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Unemployment rate and population regments

DanT
Posts: 5,693
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5/27/2012 8:19:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl claims that since the black population has a higher unemployment rate than the white population, that being black deceases your chances of getting a job.

Ragnar_Rahl also claims that if 90% of graduates from your law school became lawyers, than you have a 90% chance of becoming a lawyer by going to that law school.

I on the other hand believe that higher unemployment rate of the black population does not mean being black decreases your chances of employment, but rather it shows that blacks have more unqualified people within their community; such as drop outs. A middle class suburban black kid would be more likely to succeed than a poor black kid from the projects.

I also believe that the school is not what determines their likelihood to become a lawyer, but rather their qualifications compared to other people who apply.

Who do you think is right?
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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5/27/2012 8:32:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 8:19:11 PM, DanT wrote:
Ragnar_Rahl claims that since the black population has a higher unemployment rate than the white population, that being black deceases your chances of getting a job.

Ragnar_Rahl also claims that if 90% of graduates from your law school became lawyers, than you have a 90% chance of becoming a lawyer by going to that law school.

I on the other hand believe that higher unemployment rate of the black population does not mean being black decreases your chances of employment, but rather it shows that blacks have more unqualified people within their community; such as drop outs. A middle class suburban black kid would be more likely to succeed than a poor black kid from the projects.

I also believe that the school is not what determines their likelihood to become a lawyer, but rather their qualifications compared to other people who apply.




Who do you think is right?

I think you are right.

On his [Ragnar_Rahl] first claim, he is either citing massive (because the black unemployment rate is at least 15% higher than the white) racism in hiring (which is untrue due to those dumb minority hire "quotas"), or he is either being blatantly racist. The ability to get a job in this age does not rest on race (unless you are citing race quotas), but from qualification.

On his second claim, he is making an assumption. He is assuming that you have the exact same qualifications that the 90% that got hired had. In today's job market, the amount of education is not the only qualification, but also includes but are not excluded to social skills, ability to handle crises, and ability to handle leadership and jobs.

So you are obviously right on both claims.
Ameriman
Posts: 622
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5/27/2012 8:34:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Education, not more government programs or regulations, are the key to closing the black white employment and income gaps.
We spend too much our time measuring compassion for those in needs by measuring inputs. How much money are we spending? How many programs are we creating? But we are not focusing on outcomes. Are these programs working? Are people getting out of poverty?
-Paul Ryan
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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5/27/2012 8:35:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I agree with you on the first point in the sense that if you are black, there is no more explicit discrimination in the work force. Nobody denies you a job and gives you lower pay simply because you are black. To bring this up is completely absurd and devoid from any facts. The only other conclusion is that blacks are less qualified, which can be empirically demonstrated through their overall lack of human capital. Again, that is not to say that there are no successful black people, because there are.

On the second point, I would have to disagree with you to an extent. When we are discussing lower-middle tier colleges, this might be true because the name of the college does not hold as much water when discussing employment issues. However, when somebody sees "Harvard" or "Yale" on your college diploma, it is pretty much assured that regardless of your skill level, you have an exponentially greater chance at being employed at a better firm or of becoming a specific profession.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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5/27/2012 8:35:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 8:34:51 PM, Ameriman wrote:
Education, not more government programs or regulations, are the key to closing the black white employment and income gaps.

+1, but don't forget experience and will.
Ameriman
Posts: 622
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5/27/2012 8:39:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 8:35:50 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 5/27/2012 8:34:51 PM, Ameriman wrote:
Education, not more government programs or regulations, are the key to closing the black white employment and income gaps.

+1, but don't forget experience and will.

Yes, I would agree.
We spend too much our time measuring compassion for those in needs by measuring inputs. How much money are we spending? How many programs are we creating? But we are not focusing on outcomes. Are these programs working? Are people getting out of poverty?
-Paul Ryan
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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5/27/2012 8:42:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I would say one problem with the black/white gap is the black communities mentality.

I've been to New Orleans, and I will tell you, they are far from midwestern standards.

The men abandon their girlfriends when they get pregant to their "homies", work ethic is terrible, and many people are just plain lazy.

No, I'm not saying black people are inherently like this, I found many of the older men to be very good when it came to work ethic. Unsupriseingly enough, those were the married ones as well.

It's just the mentality.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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Ameriman
Posts: 622
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5/27/2012 8:44:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 8:42:54 PM, OberHerr wrote:
I would say one problem with the black/white gap is the black communities mentality.

I've been to New Orleans, and I will tell you, they are far from midwestern standards.

The men abandon their girlfriends when they get pregant to their "homies", work ethic is terrible, and many people are just plain lazy.

No, I'm not saying black people are inherently like this, I found many of the older men to be very good when it came to work ethic. Unsupriseingly enough, those were the married ones as well.

It's just the mentality.

I think mentality is a big part of it. However, I would not say that this is inherent.

Instead, I would place a lot of blame with welfare programs that were created by white liberal politicians.
We spend too much our time measuring compassion for those in needs by measuring inputs. How much money are we spending? How many programs are we creating? But we are not focusing on outcomes. Are these programs working? Are people getting out of poverty?
-Paul Ryan
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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5/27/2012 8:47:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 8:44:21 PM, Ameriman wrote:
At 5/27/2012 8:42:54 PM, OberHerr wrote:
I would say one problem with the black/white gap is the black communities mentality.

I've been to New Orleans, and I will tell you, they are far from midwestern standards.

The men abandon their girlfriends when they get pregant to their "homies", work ethic is terrible, and many people are just plain lazy.

No, I'm not saying black people are inherently like this, I found many of the older men to be very good when it came to work ethic. Unsupriseingly enough, those were the married ones as well.

It's just the mentality.


I think mentality is a big part of it. However, I would not say that this is inherent.

Instead, I would place a lot of blame with welfare programs that were created by white liberal politicians.

Man, another +1. This warrants a friend request!
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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5/27/2012 8:47:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 8:44:21 PM, Ameriman wrote:
At 5/27/2012 8:42:54 PM, OberHerr wrote:
I would say one problem with the black/white gap is the black communities mentality.

I've been to New Orleans, and I will tell you, they are far from midwestern standards.

The men abandon their girlfriends when they get pregant to their "homies", work ethic is terrible, and many people are just plain lazy.

No, I'm not saying black people are inherently like this, I found many of the older men to be very good when it came to work ethic. Unsupriseingly enough, those were the married ones as well.

It's just the mentality.


I think mentality is a big part of it. However, I would not say that this is inherent.


Yea, I really wanna push that I do not see it as inherent.

Instead, I would place a lot of blame with welfare programs that were created by white liberal politicians.

Agreed.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Ameriman
Posts: 622
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5/27/2012 8:49:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 8:47:34 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 5/27/2012 8:44:21 PM, Ameriman wrote:
At 5/27/2012 8:42:54 PM, OberHerr wrote:
I would say one problem with the black/white gap is the black communities mentality.

I've been to New Orleans, and I will tell you, they are far from midwestern standards.

The men abandon their girlfriends when they get pregant to their "homies", work ethic is terrible, and many people are just plain lazy.

No, I'm not saying black people are inherently like this, I found many of the older men to be very good when it came to work ethic. Unsupriseingly enough, those were the married ones as well.

It's just the mentality.


I think mentality is a big part of it. However, I would not say that this is inherent.

Instead, I would place a lot of blame with welfare programs that were created by white liberal politicians.

Man, another +1. This warrants a friend request!

That warrants an accept, haha.
We spend too much our time measuring compassion for those in needs by measuring inputs. How much money are we spending? How many programs are we creating? But we are not focusing on outcomes. Are these programs working? Are people getting out of poverty?
-Paul Ryan
Ameriman
Posts: 622
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5/27/2012 8:50:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 8:47:49 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 5/27/2012 8:44:21 PM, Ameriman wrote:
At 5/27/2012 8:42:54 PM, OberHerr wrote:
I would say one problem with the black/white gap is the black communities mentality.

I've been to New Orleans, and I will tell you, they are far from midwestern standards.

The men abandon their girlfriends when they get pregant to their "homies", work ethic is terrible, and many people are just plain lazy.

No, I'm not saying black people are inherently like this, I found many of the older men to be very good when it came to work ethic. Unsupriseingly enough, those were the married ones as well.

It's just the mentality.


I think mentality is a big part of it. However, I would not say that this is inherent.


Yea, I really wanna push that I do not see it as inherent.

Instead, I would place a lot of blame with welfare programs that were created by white liberal politicians.

Agreed.

Ya, you even said that in your original comment.

I was just adding my personal view on the matter.
We spend too much our time measuring compassion for those in needs by measuring inputs. How much money are we spending? How many programs are we creating? But we are not focusing on outcomes. Are these programs working? Are people getting out of poverty?
-Paul Ryan
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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5/27/2012 8:51:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 8:32:30 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 5/27/2012 8:19:11 PM, DanT wrote:
Ragnar_Rahl claims that since the black population has a higher unemployment rate than the white population, that being black deceases your chances of getting a job.

Ragnar_Rahl also claims that if 90% of graduates from your law school became lawyers, than you have a 90% chance of becoming a lawyer by going to that law school.

I on the other hand believe that higher unemployment rate of the black population does not mean being black decreases your chances of employment, but rather it shows that blacks have more unqualified people within their community; such as drop outs. A middle class suburban black kid would be more likely to succeed than a poor black kid from the projects.

I also believe that the school is not what determines their likelihood to become a lawyer, but rather their qualifications compared to other people who apply.




Who do you think is right?

I think you are right.

On his [Ragnar_Rahl] first claim, he is either citing massive (because the black unemployment rate is at least 15% higher than the white) racism in hiring (which is untrue due to those dumb minority hire "quotas"), or he is either being blatantly racist. The ability to get a job in this age does not rest on race (unless you are citing race quotas), but from qualification.

On his second claim, he is making an assumption. He is assuming that you have the exact same qualifications that the 90% that got hired had. In today's job market, the amount of education is not the only qualification, but also includes but are not excluded to social skills, ability to handle crises, and ability to handle leadership and jobs.

So you are obviously right on both claims.

I agree on the first account that it isn't race that determines. Rather environmental and social impacts.

On the second account, you have to allow for the possibility that if one school places more students, they may have better contacts or a better educational program. It doesn't guarantee that you have the same chance, but there certainly could be underlying factors that could give you an advantage.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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5/27/2012 8:57:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 8:51:35 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 5/27/2012 8:32:30 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 5/27/2012 8:19:11 PM, DanT wrote:
Ragnar_Rahl claims that since the black population has a higher unemployment rate than the white population, that being black deceases your chances of getting a job.

Ragnar_Rahl also claims that if 90% of graduates from your law school became lawyers, than you have a 90% chance of becoming a lawyer by going to that law school.

I on the other hand believe that higher unemployment rate of the black population does not mean being black decreases your chances of employment, but rather it shows that blacks have more unqualified people within their community; such as drop outs. A middle class suburban black kid would be more likely to succeed than a poor black kid from the projects.

I also believe that the school is not what determines their likelihood to become a lawyer, but rather their qualifications compared to other people who apply.




Who do you think is right?

I think you are right.

On his [Ragnar_Rahl] first claim, he is either citing massive (because the black unemployment rate is at least 15% higher than the white) racism in hiring (which is untrue due to those dumb minority hire "quotas"), or he is either being blatantly racist. The ability to get a job in this age does not rest on race (unless you are citing race quotas), but from qualification.

On his second claim, he is making an assumption. He is assuming that you have the exact same qualifications that the 90% that got hired had. In today's job market, the amount of education is not the only qualification, but also includes but are not excluded to social skills, ability to handle crises, and ability to handle leadership and jobs.

So you are obviously right on both claims.

I agree on the first account that it isn't race that determines. Rather environmental and social impacts.

+1.
On the second account, you have to allow for the possibility that if one school places more students, they may have better contacts or a better educational program. It doesn't guarantee that you have the same chance, but there certainly could be underlying factors that could give you an advantage.
You make a good point. If you go to a better school, you'll have a greater chance of landing a job. But you can not exclude social skills, ability, and will. I mean I've known a few people that spent 15 years in school, knew everything about the field they were in, and yet, they could never get a job while their lower-educated peers were? Why? They had no ability to interact with others and no capability to lead or to resolve crises.
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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5/27/2012 9:52:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 8:57:21 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
You make a good point. If you go to a better school, you'll have a greater chance of landing a job. But you can not exclude social skills, ability, and will. I mean I've known a few people that spent 15 years in school, knew everything about the field they were in, and yet, they could never get a job while their lower-educated peers were? Why? They had no ability to interact with others and no capability to lead or to resolve crises.

I don't. That's why I said 'could' have an impact. I used to think that will, hard work, etc was all that mattered, but I also see that environment plays a key role.

For instance, the lifestyle at the turkey farms in Utah. These kids are born into their families in the family trailer. None of them I've ever met had any aspirations beyond saving up for a mustang. I'm not saying they are all that way, but the mini-culture is a definite influence.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
cbrhawk1
Posts: 588
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5/28/2012 9:38:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I really don't understand these petty race issues, and I'm tired of hearing about them.

Blacks make up a large part of the southern population. In the South, unemployment has hit real hard. Blacks also make up high percentages of urban populations. Again, urban populations are also hit hard by unemployment .

Blacks and whites live different lives. The unemployment rate is not due to discrimination. Get over it. We're not all the same. The point of the fight against racism isn't to say that all people are the same, so why do we continue to use these figures?

It's silly logic and these things are brought up by politicians who focus their efforts on a small group of people, alienating the population into these groups so that we won't come to a rational collective decision.
"All science is 'wrong.'" ~ drafterman
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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5/28/2012 12:35:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 8:19:11 PM, DanT wrote:
Ragnar_Rahl claims that since the black population has a higher unemployment rate than the white population, that being black deceases your chances of getting a job.

Ragnar_Rahl also claims that if 90% of graduates from your law school became lawyers, than you have a 90% chance of becoming a lawyer by going to that law school.

I on the other hand believe that higher unemployment rate of the black population does not mean being black decreases your chances of employment, but rather it shows that blacks have more unqualified people within their community; such as drop outs. A middle class suburban black kid would be more likely to succeed than a poor black kid from the projects.

I also believe that the school is not what determines their likelihood to become a lawyer, but rather their qualifications compared to other people who apply.




Who do you think is right?

According to what's written above your position is correct. Of course I have to assume that you represented Ragnar_Rahl's position accurately, that is a big assumption. Righties always make it sound like lefties believe that the color of ones skin directly impacts ones opportunity to succeed, when most lefties are simply pointing to the fact that there is a distinct correlation between the successes of both races. Such a distinct correlation is not so simple to explain away as "whites work hard, blacks are lazy", as many righties love to believe.