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You Would Describe Obamacare as....

DanT
Posts: 5,693
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5/11/2012 3:57:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/11/2012 3:39:36 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
http://poll.pollcode.com...

There is an issue with the choices. The choices you gave was;
Liberal
Socialist
Conservative
Communist
Anarchist
Fascist
Libertarian

Assuming by liberal you meant social liberal or progressive, there are 3 key issues with the list.

1. Anarchism is left wing libertarianism
2. Communism is a form of socialism
3. Socialism is a form of fascism

One cannot select communism without also selecting socialism, and one cannot select socialism without selecting fascism. Likewise one cannot select anarchism without selecting libertarianism, unless by libertarian you meant classic liberal.

Who in their right mind would believe government run healthcare is anarchist, is anyone's guess.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
1Historygenius
Posts: 1,639
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5/11/2012 3:58:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/11/2012 3:57:02 PM, DanT wrote:
At 5/11/2012 3:39:36 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
http://poll.pollcode.com...

There is an issue with the choices. The choices you gave was;
Liberal
Socialist
Conservative
Communist
Anarchist
Fascist
Libertarian

Assuming by liberal you meant social liberal or progressive, there are 3 key issues with the list.

1. Anarchism is left wing libertarianism
2. Communism is a form of socialism
3. Socialism is a form of fascism

One cannot select communism without also selecting socialism, and one cannot select socialism without selecting fascism. Likewise one cannot select anarchism without selecting libertarianism, unless by libertarian you meant classic liberal.

Who in their right mind would believe government run healthcare is anarchist, is anyone's guess.

Someone thinks its conservative.
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

Latest debate - Reagan was a better President than Obama: http://www.debate.org...
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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5/11/2012 4:01:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/11/2012 3:58:28 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 5/11/2012 3:57:02 PM, DanT wrote:
At 5/11/2012 3:39:36 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
http://poll.pollcode.com...

There is an issue with the choices. The choices you gave was;
Liberal
Socialist
Conservative
Communist
Anarchist
Fascist
Libertarian

Assuming by liberal you meant social liberal or progressive, there are 3 key issues with the list.

1. Anarchism is left wing libertarianism
2. Communism is a form of socialism
3. Socialism is a form of fascism

One cannot select communism without also selecting socialism, and one cannot select socialism without selecting fascism. Likewise one cannot select anarchism without selecting libertarianism, unless by libertarian you meant classic liberal.

Who in their right mind would believe government run healthcare is anarchist, is anyone's guess.

Someone thinks its conservative.

Must be European.
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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5/11/2012 4:06:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/11/2012 4:01:29 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 5/11/2012 3:58:28 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 5/11/2012 3:57:02 PM, DanT wrote:
At 5/11/2012 3:39:36 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
http://poll.pollcode.com...

There is an issue with the choices. The choices you gave was;
Liberal
Socialist
Conservative
Communist
Anarchist
Fascist
Libertarian

Assuming by liberal you meant social liberal or progressive, there are 3 key issues with the list.

1. Anarchism is left wing libertarianism
2. Communism is a form of socialism
3. Socialism is a form of fascism

One cannot select communism without also selecting socialism, and one cannot select socialism without selecting fascism. Likewise one cannot select anarchism without selecting libertarianism, unless by libertarian you meant classic liberal.

Who in their right mind would believe government run healthcare is anarchist, is anyone's guess.

Someone thinks its conservative.

Must be European.

Or a prankster. I heard European conservatives speak very negatively about socialized medicine; the only thing stopping them, is that it's so engrained into their society, that removing it would cause problems, and would be political suicide.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/11/2012 4:10:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/11/2012 3:57:02 PM, DanT wrote:
1. Anarchism is left wing libertarianism
2. Communism is a form of socialism
3. Socialism is a form of fascism

Socialism is not a form of fascism.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
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"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
DanT
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5/11/2012 5:35:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/11/2012 4:10:13 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 5/11/2012 3:57:02 PM, DanT wrote:
1. Anarchism is left wing libertarianism
2. Communism is a form of socialism
3. Socialism is a form of fascism

Socialism is not a form of fascism.

Fascism has two sides;
1.) Nationalism
2.) Socialism
National-Socialists combine both nationalist policies and socialist policies.

Abraham Lincoln was a Nationalist, as was John Quincy Adams, and his father John Adams.

Nationalism can be divided into two main categories
Risorgimento nationalism (a nation wishing to become a state)
Integral nationalism (right wing-collectivist)

When I refer to nationalism, I am using Integral nationalism.

National-socialism aka pure fascism combines integral nationalism, syndicalism, and socialism.

The Fascist manifesto was actually written by a National-syndicalism, and both Hitler, and Mussolini handed control over the means of production to the workers, via national trade unions.

Since socialism is an aspect of fascism, socialism is a form of fascism.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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5/11/2012 7:20:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Definitely conservative.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
DanT
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5/11/2012 8:00:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/11/2012 7:20:51 PM, Contra wrote:
Definitely conservative.

Must be why it passed without a single republican vote.
Healthcare reform, by definition is progressive, not conservative.
Government run healthcare is by definition, socialist.
In a 2009 Gallup poll, 71% of Democrat supported Obamacare, and 79% of Republicans opposed Obamacare.
http://www.gallup.com...
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
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5/11/2012 8:02:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/11/2012 7:54:32 PM, Cobo wrote:
I voted conservative...

either you are a troll, or you don't have a firm grasp of politics.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Cobo
Posts: 556
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5/11/2012 8:03:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/11/2012 8:02:34 PM, DanT wrote:
At 5/11/2012 7:54:32 PM, Cobo wrote:
I voted conservative...

either you are a troll, or you don't have a firm grasp of politics.

How could it not be conservative?
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1Historygenius
Posts: 1,639
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5/11/2012 8:06:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/11/2012 8:02:34 PM, DanT wrote:
At 5/11/2012 7:54:32 PM, Cobo wrote:
I voted conservative...

either you are a troll, or you don't have a firm grasp of politics.

Agreed. Its Healthcare reform, isn't reform liberal?
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

Latest debate - Reagan was a better President than Obama: http://www.debate.org...
Contra
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5/11/2012 8:07:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/11/2012 8:00:45 PM, DanT wrote:
At 5/11/2012 7:20:51 PM, Contra wrote:
Definitely conservative.

Must be why it passed without a single republican vote.
Healthcare reform, by definition is progressive, not conservative.
Government run healthcare is by definition, socialist.
In a 2009 Gallup poll, 71% of Democrat supported Obamacare, and 79% of Republicans opposed Obamacare.
http://www.gallup.com...

Your beloved Heritage Foundation, and the Conservatives in Congress in the 1990s advocated for a individual mandate, based off the Netherlands' Health care system, private insurance with individual health care mandates.

They (Conservative GOPers) advocated for this type of system until it became politically toxic in the conservative/ crazy sphere. That is why Mitt Romney based the individual mandate in Massachusetts, it was a conservative idea (and still is, but is hated by conservatives).

http://www.forbes.com...

Single-Payer is not government-run insurance. They pay for it, but the employment, training, and decisions of medical issues are not made by the government.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
1Historygenius
Posts: 1,639
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5/12/2012 10:25:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/11/2012 8:07:59 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/11/2012 8:00:45 PM, DanT wrote:
At 5/11/2012 7:20:51 PM, Contra wrote:
Definitely conservative.

Must be why it passed without a single republican vote.
Healthcare reform, by definition is progressive, not conservative.
Government run healthcare is by definition, socialist.
In a 2009 Gallup poll, 71% of Democrat supported Obamacare, and 79% of Republicans opposed Obamacare.
http://www.gallup.com...

Your beloved Heritage Foundation, and the Conservatives in Congress in the 1990s advocated for a individual mandate, based off the Netherlands' Health care system, private insurance with individual health care mandates.

They (Conservative GOPers) advocated for this type of system until it became politically toxic in the conservative/ crazy sphere. That is why Mitt Romney based the individual mandate in Massachusetts, it was a conservative idea (and still is, but is hated by conservatives).

http://www.forbes.com...

Single-Payer is not government-run insurance. They pay for it, but the employment, training, and decisions of medical issues are not made by the government.

Just because Conservatives vote for it does not mean its Liberal.
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

Latest debate - Reagan was a better President than Obama: http://www.debate.org...
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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5/12/2012 10:39:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/12/2012 10:25:55 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 5/11/2012 8:07:59 PM, Contra wrote:
At 5/11/2012 8:00:45 PM, DanT wrote:
At 5/11/2012 7:20:51 PM, Contra wrote:
Definitely conservative.

Must be why it passed without a single republican vote.
Healthcare reform, by definition is progressive, not conservative.
Government run healthcare is by definition, socialist.
In a 2009 Gallup poll, 71% of Democrat supported Obamacare, and 79% of Republicans opposed Obamacare.
http://www.gallup.com...

Your beloved Heritage Foundation, and the Conservatives in Congress in the 1990s advocated for a individual mandate, based off the Netherlands' Health care system, private insurance with individual health care mandates.

They (Conservative GOPers) advocated for this type of system until it became politically toxic in the conservative/ crazy sphere. That is why Mitt Romney based the individual mandate in Massachusetts, it was a conservative idea (and still is, but is hated by conservatives).

http://www.forbes.com...

Single-Payer is not government-run insurance. They pay for it, but the employment, training, and decisions of medical issues are not made by the government.

Just because Conservatives vote for it does not mean its Liberal.

This... Most people do not agree with their labeled ideology on every issue.
Just because some conservatives agree with it, does not make it conservative.

Furthermore, if the tax payer is paying for it, than its not conservative medicine.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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5/12/2012 10:41:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/11/2012 8:06:29 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 5/11/2012 8:02:34 PM, DanT wrote:
At 5/11/2012 7:54:32 PM, Cobo wrote:
I voted conservative...

either you are a troll, or you don't have a firm grasp of politics.

Agreed. Its Healthcare reform, isn't reform liberal?

thats why i chose liberal
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Contra
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5/13/2012 11:50:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/12/2012 10:41:43 PM, imabench wrote:
At 5/11/2012 8:06:29 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 5/11/2012 8:02:34 PM, DanT wrote:
At 5/11/2012 7:54:32 PM, Cobo wrote:
I voted conservative...

either you are a troll, or you don't have a firm grasp of politics.

Agreed. Its Healthcare reform, isn't reform liberal?

thats why i chose liberal

oh come on, "Obamacare" was a conservative/ former right-wing idea that was a sell out.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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5/13/2012 1:13:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Fascist.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Ameriman
Posts: 622
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5/13/2012 10:58:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/13/2012 11:50:15 AM, Contra wrote:
At 5/12/2012 10:41:43 PM, imabench wrote:
At 5/11/2012 8:06:29 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 5/11/2012 8:02:34 PM, DanT wrote:
At 5/11/2012 7:54:32 PM, Cobo wrote:
I voted conservative...

either you are a troll, or you don't have a firm grasp of politics.

Agreed. Its Healthcare reform, isn't reform liberal?

thats why i chose liberal

oh come on, "Obamacare" was a conservative/ former right-wing idea that was a sell out.

No, conservatives would never endorse a massive expansion of Medicaid, tax increases, and an employer mandate...
We spend too much our time measuring compassion for those in needs by measuring inputs. How much money are we spending? How many programs are we creating? But we are not focusing on outcomes. Are these programs working? Are people getting out of poverty?
-Paul Ryan