it.

Wow DK, that graph kind of scares me.

But there IS a Progressive solution!

It's called The People's Budget... To Save the Middle Class

What does it do?

Ultimately it achieves:

• Deficit reduction of $5.6 trillion
• Spending cuts of $1.7 trillion
• Revenue increase of $3.9 trillion
• Public investment $1.7 trillion

It also expands Social Security's life by 75 years, invests in job creation, clean energy and broadband infrastructure, housing and R&D programs, high-speed rail, transportation infrastructure, and in health care reform.

It balances the budget 20 years earlier than the Ryan plan. I agree that some aspects of it I don't like including the investments in housing, and the failure to comprehensive tax reform by simplifying the tax code, and that it continues many subsidies, but overall I believe that it is a strong idea that preserves the legacy of the New Deal.

http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov...

http://epi.3cdn.net...

Your contention was that the reason we are in a debt crisis is because republicans refuse to compromise.

I doubt that the above bill you showed me is widely supported by Democrats. I also question whether it deals with the real problem of rising medicaid, medicare, and social security costs that are the real liability problems of the future.

http://www.mybudget360.com...

Our budget protects Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid and responsibly eliminates the deficit by targeting its main drivers: the Bush Tax Cuts, the wars overseas, and the causes and effects of the recent recession.


So basically its them doing nothing about these rising costs. The war overseas is hardly the driver. I agree that that Bush Tax cuts are a source of the debt problem, yet even if the bush tax cuts are removed, then your still faced with rising social security, medicare, and medicaid costs. The idea that it would end the problems of the recent recession. I highly doubt that. Obama's stimlus spending was supposed to reduce unemployment. It didn't:

The independent assessment I included showed that it would improve growth of the economy by at least .3% annually, and would reduce health care inflation by 7%.

I have a hard time believing that it would boost healthcare cost by 0.3% annually because government can rarely cause the economy to grow. It can set conditions, such as free markets, but not cause growth.

In terms of reducing health care cost, it says "knock 0.5% off long run project growth", which again I don't know how it would and don't believe it would. Don't know why it said 7% in the paraphrases later on. Perhaps it was referring to short-run.

I agree that the bill does not include many (or enough) spending cuts. About Social Security, it increases the share paid into it by employers and employees that currently don't pay more than the $90,000 level.
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RoyLatham
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5/9/2012 9:11:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 8:04:51 PM, Contra wrote:
But there IS a Progressive solution!

It's called The People's Budget... To Save the Middle Class

It takes some digging to get beyond the claims of miracles to the numbers. There are some fairly modest cuts in defense spending based upon the war in Afghanistan winding down. As far as I know, everyone, both Republicans and Democrats assumes that will happen. Other than that there are new government spending programs fr everything that progressives dream about.

The key is massive tax increases for everyone who pays taxes. The killer is the increase on capital gains taxes, which even President Obama admits will. even at more modest levels, decrease revenues rather than increase revenues. It's a non-starter.